[tomaldinho1]

Not winding you up. You’re simply just arguing something adjacent - the point holds no merit in this discussion. Mind that you asked me what Hojlund did wrong and I’ve explained to you many times what he should have done and why - you then randomly started talking about Bruno being right footed and how that wouldn’t have been an optimal chance for him - which, again, is adjacent and not relevant to what Hojlund should have done and the effect it would have had.



Right, so we went from “lie” to whatever the above is.



There isn’t a tactic. I’ve answered your questions multiple times, you went from “you guys are odd” to “use your noggins” to “you’re bias” to multiple failed attempts at gotcha moments - your frustration is rooted and anchored in that.

Hojlund’s movement was poor. We scored due to Garnacho making the most of his only available option and a great finish by Bruno. Hojlund didn’t intentionally facilitate the move, he didn’t even know where Bruno was as evidenced by how he tried to avoid being hit by the shot - and despite a good initial run he should have checked it at minute mark 0:09 and taken one of two options that would have put him in a much easier to find place for Garnacho, all the while creating space for Bruno behind him. Professional footballers are not infallible (young ones especially so) hence the existence of coaching.

I’ve accepted that your opinion on this doesn’t mirror mine, and I find yours to be poor. You seemingly can’t move on, so now it’s just a tired exercise with a random accusation every other two posts or so.

If this is trolling, congrats, you got me.

• You created a hypothetical scenario re the back post pass and then have become confused by it. That is not my problem.
• Incorrect, what you said re where the players are at the moment in time remains demonstrably a lie. Timestamp away, you can't change the fact that Hojlund moving back across goal would potentially impede Bruno more than where he is. Anyone can go read what you wrote, watch the video and see it is a lie.
• I have zero gotcha moments (but I notice you keep using it after I accused you of doing so which makes me think moreso that you were trying to do that), I just want you to accept that the far post run was a valid option. The fact you cannot do that is hilarious.

You jumped on something wanting to criticise and are demonstrably wrong - we literally scored because of it. You seem to only have the take that Hojlund was completely clueless and basically everyone else made up for his poor run. Keep that opinion if you must, argue it until you are red in the face but I cannot take you seriously. Your points are:

• Body position (subjective) in relation to when Bruno shoots (provably false)
• Your 'coaching' (I don't need to say anything here)
• The fact some other people think as you do (as above)

You still will not simply answer the yes or no questions, so there is no good faith on your side. You are just replying in order to not concede. I am happy to continue this discussion but answer the two questions, copied for your ease again here:

Bruno's chance and goal is inarguably better because he can run onto a shot without the ball being contested (yes/no), the reason he has the space to do so is because the only Arsenal player in a realsitic position to challenge him, the covering CB, has no option but to go to Hojlund (yes/no).

 

[TsuWave]

If this is trolling, congrats, you got me.

• You created a hypothetical scenario re the back post pass and then have become confused by it. That is not my problem.

Babble.

Question: What should Hojlund have done?

Answer: Hojlund should have taken one of these two options. This provides Garnacho with more options - Hojlund and the whole back post area for Bruno

Your babble: Bruno is right footed

Good lord.

• Incorrect, what you said re where the players are at the moment in time remains demonstrably a lie. Timestamp away, you can't change the fact that Hojlund moving back across goal would potentially impede Bruno more than where he is. Anyone can go read what you wrote, watch the video and see it is a lie.

Again, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Took you a whole day to see Hojlund drifting to the furthest post and then shifting his body to avoid being hit by Bruno’s shot in a manner that’s evidently against the narrative you tried to paint. Initially it was “lie” because you couldn’t even recognise it in the video, eventually you did and it was “Ah I now understand what you mean”, now we’re back to some other fabricated nonsense. You just didn’t understand something simple.

You still will not simply answer the yes or no questions, so there is no good faith on your side. You are just replying in order to not concede. I am happy to continue this discussion but answer the two questions, copied for your ease again here:

Bruno's chance and goal is inarguably better because he can run onto a shot without the ball being contested (yes/no), the reason he has the space to do so is because the only Arsenal player in a realsitic position to challenge him, the covering CB, has no option but to go to Hojlund (yes/no).

Hojlund’s movement was poor. We scored due to Garnacho making the most of his only available option and a great finish by Bruno. Hojlund didn’t intentionally facilitate the move, he didn’t even know where Bruno was as evidenced by how he tried to avoid being hit by the shot - and despite a good initial run he should have checked it at minute mark 0:09 and taken one of two options that would have put him in a much easier to find place for Garnacho, all the while creating space for Bruno behind him.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Babble.

Question: What should Hojlund have done?

Answer: Hojlund should have taken one of these two options. This provides Garnacho with more options - Hojlund and the whole back post area for Bruno

Your babble: Bruno is right footed

Good lord.



Again, I don’t know what you’re talking about. Took you a whole day to see Hojlund drifting to the furthest post and then shifting his body to avoid being hit by Bruno’s shot in a manner that’s evidently against the narrative you tried to paint. Initially it was “lie” because you couldn’t even recognise it in the video, eventually you did and it was “Ah I now understand what you mean”, now we’re back to some other fabricated nonsense. You just didn’t understand something simple.



Hojlund’s movement was poor. We scored due to Garnacho making the most of his only available option and a great finish by Bruno. Hojlund didn’t intentionally facilitate the move, he didn’t even know where Bruno was as evidenced by how he tried to avoid being hit by the shot - and despite a good initial run he should have checked it at minute mark 0:09 and taken one of two options that would have put him in a much easier to find place for Garnacho, all the while creating space for Bruno behind him.

All this has been answered, if you can't read/process the information, please go back over previous posts.

Answer the questions please. Yes or No to both. Nothing else. If you can't or won't, don't reply.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Hojlund either left the right movement by not going right or made the right movement by going left. There you are, stand down.

 

[gaffs]

I think it is. When you buy young players, you never know how they turn out. This actually applies not only to young players but to those especially. Which is why it is so important to not overspent there in high pressure situation or to have at least a plan to relieve some of the pressure. I agree with you, Hojlund falls short of expectations unfortunately and I think, we have to do something in terms of striker. I just don't think overspending on a player from a lower league is the way to go. If we don't expect Hojlund to make the step up, let him go to preserve some of the price we paid and re-invest into another striker. I have nothing against it, but some fans on here sound as if we should add another striker to the mix and I think, this wouldn't be a good idea, given that we already have two strikers who are in need for game time.

We spent £70 odd million on him. Sell him at the end of the season and we would be lucky to get half of that.

What would a backup striker cost us? At least £35mil.

I think it would be better to keep him and hope he develops into something.

But I also agree that having Zirkzee, Hojlund and then say Gyökeres would be problematic. 3 into 1 does not go.

 

[marcus agrippa]

He scored a penalty. Otherwise wasnt dangerous at all. Its time we get a ready striker who can score goals.

Zirkzee wasn't dangerous? Did you watch the game?

Twisted up Saliba and Jorginho to release Amad on the counter.

Got a shot off at the edge of the box to bring out a brilliant save from Raya. Holund didn't even manage a shot the entire ninety.

Had a run on the counter and should have played the ball earlier to Amad, who by then had unfortunately strayed offside.

He had a better game than Hojlund.

He changed our game when he came on with Amad. That's just a fact.

Disappointing performance. Team didn't help him launching so many balls vaguely in his direction but the one time he did manage to hold up the ball really stood out as so often he lost possession too easily. Lack of understanding between him and team-mates is a big problem, both inside the penalty area and in the build-up phase.

We weren't launching vague long balls. I find it funny that he always seemed a step behind Saliba. It's almost like they had their timings better than he did. He's always preoccupied by the defender, rather than seizing the initiative by attacking the ball.

It seems to be his main problem he just keeps making the wrong runs and I don't think you can really fix that. Maybe you can but I just think you either have the insight to make the right runs or you don't.

The thing is, though, I've seen him making much better runs before this season. So it's in there somewhere. Loss of confidence? Hiding?

I'm convinced if he was in Havertz place today he would have scored at least 1 and be the hero for them.

Think the theme of this thread is that his movement is unlikely to result in his being in Havertz's position to begin with.

I think Rasmus has much to work on, but there's a lazy narrative here of 'movement' and every time someone tries to show the lack of movement, the example is atrocious. It is annoying to say the least.

The movement thing is valid. Go watch any of our games from when Hojlund and McT were in the same team. I too bought that 'lack of service' line until I started looking at those kind of games closely. McT is a better striker. He has the better instincts and knows where to be!

And a few pages back, I gave you an example from the Liverpool game which you chose to ignore, so ...

 

[The Serpent]

Zirkzee wasn't dangerous? Did you watch the game?

Twisted up Saliba and Jorginho to release Amad on the counter.

Got a shot off at the edge of the box to bring out a brilliant save from Raya. Holund didn't even manage a shot the entire ninety.

Had a run on the counter and should have played the ball earlier to Amad, who by then had unfortunately strayed offside.

He had a better game than Hojlund.

He changed our game when he came on with Amad. That's just a fact.

And the dude has the cheek to be accusing other members of having an agenda

 

[tomaldinho1]

The movement thing is valid. Go watch any of our games from when Hojlund and McT were in the same team. I too bought that 'lack of service' line until I started looking at those kind of games closely. McT is a better striker. He has the better instincts and knows where to be!

And a few pages back, I gave you an example from the Liverpool game which you chose to ignore, so ...

Did I, please put post # here? From what I can see, I replied to you and then you did not respond...I might be wrong, I am asking you to check but I can't see a response.

Might be some egg heading towards your face? Or I will reply when you highlight post #

 

[marcus agrippa]

Did I, please put post # here? From what I can see, I replied to you and then you did not respond...I might be wrong, I am asking you to check but I can't see a response.

Might be some egg heading towards your face? Or I will reply when you highlight post #

Egg? Let's not be childish please. I gave you an instance re: the VVD clearance, and all you did was claim that the snippet was too short to reflect anything, and deflect re: hindsight analysis. I pointed out that the run began well before the action the clip indicated, and that I made the analysis that he should move near post at the time of the play, so no hindsight there.

Look, it's fine that you rate Hojlund. But you can't escape the facts: he doesn't get off enough shots. Even Zirkzee got one off in less time than Hojlund vs Arsenal (he didn't even manage one). Why is that? Could it possibly be because he isn't in the right positions to do that? Could it be that he's too preoccupied by what the defender is doing to take the initiative on the ball? To claim that the 'bad movement' accusation is unjustified when we can see it with our own eyes is laughable frankly. Hell, even Amorim was telling him to curve his runs away from the defender a couple of games ago. And that he takes too many touches. Things we can all literally see.

And as I said, if you like rewatching United games like I do, then watch the ones with both him and McT. It'll put that 'lack of service' line to bed. Was certainly an eyeopener for me.

 

[marcus agrippa]

He's really not. By the eye test he's clearly one of our fastest players (alongside Rashford and Dalot), and from memory last season he said in an interview that he thinks he's the fastest at the club.

The issue is that his movement isn't good enough so he doesn't utilise that speed anywhere near enough. The speed is there though.

I think explosiveness/acceleration to get away from markers is more important. He struggles with that, especially since his game revolves around wrestling. He needs to create separation from his defender and then use his speed. He did it once against Arsenal, so it's possible.

And the dude has the cheek to be accusing other members of having an agenda

It's an attitude I don't understand, re: agendas and player FC. The only dog I got in this fight is United. I don't care about players like that. Do I like some of them? Sure. But the club comes first. Do I want Hojlund to come good? Of course. Do I think he will? No. And I'm stating why we'll probably need to move on. Yet people act like it's personal.

 

[Lyng]

And the dude has the cheek to be accusing other members of having an agenda

your the one accusing people of agendas based on nationality.

 

[Lyng]

Zirkzee wasn't dangerous? Did you watch the game?

Twisted up Saliba and Jorginho to release Amad on the counter.

Got a shot off at the edge of the box to bring out a brilliant save from Raya. Holund didn't even manage a shot the entire ninety.

Had a run on the counter and should have played the ball earlier to Amad, who by then had unfortunately strayed offside.

He had a better game than Hojlund.

He changed our game when he came on with Amad. That's just a fact.



We weren't launching vague long balls. I find it funny that he always seemed a step behind Saliba. It's almost like they had their timings better than he did. He's always preoccupied by the defender, rather than seizing the initiative by attacking the ball.



The thing is, though, I've seen him making much better runs before this season. So it's in there somewhere. Loss of confidence? Hiding?



Think the theme of this thread is that his movement is unlikely to result in his being in Havertz's position to begin with.



The movement thing is valid. Go watch any of our games from when Hojlund and McT were in the same team. I too bought that 'lack of service' line until I started looking at those kind of games closely. McT is a better striker. He has the better instincts and knows where to be!

And a few pages back, I gave you an example from the Liverpool game which you chose to ignore, so ...

Højlund had an awful match so Zirkzee being better was a pretty low bar.

 

[The Serpent]

I think explosiveness/acceleration to get away from markers is more important. He struggles with that, especially since his game revolves around wrestling. He needs to create separation from his defender and then use his speed. He did it once against Arsenal, so it's possible.


It's an attitude I don't understand, re: agendas and player FC. The only dog I got in this fight is United. I don't care about players like that. Do I like some of them? Sure. But the club comes first. Do I want Hojlund to come good? Of course. Do I think he will? No. And I'm stating why we'll probably need to move on. Yet people act like it's personal.

Yep we're on the same page my friend, I actually praised Hojlund for his performance against City, he looked like a striker for once and was doing bits. Then the following game he returned to his usual level. Unfortunately for some this has become Zirkee vs Hojlund battle but it's not even a level playing field considering Zirkee has never been given a run of games, not even been here for a full season, already received stadium abuse and doesn't receive half of the protection and support Hojlund recieves.

I mean there are posters writing full blown final year dissertations on how Hojlund allegedly made a decoy run for Bruno to score even though the guy doesn't even know when to time his own runs to beat the off side trap

 

[tomaldinho1]

Egg? Let's not be childish please. I gave you an instance re: the VVD clearance, and all you did was claim that the snippet was too short to reflect anything, and deflect re: hindsight analysis. I pointed out that the run began well before the action the clip indicated, and that I made the analysis that he should move near post at the time of the play, so no hindsight there.

Look, it's fine that you rate Hojlund. But you can't escape the facts: he doesn't get off enough shots. Even Zirkzee got one off in less time than Hojlund vs Arsenal (he didn't even manage one). Why is that? Could it possibly be because he isn't in the right positions to do that? Could it be that he's too preoccupied by what the defender is doing to take the initiative on the ball? To claim that the 'bad movement' accusation is unjustified when we can see it with our own eyes is laughable frankly. Hell, even Amorim was telling him to curve his runs away from the defender a couple of games ago. And that he takes too many touches. Things we can all literally see.

And as I said, if you like rewatching United games like I do, then watch the ones with both him and McT. It'll put that 'lack of service' line to bed. Was certainly an eyeopener for me.

I personally find accusing people of things they haven't done childish. Call me crazy. No apology?

I rate Hojlund is certain areas - I think his movement is good, his finishing is good and attitude is there. Re Zirkzee getting a shot off, he's coming on against tired players, when Hojlund was subbed on in other games he also looked livelier. They are two very interesting prospects, one much more of a battering ram (Hojlund) and the other a unique mix of size/technique (Zirkzee). As I said to you then if there is a longer clip, I may well change my mind (like why would I care if he made a poor movement or not) I just have never actually seen enough proof it's a thing. I see him make lots of good runs, show for the ball and generally work his CB pair hard throughout a game and then some randomer puts a twitter clip up and says 'look bad movement' and it's literally a clip of him creating space for a goal and it makes me laugh. I can't tell if you are serious with the McT point, he plays a different role and so has completely different challenges to overcome.

For what it's worth, I think he needs to work hard on his touch and mobility, I think he could be leaner which would help him in the air. Same goes for Zirkzee, far too heavy and its visible in how they move.

 

[marcus agrippa]

Yep we're on the same page my friend, I actually praised Hojlund for his performance against City, he looked like a striker for once and was doing bits. Then the following game he returned to his usual level. Unfortunately for some this has become Zirkee vs Hojlund battle but it's not even a level playing field considering Zirkee has never been given a run of games, not even been here for a full season, already received stadium abuse and doesn't receive half of the protection and support Hojlund recieves.

I mean there are posters writing full blown final year dissertations on how Hojlund allegedly made a decoy run for Bruno to score even though the guy doesn't even know when to time his own runs to beat the off side trap

I can only imagine what some of these would be like when we had Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and Solskjaer. Different profiles, different ways to hurt the opposition. United benefits, and that's all that matters.

But I honestly don't see what Hojlund brings. I'm more willing to give Zirkzee time given it's his first season.

I personally find accusing people of things they haven't done childish. Call me crazy. No apology?

I rate Hojlund is certain areas - I think his movement is good, his finishing is good and attitude is there. Re Zirkzee getting a shot off, he's coming on against tired players, when Hojlund was subbed on in other games he also looked livelier. They are two very interesting prospects, one much more of a battering ram (Hojlund) and the other a unique mix of size/technique (Zirkzee). As I said to you then if there is a longer clip, I may well change my mind (like why would I care if he made a poor movement or not) I just have never actually seen enough proof it's a thing. I see him make lots of good runs, show for the ball and generally work his CB pair hard throughout a game and then some randomer puts a twitter clip up and says 'look bad movement' and it's literally a clip of him creating space for a goal and it makes me laugh. I can't tell if you are serious with the McT point, he plays a different role and so has completely different challenges to overcome.

For what it's worth, I think he needs to work hard on his touch and mobility, I think he could be leaner which would help him in the air. Same goes for Zirkzee, far too heavy and its visible in how they move.

Honestly don't know what you're on about, but that's cool.

ETH used McT as a second striker when we were chasing games, or don't you remember?

You watch Hojlund against Liverpool, Arsenal and even the veteran Archie Gray of Tottenham and you conclude that he works his markers? Okay, then. Light work, I guess.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Honestly don't know what you're on about, but that's cool.

ETH used McT as a second striker when we were chasing games, or don't you remember?

You watch Hojlund against Liverpool, Arsenal and even the veteran Archie Gray of Tottenham and you conclude that he works his markers? Okay, then. Light work, I guess.

You said:

And a few pages back, I gave you an example from the Liverpool game which you chose to ignore, so ...

Then got a big yolky egg all over your pantheon when you were proved to be making it up.

ETH used him as a SECOND striker, yes, when we started going direct to chase games. His normal position where he scored more goals from was AM. Neither is a CF, nor is McT a CF. It's not the greatest of points this one. Made worse by, if we use last season, Hojlund was our joint top scorer with Bruno, so clearly he did ok?

 

[Denis79]

Kinda hoping he scores one or two vs Southampton, they are leaking goals and Hojlund does ok against weaker teams. This game will be his chance to get some confidence, I hope he takes it.

 

[RopersReturn]

His confidence is completely shot but with extra training, he’ll improve. He’s a big lad so shouldn’t be easily intimidated throwing himself in for crosses and corners.

 

[marcus agrippa]

You said:

Then got a big yolky egg all over your pantheon when you were proved to be making it up.

ETH used him as a SECOND striker, yes, when we started going direct to chase games. His normal position where he scored more goals from was AM. Neither is a CF, nor is McT a CF. It's not the greatest of points this one. Made worse by, if we use last season, Hojlund was our joint top scorer with Bruno, so clearly he did ok?

What exactly have you proven that I've made up? And what's with the eggs and random mentions of gods and their houses? Make sense!

We are talking about movement. Movement. That specifically, and in the attacking third. Not about goal tally. Please don't move the goalposts. McT highlighted his shortcomings in that area. Last season, Hojlund went through a purple patch where he bagged most of his goals. Thassit. I mean, at some point even ETH realized that it was better to play without him (e.g. the cup final).

Look, I don't care. If he improves, United wins. If he doesn't, he's getting benched or hopefully shipped out so we can get something back before his value depreciates.

 

[RuudTom83]

Needs to score against Southampton to shut a few people up. Europa is back soon as well which is usually a good competition for him.

Get it done Rasmus!