Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion

Those VAR-scandals will keep going until referees and those in charge for VAR are forced to talk about decisions after game. Live on tv. By rules that is. But, as long as TheFA are happy it will never come. Stubborn and thinking they can't never ever be wrong.

Problem is that they are pushing people out of football. I can't even count how many people have walked away from the sport. It is worrying and sad. They have already priced out working class. Now with VAR they are taking away passion from people. Soon they will ask themself why there are only sponsors sitting in the stands. And still they would never admit any error.
 
I thought they didn’t rely on tv angles?

The angles don't matter insofar as the 3D imaging lets them draw accurate lines from whatever angle they have without the given angle distorting anything. But they still need to be able to see certain body points in a given angle, apparently.
 
Give each coach a couple of appeals per game. If he uses it, the ref goes over and has a look at all the video angles of the incident.

No VAR, no idiots in a van watching things they don't understand or drawing stupid lines across a screen.

It puts the responsibility back in the hands of the refs and removes this bullshit dynamic between two different parties who just end up getting in each other's way.

It also means decisions are made based on the same video we all see. Decisions based on common sense.
 
The only thing VAR has done since its been implemented is highlight the sheer incompetence of the referees in the PL. it’s a disgrace. Almost laughable if it wasn’t completely ruining the game we all know and love.
 
Carragher was right yesterday (vomit) when he said we've lost level. It doesn't exist now. The wind can blow 4 millimetres of a shirt's sleeve offside and that's a goal ruled out.
 
Thing is, they already have plans to address the offside issues, and they are addressable, so I wouldn't be overly concerned in that regard. In a few years' time it will definitely be much better than it is now. Hell, with a few tweaks to how VAR works they could start making it better immediately if they were of a mind to do so.

The real problem is subjective calls like the McTominay foul yesterday and all the fecking about with "clear and obvious", where I have no idea how you fix it. In the long run that's way more of a problem.
 
I agree with you.

I also think it’s strange it’s taken from when the boot hits the ball as if you imagine a ronaldhino style hold the ball on the foot and spin and flick it off as a pass the offside would be from when he first traps the ball and not when he releases the ball for the pass. It doesn’t seem right. (That’s if I’m right about when offside is taken)

You are quite right. I have checked rule 11 and it qualifies that it is to be from when the player strikes the ball.
To be honest, the officials would have to have eyes like to chameleon to be able to both see the boot hitting the ball at the same time they are looking for the other player to be in an offside position.
Now. That is where VAR actually helps.
Nevertheless, the spirit of the rule was never intended to come down to millimetres, or ultimately pixels.
 
So that's your margin of error. 16cm (if that's correct). Easy.

It's probably not all that difficult for the system to track the players' speed and calculate it in real time.

I mean, it's obviously incredibly difficult otherwise why would they persist with the arbitrary line drawing?
 
So that's your margin of error. 16cm (if that's correct). Easy.

It's probably not all that difficult for the system to track the players' speed and calculate it in real time.




That's why i think those things should be seen in real time only. If the ref can't spot it without freeze frames and slow motion, its not clear and obvious.
:lol: :lol:
 
Thing is, they already have plans to address the offside issues, and they are addressable, so I wouldn't be overly concerned in that regard. In a few years' time it will definitely be much better than it is now. Hell, with a few tweaks to how VAR works they could start making it better immediately if they were of a mind to do so.

The real problem is subjective calls like the McTominay foul yesterday and all the fecking about with "clear and obvious", where I have no idea how you fix it. In the long run that's way more of a problem.

It’s easily fixed. Don’t use VAR.

Then start using it for offsides only and only if/when they’ve improved it to a point that means we will never again endure agonisingly prolonged deliberations about how close armpits are to the goal line.
 
Yeah, feck off VAR.

Like Jose Mourinho, it's benefitting from not having fans in the stadiums.
 
I mean, it's obviously incredibly difficult otherwise why would they persist with the arbitrary line drawing?

Same reason they use 50 fps cameras. It's a poor implementation. I work with AI, the technology to identify and track people on camera is not exactly rocket science.
 
Same reason they use 50 fps cameras. It's a poor implementation. I work with AI, the technology to identify and track people on camera is not exactly rocket science.

Tracking people on camera isn't even the issue here - it's doing so at a high enough resolution that conclusions can actually be objective. Right now, VAR purports to be binarily correct for offsides and that's laughable. It's prohibitively expensive and completely unrealistic to propose that every stadium has sufficiently high enough FPS cameras installed - all to "objectively" interpret a law that was implemented to stop goalmouth poaching.
 
So basically the ref against spurs got it right first time then the VAR got him to doubt himself and change his mind.

I think the refs are shit scared. Doesn't help with Dermot Gallagher saying it was the right decision a day later.

All the VAR does is feck things up.
That’s it. By VAR stepping in and saying to the ref you should maybe go and have a look at this, what is that implying to the ref? It’s only natural for the ref to think he’s made a mistake. What did VAR actually say to the on field ref for our disallowed goal yesterday? We’ll never know and that’s simply not satisfactory in a multi billion pound industry. If we could hear the dialogue between the ref and VAR as to what they are considering and why they come up with the decision as a team of officials (aka rugby union), that would be so much more satisfying for supporters in my mind.
 
If you judge it by the level that it really should be at, it has been an absolute shambles.

How can players and fans almost universally think that Son was not fouled, yet the referee and VAR operators call it the way they did.

It beggars belief.
 
posted this before...

That's how it could work but Riley is an idiot and the officials are useless.



This is amazing, but it only works because both the ref and the VAR ref are competent.

Imagine our feckin idiots trying to do this. Blabbering on like twats, umming and ahhing. "I'm not sure" "pull it back another 30 secs" "show me from another 16 angles".
 
This is amazing, but it only works because both the ref and the VAR ref are competent.

Imagine our feckin idiots trying to do this. Blabbering on like twats, umming and ahhing. "I'm not sure" "pull it back another 30 secs" "show me from another 16 angles".
This is true. Both officials in that clip demonstrate basic mental ability which is far too much for us to expect from the PL officials.

It would probably just be an embarrassing Basil Fawlty-esque display from our lot.
 
This is amazing, but it only works because both the ref and the VAR ref are competent.

Imagine our feckin idiots trying to do this. Blabbering on like twats, umming and ahhing. "I'm not sure" "pull it back another 30 secs" "show me from another 16 angles".
This is true. Both officials in that clip demonstrate basic mental ability which is far too much for us to expect from the PL officials.

It would probably just be an embarrassing Basil Fawlty-esque display from our lot.

I genuinely don't understand why referees are against transparency - this clip was hugely informative and makes all the officials involved look better if you ask me (starts 45 seconds in):

 
I genuinely don't understand why referees are against transparency - this clip was hugely informative and makes all the officials involved look better if you ask me (starts 45 seconds in):



Even there the referee sounds super panicky. Doesn't sound half as calm and collected as the one in the other clip. Then ever VAR and that seem to be shouting over each other :lol: it's better than nothing but that's still chaos compared to the Australian ref.
 
Even there the referee sounds super panicky. Doesn't sound half as calm and collected as the one in the other clip. Then ever VAR and that seem to be shouting over each other :lol: it's better than nothing but that's still chaos compared to the Australian ref.

Sure, though to be fair this was before pitchside monitors were a thing and he's mid sprint from one end to the other of the pitch. I think the confusion stems from the feeds overlapping - after the incident the assistant is talking to Fabregas and that makes it look more like they're talking over each other.
 
Sure, though to be fair this was before pitchside monitors were a thing and he's mid sprint from one end to the other of the pitch. I think the confusion stems from the feeds overlapping - after the incident the assistant is talking to Fabregas and that makes it look more like they're talking over each other.

Yeah I had to watch it 2 or 3 times to figure out who was talking to who :lol:

Players don't help any situation by being gobshites.
 
100%! Cracking down on surrounding the referee is a separate issue but one I'm entirely in favour of.
Absolutely this. Or genetically clone Collina so that all refs can put down the players with a stare that penetrates their souls
 
That was for the prem game yesterday
But what I mean is the lines arent used, its just for visual representation for the viewer if I remember correctly. Its why drawing lines across the tv criticism never made sense because the lines themselves arent important.
 
The WBA decision is utterly more ridiculous than the decision against us. why the feck did the linesman raise his flag if he is not sure? Let VAR decide it. As another OP said, the wind is going to blow a shirt mms offside and the goal to be ruled out? The FIFA should be sued for scamming millions of people.
 
VAR is the worst thing that happened to football.

Prior to VAR, some decisions went against you, some went in your favor, at the end of the day it evens itself out.

With VAR it is basically the same thing, nothing is conclusive or certain and like before VAR, everything depends on the daftness level of the ref.

VAR is shit. All it did was giving the refs more unnecessary power and increasing the shitshow level tenfold.
I agree completely. I think it is actually ruining our game all the way from the domestic league right through the European competitions. My biggest problem is that players used to try and game the system and dived, but you were dependent on a ref seeing that minimal contact, so a player had to decide if there was enough to fool someone standing 5 meters away in a split second, so they actually chose to stay on their feet from time to time. But now they are coached to go down with every bootlace that brushes against their shin-pad as a super slow motion picture shows fiber transfer between each players shorts!
(VAR is like my reply. Slow, hard to sit through, needless and could have been done way better.)
 
Whatever happened to clear and obvious?
Was never a fan of the introduction of var but could see the benefits on clear and obvious decisions. The way var has been implemented in this country (along with all the cheating and play acting) has sucked all the enjoyment out of the Premier league for me.
 
I've had a lot of thought about the state of VAR these few days. I've also been bingeing on old highlights of 90s Prem, incidentally. Good times.

I supported having VAR before it was implemented for a major reason: I wanted diving and playacting to be punished. If the refs can see what we see on televisions, then surely cheats can be punished?

Instead, with the Son incident, what we've seen is the complete opposite.

feck off VAR.
 
The problems have nothing to do with VAR as tech and theory, and everything to do with refs interpretation of the rules. All can improve with proper training and increased quality control. However, the stance from FA and PGMOL that refs cannot be criticised or commented does not help. They do not want transparency and improvement. They want immunity and that is what's blocking progress here.
 
He saw Rashford get an arm to the chin 5 minutes before and waved it away

I can guarantee the ref never saw it or he would've gave it. And the reason VAR never intervened was because it was outside the box. Stupid as it may be but that's why.

How come so many neutral people disagree with you. Don’t be such a blinkered idiot. He’s barely touched him and he’s gone down like he’s been shot. Can you hand on heart say that’s what you enjoy watching, or that’s how the sport should play. I’d expect better from any football fan out there that thinks that should be a foul. Maybe people just haven’t played the game themselves.

Because people have and are entitled to have opinions? Crazy, right? No, I don't enjoy watching it, Son 100% exaggerated the contact. The difference is I don't take that into account when deciding whether or not I think it was a foul because it's irrelevant as to whether or not the action from McTominay was indeed a foul. Are you denying he hit him in the face? Talk about being blinkered. I won't call you an idiot, though, cause unlike some, I accept that you're entitled to an opposing view without being insulted for it.

You're having a mare this evening. The mask is slipping too much.

Log off.

What mask? Pointing out how hypocritical some people are being?

A mare = pointing out that Son was indeed hit in the face by a stray arm and that when referees sees this they do tend to give fouls. Pointing out way worse VAR decisions in the past that have gone your way in the face of people saying this incident was the straw that broke the camel's back for their enjoyment and continued watching of football. Who knew that's what constituted as a mare?

:lol:

Let's consult some more neutral folk than you... like actual fecking Spurs fans on the Fighting Cock:

Okay? Now post the Spurs fans that think it was a foul. Now post non Spurs fans that think it was a foul. Go on, do it.

Yeh, I was furious tbh but not because I didn't think it was necessarily a foul, its the inconsistency. We saw 2 very similar incidents prior to it that were not deemed fouls. Pogba on [Spurs player] and the one on Rashford.

The problem with the Rashford one was that it was just outside the box. Had it been a foot further up the pitch then VAR would definitely have intervened. Forearm smash someone outside a painted line? Nothing. Forearm smash someone inside a painted line? Take action. Such a stupid rule.

You're in about as an extreme minority as a person can be in a football discussion. Pretty much every pundit, ex player, even rival fans are in agreement on it. To call it a 'blatant standard foul' is such a strange stance to take.

Why is "strange" to claim it standard? When referees see someone throw their arm back to block off an opposing player and it smacks them in the face they tend to give free kicks. It's so standard in fact that two different referees both watched it happen and came to the same conclusion that it was indeed a foul...

Son's doing his best to foul McTominay, the only reason the incident occurred was because Son initiated the action by attempting to foul McTominay. It was a crazy decision because it's completely devoid of logic. If 99% of the world is saying it's a bad call then maybe it's a bad call?

All irrelevant. Doesn't matter why McTominay threw his arm back. Fact is he did and it made contact with an opposing player's face. Foul. Two different referees watched it and came to the same conclusion.