Bayern to beat Real and loose to yet another English side in the final
Real Madrid 2017/18
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
Come on lads, Real Madrid and Ronaldo can definitely do the business against Liverpool. It should be a very exciting match but I'm more concerned about going through Bayern first to begin with.
Liverpool have scored 3 or more goals against everyone they've faced in Europe this year. They must be approaching some kind of record.
I don't think Madrid can withstand that. So I'm hopping on the Bayern bandwagon.
I don't think Madrid can withstand that. So I'm hopping on the Bayern bandwagon.
It's all up to them.
I have no confidence in Bayern in a final vs that Pool team.
I have no confidence in Bayern in a final vs that Pool team.
I think Bayern would be our best bet...their manager would actually think how best to play them.
Y'all in the wrong thread. It'll be Bayern in the final.
Real are shite. We need Bayern.
Real haven't been great in most big games this season (except for against PSG and one Juventus game). I'd back Liverpool against them honestly.
Wouldn't underestimate the fact that Madrid was in three of the four last finals and went on to win every single one of them. Unlike Liverpool. There is just a different mentality to them. Not saying Madrid would put them away easily but wouldn't back them either.
Not sure about Bayern though.
How many big games are there? They've done their job in 3 out of 4 CL games against some of the toughest oppositions around.
How many big games are there? They've done their job in 3 out of 4 CL games against some of the toughest oppositions around.
You see, I'm of the opinion that there are big games that aren't in the CL. I know that for you, the league and cups may as well not exist.
Praying they beat Bayern, because if not, you might as well put Liverpool's name on the trophy now.
They haven’t played Barca for months either... so which are these other games you’re referring to?
They've been great in Champions League I think, except for the ones you mentioned. Especially Ronaldo has been out of this world. Liverpool's defence against Ronaldo, Marcelo, etc, would have a hard time
Liverpool would be a terrible match up for both Madrid and Bayern.
For Madrid I get it but why for Bayern?
They like playing a high line and their intensity has been very low for most of the season. I think Liverpool's press would really trouble them.
Liverpool would obviously be the underdogs anyway, both Madrid and Bayern have less mistakes in them and more experience.
I agree with you.
Both Madrid and Bayern will have to play a pragmatic brand of football to deal with Liverpool, neither is entirely comfortable with that.
In fairness to Zidane his flexibility as a coach is an underrated strength of his. Madrid can, and have, shown a willingness to play on the counter. In a European Cup final though, the pressure on Zidane to go for broke and try and dominate the ball will be huge. Liverpool will love that. They can sit deep and then break at speed with direct passes to their front three.
Bayern will also feel its a little beneath them to sit back and soak up pressure. Heynckes has shown the willingness to do that, he did it the last time he won the European Cup with them in the Barcelona tie. The make up of the Bayern team has changed a lot since then though. Whether or not this Bayern is as capable as the Bayern of Lahm and Schweinsteiger in playing the muscular, quick transition football that won them the Treble is an open question. In that sense Guardiola and Ancelotti have been steps backwards not forward for Bayern. If they try to outplay Liverpool they'll be playing into Klopp's hands.
I agree that Liverpool has advantage over both bayern and madrid. Both Madrid and bayern likes to play with the ball. Liverpool is one of the best sides around for fast break situations and so it plays right in the hands of Liverpool. Sad times.
Of all the games that are played by these teams in a season you'd think the European Cup final would be the one where the balance style-effectiveness is most heavily leaning towards the latter, no?
"Nah, we didn't win in style so this UCL doesn't mean anything", "I'm happy that we adhered to our style even though we lost the UCL" - no Madrid or Bayern supporter ever. There is a case to be made for defensive football not being acceptable in these clubs but I cannot imagine tying that to one single game and be it a UCL final. Even less so if it was deemed the superior strategy to winning that specific game.
Edit: I'm not saying that Bayern or Madrid are going for bus-style tactics but esp. in the case of Madrid I'd like to think that the rationale for not doing so wouldn't be some kind of honor but simply the lack of skills required for executing it (Madrid forwards have a special kind of immunity against defensive work for example).
Some one following how that Bayern team doing? I mean their level? Because I don't trust them beating Liverpool in addition to that Madid knows the final better? As long as I dont want Madrid to win it 3 in a row but feck it anyone but liverpool.
Total confidence (more or less) that if Real face Liverpool in a final they'd beat them, all it takes is Ronaldo to get the games first goal and the game is over
Worth mentioning Heykness may be in for back to back trebles as Bayern manager if Bayern do knock out Real...
Worth mentioning Heykness may be in for back to back trebles as Bayern manager if Bayern do knock out Real...
So you think AS, Marca and all the TV shows will be saying drop Isco, play a deep three man midfield and have Kroos hit long diagonals to Ronaldo to see if someone can get a flick on?
Zidane will be under pressure to play a side that can monopolise possession. Not a side that plays a low block, strangles the game and relies on Ronaldo scoring some magical goal. A boring 1-0 with 40% possession is not what Florentine thinks of as fitting Madrid’s profile.
Domestic games against Atletico and Barcelona. Plus the Copa.
Bingo.
They couldnt even play that way if they wanted to.
We all saw how the players chafed under Mourinho's tenure there when asked to play more conservative.
They won't. But not because it's beneath them or something but because it's not suited to their players. Still they could try it. They've done it against Pep's Bayern in the first of their three recent UCL's albeit it was under Ancelotti and in semis.
I don't know... your post reminds me alot of the state of this forum during their previous European Cup winning campaign. That AC Milan team that came up against Liverpool were so dominant in europe and they couldn't beat Liverpool with three goals up and one half to go so I'd rule nothing out. Some things are just meant to be.
Real Madrid's defence is terrible.
All it needs is a Ramos red card in the second leg as they'd then have to play Nacho or that joker from the youth team who appeared v Juventus.
Don't see how they'd keep out Salah and Mane.
Think Bayern is a little different, they have got Boateng who has pace and mobility to do fine. Their high line would be an issue though.
All it needs is a Ramos red card in the second leg as they'd then have to play Nacho or that joker from the youth team who appeared v Juventus.
Don't see how they'd keep out Salah and Mane.
Think Bayern is a little different, they have got Boateng who has pace and mobility to do fine. Their high line would be an issue though.
They played a conservative style v PSG and Juve at home without the fans revolting?
The winner of Bayern vs Real will win the CL, Liverpool defense and midfield is way too weak to win vs Real or Bayern.
I thought they were mediocre against PSG at home compared to what we have seen from them in recent yeats. PSG just couldn't take advantage.
I meant the players, not fans. I recall reading an article that mentioned how the players hated Mourinho's style of football. I don't think they've gone to that pragmatic kind of play since, even under Ancelotti and Zidane.
I don't know about that. Joses side was a goal scoring juggernaught. It was more about ego clashes and politics rather than pragmatism?
He did play v Barca with a stupidly open midfield until he wised up!
Wouldn't call that match mediocre, the tempo was very high and most teams would have crumbled against either two.
Agreed.
Real's defence is poor and furthermore they don't even try and defend half the time. I think Liverpool v Real would be an absolute bloodbath. Imagine that front 3 of Liverpool's in the space Real would give them? I'd fancy Real to win purely because guys like Lovren, Henderson, Karius and Wijnaldum are shite and would ultimately get destroyed by the quality of Ronaldo, Isco, Asensio et al. That and they're effectively starting the game a goal down if you take the inevitable Ronaldo penalty into account.
Madrid's naivety at the back is there for all to see. Juve game a few weeks ago the latest example but the best example is last year in the Clasico when they were down to 10 men and drawing, that result does them fine, what does Zidane and his team do? Push forward to try and win the match, get caught on the counter and lose with the last kick of the ball.
I think one thing that stood out from when Real played Spurs was that they just couldn't live with the intense pressing and electric tempo Spurs were playing at. I can't think of a team anywhere in the world who press like Liverpool or play at such a tempo.
I think it's baffling how many people are writing off Bayern v Liverpool. Neuer*, Kimmich, Hummels, Boateng, Alaba, Javi Martinez, James Rodriguez, Thiago, Vidal, Muller, Robben, Ribery, Coman, Lewandowski. That's a fantastic side. Jupp is a much more pragmatic coach than Zidane, too.
*could be back for the final.
It'll probably be a Real v Liverpool final just because Ronaldo will do enough to get the job done v Bayern but the complete dismissal of Bayern against L'Pool is a bit much imo.
I could have sworn I read something to that effect! I'll see if I can dig something up.
True that, but Real definitely were better in the CL last season. That game just seemed unusually sloppy from Real.
Like I said, they haven't played Barca since last year. They drew twice with AM, hardly "poor form" in domestic big games in 2018 as you claim.
CDR? Against Leganes was a big game?
I suppose the argument there is that they did not assemble that type of player because they felt playing in a way that would need that profile is beneath them, and chose to focus on developing a pro active playing style that can win against any team. Ego and utter belief in one's ability is a major factor in the success of the likes of Real, their commitment to how they play is a direct contributor to them becoming so good at it. If they start making exceptions because of a certain team or a certain game is different, it goes directly against that commitment which is the very thing that gets them where they are. So the thing for them is not that making adjustments for Liverpool is beneath them, it's the strong belief that if they are faithful to some ideas, they will win much more than they will lose, and that it will be therefore worth it.
They were very pragmatic vs Pep's Bayern(especially in the 1st leg).
Every team is pragmatic. The idea that professionals whose livelihood rely on a result value said result less than an armchair fan is ludicrous. I assume what you mean when say pragmatic is that in their attempt to negate the dangers of the opponent, they commit too much towards that leaving themselves too much to do offensively to be dangerous themselves. Real Madrid have not done that. Sure there were games when they managed different times with different levels of energy and willingness to get forward. But they have not been starting games with the balance significantly tilted towards nullifying over initiative taking.
I meant that specific 1st leg, Ancelotti was clearly pragmatic in his set up.
Bayern had something like 70+% possession at the Bernabeu. When does that ever happen?
I wouldn't say that team under him was a pragmatic team(like Jose's Inter), but that specific game, their set up was pragmatic.