RAWK Goes Into Meltdown (2011/2012)

talking vulture said:
you have to remember that players like likeker & steven left everton because they couldn't play european football. And they were very important players.

I understand everton's bittereness in that respect. But let's not forget something here - they're fecking scousers and it's always someone else's fault.
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:d
 
EricaNo7 said:
you seem to remember things very differently to my Evertonian season ticket holding husband, I'm afraid

although one of his favourite phrases is " kopites are gobshites "
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So what exactly does your 'Evertonian season ticket holding husband' remember then ?

The European ban didn't bother them until their club started to decline, then suddenly, it was a big issue. If his argument is based around 'supposed' letters of hate in The Liverpool Echo, then he really doesn't have much of an argument at all.

I'm sure there was a letter in The Echo saying that Elvis was spotted in St Johns market back in the 80's. Could have been a load of bollocks mind.
 
Talking Vulture said:
You have to remember that players like Likeker & Steven left Everton because they couldn't play European football. And they were very important players.

I understand Everton's bittereness in that respect. But let's not forget something here - they're fecking scousers and it's ALWAYS someone else's fault.
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That would be the same Trevor Steven that left a full 4 years after the ban was put in place. Nothing to do with Everton finishing in 4th, & then in 8th position the 2 seasons after they won the title in 1987. & which European giant did he end up playing for ?..........fecking Rangers.

Gary Lineker actually signed the season the ban was enforced. So he knew he wouldn't be playing in Europe, but he still chose to sign. He played for one season, won nothing, then left for Barcelona. Everton went on to win the league the season after he left.
 
redman5 said:
But the bitterness only manifested itself many years later, when Everton, after a succession of failed managers, who had spent a lot of money on average players, began to struggle to stay in the top flight. There was no animosity 12 months after the ban was enforced, as both sets of fans traveled down to Wembley for the FA Cup final. Everton fans were happy bunnies the year after when they won the league for the 2nd time in 3 years. The ban was hardly ever mentioned. It was a mere inconvenience to most Evertonians.

Let's not forget, Arsenal were also deprived of 2 shots of winning the European Cup during that period, but we don't see them getting all bitter & twisted about it.
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a. I'm not so sure things on Merseyside were as rosey as you claim either, I'm pretty sure there was a level of bitterness if not on the surface, the just slightly bellow it always waiting to come out in the Euro Ban years... But I can understand why Liverpool and Everton came together post Hillsborough. .. that makes sense to me, and is something they (Everton) deserve a great deal of credit for.... for the Record, I have heard plenty of Arsenal supporters bemoan their lack of opportunity to have recorded at least 1 European cup victory. The comparison is questionable as all can admit that there is something very different when it is your crosstown rivals that have brought something like this down upon you.

b. And we are all looking at the benefit of hindsight here... but I'm not sure that we could fully appreciate the impact of the Euro ban back then especially the coming reforms to the structure of the game that were about to hit us in the early 90s. The RAWK poster suggests that both Everton and Liverpool were caught flatfooted as the Premier League era unfolded... and in that regard he is right... But what he is wrong about is just how much of an impact that had Everton FC as a whole... Everton had just come out of having had one of the best sides in their history, the fact that they were never able to see their true promise realised is a bit of a tragedy. Yes there is no guarantee that they would have won the European Cup (though I think even the most die hard LFC fan would acknowledge they would have had a pretty good shot at it) but if they won it, you could very easily argue that it may have been the springboard to even greater success... and as we know at United, success brings with it an added incentive in attracting top talent... top players want to play for clubs who have a shot at winning things. Sadly having been denied the opportunity at glory in their golden period, Everton were on the way down by the time the Premier League came calling... But since I am speculating here its not much of a stetch to suggest that had Everton entered the premier league era as one of the top sides their fate might well be very different.

This is of course all speculation, and there is no guarantee that things would have turned out any different than they did (quick check of the 87 European Cup would see Maradona's Napoli side going out in the first round to Real Madrid while lesser sides advanced)... but I find it absolutely shocking that most LFC supporters will continue to bash Everton as a 2nd rate club, when they played such a large part in shaping the path that the club was to follow.... and then turn around and use the plight of the club as a stick to bash them with.
 
Everton have got a legitimate gripe in terms of missing out on possible European success, but they can't really blame 20 years of financial mismanagement on that alone. They consistently draw big crowds and finish in the top 8, the fact that they have absolutely feck all to spend on building on that foundation suggests pretty colossal financial incompetence on their part. There's no way they should be getting outspent by the likes of Stoke.

In conclusion, Liverpool FC are twats.
 
204Red said:
a. I'm not so sure things on Merseyside were as rosey as you claim either, I'm pretty sure there was a level of bitterness if not on the surface, the just slightly bellow it always waiting to come out in the Euro Ban years... But I can understand why Liverpool and Everton came together post Hillsborough. .. that makes sense to me, and is something they (Everton) deserve a great deal of credit for.... for the Record, I have heard plenty of Arsenal supporters bemoan their lack of opportunity to have recorded at least 1 European cup victory. The comparison is questionable as all can admit that there is something very different when it is your crosstown rivals that have brought something like this down upon you.

b. And we are all looking at the benefit of hindsight here... but I'm not sure that we could fully appreciate the impact of the Euro ban back then especially the coming reforms to the structure of the game that were about to hit us in the early 90s. The RAWK poster suggests that both Everton and Liverpool were caught flatfooted as the Premier League era unfolded... and in that regard he is right... But what he is wrong about is just how much of an impact that had Everton FC as a whole... Everton had just come out of having had one of the best sides in their history, the fact that they were never able to see their true promise realised is a bit of a tragedy. Yes there is no guarantee that they would have won the European Cup (though I think even the most die hard LFC fan would acknowledge they would have had a pretty good shot at it) but if they won it, you could very easily argue that it may have been the springboard to even greater success... and as we know at United, success brings with it an added incentive in attracting top talent... top players want to play for clubs who have a shot at winning things. Sadly having been denied the opportunity at glory in their golden period, Everton were on the way down by the time the Premier League came calling... But since I am speculating here its not much of a stetch to suggest that had Everton entered the premier league era as one of the top sides their fate might well be very different.

This is of course all speculation, and there is no guarantee that things would have turned out any different than they did (quick check of the 87 European Cup would see Maradona's Napoli side going out in the first round to Real Madrid while lesser sides advanced)... but I find it absolutely shocking that most LFC supporters will continue to bash Everton as a 2nd rate club, when they played such a large part in shaping the path that the club was to follow.... and then turn around and use the plight of the club as a stick to bash them with.
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Nottingham Forest won 2 European Cups. Are we responsible for their current plight ?. Or maybe it's because of poor decisions by their club. So why are Everton so different ?

The vast majority of those players who brought success to the club, were still there during their demise. Everton at that time were one of the richest clubs around. European ban, or no European ban, they had everything going for it. But after winning the league in 1987, Everton made a big mistake in not strengthening the side, whereas Dalglish brought in Barnes, Beardsley, & Aldridge. Liverpool got off to a flyer, whilst Everton struggled to keep pace. So yes, maybe you're right. Maybe we do have some responsibility regarding Everton's precarious position. But it's more to do with footballing matters than the silly myths that Evertonian's like to drag out to any tom,dick, or harry who'll be prepared to give them the time of day.
 
redman5 said:
So what exactly does your 'Evertonian season ticket holding husband' remember then ?

The European ban didn't bother them until their club started to decline, then suddenly, it was a big issue. If his argument is based around 'supposed' letters of hate in The Liverpool Echo, then he really doesn't have much of an argument at all.

I'm sure there was a letter in The Echo saying that Elvis was spotted in St Johns market back in the 80's. Could have been a load of bollocks mind.
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was Elvis seen on this bus then?
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kietotheworld said:
True, but to say they would have won it once, and then retained it, is an even more bold prediction.
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They wouldn't have needed to. Winning it once would've given them at least 3 shots at it. It is not as far beyond the realms of possibility as you seem to be suggesting.
 
acnumber9 said:
They wouldn't have needed to. Winning it once would've given them at least 3 shots at it. It is not as far beyond the realms of possibility as you seem to be suggesting.
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They would have needed to have been denied 3 European Cups, as was asserted earlier. It's not impossible, but when people are talking about these hypotheticals they tend to overplay it into these massive game changing scenarios, when it's more likely that they would have gone through the tournament and been knocked out in the Quarter Finals or the Semi Finals or whatever.
 
kietotheworld said:
They would have needed to have been denied 3 European Cups, as was asserted earlier. It's not impossible, but when people are talking about these hypotheticals they tend to overplay it into these massive game changing scenarios, when it's more likely that they would have gone through the tournament and been knocked out in the Quarter Finals or the Semi Finals or whatever.
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They would have at least been given the chance! And also kept players who wanted European football , as well as the revenue
 
Question for you redman - do you think the Liverpool fans calling Everton fans Bitters is a touch ironic, given the former's attitude towards Manchester United?
 
kietotheworld said:
They would have needed to have been denied 3 European Cups, as was asserted earlier. It's not impossible, but when people are talking about these hypotheticals they tend to overplay it into these massive game changing scenarios, when it's more likely that they would have gone through the tournament and been knocked out in the Quarter Finals or the Semi Finals or whatever.
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What makes them getting knocked out in the quarters or semi's more likely? Especially when it was a competition dominated by English sides at the time. Steaua Bucharest, Porto and PSV Eindhoven won in 86,87 and 88. I'm thinking Everton had a better chance than you're portraying.
 
This really is a waste of time, regardless of whos fault it is expecting Liverpool supporters to accept that their club is to blame for ANYTHING ever in the history of the game is an excercise in futility. Until the recent emergence of PeterStorey they led the world in blinkered blindness and ignoring reality.
 
Feeky_Magee said:
Question for you redman - do you think the Liverpool fans calling Everton fans Bitters is a touch ironic, given the former's attitude towards Manchester United?
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Well that's something of a loaded question isn't it ?

Most of the Liverpool fans I mix with are really only concerned with the fortunes of LFC. We generally don't give too much thought to Manchester United until we're actually playing them. Threads like this give the impression that things are worse than they actually are. But it's quite selective, & certainly is not fully representative of the general mindset of the average Liverpool supporter. I dare say if these forums had been about years ago, people on RAWK would have set-up a similar thread - Our rivalry is a simple role reversal of the 70's & 80's.

Everton's bitterness towards us transcends inter-city rivalry. It's been forged on myth, & it has indoctrinated itself into the very fabric of the club. Evertonian babies are born with, 'I hate the redshite', woven into the umbilical cord. The hatred Everton fans show towards us is only justified in their own dark, little world.
 
EricaNo7 said:
Interestingly enough one section of the Heysel entry on Wikipedia states that Everton were aguably the most disadvantaged English team in the aftermath
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...but I didn't think we were allowed to blame Liverpool at all for the events at Heysel. Eg. by referring to the fans there as 'm*rderers'. :angel:
 
redman5 said:
Well that's something of a loaded question isn't it ?

Most of the Liverpool fans I mix with are really only concerned with the fortunes of LFC. We generally don't give too much thought to Manchester United until we're actually playing them. Threads like this give the impression that things are worse than they actually are. But it's quite selective, & certainly is not fully representative of the general mindset of the average Liverpool supporter. I dare say if these forums had been about years ago, people on RAWK would have set-up a similar thread - Our rivalry is a simple role reversal of the 70's & 80's.

Everton's bitterness towards us transcends inter-city rivalry. It's been forged on myth, & it has indoctrinated itself into the very fabric of the club. Evertonian babies are born with, 'I hate the redshite', woven into the umbilical cord. The hatred Everton fans show towards us is only justified in their own dark, little world.
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Do you actually live in liverpool??

I'm Manchester born & Red & I lived in scouseland for a number of years due to work (moved on now, but another story) and I have to say that there are a lot of liverpool fans that have an unhealthy obsession with all things United & not just when it comes round to us meeting in a game, so your few 'friends' are a minority or not scousers.
 
Half of them hate us more than they support their own club.

Liverpool was awash with Barcelona flags last May. Nearly every residential street had at least one, some were lined with them.

Strange behaviour for fans who don't give too much thought to Manchester United until they're actually playing them.

In short, redman is talking total shite, as usual.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Half of them hate us more than they support their own club.

Liverpool was awash with Barcelona flags last May. Nearly every residential street had at least one, some were lined with them.

Strange behaviour for fans who don't give too much thought to Manchester United until they're actually playing them.

In short, redman is talking total shite, as usual.
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Well he's a kopite, therefore ........
 
Kraftwerker said:
Half of them hate us more than they support their own club.

Liverpool was awash with Barcelona flags last May. Nearly every residential street had at least one, some were lined with them.

Strange behaviour for fans who don't give too much thought to Manchester United until they're actually playing them.

In short, redman is talking total shite, as usual.
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:lol::lol::lol:

& the other half of us just laugh at your obsession with everything LFC related.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Half of them hate us more than they support their own club.

Liverpool was awash with Barcelona flags last May. Nearly every residential street had at least one, some were lined with them.Strange behaviour for fans who don't give too much thought to Manchester United until they're actually playing them.

In short, redman is talking total shite, as usual.
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Where on earth did they steal so many Barca flags from?
 
redman5 said:
Over 2,000 posts on Liverpool related threads.....On a Manchester United forum :wenger:

Kinda proves my point really.
We Won It Three Times (Without Killing Anyone) T-Shirt from TShirtsUnited.com
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Even if that were in any way true (it's not), it doesn't make you look any less obsessed. Anyone who spends that much of their life on a rival forum has no place calling others obsessed, because you're pretty much at the top of the tree in that respect.

You're really embarrassing yourself now. Posting articles about a Nigerian minibus driver from the town of Ogbo? Desperate stuff. He was probably wearing a United top that week, and a Chelsea one the next.
 
C'mon, this is supposed to be a lighthearted look at the delusional feckwits on RAWK, lets stop all this you killed so and so yeah well your lot Did this bollocks before the mods are forced to lock what is a very popular thread.

feck this place has gotten bad when IM the voice of reason...........
 
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