I think there rule with this is that you can only visit cards that warrant a red card but if you don't deem it worthy of a red you have out the yellow. This was being looked at for a foul leading up to a goal nothing more and nothing less so yellow was never an option. But who gives both were rubbish calls..
Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion
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It was just embarrassing to be honest. The dads didn’t mind, we were getting hammered so it was useful to slow a couple of them down. I’m a decent player, or I was once upon a time, but I’m fairly gangly. I use my arms a lot a bit like Pogba but with far less poise and grace. Just awkward angles.Jesus. Carnage. I’d say that went down well!
VAR - brought in to get cheaters out of football. Result - makes it more important than ever to drop dead every time you feel the slightest touch, so VAR will check, double-check, and triple-check the situation until you get the right slowmo - one frame, that shows that you were assaulted.
We saw it with Son today. We've seen it before as well. And when Lindelöf actually got assaulted and blinded, we got nothing, because Lindelöf wasn't trying to cheat. Same with the incident against Sheffield United, were DDG should have dropped dead, instead of waiting for VAR to fix the error made by the ref.
We saw it with Son today. We've seen it before as well. And when Lindelöf actually got assaulted and blinded, we got nothing, because Lindelöf wasn't trying to cheat. Same with the incident against Sheffield United, were DDG should have dropped dead, instead of waiting for VAR to fix the error made by the ref.
No they were allowed to look at it because they were disallowing a goal because of it.
Son's doing his best to foul McTominay, the only reason the incident occurred was because Son initiated the action by attempting to foul McTominay. It was a crazy decision because it's completely devoid of logic. If 99% of the world is saying it's a bad call then maybe it's a bad call?
Where is the consistency?
No goal.
Perfectly fine goal?
They haven't a clue what they're doing. There is a new set of rules for every match.
You add Maguire's disallowed goal vs Burnley and West Brom (was it West Brom where ref blew whistle before consulting VAR), it's just hilarious.
VAR is the worst thing that happened to football.
Prior to VAR, some decisions went against you, some went in your favor, at the end of the day it evens itself out.
With VAR it is basically the same thing, nothing is conclusive or certain and like before VAR, everything depends on the daftness level of the ref.
VAR is shit. All it did was giving the refs more unnecessary power and increasing the shitshow level tenfold.
Prior to VAR, some decisions went against you, some went in your favor, at the end of the day it evens itself out.
With VAR it is basically the same thing, nothing is conclusive or certain and like before VAR, everything depends on the daftness level of the ref.
VAR is shit. All it did was giving the refs more unnecessary power and increasing the shitshow level tenfold.
So referee deemed that McT slapped Son, and so the goal did not stand, but then it was no big deal. So McT didn't get his second yellow.
I believe they deemed it accidental, which is why he didn’t receive a second yellow.
Blaming VAR all the time just lets the players and the refs off the hook.
If Son doesn't dive I don't think VAR would have been needed all game and that would be the case a lot of the time.
According to the commentators on Optus Sport they said VAR initially reviewed the McT incident for a red card, but decided it was not.
I'm not sure you playing against 12 year olds is the benchmark for Premier League red cards.
Top level football, there's going to be contact, sometimes hard contact. It doesn't always have to result in a red.
Pundits aren't shy in wanting reds for elbows but I didn't see anyone say Pogba should have been off.
It's all got very messed up.
Having reflected on the incident, while I think it was soft, football has been this way for some time, even before VAR and giving a foul isn't all that surprising. We got a soft penalty against Granada on Thursday too. Personally I think both incidents were probably fouls but they're both so soft that the game would be better if they weren't given at all.
Would you still think a finger touching a cheek is a foul if it hadn’t caused Son to collapse to the floor? Is there not a de minimis amount of contact required for it to be a free kick? Was Pogba on Dier also a foul before our third goal? Even by current standards, this was extremely soft.
At least when Fernandes got up his face was red from the contact. Son didn't even have a scratch.
I knew it would be given as a foul as soon as i saw the replay. The most frustrating thing for me is that it's likely Scott only threw the arm to shrug Son off in response to his own attempted foul (pulling at his shirt when he'd already gone past him).
I have a certain amount of sympathy for refs though because players and benches are ALWAYS on the con over the smallest thing which has become more obvious with no crowd noise - literally screaming and contesting every decision down to a throw in that the player knows damn well they got the last touch on.
I have a certain amount of sympathy for refs though because players and benches are ALWAYS on the con over the smallest thing which has become more obvious with no crowd noise - literally screaming and contesting every decision down to a throw in that the player knows damn well they got the last touch on.
If he didn't go down, it's not a foul and that's a part of the problem as whether it's a hand to the face or a tackle, players are effectively encouraged to go down otherwise they won't win free kicks or penalties.
For the third goal, Pogba didn't touch Dier's face so it would never be given as a foul.
Unfortunately, players going down over the smallest bit of contact will remain part of the game and I'm not sure any rule changes or getting rid of VAR will change that.
Agreed and I suspect the root of the problem is that refs aren't being properly allowed to ref the game.
They seem subservient to the demands of being seen to look they're making decisions, to the point where it goes above actual decision-making. Like knowing a player is obviously faking an injury because he has form for it.
I just refuse to believe they can all be this shit at judging when players are faking being hurt. Unless they have a huge psychological defect we don't know about.
I don't in that as the contact was obviously minimal. If anything after going and watching the replay he should have booked Son for diving.
The problem is that there was contact. While it was minimal and certainly didn't warrant the physio's to come and and do a fecking concussion assessment, a flailing hand to or near the eye can hurt. Enough to go down? Almost certainly not but I'd say a large proportion of fouls given in football aren't enough to send someone to the ground but they do it to win the foul anyway.
If that was a foul then the Rashford one on the edge of the box was assault and that wasn't a foul either.
He's not going to book someone for diving if there is any sort of contact, minimal or not. Allowing the goal would have sufficed for me and that's where the ref should be able to make his own judgement rather than being obligated to go with the 'unatural position' direction of the VAR officials.
Still reading it’s not VAR it’s the refs excuses. It’s VAR that is creating this black or white nonsense calls the refs are having to make.
Out with common sense and interpretation, in with black or white rule book and slow motion replay scrutiny is never going to be good for football.
Out with common sense and interpretation, in with black or white rule book and slow motion replay scrutiny is never going to be good for football.
Wasn't Rivaldo punished for pretending to be more hurt than he was in a world cup game against Turkey?
Offsides are an easy one. You are either off, or you aren't. I have no problem with VAR being used for that. Handballs too, now the rules have settled down. It hits your hand in an unnatural position or it doesn't.
The problem comes with the open to interpretation rules likes fouls. An easy fix would be to ban slow motion replays on fouls and possibly handballs. Give the referee a replay but if he can't see it in real time, he can't give it.
The problem comes with the open to interpretation rules likes fouls. An easy fix would be to ban slow motion replays on fouls and possibly handballs. Give the referee a replay but if he can't see it in real time, he can't give it.
Where were you the entire season? That offside interpretation has been tinkered like crazy, with vertical horizontal slant lines making the decisions and VAR is already prepping up how to zoom in into the player's armpits to see if the vertical lines are getting dropped from the exact centre of armpit.
Like i say, it doesn't matter if it's 1mm offside, it's still offside. I have no problem using VAR for that as long as we decide what the measurement point is. It's not a subjective decision.
I think they need to go into it with the acceptance that errors will happen. And with that knowledge then raising the VAR bar like crazy and only bringing it in for blatantly bad decisions. If a VAR ref can't tell on 1 normal replay that the onfield decision is bad/wrong, VAR shouldn't intervene. If it takes more than 1 or 2 views to make a decision, then on fid decision should stand. If an offside looks tight on a replay, on field decision should stand. If the VAR shows a clear on/offside after a replay, then stop play and have a look (lines should basically never come into play). If a penalty is missed but looks a pen after replay, it should get overturned.
Get VAR in for the really bad calls. Leave everything else down to the refs. Will mean they have to ref normally and can't ignore reffing situations as "var will sort it out" only for the VAR ref to deem it "not a clear and obvious error" and both being on different pages. Refs should ref the game and VAR should only ever come in for blatantly bad or wrong decisions. Stuff like Drogbas offside in 2010, Henry's or Maradona's handball, De Jong not getting sent off for a Kung fu kick in the world cup final, Rashford getting tripped in the Manchester Derby last year but VAR needing to step in for the pen, etc. Blatant calls. Never ever any marginal or tight decisions.
Get VAR in for the really bad calls. Leave everything else down to the refs. Will mean they have to ref normally and can't ignore reffing situations as "var will sort it out" only for the VAR ref to deem it "not a clear and obvious error" and both being on different pages. Refs should ref the game and VAR should only ever come in for blatantly bad or wrong decisions. Stuff like Drogbas offside in 2010, Henry's or Maradona's handball, De Jong not getting sent off for a Kung fu kick in the world cup final, Rashford getting tripped in the Manchester Derby last year but VAR needing to step in for the pen, etc. Blatant calls. Never ever any marginal or tight decisions.
But then how do you account for margin of error in terms of framerate?
Think I've posted similar about 4 times in this thread but I completely agree!
For me the solution is obvious - just get rid of freeze framing and slow motion on replays. People want VAR to correct appalling decisions or catastrophic errors - not to judge whether someone's shoelace is offside. If an referee error is bad enough to be spotted at normal speed, that's when VAR should intervene.
I’ve said it before in this thread, but slow motion is the main problem. It makes nothing incidents look worse than they are, a slow motion movement will be judged as if the player is performing it in slow motion, and has time to react. A good start might be to only allow replays in real time.
Yup. It should never have been brought in to re-referee every situation or the entire game, or try and correct every mistake. That was their problem in the first place. Referees made mistakes before, but people could swallow the tight calls at least. What needed fixing was the blatantly bad/unjust decisions. They brought in goal line technology to eliminate any issues there, but the same can't be done with anything else as no other part of football is black and white like that. Handball/not handball is always up for interpretation, no matter where they make the line to be handball, or what situation they describe. Same with offside. Everyone can tell what is or isn't clearly offside, up to pretty much half a foot without resorting to all the line drawing. If a decision is tighter than that and it's one players sleeve vs another's, just leave it with the on field call. It's a grey area over if it should or shouldn't be offside so leave it to what the ref/linesman felt it was if VAR can't tell after a replay or 2 one way or another.
Where the man in the shed decides to draw his line on where he thinks the arm starts is totally subjective and certainly not accurate within 1mm, so I’d have to disagree that offside is offside at the moment
When you look at our third goal, you can see Pogba doing the same thing McTominay did when he was getting past Dier.
Shocking decision. What is football coming to when a goal is ruled out because of that?
I was one of the supporters of VAR back when I thought it'd actually help referees correct terribly wrong decisions, like Henry handball Vs Ireland for example. But now that I've seen what it's actually used for, I'm in favour of it being gone for good.
Shocking decision. What is football coming to when a goal is ruled out because of that?
I was one of the supporters of VAR back when I thought it'd actually help referees correct terribly wrong decisions, like Henry handball Vs Ireland for example. But now that I've seen what it's actually used for, I'm in favour of it being gone for good.
Exactly. They're trying to solve something that no one really thought was a problem, and in so doing have created massive new problems that are far more frustrating and problematic than the originals anyway. The disconnect between what spectators and supporters want and what's been implemented is absolutely massive. Shocking that nothing is being done.
It is also to do with the precise moment the player passes the ball. How can we be absolutely certain that the offside line is drawn at the very moment the ball leaves his foot.
Even if the ball is passed with a speed of only 30mph that equates to 44feet/second.
Even if the line is drawn 0.1 second out, that equates to potential 4 feet error...
And that doesn't take account of the receiving player running speed.
I don’t know the ins and out of frame rate accuracy but I agree with you that I think when they hit that pause button makes a big difference too. Also as far as I know it’s when the boot touches the ball, not when the ball leaves the boot.
offside with VAR is showing the same problems as run of the mill ref calls and that’s over complicating and over analysing everything and then ends up being a joke.
Ok. I was of the view that offside was when the ball was passed.
But anyway, there is scope for small errors, especially when offside is down to tiny margins.
It is a classic case of Unintended Consequences.
I have always believed that football is played by humans and humans should implement the laws.
He got fined, though his was an extreme case of diving. He went down holding his face when the ball hit his legs.