Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion

I can't believe the backlash to this disallowed goal. It was such a blatant, standard foul. Any time the referee sees a player use his arm to fend off an opponent and slap him bang in the middle of the face he will give a free kick and no one will complain.

You're all acting like this was some absolutely crazy decision that beggars belief like Maguire's chokehold on Azpilicueta going unpunished earlier in the season...
 
Utd heap said:
I love the arguement its not VARs fault its the refs.

So blinkered.

If the ref isn't pulled to the side by three geezers in a van 100 miles away and told to look at it 5 times in slo mo he sticks with the original correct call.

Its an absolute disaster. Anyone defending it enjoys a different sport. With fans in the ground it will become even worse.
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VAR is a tool and a system. A bad workman always blames his tool.
 
Pink Moon said:
I can't believe the backlash to this disallowed goal. It was such a blatant, standard foul. Any time the referee sees a player use his arm to fend off an opponent and slap him bang in the middle of the face he will give a free kick and no one will complain.

You're all acting like this was some absolutely crazy decision that beggars belief like Maguire's chokehold on Azpilicueta going unpunished earlier in the season...
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He saw Rashford get an arm to the chin 5 minutes before and waved it away
 
Utd heap said:
I love the arguement its not VARs fault its the refs.

So blinkered.

If the ref isn't pulled to the side by three geezers in a van 100 miles away and told to look at it 5 times in slo mo he sticks with the original correct call.

Its an absolute disaster. Anyone defending it enjoys a different sport. With fans in the ground it will become even worse.
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The VARs and refs are the same people, so it's much of a muchness who you criticise generally.

In instances like this it's unclear exactly how much a particular VAR is to blame as we don't know what the ref initially told them, so we don't know what "clear and obvious" is being judged on. You'd need to hear the conversation to know.

We do know that the ref had the chance to make up his own mind after viewing the incident though, so there's more certain blame on him. But sure, the VAR may also be to blame for referring it.
 
sullydnl said:
We do know that the ref had the chance to make up his own mind after viewing the incident though, so there's more certain blame on him.
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Exactly. The referees are just too fecking weak and will immediately bow to the peer pressure of it being reviewed at all almost every time. Of the hundreds of VAR decisions we've now seen, how many times has the ref gone over to the monitor, and actually stuck with his original decision? Could count them on one hand I bet.
 
sullydnl said:
The VARs and refs are the same people, so it's much of a muchness who you criticise generally.

In instances like this it's unclear exactly how much a particular VAR is to blame as we don't know what the ref initially told them, so we don't know what "clear and obvious" is being judged on. You'd need to hear the conversation to know.

We do know that the ref had the chance to make up his own mind after viewing the incident though, so there's more certain blame on him. But sure, the VAR may also be to blame for referring it.
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If they refer the Rashford one AND the McT one, I'd think the games the same for everyone.

The ref has a clear view of McTs, but changes his mind when looks at it in slow motion and Son collapsing. His initial view was "I saw it, it wasn't enough for a foul". I'd love him to be interviewed and explain why he changes his mind
 
cyberman said:
He saw Rashford get an arm to the chin 5 minutes before and waved it away
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He obviously did not see that. At all or not the way you did at any rate, otherwise he would have blown for a foul.

It wasn't a penalty, it wasn't a red card, therefore VAR can't do anything about it, for obvious reasons.
 
You can argue that it is harder to make judgement calls (which officiating inevitably is a match is) when your judgement is being called into question by someone else. This is what is different when VAR enters the equation versus officiating without VAR. I am not a psychologist, but I would assume that self doubt creeps in every time you get the VAR team in your ear, and the fact that he is forced to look at the situation on a monitor might explain why Kavanagh feels that he has to disallow the goal, even though it is not in line with the other calls he makes in the game.

I believe that might be the single biggest problem with VAR.
 
Moonwalker said:
He obviously did not see that. At all or not the way you did at any rate, otherwise he would have blown for a foul.

It wasn't a penalty, it wasn't a red card, therefore VAR can't do anything about it, for obvious reasons.
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It was actually close enough to the box for a VAR review for a pen if i remember correctly. It happened right on the line.
Nothing.
 
Where is the consistency?

No goal.

PRI_190212430-640x360.jpg


Perfectly fine goal?

gdagxVP.jpg


They haven't a clue what they're doing. There is a new set of rules for every match.
 
Pink Moon said:
I can't believe the backlash to this disallowed goal. It was such a blatant, standard foul. Any time the referee sees a player use his arm to fend off an opponent and slap him bang in the middle of the face he will give a free kick and no one will complain.

You're all acting like this was some absolutely crazy decision that beggars belief like Maguire's chokehold on Azpilicueta going unpunished earlier in the season...
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How come so many neutral people disagree with you. Don’t be such a blinkered idiot. He’s barely touched him and he’s gone down like he’s been shot. Can you hand on heart say that’s what you enjoy watching, or that’s how the sport should play. I’d expect better from any football fan out there that thinks that should be a foul. Maybe people just haven’t played the game themselves.
 
Shane88 said:
Where is the consistency?

No goal.

PRI_190212430-640x360.jpg


Perfectly fine goal?

gdagxVP.jpg


They haven't a clue what they're doing. There is a new set of rules for every match.
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Couldn’t the agree more it’s a genuine disgrace. I actually refuse to believe when this much money is poured in they can’t get better refs. The premier league could build a bloody university for refs with all the money they make. They should be able to produce a production line of refs who all follow the same rules. They just have no incentive to change or add any accountability to the game, shambles.
 
Pink Moon said:
I can't believe the backlash to this disallowed goal. It was such a blatant, standard foul. Any time the referee sees a player use his arm to fend off an opponent and slap him bang in the middle of the face he will give a free kick and no one will complain.

You're all acting like this was some absolutely crazy decision that beggars belief like Maguire's chokehold on Azpilicueta going unpunished earlier in the season...
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You're having a mare this evening. The mask is slipping too much.

Log off.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
How come so many neutral people disagree with you. Don’t be such a blinkered idiot. He’s barely touched him and he’s gone down like he’s been shot. Can you hand on heart say that’s what you enjoy watching, or that’s how the sport should play. I’d expect better from any football fan out there that thinks that should be a foul. Maybe people just haven’t played the game themselves.
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Pink Moon is an anti Man United t**t, I’d pay no heed.
 
Pink Moon said:
I can't believe the backlash to this disallowed goal. It was such a blatant, standard foul. Any time the referee sees a player use his arm to fend off an opponent and slap him bang in the middle of the face he will give a free kick and no one will complain.

You're all acting like this was some absolutely crazy decision that beggars belief like Maguire's chokehold on Azpilicueta going unpunished earlier in the season...
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:lol:

Let's consult some more neutral folk than you... like actual fecking Spurs fans on the Fighting Cock:

There is no way this should be called back but its VAR so who knows.
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We got lucky with that.
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Jesus fecking Christ we have got away with that.
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Glad it went in our favor but that is an absolute joke.
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I don't think it's a foul, very lucky. If the hand on Son is a foul, so is the pull on McT's arm. But I'll take it.
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That was just holding off , harsh imo....still sod em.
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Geez we are lucky
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acnumber9 said:
Pink Moon is an anti Man United t**t, I’d pay no heed.
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Can’t be arsed with people like that. I would feel the same if this happened for us too. I just can’t stand the justification for rewarding cheating players over minimal contact. Every football fan should be united on this front.
 
Moonwalker said:
It was outside, just, but still clearly outside.
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I dunno. We had a pen overruled because the foul hit the back of Cavanis foot that was outside of the box despite him being in the box himself.
Bring out the offside lines. Was his face in or out?!!
 
sullydnl said:
The VARs and refs are the same people, so it's much of a muchness who you criticise generally.

In instances like this it's unclear exactly how much a particular VAR is to blame as we don't know what the ref initially told them, so we don't know what "clear and obvious" is being judged on. You'd need to hear the conversation to know.

We do know that the ref had the chance to make up his own mind after viewing the incident though, so there's more certain blame on him. But sure, the VAR may also be to blame for referring it.
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It must be bloody hard to stand over a decision when a voice in your ear says “eh, you might want to take a look at that” after reviewing video replays

Decisions in real time are far less pressured and - as we’ve seen on a few occasions- arguably more likely to be correct. There are so many subtle ways for referees to judge the severity of of a challenge that they lose in a replay. Even something as simple as the noise of impact can be helpful. But all that goes away when you’re looking at multiple super slo mo replays, with players chirping in your ear and fellow referees already doubting your original decision.

All of which was presumably why the “clear and obvious error” clause was originally a key component of VAR. Which seems to have got lost along the way; another example of the constantly shifting goalposts this bullshit has foisted on the game.
 
Pink Moon said:
I can't believe the backlash to this disallowed goal. It was such a blatant, standard foul. Any time the referee sees a player use his arm to fend off an opponent and slap him bang in the middle of the face he will give a free kick and no one will complain.

You're all acting like this was some absolutely crazy decision that beggars belief like Maguire's chokehold on Azpilicueta going unpunished earlier in the season...
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Yeh, I was furious tbh but not because I didn't think it was necessarily a foul, its the inconsistency. We saw 2 very similar incidents prior to it that were not deemed fouls. Pogba on [Spurs player] and the one on Rashford.
 
Both sides have good reason to feel aggrieved by VAR. The disallowed Cavani goal, that was a ridiculous decision. But before that Pogba should have been sent off for a clear elbow.
 
arnie_ni said:
Then why bottle the 2nd yellow? You can't punch someone on the face and not get a yellow if that's what they're thinking.
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Apparently they can't use VAR for calls on yellow card only red cards. So this being a wrong call and never warranting a red it couldn't be a yellow.

Nice to see how much Sky laid it on them shit decision with a system that is ruining the enjoyment of football.
 
arthurka said:
Apparently they can't use VAR for calls on yellow card only red cards. So this being a wrong call and never warranting a red it couldn't be a yellow.

Nice to see how much Sky laid it on them shit decision with a system that is ruining the enjoyment of football.
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Well that's cant be true is it?because Shaw got booked against Burnley or someone earlier when we scored and they pulled it back for the fk.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That was a fairly solid elbow tbf. Way more of a foul than McT’s gentle flick.
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It’s at best a foul. There’s absolutely nothing in those kind of challenges. I say that as someone who is 6’4, you simply can’t avoid your arms hitting people when you are that tall. What are tall people supposed to do, jump like bean sprouts or maybe we just remove anyone over 6ft?
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
It’s at best a foul. There’s absolutely nothing in those kind of challenges. I say that as someone who is 6’4, you simply can’t avoid your arms hitting people when you are that tall. What are tall people supposed to do, jump like bean sprouts or maybe we just remove anyone over 6ft?
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Come on now. I’m 6’ 2”. I’ve been playing football against actual children regularly over the last couple of months (with my 12 year old son’s friends, while they wait for club football to start) and have never once elbowed anyone in the face.

I don’t think there was any malice from Pogba but that was about as obvious a potential red card elbow as you’re ever likely to see. Especially if went for a VAR nit-picking review.
 
Pink Moon said:
I can't believe the backlash to this disallowed goal. It was such a blatant, standard foul. Any time the referee sees a player use his arm to fend off an opponent and slap him bang in the middle of the face he will give a free kick and no one will complain.

You're all acting like this was some absolutely crazy decision that beggars belief like Maguire's chokehold on Azpilicueta going unpunished earlier in the season...
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You're in about as an extreme minority as a person can be in a football discussion. Pretty much every pundit, ex player, even rival fans are in agreement on it. To call it a 'blatant standard foul' is such a strange stance to take.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Come on now. I’m 6’ 2”. I’ve been playing football against actual children regularly over the last couple of months (with my 12 year old son’s friends, while they wait for club football to start) and have never once elbowed anyone in the face.

I don’t think there was any malice from Pogba but that was about as obvious a potential red card elbow as you’re ever likely to see. Especially if went for a VAR nit-picking review.
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I’m 6”1 and gave one kid a nose bleed and one a fat lip on the dads v lads match at the end of the season. It’s about running style.Pogba has an odd chicken wing motion with his arms. He’ll catch people. It’s not flailing, or forceful. It wasn’t a potential red, it might be considered a foul at worst.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Come on now. I’m 6’ 2”. I’ve been playing football against actual children regularly over the last couple of months (with my 12 year old son’s friends, while they wait for club football to start) and have never once elbowed anyone in the face.

I don’t think there was any malice from Pogba but that was about as obvious a potential red card elbow as you’re ever likely to see. Especially if went for a VAR nit-picking review.
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Maybe I’m just a generally more clumsy person than you but having played CB all my life I’ve received and dished out far more accidental elbows than that over the years. There’s zero intent there. I used to say the same with the likes of crouch, Maguire gets done all the time for it too. I’m not saying it’s never a foul or that it’s not sometimes worthy of a red card but that Pogba one has no force and it’s clearly just leverage with his arms. That’s never a red and if it is that’s another stick to beat football with for me.
 
Park's Petrified Pooch said:
I’m 6”1 and gave one kid a nose bleed and one a fat lip on the dads v lads match at the end of the season. It’s about running style.Pogba has an odd chicken wing motion with his arms. He’ll catch people. It’s not flailing, or forceful. It wasn’t a potential red, it might be considered a foul at worst.
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Exactly putting arms out even at head height shouldn’t be an instant red card, the fact things like this even get discussed these days shows how much football has already lost.
 
Park's Petrified Pooch said:
I’m 6”1 and gave one kid a nose bleed and one a fat lip on the dads v lads match at the end of the season. It’s about running style.Pogba has an odd chicken wing motion with his arms. He’ll catch people. It’s not flailing, or forceful. It wasn’t a potential red, it might be considered a foul at worst.
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:lol: Jesus. Carnage. I’d say that went down well!
 
arnie_ni said:
Well that's cant be true is it?because Shaw got booked against Burnley or someone earlier when we scored and they pulled it back for the fk.
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Don't know about that but those are the rules apparently. You can only use it if it's is to change a red card offence to a yellow so was that incident not looked at as a possible red card offence? Hence it being changed from red to yellow? This was never being looked at as a red card offence hence not being able to give him a yellow.
 
arthurka said:
Don't know about that but those are the rules apparently. You can only use it if it's is to change a red card offence to a yellow so was that incident not looked at as a possible red card offence? Hence it being changed from red to yellow? This was never being looked at as a red card offence hence not being able to give him a yellow.
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No. United scored a goal, and it was pulled wayyyy back for a fk and yellow card for Shaw. Neville was on commentry saying he thought it was a red if you remember?
 
arnie_ni said:
No. United scored a goal, and it was pulled wayyyy back for a fk and yellow card for Shaw. Neville was on commentry saying he thought it was a red if you remember?
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Exactly it was being looked at as a red card worthy offence hence the ref being able to award the yellow instead of red. But this wasn't being looked at as a red card worthy offence so the ref couldn't award the second yellow.
 
arthurka said:
Exactly it was being looked at as a red card worthy offence hence the ref being able to award the yellow instead of red. But this wasn't being looked at as a red card worthy offence so the ref couldn't award the second yellow.
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Sorry, what I meant was they couldn't have awarded a fk and yellow if it wasn't for the goal because it wasn't deemed a red. If we won a corner say, we'd have been able to re start with our corner. At least that's how I remember them explaining it
 
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