Yeah that's a real possibility
Rasmus Højlund | Signed for United
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Yeah that's a real possibility
I disagree, it’s entirely relevant. If we are scouting for prospects, that’s one thing, paying a starter’s fee for a 20 year old unproven player who’s never played in the PL could be anything from Timo Werner to Jozy Altidore. It’s too risky, end of.
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It’s not just Glazers telling us we’ve got no money. Although they’re largely the reason we don’t.
On your point about Chelsea’s “offloading very few players” you might be surprised to find that:
One area where Manchester United have a poor record is player sales, where profits go directly into FFP calcs. Chelsea have generated £5.3m for every £1m of player sales made by #MUFC over last decade
Source Kieran Maguire tweet 4/7/23
They’ve recouped 700m+ compared with about 132m that we have through player sales.
So what's the answer then?
We wait. I think it’s a mistake to view this as “spunking 60m is no big deal because we can just spend more later if it doesn’t work”.
Maybe we play with a false 9. Or We return in January when the new owners are in. Our global network of scouts surely have other names in their lists.
Does Hojland start if we sign him, or is he going to be given time to adapt? Are we coming back for Kane next year?
Think we should get one but still be in for Kane IF he decides to walk away on a free next summer
The deal for Amad Diallo in 2021 was £19m plus £18.2m in add-ons. Diallo was seen as highly talented but needed/needs loans away to get up to speed for the PL. What’s a fair fee for Hojland? £30m plus add ons? Double the Diallo amount at £38m? I don’t know. The figures being quoted are laughable though.
That’s the elephant in the room. We have a £100m+ asset we aren’t using and desperately need - but can’t use and can’t sell. We don’t have the next Rashford or Mason in the pipeline ready to be promoted to the first team. Charlie McNeill and Joe Hugill are only 19 and I’d love to see them on Preseason tour, but they - like Hojland - need to be understudies to someone ready to rock.
You just know other teams in this league would be able to negotiate a better deal than us
People cannot expect Greenwood to be as he was with like what is it at this point, 18 months out of football, he's going to be nowhere near that level.. Even then it's not like he was some prolific scorer even before he was banned
6 goals in 24 games
12 goals in 52 games
I mean, yeah he's talented and maybe he looks better on the pitch but he's hardly more prolific than Hojlund is he? And he's going to be coming back from something serious, with 18 months no football. I don't know what has you all thinking he's going to come back and bang 20/30 goals for us next season if he comes back. Which I hope he doesn't.
It would be absolutely stupid of us to rely on Martial and Greenwood next season to be our main forwards. Ones a complete crock and the other is a complete unknown quantity with zero development during a very critical time where it should happen.
We need to sign somebody for that forward position this summer. I really want us to sign Hojlund, but even if it's not we need somebody.
6 goals in 24 games
12 goals in 52 games
I mean, yeah he's talented and maybe he looks better on the pitch but he's hardly more prolific than Hojlund is he? And he's going to be coming back from something serious, with 18 months no football. I don't know what has you all thinking he's going to come back and bang 20/30 goals for us next season if he comes back. Which I hope he doesn't.
It would be absolutely stupid of us to rely on Martial and Greenwood next season to be our main forwards. Ones a complete crock and the other is a complete unknown quantity with zero development during a very critical time where it should happen.
We need to sign somebody for that forward position this summer. I really want us to sign Hojlund, but even if it's not we need somebody.
Great solution. We don't want to spend 60m euro on someone who ETH thinks he can mould. So we'll buy noone and tell him to wait. ETH's the manager maybe he doesn't want to play a false 9. Wait till January? You mean January when it's notoriously difficult to buy players because everyone is in middle of their campaigns and doesn't want to screw up their season? And who's to say the takeover will even be done by then giving the glacial pace it's moving at.
We talk about city as being the model and better run than us. Would Guardiola of waited if that was the situation presented to him? While he was busy buying and jettisoning shortly after realising they didn't fit any number of defenders for upwards of 50m. The answer is no he wouldn't have waited he'd have probably walked and city wouldn't have had anything like the success they've had with out him. Sure he ended up going without a striker for a season but only because he had the luxury of having a fully functioning side that he felt could cover for the lack of a striker, and likely because he'd had some kind of assurances that after missing out on Kane, they'd make sure they got Haaland.
We've got a great manager, finally. Let's give him what he wants. The market for strikers is lean, so while the price may sting, it's more preferable than tying ETH's hands by not giving him all the tools he needs to keep us competitive. I'm astonished by the people who have very high expectations of our manager to compete against cheating oil clubs and yet at the same time are penny pinching misers who bemoan everytime we don't get a bargain.
Completely agree with this, people moaning at the price are beyond me especially in this market and don't forget the constant suggesting we should do this or that which might be completely outside of the managers plans or player profile that he wants. It's like saying let's not sign Hojlund let's sign Felix on loan! Okay well what if ETH doesn't want Felix or feels like he won't fit into his sytem? If we're in talks with Hojlund or Kolo Muani it's because ETH and the recruitment team want them and feel they can fit into his system and be moulded, I don't give a shit about the price, gamble or not, if Hojlund costs 60 mill Euro's in this market we should be paying it.
You're all eager to say Greenwood is a 100mill asset even before what happened despite the fact he hasn't had a world class season and has proved nothing more than what Hojlund or Kolo Muani have done, most would be absolutely steaming if we sold him for 60mill Euro's mind. We expect clubs we are buying from to accept our valuation of the player on the forum and not their assets valuation and get angry when they don't bend over and take it up the tailpipe. It's a weird attitude
Personally, I think we send Mason on loan -- get his timing, and match fitness etc back. When he comes back we will have a decision to make -- 1 + 1 year left.
If he does well, I have no issues keeping him and hopefully, he has done some self-reflection and growing up by then.
I think the price we pay and sell players is generally diametric to our club's position in terms of success. We have had to overpay for players (both transfer fee and salary) to get them in when we are in dire straits.
Ok, Fergie had paid for some expensive signing -- example: back then the Serie A was flushed with cash like for Veron.
But we always got some premium fees for our outgoings. Other clubs wanted to buy our 'winners' for their influence on their respective clubs eg Newcastle, Everton etc.
The likes of City, and Liverpool are getting top money for their outgoings. But if we track them going forward as they hit their down cycle I bet their outgoings will be much cheaper.
Those goal stats are not relevant -- he was 18 and 19 then. He was on an upward trajectory for sure.
But I agree that he won't be on that same upward path. He needs game time and lots of it. He can't stay at United to get that match rhythm/fitness/sharpness since we can't afford to give him that playing time when we are in a very competitive scenario. Send him to Holland or Portugal.
Then bring him back after a season and evaluate.
If i'm not wrong you wanted people to use mins played for Hojlund as his record was 9 goals in 32 games but you used games played for Greenwood instead of mins.
Greenwood wasn't prolific but you knew he was a special player, he also scored around 17 or 18 goals when he was just 18 and he scored almost all his goals playing as a right winger.
Anyways Greenwood is not the player to rely on this season, like you said he didn't play for 18 months and no one knows how he will recover mentally and physically.
Imo it's not that necessary and that complicated if we want to keep him. It's pretty the same with or even better than a long term injury. In fact it's better than an injury since his body suffer no damage and he actually has a very long rest.
So same with any long term injury, the standard process would be him training and playing for a while with the reserves. If he does well there he'd be reintroduce into the first team and train with them. If he does well enough in training he'd be given some minutes. In fact this summer is pretty perfect for that. Only the off field problems stop us from doing so imo. We send him on loan to another country simply to avoid the spotlight and the noise. I'm pretty sure there would be huge outrages if we reintroduce him into the first team now.
Care to elaborate?
Why aren't we looking at Alvaro morata for the experienced and cheap option which will also give us the upper hand in negotiating for Hojlund
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He is simply miles and miles better than both mate. I haven't seen a hip, powerful shot and sniper like precision like that since RVN. And he's naturally both footed which make things even crazier. He's a fecking rare commodity mate it's as simple as that. He could become even better than RVN imo the only thing he lacked back then was some strength and proper coaching.
I didnt say he wasn’t better talent wise, i just said he hasn’t proved much yet… because the time he should have been doing so he was getting cooked for a poor attitude beforehand and then the club has essentially banned him from playing for reasons we all know. I have my doubts if he will reach the heights he could have now and he looks skinnier than he did back then. For me its irrelevant because to me his sniper shot or rare commodity status has been stained for life and he’s a complete unknown at this point when he’s pushing on nearly 2 years out of the game
I think it would depend on the budget available/remaining for ETH. The luxury option would be to send him abroad and let him maximise his playing time. 20-30 games would be perfect. If he starts scoring tonnes of goals the outrage will simmer when he comes back next season.
Its a sport and not judge & jury here.
If we are skint then we keep him and hope he comes fit. Do a slow intro into games as ETH did with Nashers. So by January/Febuary, he will be fully up & running.
Let's hope he has learnt his lessons vis a vis his poor attitude and attitude towards people in general.
But even a Gooner mate of mine said that it would be a waste of talent .. for England from his perspective.
Because he's terrible
He won’t ever play for England imo, and if that is the case then he’s wastes his own talent. I hope he has learned but i personally don’t care and want it to be at a different club, regardless, back on topic.
Hojlund is my first choice aside from the obvious choices like Osimhen, but we need someone whoever that is regardless
Might as well sign Wout Weghorst then.
People moaning about Hojlund and the asking price should compare his stats to Vlahović, who seems to be considered a € 80-90 million valued played. Very similar in many ways and 3 years older. I am not saying that we wouldn't take a risk on Hojlund, but you cannot really complain about the valuation that Atalanta has put on him.
That's another subject imo we're discussing about their football ability here. Imo Greenwood has proved much more than both Hojlund and Muani. And if you use goals to judge them please do not forget while both Hojlund and Muani played mainly as a centre forward Greenwood played mainly as a winger. Hojlund scored 9 goals last season in the Serie A and how many did Muani scored when he was 19-20 yo?
I really hope it'd be that simple. Tbh I'd doubt if he ever plays for us again. Of course there's a possibility but imo if he does well in his loan we're more likely to sell him than keep him. Imo ETH does want to keep him. Which coach doesn't want a good striker especially now he doesn't even have one and doesn't look like he'd get any soon either. But I don't think ETH would have the final say in this. It'll be the new owner or the Glazers imo.
Let's hope the new owners believe in redemption.
Tbh I don't think those rich people would give a feck about redemption. For them imo it's simply what'd be better for the club commercially and financially. Or if we have new owner they might care a bit about the football side. We all know the Glazers wouldn't give a feck about that.
Greenwood is no doubt a huge talent and if he does well in his loan his value as an asset for the club would be very high. But if we reintroduce him to the first team again after his loan they would have to think about how the media, the fans, the sponsors etc. would react and how much that would affect the club's image. Those would react pretty badly I think. So the most possible outcome imo is they will sell him. That way they'd still get the money from his value without suffering any bad effect commercially.
The only possible scenario that make us to keep him imo is our new #9 sucks badly and it'd be impossible or too costly to replace him.
| Rasmus Højlund | Antony Martial |
| Games played: 32 | Games played: 21 |
| Minutes played: 1832 | Minutes played: 979 |
| Goals: 9 | Goals: 6 |
| Goals from inside the box: 8 | Goals from inside the box: 6 |
| Goals from outside the box: 1 | Goals from outside the box: 0 |
| Headed goals: 0 | Headed goals: 1 |
| Conversion rate: 20,45 % | Conversion rate: 28,57 % |
| Shots on target: 28 | Shots on target: 13 |
| Passes attempted: 424 | Passes attempted: 320 |
It's actually hilarious how Atalanta actually think he's worth any more than 30m.
He'd be another Antony type of purchase probably.
But not with so many injuries and only 20 years old.
Injuries don't matter when the stats are looking at minutes played.
that makes sense and is a good sign, I must say i was never convinced by Vlahovic anyway though. Its so important we nail this position as this the extra goals from a top striker would have covered up the issues at goalkeeper last season, those defeats late in the season at Brighton and West Ham spring to mind.
The more I look at this I see no reason to be excited. I'd honestly rather we brought Ivan Toney and struggled through till January with Rashford, Garnacho and Antony maybe Martial when he's fit.
Our new number 4 :-)
Hopefully they get this done quickly if he is to be the new striker.
Hopefully they get this done quickly if he is to be the new striker.
Get him and Toney in January
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