Nacho is a really good def and he is way better than Varane this season. I dont get why people still talk about that 2nd leg vs Juventus since we were qualified after the 1st leg and Ramos and Nacho were not even available. Let's see how bad/good we do tonight at the Allianz with all our players available.
Real Madrid 2017/18
- Thread starter Suedesi
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Nacho is a really good def and he is way better than Varane this season. I dont get why people still talk about that 2nd leg vs Juventus since we were qualified after the 1st leg and Ramos and Nacho were not even available. Let's see how bad/good we do tonight at the Allianz with all our players available.
I think Bayern will knock out Real Madrid over 2 legs. Zidane for all his talents, will be outfoxed by Heynckes by the end.
But if Madrid make the final,they are the favorites. All those saying it would be a bloodbath are simply not taking into account Madrid's overwhelming finals record. They'd find a way to survive those 90 minutes against Liverpool's front 3 and Madrid's midfield is massively more talented than Liverpool's. And they have that chap with the number 7 up front. I can't remember his name, but he might come in handy.
But if Madrid make the final,they are the favorites. All those saying it would be a bloodbath are simply not taking into account Madrid's overwhelming finals record. They'd find a way to survive those 90 minutes against Liverpool's front 3 and Madrid's midfield is massively more talented than Liverpool's. And they have that chap with the number 7 up front. I can't remember his name, but he might come in handy.
Hope Bayern smash Real over two games. I doubt it, but it would make me very happy.
I have no idea why, but I just have this burning dislike for Real Madrid.
I have no idea why, but I just have this burning dislike for Real Madrid.
Have a feeling Bayern will beat them, the stars have been aligning for Liverpool to win the thing for quite some time, and a final against Bayern would be far better for them on paper, despite not being a gimme.
I had a look last night and Klopp has lost his last 5 finals IIRC (2 German Cups, 1 UCL, 1 League Cup and 1 Europa League) and Liverpool as a club have lost their last 3 (2 League Cups v Chelsea and City & 1 Europa League). It would be sods law for both to break that sequence in the one that means the most but it's not as nailed on as many were talking last night that they're going to win it
They haven't played any good team this season in Europe besides City, they had a very easy path to the final. Its not a good reference.
The best team in the world with fast break situations is Madrid, and has been since Mourinho's time with them.
Madrid can have the ball because the quality of their midfield, but they also love to sit back and counterattack. They make both things in all their games.
Copa? Madrid played all the copa with reserves. Ronaldo didn't traveled even once with the team for the copa games, wasn't even in the bench. Then this year they haven't faced Barca, and vs Atletico they played without Isco, Modric, Casemiro, Benzema. They are resting players in every game in La Liga since 5 months ago. They still tied the game vs Atletico that played with all their best players.
Madrid's defence is terrible?
You know the 2nd leg vs juve they played with a 20 year old kid in defense instead of Ramos right? And that 2 of the 3 goals were thanks to mistakes of Navas?
PSG has much better attack than Liverpool, still only managed to score one in 180 mins vs Madrid's full defense. And Juve couldn't score vs them when having all their defense also.
Another guy who takes as an example the last game vs Juve, where Madrid played a 20 year old kid instead of Ramls or Nacho, in a game they thought was only a tramit because of the first game, and where Navas made 2 mistakes that ended in 2 goals. Please...
Madrid to win tonight and Bayern to win in Spain.
Final agg score and who goes through? No Idea.
Final agg score and who goes through? No Idea.
We didn't. PSG pinned us back in the 2nd half, it wasn't our choice. We weren't conservative at all against juventus. Their first two goals were from a lost ball in our defensive 3rd in the build up and a counter attack. If anything, we weren't conservative enough in that game
About bayern in 13/14, that real madrid side was built to play like that against teams like that. This one is not. And liverpool are exactly the type of team we struggle with: fast, physical, aggressive, pushing a crazy tempo. They could very easily score 3 or 4 in 15 minutes on us. And they are good at defending crosses. The one saving grace is they are bad defending set pieces, where we are the best in the world
Yes I know that was my point, the kid was out of his depth in that game. Ramos could get booked in both legs and so would miss the final.....
Does La Liga not count anymore. Some of the goals Real Madrid have conceded this season have been embarrasing with their regular back 4.
He's talking out of his ass to be fair. Watch how Ath. Bilbo scored against them on 18/04/2018, just a week or so ago. They had their full squad and yet only drew. Madrid's defence can be gotten at and I've seen shit teams in La Liga score or win against them.
Just got to hope that Ramos doesn't get himself suspended for the final.
I wouldn't take a game in a competition you cannot win and where the visitor goalkeeper was MOTM by a country mile as a reference. Madrid are Jekyll and Hyde in the CL, and the league form wasn't too important in 5 of the last 6 CLs they won. The observation you made is interesting, but it doesn't show the whole picture.
This doesn't mean Bayern aren't perfectly capable of beating Madrid, and in fact it would be the most normal thing after so many triumphs since 2014. It's very hard to be up there so much time.
Bayern to win in Spain.
Final agg score and who goes through? No Idea.[/QUOTE]
The interesting thing about the 2nd game against Juve is that Varane did play and even if he is way better with Ramos, we could see some individual weaknesses. Seems that the team becomes weaker than last years and does concede more (big) chances, that can't be something to notice. And I thought that only the last goal was Navas's fault.
Anyway you're talking about the easy road which is true but they still bet City, one of the best attack in Europe and most of all succeeded to block the way they're playing, and concede a few opportunities on the 2 matchs.
Wa can't say on the other hand that Madrid did face some amazing offensive teams: Tottenham, and Dortmund do not have a top front-line able to put them in difficulties. Even Juve actually. In the Serie A Games, Juve have some trouble to develop some great offensive football like against Napoli and Crotone recently or FCB in CL. Plus the defence is really overrated, if they're almost eliminated by Tottenham and really in difficulties in both games, no doubt there was no compet and RM was way above in all the compartments.
But I'm not trying to downgrade the defensive performances of the RM. I'm just saying that Bayern and Liverpool could be the best offensive squads that RM will have to face. We can argue about the Bayern and PSG because the games against Sevilla weren't astonishing. But definitely, liverpool has a Stronger attack than PSG. Maybe you're just seeing the potential of the players, individually. But MBappé is still young, inconsistant, not always lucid, doing the better choice. Cavani... Not a fan. And Neymar can sometimes be really individual. Plus the 3 know each other for only 6 Months. They lack of complementarity, of creative support from the midfield. Even the way they need to play isn't very established. Etc. Etc.
So I think RM will win it but that could be harder games that you think
Final agg score and who goes through? No Idea.[/QUOTE]
The interesting thing about the 2nd game against Juve is that Varane did play and even if he is way better with Ramos, we could see some individual weaknesses. Seems that the team becomes weaker than last years and does concede more (big) chances, that can't be something to notice. And I thought that only the last goal was Navas's fault.
Anyway you're talking about the easy road which is true but they still bet City, one of the best attack in Europe and most of all succeeded to block the way they're playing, and concede a few opportunities on the 2 matchs.
Wa can't say on the other hand that Madrid did face some amazing offensive teams: Tottenham, and Dortmund do not have a top front-line able to put them in difficulties. Even Juve actually. In the Serie A Games, Juve have some trouble to develop some great offensive football like against Napoli and Crotone recently or FCB in CL. Plus the defence is really overrated, if they're almost eliminated by Tottenham and really in difficulties in both games, no doubt there was no compet and RM was way above in all the compartments.
But I'm not trying to downgrade the defensive performances of the RM. I'm just saying that Bayern and Liverpool could be the best offensive squads that RM will have to face. We can argue about the Bayern and PSG because the games against Sevilla weren't astonishing. But definitely, liverpool has a Stronger attack than PSG. Maybe you're just seeing the potential of the players, individually. But MBappé is still young, inconsistant, not always lucid, doing the better choice. Cavani... Not a fan. And Neymar can sometimes be really individual. Plus the 3 know each other for only 6 Months. They lack of complementarity, of creative support from the midfield. Even the way they need to play isn't very established. Etc. Etc.
So I think RM will win it but that could be harder games that you think
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4 clean sheets in their last 25 games.
@carvajal has played so bad so far
How do these feckers always do it.
Not again...
They don't play well and somehow keep winning
Liverpool will smash these guys.
Not convinced at all. Hope to God I'm wrong.
This is how you get the job done, now we're a bit closer for our 3rd consecutive UCL final. 
Based on what?
Listening to BT's commentary you'd think Roma defended brilliantly and Liverpool crafted goals made from gold when the reality is Roma's defending was worse than anything Real or Bayern did tonight
I think he really craves for a new tagline.
Real's defense was really sloppy. Bayern couldn't take advantage.
Right and Liverpool have prime Maldini and Nesta playing in theirs? Liverpool may well fancy their chances of scoring a goal against Madrid but Madrid will fancy theirs as well
Liverpool's attack looks more fluid than Real in full swing. I think it'll be a gunslinger with Liverpool coming out on top. I would obviously welcome being wrong on this. Ideally Bayern and Roma make the final.
I'm pretty sure Liverpool could have score 2/3 goals tonight.
Like I was saying this afternoon, they are the best attack in the 3 left, the fastest and the most talented. Their tactics and technical skills are way above the Bayern's. So if the Bayern did succeed to create some few good chances, I don't think why Liverpool which is more clinical won't transform those chances.
But of course, Kimmich, Boateng or Sule (Hummels wasn't that good today) can't be compared to the level of Lovren, Van Djik, etc. But when we remembered RM's goals, most of them were like given by the opponent, du to a really poor defence: the 2 goals at the Bernabeu against PSG in particular the penalty (pretty soft), the no-game of the PSG at the return, Juventus (Chiellini + Buffon stupid incomprehension)... Not really some built offensive action.
So if Liverpool stay focused, consolidated, I don't see why they will take more goals than Bayern tonight.
Like I was saying this afternoon, they are the best attack in the 3 left, the fastest and the most talented. Their tactics and technical skills are way above the Bayern's. So if the Bayern did succeed to create some few good chances, I don't think why Liverpool which is more clinical won't transform those chances.
But of course, Kimmich, Boateng or Sule (Hummels wasn't that good today) can't be compared to the level of Lovren, Van Djik, etc. But when we remembered RM's goals, most of them were like given by the opponent, du to a really poor defence: the 2 goals at the Bernabeu against PSG in particular the penalty (pretty soft), the no-game of the PSG at the return, Juventus (Chiellini + Buffon stupid incomprehension)... Not really some built offensive action.
So if Liverpool stay focused, consolidated, I don't see why they will take more goals than Bayern tonight.
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Zero chance of that happening. City were too predictable. Madrid are happy with and without the ball. City, Bayern etc are not. It's like they feel naked without it. In my opinion Liverpool would look pretty clueless against Madrid. Also the reason teams made those mistakes against Real is because their attack is so good! Liverpool don't have the better attack than Real. They have an attack that outscores real against certain setups.
Liverpool's attack isn't so difficult to nullify like Mourinho has shown multiple times. Just don't play stupid.
Real is one of the teams least likely to lose the ball in their own half under pressure like Liverpool's first goal against Roma. Before that goal Liverpool weren't doing much and Roma turned them on. Porto did the same thing and so did City in the 2nd half of the 2nd leg.
Zidane has adjusted his tactics to all of his opponents. He's beaten PSG, Juventus and now on his way to beat Bayern. That's 3 contenders for the title. Liverpool have played 1 all competition. They will surely be underdogs, no question.
Madrid go a comfortably beat PSG, knock out Juve and get a win in Munich and Liverpool are too much for them?
What planet is that even remotely logical?
What planet is that even remotely logical?
On planet called reality based on watching teams play, it's less about Real, per say, it is more about Liverpool tactics tailored to teams who love to waffle around with the ball in their own half in a lax mode.
Come on lads, make it 3 in a row.
Sanity.
I'm still betting on a Bayern win in the second leg for whatever reason. They should have scored more tonight but I gotta say I haven't been impressed by either side all tournament though to be honest, there's something different from other seasons that I feel Liverpool might be able to beat them both.
For being a Manchester United forum you guys surely rate a lot Liverpool (and Manchester City before being shat on by Liverpool lol) but let's wait what happens in the second leg before getting too ahead of ourselves. In an hypothetical final between Real Madrid and Liverpool, Madrid would be the favorites maybe not for a big margin but the favorites nonetheless.
Well Liverpool is also good with or without the ball right !?
Plus, you can't say that Rafinha's mistake is because of their good attack. Or Buffon's error ! It's not all of them of course but if you are present on the 2nd balls, if you don't dribble in the midfield then loose the ball and do not come back while there is no danger like Pastore, if you clear the ball on a side (hi Rabiot), there is some chances to clearly restrain the power of the RM's attack. Most of the time they don't need to create an attack and engage in it because 2/3 players took advantage on huge opponent's mistakes.
But perhaps if you push them to go out of their side, find some flaws on their own and loose balance with a high midfield etc, you can counter-attacks and maybe... For example ? the last 20 minutes against Juve at Bernabeu - they were all very high on the pitch - or Kimmich's goal where A lot of players stayed in the Bayern's side after the attack and there was the flaw.
RM is like the best, no doubt but unplayable ?
Come on... PSG ? Really. The team which never reach the 1/2. Maybe underdogs (at best) but definitly not a contender... The only contenders were the top 3 like always; we could add Juve but they never have been seen as a true winner actually.
I would say to be fair that RM have played 1 and Liverpool 0 even I do think that City is better than Juventus and it's more like a 1/1
Plus we can't compare Madrid's defence to MU's "wall". You just say that Mou did it a few times like it's easy. All the tactics at MU is based on that strong defence. This is their main quality even if sometimes DDG do have to make too many blocks in a game (Arsenal for example). But yes they can defend like during 90 min in the last 30/40m of the ground with success. I even heard it was the only team which never concede more than 2 goals in Europe.
RM isn't MU. They conceded a goal in almost all their big games in CL: Tottenham, Juve, PSG, Bayern, even Dortmund (only 1 clean sheet) + Barca, Atletico, Valencia, Girona etc in la Liga (36 goals conceded in total, more than 1 per game). So maybe Lvp's attack isn't that difficult to nullify but RM isn't impenetrable. And they also lost some balls on their side, after some throw-in for example. And bayern's pressing wasn't that intense...
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Liverpool are not that good with the ball if you defend deep. There midfield has little to no creativity but with space in behind they can play direct into space which suits their forward line perfectly which means in midfield you do not need to be creative, just a dog and have ability to hit space with a pass. Which I’m not damning it works for them so far this season. If Madrid sit deep and hit on counter I think they will win. If they come out and leave behind defence space exposed, like for first goal today I think they will struggle.
Jammy c**ts.
Be Jammy c**ts against Pool too, please.
Be Jammy c**ts against Pool too, please.
If they win it again (I bloody hope so), they'll have won more CLs (7) than league titles (6) in the last 20 years.
Really impressed with Zidane at this point. He is very flexible manager who knows how to win with the quality of the squad at his disposal.