No sleep until we're done with finding the answer to our striker problems
Rasmus Højlund | Signed for United
- Thread starter Zoo
- Start date
- Status
How much was Alvarez?
£20m/€23m
Officiallyyou do know the shit City is in?
It seems there's always some excuse. Atalanta signed Hojlund for €17m only 10 months ago. It's seems like it's only us who are always late to the party and overpay when it comes to young startlets.
Yeah, but Hojlund isn't as good as Martial was at that age or as talented really.
I dunno. I find these kind of players very hard to guess but leaning towards the "meh" side. Similar to Gaitan, some people rate him, some don't, but you can just buy him for the potential and it'd be a decent deal so long as you don't get ripped off. And then 3 games in you realize if he belongs in Indian Super League.
An exception doesn't make the rule. Anyone could throw back loads of examples to show that's not the norm. Vitor Roque looks to be leaving for in the region of 35+10m, Sesko was 24m, Endrick 37m. The list goes on.
Rooney was a talent that no one can ignore. At todays market he is worth more than 100m. But you cant compare him to Rasmus. Dont get me wrong, I like Rasmus and I love signing young talents to see them mature at the club. But his talent is very raw, he should be a signing like Amad max 40m signing.
Hes a full international and is the leading goal scorer for his country in the qualifiers. Amad has made 2 sub appearances at senior level for Atalanta, the two are not even comparable.
This was if Qatar buy us btw and want to make a statement signing. And ffp/sales allowing of course
What is your criteria? In the season where he was 19 coming 20, Martial scored 12 goals in 48 games for Monaco.
On the other hand Hojlund scored 10 goals in 34 games.
Probably similar
A young Martial was not a center forward though, he predominantly played off the wings.
I’m not saying they should bend over for us, they can ask for whatever they like. I’m just saying I don’t think he’s worth that from what I’ve seen.
Not sure that is quantifiable but then your opinion, what is clear is that Hojlund looks like he can be arsed, a prime Ronaldo with Martial's attitude would be as useful as Phil Jones
The level of talent they showed on the pitch. They both had scored 9 and assisted 4 in the league in those seasons in basically the same minutes. Martial was also slightly younger than Hojlund before his move to United.
In terms of talent, that's debatable. Martial had much better feet and technique. But pace, power and strength count for something too, and Hojlund has those. Plus mentality, which is something Martial has never had.
€40m fixed with €15m in add-ons based on performances seems like the right price for him. He’s very unexposed but has potential so I would say this is fair for all parties.
We're talking about teenager Martial who was arsed back then and carried United's attack when he was only 19.
We need to start dictating terms for all ubs trying to rip us off. One of these 'potentially world class' strikers should be obtainable without ridiculous United tax. None of them are ideal (Muani, Hojlund, Ramos etc.) so we shouldn't be fecked over. If not go in with Rashford and Martial and strengthen elsewhere.
Problem is it is a sellers market unless a club is in financial trouble....as for going with Martial as an option, I would rather play Pelsatri, a kid from the U21s or a traffic cone TBH.... Martial is next to useless, to go into next season relying solely on Rashford again we are not going narrow the gap to Arsenal/City and will probably be caught by others
I would guess only a very few members of the Cafe have watched Denmark enough to have an educated opinion on him as a player...so lets not randomly start branding him "potential world class" until we have seen him play a few more games.
He is a young CF who will most likely be used as backup to Rashford to begin with.
He is a young CF who will most likely be used as backup to Rashford to begin with.
It all depends on his first games. If he impresses, he's our first #9. I'd really like him to come, I think he's a good player with lots of potential.
In 1800mins
Which is equivalent to 20 games played
9 goals in 20 games worth of playing mins, some of them as a late sub when it can be harder to make an impact
At 19/20 years old in a new team/league
I'll take that as promising stats.
For the 'First Day In My Life', we could be 'Guilty' and 'Sail Away'
€40m for a potential world class striker ffs
It's not 2010 anymore
potential world class?
Well that's the idea. We aren't pissing about trying to sign a potentially average striker are we?potential world class?
I still have a niggling suspicion that if we do end up getting Qatar in the coming weeks, they'll give us a statement CF signing la the Kane/Osimhen mould. I think we're haggling over Hojlund to be an understudy for whoever our CF is.
Or it could all go tits up, we still have the parasites in charge come end of the window, we end up signing no one and start with Rashford up top and praying Martial remains fit for more than a few games at a time
Or it could all go tits up, we still have the parasites in charge come end of the window, we end up signing no one and start with Rashford up top and praying Martial remains fit for more than a few games at a time
I was more commenting on getting a profile to set up to Rashford.
On comparing the two Rasmus is better at getting into the right spots, where Kolo has a better first touch and assists more. Rasmus pass completion rate is better than Kolo's though and he does score more per 90, though only slightly. But Rasmuss xg per 90 is far better than Kolo's which fits with the eye test that his in the box movement and positioning is better.
I still have a niggling suspicion that if we do end up getting Qatar in the coming weeks, they'll give us a statement CF signing la the Kane/Osimhen mould. I think we're haggling over Hojlund to be an understudy for whoever our CF is.
Or it could all go tits up, we still have the parasites in charge come end of the window, we end up signing no one and start with Rashford up top and praying Martial remains fit for more than a few games at a time
They will leave but its going to take a long time. Probably 5-6 months more.
huh? Their stats at that age are quite similar?
In fact Martial got 12 goals and assist in his final season in France with 1820 minutes played. Rasmus had 11 goals and assists with 1833 minutes played. They are very close in terms of goals and assists.
Martials first touch was much better, but Højlund is much stronger physically.
He's available, he's not available, united made a bid, united not interested, available for 30m, available for 70m.
Christ this is so dull.
Christ this is so dull.
I still have a niggling suspicion that if we do end up getting Qatar in the coming weeks, they'll give us a statement CF signing la the Kane/Osimhen mould. I think we're haggling over Hojlund to be an understudy for whoever our CF is.
Or it could all go tits up, we still have the parasites in charge come end of the window, we end up signing no one and start with Rashford up top and praying Martial remains fit for more than a few games at a time
Fully expecting the second scenario you wrote. Its like a never ending nightmare.
potential world class?
What's odd about that? You think Ten Hag is aiming to sign a 13 goals a season striker?
is there nothing between potentially average and potentially world class?
I read further down the thread and see that you believe he has world class potential/attributes. I've not seen it/don't believe he has showcased that as of yet. We'll agree to disagree. Please proceed.
Don’t we have friendly relations with Atalanta? We bought Amad from them for a hefty price ffs
Well after that they apparently got the same bloke from Leicester that brokered the Maguire deal.
So I guess he’s probably in meetings showing off how he can get €100m off us.
Yes there are but why do we want someone who is in between? The club clearly feel that he is a potentially top class striker, otherwise we could sign any old striker for a similar fee.is there nothing between potentially average and potentially world class?
Setting up Rashford is a serious bonus, which can't be overlooked. We have a lethal 30 goal-a-season, wide forward. If we have a striker who can't work well with him it's pointless. Ronaldo scored a lot for us in 2021-22, he scored 24 goals with 18 coming in the league. But the fact he sucked up all of Rashford's output meant we were still very poor in attack. We lost Ronaldo and yet we scored more EPL goals (58) compared to the season before (57).
On the bolded, pass completion rate for a striker doesn't mean anything at all. Pointless stat, especially if it's not translating to assists or goal creating actions. RKM simply tries more through balls, which leads to more assists yet lower passing %. None of them is in the team to be a metronome, to recycle the ball. They are strikers, they are there to make things happen. RKM has more assists, more progressive passes, more goal-creating live passes and more shot-creating live passes per 90 than Hojlund. By a 3-to-1 ration no less. He is undisputedly the better passer in every way that matters for a forward.
Also, Hojlund simply doesn't score more per 90. Not in any balanced view. If you take the league alone, or the league and domestic cups then RKM has better return than Hojlund (0.6 vs 0.48 goal per 90). That is the like-for like comparison. RKM's stats are skewed downward by UCL participation. Which is objectively a much harder competition for clubs of Atalanta's or Frankfurt's stature. Atalanta didn't even reach the UCL groups they got knocked out in the qualifiers by Dynamo Kyiv. You can't compare apples with oranges.
It isn't far better. The npXG in the league is 0.40 per 90 for RKM and 0.47 for Hojlund. But yes it is better and it does fit with the eye test of a striker who's got better with in-the-box movement and positioning. I agree.
But when it doesn't translate to more goals for himself or his team-mates, it's the less important stat. RKM scores and assists more per 90. And an all rounder is a better than someone who is only good at 1 thing. If Hojlund goes through a difficult goal scoring patch, he doesn't bring anywhere near as much on the table as RKM. His defensive actions are all lower, his dribbling is worse, his passing is worse, his first touch and back-to-goal play is worse.
EDIT: I expect all these stats to improve for Hojlund with time. He's only 20 after all. But that's why I said we need a player who is ready to lead the line now. Not in 2-3 years. We don't have the luxury of waiting. Hojlund would only make sense as a 2nd striker purchase, not 1st.
- Status