RAWK Goes Into Meltdown (2011/2012)

I could bold the hypocritical parts of this next post, but they are as plain as the nose on your face. Everyone, repeat after me:

I
RON
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE



The funny thing about Everton fans, and the mob in general, is that it's always easier to blame someone else for your ills, than actually look inward at yourself.


Over the last 15-20 years, as a club, Everton have been woefully run. From the late 80s/early90s they have gone from a power base in English football, to a mediocre mid table team, and off the pitch, even worse.

Thats not going to make any rabid evertonian take a long hard look at themselves though. Oh no.

It's far easier to blame someone else than admit to your own failings. Instead of looking how Johnson ran them into the ground, or how their current chairman bought them with great words, and a pittance in the bank.


In many ways, Everton have made the same mistakes Liverpool have. From the inception and monopoly of the Premier League, by Sky, Liverpool were left behind by the likes of Man Utd, as they got their act together in financing and redeveloping their stadium to sit more and more people, and therefore make more and more revenue, over many years.
We didn't and were left trailing in Man United's wake.

Everton have been guilty of exactly the same charges, but worse.

Instead of looking after their own lot, and keeping their eye on their own financial situatiion, they have been blinded by jealousy, envy, and loathing of those 'red shite, across the park.

To blame Liverpool for all of their woe's, it suits them to play the vicim, and blame all of their problems on a hate figure, to rally against.

In the late 80s, there wasn't very much between Everton/Liverpool/Man Utd/Leeds et al. Into the early 90s, Man Utd grasped the nettle, and took their financial muscle to new hights. Liverpool did nothing, thinking that the staus quo would never change. Having been top dog for so long, we thought that we were bullet-proof, and nobody could oust us. We were wrong. By doing so, we didn't move forward, but stagnated, and with that stagnation, over time, slowly and surely slipped down the pack.

Everton did exactly the same. But in our case, we always had the confidence that we'd be back their one day, and with the right apointments, won silverware again, and started to drag ourselves out or the mid table mediocrity, and into the top four again.

Everton on the other hand, instead of worrying about their own lot in life, and how to improve it, brooded, and blamed everyone else for their demise.

From 1985 about 1990, there wasn't that much crying foul at Liverpool for ruining their club. Whilst Everton were still in the top eschelons of the football pile, and competing for silverware every season, the debies were still pretty friendly, and not filled with hate.

It was only as the mismanagement of Everton off the field throughout the 90s impacted on the team on the pitch, that the animosity started to grow. As everton stagnated further and further, more and more of the fanbase started throwing rocks at the neighbour over the fence. You see, it was easier to blame the neighbours, other than blame your own family.

From the early 90s onwards, many Everton fans have been slowly blinded by hate, to such an extent that they've almost forgotten who the original culprits in the likes of 'agent' Johnson, are, for their slow demise.

We are now at a point, twenty odd years down the line, that they have believed their own misguided delusions for so long, they cannot now see the truth, as it's been buried in twenty years of brainwashing self flagilation. Moreso now, that many of the fans that sling their hate filled bile at Liverpool and it's fans, were mere toddlers, or not even born at the time when Everton were competing for the league title, year on year, and that bile is a learned experience from older brothers and fathers who went before.

In the future, unfortunatly, it's only going to get worse. As Everton stand still, or go backwards under their current chairman, and owners, more and more, they're going to need a hate figure to blame it all on. But that hate figure, as before will not be of their own family, but the neighbours, as it's always easier to blame somone else than your own.

The current hate filled derbies, unfortunately, are something we're going to have to get used to. In fact, I can see them getting a lot more violent over the coming years, untill a tipping point is reached that the authorities or clubs themselves have to step in, to quell the venom that has been growing over the years.
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Christ, the same post could be changed by removing 'Everton,' inserting 'Liverpool' and changing names, dates and a few sentences.

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alastair said:
Both Liverpool and Everton were left behind when Sky came along. I reckon that's true.
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Everton were a terrific team in 1985 , almost doing the treble but we beat them in the FA cup which was held three days after they had won the Cup Winners Cup . They also would have been in the European cup had it not been for Heysel, so I can see why they are so bitter about it. Unfortunately, they went downhill but who is to say what another good european campaign would have done for them?
 
I don't know how Liverpool supporters can not look the average Everton supporter in the eye and say:

"Sorry... I know we cost you 1 and maybe as many as two or three European Cups... we owe you".

But I don't think I've ever heard that acknowledgement from any Liverpool supporting types... Its like a giant unsaid secret.

That Everton team in the late 80's was a powerhouse... it could be argued that had they been allowed to achieve European glory then that foundation would have enabled them to enter the premier league as one of the main contenders for success. It would have certainly given them a greater platform to attract top talent (the way liverpool fc has always been able to do)... and probably a more solid financial base moving forward into the premier league era.

We always known City supporters as being a bunch of bitters (and they are, small time bitters to be exact)... but their bitterness has no foundation some heinous acts committed by United supporters in the name of our club.

Everton were denied a very legitimate shot at glory buy the actions of Liverpool supporters.... so to attack them as being a 2nd rate club, without making that rather large caveat is highly questionable.
 
It's far from being a certainty that Everton would have won any of those European Cups though. They never managed to retain the League in that period, or even win the FA Cup, there's no guarantee they'd have been able to take one of the two shots they'd have had.
 
kietotheworld said:
It's far from being a certainty that Everton would have won any of those European Cups though. They never managed to retain the League in that period, or even win the FA Cup, there's no guarantee they'd have been able to take one of the two shots they'd have had.
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Fair enough... and they would have had some formidable opponents along the way like Platini's Juventus, Maradona's Napoli side and the AC Milan team of the late 80s... still you'd have to say they would have been pretty significant contenders... especially in the 85-86 season.

But the point is they were denied the chance... and I for one can understand why that would piss them off.

...and to sit and bash them for it, when you played a fairly large part in that outcome is pretty hypocritical
 
kietotheworld said:
It's far from being a certainty that Everton would have won any of those European Cups though. They never managed to retain the League in that period, or even win the FA Cup, there's no guarantee they'd have been able to take one of the two shots they'd have had.
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During that time, the English clubs generally performed very well in Europe. If Everton could take the domestic league by storm that year, there was little reason to believe that they would not have gone on to do very well in the European Cup if given the opportunity.

It's really unfortunate how things unfolded for them. You could almost justify their bitterness.
 
Can't believe how much they rated Lucas. If they want to win the league with him as their first choice midfielder, well, good luck with that
 
reelworld said:
Can't believe how much they rated Lucas. If they want to win the league with him as their first choice midfielder, well, good luck with that
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Well, he is actually good at what he does though to be fair. Their problem lies with the ones that play with him.
 
kietotheworld said:
It's far from being a certainty that Everton would have won any of those European Cups though. They never managed to retain the League in that period, or even win the FA Cup, there's no guarantee they'd have been able to take one of the two shots they'd have had.
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Well they won the league in 85 and 87 and the fa cup in 84. Really they should have also won the league cup in 84 when they were denied a clear penalty. They also only lost the league by one point in 86. Terrific team in those days and I'm sure they would have gone onto even greater things in Europe.
I can understand the bitterness - to be kicked out of Europe because of another club's actions ( especially a rival ) - think how we would have felt!

You may look at Everton today and see an average team with no money, but believe me, they were a GREAT team in the eighties
 
EricaNo7 said:
Well they won the league in 85 and 87 and the fa cup in 84. Really they should have also won the league cup in 84 when they were denied a clear penalty. They also only lost the league by one point in 86. Terrific team in those days and I'm sure they would have gone onto even greater things in Europe.
I can understand the bitterness - to be kicked out of Europe because of another club's actions ( especially a rival ) - think how we would have felt!

You may look at Everton today and see an average team with no money, but believe me, they were a GREAT team in the eighties
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But the bitterness only manifested itself many years later, when Everton, after a succession of failed managers, who had spent a lot of money on average players, began to struggle to stay in the top flight. There was no animosity 12 months after the ban was enforced, as both sets of fans traveled down to Wembley for the FA Cup final. Everton fans were happy bunnies the year after when they won the league for the 2nd time in 3 years. The ban was hardly ever mentioned. It was a mere inconvenience to most Evertonians.

Let's not forget, Arsenal were also deprived of 2 shots of winning the European Cup during that period, but we don't see them getting all bitter & twisted about it.
 
redman5 said:
But the bitterness only manifested itself many years later, when Everton, after a succession of failed managers, who had spent a lot of money on average players, began to struggle to stay in the top flight. There was no animosity 12 months after the ban was enforced, as both sets of fans traveled down to Wembley for the FA Cup final. Everton fans were happy bunnies the year after when they won the league for the 2nd time in 3 years. The ban was hardly ever mentioned. It was a mere inconvenience to most Evertonians.

Let's not forget, Arsenal were also deprived of 2 shots of winning the European Cup during that period, but we don't see them getting all bitter & twisted about it.
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Probably because as you stated yourself...Arsenal have gone on to win trophies, while Everton have gone backwards with no short to medium term prospects of things turning around. They have debt...they have an old, small stadium...little revenue, and no plans or means to change that anytime soon.

When things are good, it's easy(comparatively) to forgive and forget, but when times are tough, everyone looks for people to blame...for Everton that happens to be Liverpool.
 
kietotheworld said:
It's far from being a certainty that Everton would have won any of those European Cups though. They never managed to retain the League in that period, or even win the FA Cup, there's no guarantee they'd have been able to take one of the two shots they'd have had.
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fair enough but you could say the same about Aston Villa.....and that Everton side were a lot better than Villa. We'll never know but they had an excellent chance of winning it in a period of European domination by English clubs.

The other point is that Merseyside derbies weren't all red and blue holding hands as the media and Liverpool fans would have you believe. I know Evertonians that absolutely deny any desire, then or now to be any part of an alliance that the dippers tried to contrive in a period of dominance when they routinely sang "are you watching Manchester". I was also present at the Maine Rd semi between the two and they were all fighting along Gt Westerrn St/Lloyd St before and after. The tv cameras loved to focus on nice little images of red and blue scarves standing together where they could and would caption it by giving us the nauseating and patronising commentires of local comraderie.

Two excellent teams in their day though.
 
redman5 said:
But the bitterness only manifested itself many years later, when Everton, after a succession of failed managers, who had spent a lot of money on average players, began to struggle to stay in the top flight. There was no animosity 12 months after the ban was enforced, as both sets of fans traveled down to Wembley for the FA Cup final. Everton fans were happy bunnies the year after when they won the league for the 2nd time in 3 years. The ban was hardly ever mentioned. It was a mere inconvenience to most Evertonians.

Let's not forget, Arsenal were also deprived of 2 shots of winning the European Cup during that period, but we don't see them getting all bitter & twisted about it.
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Was this about the same time that letters were published in the Liverpool Echo in the Tommy Smith column asking why Evertonians hated you so much?
 
EricaNo7 said:
Was this about the same time that letters were published in the Liverpool Echo in the Tommy Smith column asking why Evertonians hated you so much?
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I certainly don't recall the Liverpool Echo being bombarded with letters from disgruntled Evertonians. Most were too happy celebrating the trophies their successful side were winning during that period - I do recall them standing shoulder to shoulder with us 4 years later at Goodison Park, singing, 'You'll never walk alone', when we played our first match after The Hillsborough tragedy. That's my recollections, of what were, a solid, decent, passionate bunch of supporters. Fans you could have a serious debate with over a pint after a match. People who could give & take a bit of banter. Sadly, most of those people are now gone. They've been engulfed by a tidal wave of bitterness that swept over them quite some time after the European ban was put into place.
 
Neutral said:
Probably because as you stated yourself...Arsenal have gone on to win trophies, while Everton have gone backwards with no short to medium term prospects of things turning around. They have debt...they have an old, small stadium...little revenue, and no plans or means to change that anytime soon.

When things are good, it's easy(comparatively) to forgive and forget, but when times are tough, everyone looks for people to blame...for Everton that happens to be Liverpool.
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I wouldn't argue with that. But it wasn't Liverpool supporters who employed the likes of Mike Walker & Walter Smith. & it wasn't the Liverpool fans who wasted millions of pounds on sub-standard players, which in effect, brought about the demise of a great club.

Everton are where they are because of their own failings. It really is as simple as that. I suspect if it was anyone other than Liverpool supporters who were responsible for the ban, I'd imagine most Evertonians would see where the real blame lies.
 
Regarding Everton, I'm not denying they'd have had a shot in it, I'm aware that the Champions of England were, at the time, often successful in that competition, but to say that Liverpool fans cost Everton at least one, and possibly 2 or 3 European Cups, (especially when they were only preventing from qualifying twice) is pretty presumptuous. I can understand why bitterness would stem from that, but I think the real reason for the bitterness is the fact that Everton have been less successful than Liverpool every season for the last two decades or so.
 
You have to remember that players like Likeker & Steven left Everton because they couldn't play European football. And they were very important players.

I understand Everton's bittereness in that respect. But let's not forget something here - they're fecking scousers and it's ALWAYS someone else's fault.
 
kietotheworld said:
Regarding Everton, I'm not denying they'd have had a shot in it, I'm aware that the Champions of England were, at the time, often successful in that competition, but to say that Liverpool fans cost Everton at least one, and possibly 2 or 3 European Cups, (especially when they were only preventing from qualifying twice) is pretty presumptuous. I can understand why bitterness would stem from that, but I think the real reason for the bitterness is the fact that Everton have been less successful than Liverpool every season for the last two decades or so.
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Had they won it they would've qualified again regardless of league perfromance though.
 
redman5 said:
I certainly don't recall the Liverpool Echo being bombarded with letters from disgruntled Evertonians. Most were too happy celebrating the trophies their successful side were winning during that period - I do recall them standing shoulder to shoulder with us 4 years later at Goodison Park, singing, 'You'll never walk alone', when we played our first match after The Hillsborough tragedy. That's my recollections, of what were, a solid, decent, passionate bunch of supporters. Fans you could have a serious debate with over a pint after a match. People who could give & take a bit of banter. Sadly, most of those people are now gone. They've been engulfed by a tidal wave of bitterness that swept over them quite some time after the European ban was put into place.
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you seem to remember things very differently to my Evertonian season ticket holding husband, I'm afraid

although one of his favourite phrases is " kopites are gobshites "
 
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