Refs & VAR 2020/2021 Discussion

Pogue Mahone said:
Maybe thought it was one of his own players?
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Fair point.

I didn't think it was much of a foul at first... Now I've seen it a hundred times I think it is one... But I still think De Gea can be stronger in that situation, because even without the push I'm not even sure he's getting there.
 
Roboc7 said:
Ref got both big decisions wrong but they are exactly the kind of decisions that VAR never over turns whichever way they are given. It’s essentially redundant for those kind of incidents as whatever ref decides is final, whether it’s right or wrong.
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Apart from a zillion penalties and a bunch of red cards this season.
 
Berbasbullet said:
They should mic up refs and VAR like rugby, too cowardly to do it, might actually have to explain decisions.
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Should have happened years ago, would also hold players accountable for their disgusting language or abuse of refs.
 
The referee chief should be made to explain all the major decisions for the previous week in a weekly press conference and apologise where they were wrong.
 
Annihilate Now! said:
Fair point.

I didn't think it was much of a foul at first... Now I've seen it a hundred times I think it is one... But I still think De Gea can be stronger in that situation, because even without the push I'm not even sure he's getting there.
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He’s absolutely shite at dominating his box. Always been a weakness but regressed horribly in the last couple of years. He was clearly fouled in this instance but a stronger, braver more committed keeper would have ridden that challenge and still got a fist to the ball.
 
Let’s be honest the VAR cluster feck is exactly what we should have expected. These idiots have been making stupid decisions for years and hidden behind the fact it happens in real time as their excuse.
All Var has really done is shown that to be the lie we knew it was.
 
Martial had already shot and the ball was inches from going in, makes a mockery of the whole thing
 
The push was probably deemed not hard enough as it didn't affect De Gea's jump too much and the fact that he showed no response of being fouled.

Maguire one looks like a foul to me. One player reaches the ball, other makes contact with the player only and didn't come close to heading it.
 
What is the point in having a ref in the studio? They always just agree with the ref's decision no matter what and look out for their own.
 
Funny thing is if their goal was initially ruled off for a foul against De Gea I don't think VAR would have reversed the call. And at the same time, had our goal been allowed I don't think the VAR would have reversed the call. Mind you, I think theirs looked more of a foul than ours. Either way, if we are going to win trophies, we need to get past refs calls and take care of business ourself. And while we are at it, it would help if our keeper could deal with a simple cross...
 
If the ref blew before before the goal went in then that's diabolical. VAR has been in place for more than long enough for them to know not to whistle, particularly given refs like Simon Hooper have made that exact same mistake repeatedly already.
 
NinjaFletch said:
Let’s be honest the VAR cluster feck is exactly what we should have expected. These idiots have been making stupid decisions for years and hidden behind the fact it happens in real time as their excuse.
All Var has really done is shown that to be the lie we knew it was.
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That’s a legitimate excuse!

Refereeing is bloody difficult and they’re generally good at their job. We got pissed off because multiple replays from assorted angles highlight the human fallibility (just like it highlights bad mistakes by very talented footballers) and we couldn’t cope with that reality, for some strange reason.

It’s us that was the problem, not the referees.

Well we’ve got what we deserved...
 
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Beagle said:
The push was probably deemed not hard enough as it didn't affect De Gea's jump too much and the fact that he showed no response of being fouled.

Maguire one looks like a foul to me. One player reaches the ball, other makes contact with the player only and didn't come close to heading it.
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That describes the foul on De Gea too. Except the SU player, unlike Maguire, made absolutely no attempt to try and play the ball.
 
Berbaclass said:
He said the referee was wrong to blow early. Not sure what you are watching.
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Maybe my stream froze because I don't remember him saying that - I only heard him say it wasn't a foul on De Gea, but was a foul on Ramsgate which is bollocks - Sharp wasn't even going for the ball and Maguire was.
 
Beagle said:
The push was probably deemed not hard enough as it didn't affect De Gea's jump too much and the fact that he showed no response of being fouled.

Maguire one looks like a foul to me. One player reaches the ball, other makes contact with the player only and didn't come close to heading it.
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Totally disagree. They are comparable events. If anything the push on De Gea is more obvious and pronounced.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
That’s a legitimate excuse!

Refereeing is bloody difficult and they’re generally good at their job. We got pissed off because multiple replays from assorted angles highlight the human fallibility (just like it highlights bad mistakes by very talented footballers) and we couldn’t cope with that reality, for some strange reason.

It’s us that was the problem, not the referees.

Well we’ve got what we deserved...
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It’s not easy, but that doesn’t mean that it excuses everything and the standard has been significantly below par for many years.

As highlighted by referees still getting decisions wrong with the benefit of super slow mo and numerous angles.
 
NinjaFletch said:
It’s not easy, but that doesn’t mean that it excuses everything and the standard has been significantly below par for many years.

As highlighted by referees still getting decisions wrong with the benefit of super slow mo and numerous angles.
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The main issue with VAR as it stands is because it’s shite and unworkable system. They’re only supposed to correct clear and obvious errors, which is impossibly vague. The ref on the pitch is generally supposed to let play continue when VAR might be needed but they also have to blow for what they think are obvious fouls, or we’ll have so many VAR adjudicated incidents there will be double digits injury time every half. Knowing when and when not to involve VAR is subject to the same human fallibility as life before VAR. The offside rule has become ludicrously over-egged and changes multiple times per season. As for fecking handball, don’t get me started.

These are all VAR driven complications that come from trying to make a fast, free-flowing game submit to insane nit-picking. It’s an absolute shambles. This isn’t football.
 
We should have a player just run into the keeper from behind as he's about to jump, he doesn't even need to challenge for the ball. It's a foolproof strategy.
 
acnumber9 said:
That’s absolute nonsense though. We had a penalty given this season after the final whistle. Peter Walton talks absolute shite.
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That's completely different though. The Brighton incident that was reviewed happened while the ball was in play. It's like saying a pen couldn't be given for the previous attack because the ball went out for a throw in and is out of play.
 
Anustart89 said:
That's completely different though. The Brighton incident that was reviewed happened while the ball was in play. It's like saying a pen couldn't be given for the previous attack because the ball went out for a throw in and is out of play.
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Already commented on it.
 
Anustart89 said:
We should have a player just run into the keeper from behind as he's about to jump, he doesn't even need to challenge for the ball. It's a foolproof strategy.
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It only works if you can get refs to run with a narrative that supports your teams tactic, such as telling the ref not to protect De Gea and then targeting him. I swear this young new ref was guided from other instances on how to approach this game for a spectacle. It makes no sense that they can get away with it when you have VAR, disallowing goals for no reason at will and ignoring clear and obvious fouls against United. Apparently it is random that we get a lot of decisions against us after Klopp created a narrative for refs to hide behind.

I rememeber Van Gaal and Mourinho being fined and made an example out of after very light comments towards decisions. So we're now staying classy and not saying jack shit but the league is a complete shitshow due to the state of the refs and their bosses who allow and encourage narrative based refereeing like whistleblower Clattenburg has admitted being a part of.
 
Billy sharp basically rugby tackles De gea while De Gea is mid air and moves him out of the path of the ball. He makes no attempt to play the ball hes not even looking at it he is there to do one job disrupt de Gea and he does illegally.

Maguire moves infront of ramsdale to challenge for the ball, hes more then entitled to do that as long as he doesn't make a huge amount of physical contact with ramsdale and he doesn't he just stands his ground. Ramsdale makes a mistake In dropping a ball that he should catch gets bailed out by an over zealous referee.

I thought VAR was bought in to sort these daft calls out, but they seem to be obsessed with the clear and obvious thing rather than just getting the decision right. The problem is there idea of clear and obvious is miles of everyone else's idea of clear and obvious, they think they are protecting there mates by not calling on there mistakes but there just making themselves look more and more incompetent as the weeks go on.
 
Longshanks said:
Billy sharp basically rugby tackles De gea while De Gea is mid air and moves him out of the path of the ball. He makes no attempt to play the ball hes not even looking at it he is there to do one job disrupt de Gea and he does illegally.

Maguire moves infront of ramsdale to challenge for the ball, hes more then entitled to do that as long as he doesn't make a huge amount of physical contact with ramsdale and he doesn't he just stands his ground. Ramsdale makes a mistake In dropping a ball that he should catch gets bailed out by an over zealous referee.

I thought VAR was bought in to sort these daft calls out, but they seem to be obsessed with the clear and obvious thing rather than just getting the decision right. The problem is there idea of clear and obvious is miles of everyone else's idea of clear and obvious, they think they are protecting there mates by not calling on there mistakes but there just making themselves look more and more incompetent as the weeks go on.
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Spot on, they can hide behind ‘oh but VAR isn’t allowed to call that’, but it’s a load of rubbish.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Spot on, they can hide behind ‘oh but VAR isn’t allowed to call that’, but it’s a load of rubbish.
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The more I see the first goal the more infuriating it is because in real time you cant see much in the mess of bodies, but on the replays what sharp does is obvious he waits for de Gea to jump and then just drops his shoulder and charges him and it literally pushes de Gea out of the path of the ball. It's exactly the sort of thing VAR should pick up on as the ref is going to struggle to see it in real time.
 
The ref was shite last night. If you allow one of those goals you have to allow the other, massively inconsistent, it has cost us big time as awful as we were. I doubt there will be any mention of that when people are wheeling out the United get special treatment from referees memes and hilarious jokes.
 
padzilla said:
The ref was shite last night. If you allow one of those goals you have to allow the other, massively inconsistent, it has cost us big time as awful as we were. I doubt there will be any mention of that when people are wheeling out the United get special treatment from referees memes and hilarious jokes.
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Hilarious isn’t it, what a shock no one mentions this.
 
I have been watching a lot more football recently, probably due to Man Utd's uptick in form bar yesterday and I have noted a significant shift in the use of VAR. If my memory serves me right, the major distinction could be seen in a couple of penalty shouts against Liverpool:

vs Brighton - Robertson clipped Welbeck in what you could say was pretty subjective challenge, the ball was effectively gone - however on the basis of contact in the penalty area it was given
vs Fulham - a penalty was originally not given when Fabinho took out the attackers standing leg and the referee went over to the screen and stuck to his original decision - it seemed a pretty stonewall penalty

What seems to have happened, is similar to cricket and umpires call, it seems the referees on field decision holds the merit and unless there is a complete howler it is not reversed, I think the way they are doing this is asking the VAR to take a quick look and if it is something they cannot 100% see a wrong call in that initial look it is deemed not clear and obvious and move on. In recent weeks, hardly anything has been overturned. Just from a Utd perspective:

- Maguires goal vs Burnley
- Fred's penalty shout vs Fulham
- Sheffield United's first goal yesterday

Being a cricket fan, I have noted recently a lot more talk from big names about the unfairness of umpires call - i.e. the same delivery could be out for one batsman and not out for the other batsman just because of the umpires on field decision, it seems it is something over time may slowly change

From a football perspective, it seems wholly unfair - you end up with two different decisions, for similar sort of plays within the same game and the way it is going players will need to start looking at making things look like a foul especially from corners to get the on field decision.

If DDG had thrown himself to the ground, it would have looked more like a foul and may have been given, something Ramsdale probably did better.
 
What I don't understand is why didn't we get the VAR goal check on screen after the goal as they would do for an offside? I'm sure their goal went to VAR but I don't remember seeing the on screen review.

Similar thing happened with the City goal vs Villa. We had a 5 minute inquest when it came to the Shaw challenge against Burnley the other week but no more than 10 seconds to decide the City goal and the Sheffield United goal last night. Massively inconsistent.
 
Wonder if De Gea shoving the goalscorer before he himself was shoved had anything to do with him not getting the free kick on VAR? One shove each team = play on?
 
After watching it a few times, it has become obvious to me that it is not actually a push. Not an intended one, anyway. Look at this feet. He gets tripped up by one of his own players. He is not pushing, he is falling. It is most obvious on camera angle from behind the goal, but you can see it in the other angles too.
 
RainyDays_10 said:
After watching it a few times, it has become obvious to me that it is not actually a push. Not an intended one, anyway. Look at this feet. He gets tripped up by one of his own players. He is not pushing, he is falling. It is most obvious on camera angle from behind the goal, but you can see it in the other angles too.
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Does intention matter? He is basically rugby tackling the keeper regardless.
 
Roboc7 said:
Ref got both big decisions wrong but they are exactly the kind of decisions that VAR never over turns whichever way they are given. It’s essentially redundant for those kind of incidents as whatever ref decides is final, whether it’s right or wrong.
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This brings my piss to a boil. If there is suspicion of an offside they will review it for ages and draw up their stupid fecking lines, but in cases like this they will let it pass because "the ref saw it".

So if the ref is in doubt, then its ok to check with VAR, but if he gets it wrong its not? Its mental
 
RainyDays_10 said:
After watching it a few times, it has become obvious to me that it is not actually a push. Not an intended one, anyway. Look at this feet. He gets tripped up by one of his own players. He is not pushing, he is falling. It is most obvious on camera angle from behind the goal, but you can see it in the other angles too.
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So as long as a player falls into an opponent it's not an infringement? Found a new tactic then! Just fall over on corners and knock the keeper to the ground, tell the ref you got dizzy = profit.
 
Anustart89 said:
So as long as a player falls into an opponent it's not an infringement? Found a new tactic then! Just fall over on corners and knock the keeper to the ground, tell the ref you got dizzy = profit.
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I didn't say that, did I? I am just saying that there are a lot of accusations being thrown around towards him for purposely "rugby tackling" DDG, when that simply isn't the case. He tripped over a teammate's leg. Completely innocent. I don't think you can actually make a tactic of genuinely accidentally tripping over someone's leg, so your smartarse comment was a bit dumb, to be honest.

I've already stated in another thread that I feel both goals should have been ruled out, if the DDG/VVD incident last season at Anfield was anything to go by.
 
RainyDays_10 said:
I didn't say that, did I? I am just saying that there are a lot of accusations being thrown around towards him for purposely "rugby tackling" DDG, when that simply isn't the case. He tripped over a teammate's leg. Completely innocent. I don't think you can actually make a tactic of genuinely accidentally tripping over someone's leg, so your smartarse comment was a bit dumb, to be honest.

I've already stated in another thread that I feel both goals should have been ruled out, if the DDG/VVD incident last season at Anfield was anything to go by.
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Tripped over a teammate? Wow, at no time did he ever look towards the ball, not once. His only intention was to foul de gea, nothing more.
Tripped over. Jesus Christ even for a scouser that's reaching.
 
Love how refs tell players to jog off the pitch for a sub. Twatkinson goes to check that VAR then and walks so slowly, loving all eyes on him.
 
Bubz27 said:
Love how refs tell players to jog off the pitch for a sub. Twatkinson goes to check that VAR then and walks so slowly, loving all eyes on him.
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It's OK. He'll definitely add it on afterwards. He's particularly good at giving the right amount of injury time.
 
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