A year in the championship like Amad would do him the world of good. Is there a striker in the league that has worse control than him. If you cut off one of Lukakus legs he'd probably still have better control than Hojlund
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 24
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 1
I don't see it personally, I have seen barely any improvement in the 18months we have had him with lots of game time.
He will be sold next winter for 15m when reject 20m in the summer. Not good enough.
We're not sending Hojlund on loan to the Championship
Christ.We're not sending Hojlund on loan to the Championship
It will never happen because we have no one else but he's not wrong that a loan to a lesser league would do him good.
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We're not sending Hojlund on loan to the Championship
I don't think he would look out of place there and it would be good for his development and less pressure away from being scrutinised here. The championship is very competitive it's not easy just because it's lower than the premiership maybe even tougher because there are hardly any huge chasms between all the teams in terms of quality. There are actually better championship strikers than Hojlund who are plying their trade there who would offer the same stuff if they were here to what he's been delivering for us.
Playing in the championship didn't do Amad any harm, neither the likes of vardy or Gyokeres. We got to get out of the delusion that this guy is anywhere good enough to be playing in the premiership
We're not sending Hojlund on loan to the Championship
Bottom tier premier league team (provided he would play - I’m not actually sure which teams he gets into - possibly only Southampton?) or Germany would be ideal. However, there would be absolutely nothing wrong with sending him to the Championship if those options aren’t available.
I agree we won’t do it, because we paid £70m for him, but it’s exactly what should happen.
Why would Bruno, a right footed player who also isn't that fast, want a back post pass/cross? That's a) a harder ball for Garnacho to play b) a worse angle for a shot and c) on his weaker foot to shoot or he'd have to cut inside to get it onto his right?
I am somewhat lost with how you watch that clip and fail to see how the second CB has to act in order to cover Rasmus? He has had to sprint to come across and ensure Garnacho can't just pass into Rasmus for a one on one, once he has done that Rasmus has two options to either continue far or come near. He chooses far, Bruno gets the space, goal. Had he gone near, we'd hopefully have scored anyway with the same ball but why is one option 'wrong'?
I think Rasmus has much to work on, but there's a lazy narrative here of 'movement' and every time someone tries to show the lack of movement, the example is atrocious. It is annoying to say the least.
He does have some good attributes, the lone striker in Amorin's system doesn't seem to suit him though. I think we need a striker with a lot more mobility.
@harms linked a well written analysis of Hojlund(a few pages back) in which they also find his current movement lacking, interesting read if you want a more in-depth analysis.
Again, I don't know what you're doing with that odd argument about Bruno not being left footed etc. At this point I think you're just replying for replying sake. As a player - you need to provide the man on the ball (Garnacho) the most number of viable options. It just so happens that had Hojlund tried to get himself in the best possible scoring position for himself, that would have had the aforementioned effect - Hojlund in a potential goal scoring position and Bruno in a goal scoring position at the back post. As it played - Garnacho only really had one option - and again Hojlund isn't even aware of Bruno's positioning. You jumped into this conversation asking people to use their noggins, and your big-brained theory is that Hojlund slowly drifted to the back post to make the middle less congested, yet we have him on video shifting his body to said middle because he thinks Bruno is further back (the position he was drifting to). Come on, man.
I don't know what other examples you're referring to, but reading your take on this one - I now suspect said other instances of criticism have more validity to them because your opinion is - in my view - not the best on this. And it doesn't look like we're going to get anywhere - in any case - I replied to your initial post.
Good shout - will read, thank you.
You offered up your opinion on two things he 'should' have done, I replied on both points. How is that replying for the sake of replying? Being left footed or right footed makes a huge difference in how a player shoots, I believe this is not news to you.
You've argued yourself into a cul de sac and instead of just accepting that specific clip isn't a valid example you've come out swinging, fine, it's an online forum, it happens.
Answer these, yes or no:
- The bolded, do you actually believe that? Would you consider the option of a player sacrificing their 'option' to create a better opportunity for someone else i.e. 2 'ok' options vs 1 'good' option.
- You have criticised him for not doing one of two things you think would be 'better'?
- Whilst simultaneously criticising him for doing something that worked by acting like it was pure chance he ended up where he was?
Your point about shifting his body you will need to explain what you mean?
It seems like you feel the need to go after posters as soon as someone disagrees with you, chill mate. I’ve read the article, and it provides a fair assessment that highlights both Hojlund’s strengths and weaknesses. They rightly point out his speed and effectiveness in running the channels, which is something I doubt any serious critic would deny. However, movement is about more than just running into channels.
It discusses how Hojlund has struggles in the Premier League, noting that he’s finding it difficult to adapt. One conclusion as to why he’s generating so few shots is:
"In a difficult period, Højlund appears to have reverted to his comfort runs, comfort channel, and comfort foot, resulting in a predictability that is easy to defend and therefore a sub-standard production of shots."
The article also notes that Hojlund was trained to play in a two-man attack, which explains why he often drifts too far to the left. This tendency makes him more predictable and easier for defenders to handle. The author even suggests that United should consider adopting a 3-5-2 formation to better suit Hojlund’s strengths and help him adapt to his role more effectively.
Reason I said not sure you'd read it is there's multiple parts - not referenced above - that make me think you didn't or maybe just skimmed it. The whole article is about how he needs to shoot more/be more greedy. There are specific parts on his movement you are ignoring/misunderstanding. Him vs Konate/VVD is not about him 'running channels', measuring him vs the Skillcorner data for example also directly contradicts the idea he has poor movement.
The quote you have referenced is a fair opinion, it makes sense and you can see some example of it. I personally think it is easier explained simply by the tactical change this season (look at his heat map last season compared to this one) and the difference in playing with Rashford/Garnacho LW vs the combination of Eth, Ruud, Amorim's system - for reference Gykores is also left side heavy, despite being right footed, so maybe it is something we will see more of with Amorim. We also create more down the left in general and have done for many years, given we don't cross much as a team, you would also surely want your 9 more on that side.
I don’t believe I’m ignoring or misunderstanding anything, but as I said before, let’s agree to disagree. In my view, his lack of shots and involvement in attacks comes down to him rather than other factors, that’s the core of my argument.
It is called confidence, which he lacks at the moment, he has talent, but without confidence that doesn't matter.
People underestimate how much confidence can influence your play and just put it all on "he is terrible" when he showed that he is far from terrible last season.
For a striker, he rarely ever shoots after opening up space.
He scored a cracking goal last season just outside the box. I thought he’d get going after his last goal where he took a touch and shot in the box but looks like he’s regressed abit.
He scored a cracking goal last season just outside the box. I thought he’d get going after his last goal where he took a touch and shot in the box but looks like he’s regressed abit.
No. I legitimately think you've just been replying for replying sake because half of the stuff you say makes no sense to me. i.e your bizarre argumentation regarding Bruno's preferred shooting foot - as if it holds any merit on what's being discussed here and/or even that right footed players getting chances at the back post area is a rare occurrence in football or something. Again, if Hojlund cuts to the nearest post and/or the middle he puts himself in a good goalscoring position whilst ALSO creating space for Bruno at the back - providing Garnacho with options - this isn't a controversial take nor re-invention of the sport. No, I've not argued myself into a cul-de-sac, I answered your replies. I have, at no point, "swung" at you. You've been passive-aggressive - look at how you introduced yourself in this conversation and how you refer to anyone that thinks he didn't have the best movement in the relevant clip - and now seemingly defensive.
Yes, I believe that because it's what I was coached to do. Arbitrarily adding "OK" and "good" qualifiers doesn't actually make those chances so. Players, especially forwards, often make runs that facilitate goalscoring opportunities for other players - I do not believe Hojlund intended so in this case based on the video evidence - and the goal was due to Garnacho making the most of the only option available to him and Bruno finishing in exemplary manner (it was actually not an easy finish).
If you review the video - you'll see that around minute mark 1:19 Hojlund shifts his body to the middle area to allow Bruno's shot to go through but he does so because he thinks Bruno is further to the back (rather than in the middle) as shifting his body the way he does would/could have actually blocked the shot.
If you don't understand how your idea of Hojlund running near post in order to allow:
would lead me to point out he is right footed, doesn't want a ball to the back post (as evidenced by where he runs in real life) then I can't really help you understand it any better. It's an observation of something you said which I would consider easy to follow had the ball gone back post.
The last part is simply false and provably so, the angle behind the ball proves he is nowhere near Bruno's line of sight. He makes a run, stalls it as he's going to go offside then goes again. If you mean when the ball is played way behind him for Bruno to hit, what are you expecting? He what just ignores it and keeps running into stands so TsuWave can clearly see he was aware of a player behind him? This player he's not aware of who is unbelievably vocal and even in his peripheral when the move begins. This part I can't prove but it would seem extremely unlikely he was not aware of Bruno.
As I said, this isn't some godly movement, it's just not something to criticise. It's basic striker movement, pulling near vs far. The video shows inarguably the creation of space for Bruno and a goal, you are saying this happened in spite of Rasmus which I find very unsavoury. It's one thing to have an opinion (as wild as I think it is) on what he should have done, but you are going out of your way to discredit him for doing something that benefitted the team and resulted in a goal.
He's currently a 1 in 3 striker, which for a 21 year old is perfectly reasonable.
The problem is that we are expecting far too much of him, and that his fee was obviously far too much. Look at Liverpool's attacking options in comparison - he just essentially needs help and to have more competition.
It is far too early to write him off - he can certainly contribute to the team positively over the next few years.
The problem is that we are expecting far too much of him, and that his fee was obviously far too much. Look at Liverpool's attacking options in comparison - he just essentially needs help and to have more competition.
It is far too early to write him off - he can certainly contribute to the team positively over the next few years.
Lewandowski playing in the Polish League... Shevchenko is the Ukrainian league... Suarez in Eredivisie... Benzema in Ligue One. That's my point, these players - some of the best CF's of our generation - where not proven commodities i.e. performing and scoring goals consistently in one of the top leagues at 21/22. And yet this seems to be what a lot of people expect.
He's doing OK for where he is in his career, the issue is his form temporarily has dipped because he lacks the experience needed to score goals in spite of the overall team performance in a way that elite CF's often can.
Like I said I get wanting an Osimhen or Gyokeres for that reason because they are likely to play with a level of confidence and thought-process that leads them to be more regularly threat even if the team isn't playing that well, but Hojlund is about where he should be in terms of his overall development and clearly IMO has the level of talent and physical profile that will eventually lead to him being a quality CF in a couple of years time IF he can continue to develop.
He needs to find a league and level which can develop his game (and confidence). He is easy to defend against and seems a little lost. But credit to him, as he does 'run the line' as we used to say, and this makes things a little easier for his team-mates. But as Man Utd we cannot afford to continue with him in the medium/long-term because he hasn't the quality in his game.
A shame, but we can see it. He has youth, power, pace, and should have ambition... should be an absolute nightmare to play against. But he seems quite easy to defend against, and lacks that goalscorers instinct. I wonder what his goal tally was like at Youth level.
A shame, but we can see it. He has youth, power, pace, and should have ambition... should be an absolute nightmare to play against. But he seems quite easy to defend against, and lacks that goalscorers instinct. I wonder what his goal tally was like at Youth level.
He has two goals in the league, with the main bulk coming in the Europa league. He scores against a lower level of opposition, which is at least something but he's not a 1 in 3 striker.
The goal record is the least concerning part about Hojlund.
How does a guy who struggles with the basic technical elements of the game as much as Hojlund evolve into a world class striker?
People can talk about Shevchenko (Scoring hat tricks at the Camp Nou) Lewandowski and co being unproven commodities at the same age, but if you watched those guys play the talent and ability in their game was obvious. Hojlund is an excellent finisher, other than that what high level potential has he shown in his game?
His goal record quite literally says he is..?
Been playing in a largely crap team as well during that time.
Next few months are going to be interesting as we have an easier run on paper. If he still isn’t scoring after that time then fair enough!
I’ve never denied that he has the potential to become a solid Premier League striker, I think he will. I don't think he will reach world-class levels of the players you mentioned, but he’ll certainly be good enough for the league. However, at this point, he’s still far from ready and shouldn’t be starting. We need an experienced player to lead the line, giving him the time and space to develop without the burden of pressure. Right now, making him our main striker isn’t fair to him or the team. We’re not getting the goals we need, and the weight of expectation seems to be holding back his progress.
Bruno being right footed or where he ideally would want a ball has no bearing on the fact that if Hojlund makes the run - as suggested - Garnacho has more options available to him. One being Hojlund and the other being Bruno. I legit don't get what you're talking about. Right footed players get chances in the same area all the time. Players don't get "ideal" chances/as they desire.
Again, I don't know what you're talking about. At no point did I say he was in Bruno's line of sight (??). You suggested he drifts to back post to make the middle less congested, yet, as demonstrated by the video - he shifts his body to the middle when Bruno shoots - I even gave you the timestamps - you can clearly seem him jumping back to the middle as to avoid being hit by the shot but he actually jumps in the direction the ball was shot (despite not being near Bruno's line of sight), which suggests he wasn't aware of Bruno's position and thought Bruno was further back (to where he was drifting) hence jumping in that manner.
You've said a lot of stuff - all of it non-applicable. You initially asked what I thought he did wrong, and I've answered - he should've checked his run at 0:09 and either cut to the middle or near post. I mean the countless people online stating the same aren't crazy - It's stuff you're coached to do. You type "hojlund movement" anywhere and you'll see plenty highlighting the same. For reference, my initial post was made yesterday, but you can see people saying as much like 6 hours ago
Who the feck is cletus solomons?
A random person that just happened to say something I said verbatim hours after I’d said it. Not an authority by any means, like redcafe posters, just a random example that many people see the same thing in the clip.
Funny enough the post engagements of Bruno’s goal clip are filled with similar observations. As previously stated, it isn’t a re-invention of the sport to expect a run that makes Hojlund an option in addition to Bruno for Garnacho.
You created a hypothetical scenario i.e. Rasmus running near post. You then said bruno would have the space at the back post. If a pass comes across goal and a right footed player (who is at the back post with a ball coming from the right) is there, the closer you are to the by line the harder it will be to shoot with your right foot. If you simply mean Hojlund should make a near post run + Bruno should continue on the trajectory he is on, as I said that was an option, even if I think the far post run proved to be better. mentioning all the space at the back post is confusing if you don't actually want to imagine how a right footed player would finish in that scenario.
You said:
Can you rewrite this? Do you mean he runs towards the middle of the box and then continues running to the far post? That is factual. i have no idea what you mean about him shifting his body and it could/would block the shot, he is out of the way BECAUSE he goes far post. He could do a cartwheel for all I care. Near post would bring him back across Bruno's eye line. Far post being 'left hand side' as we are attacking right?
Ah sorry, you should have said, Cletus Solmons and UsmaantalksUnited think he should go near post...the bastions of football analysis have spoken.
Easy way to prove you're not biased. Yes or No question - does Hojlund's movement (even if we go with your unsavoury take that it is complete luck on his part) help create space for Bruno?
Seems more like a tweet that should've appeared in a thread about who is stealing your opinions on the cafe for a few likes on twitter.
How difficult a finish it might be for a right footed player has no bearing on what I'm saying. If Hojlund makes the run as suggested - he's an option, as is Bruno.
I've articulated this as best as I can. Gave you timestamps. The photographic evidence doesn't corroborate your suggestion that Hojlund drifted to where he did to make the middle less congested for Bruno - as it's seen in the video at the timestamp I gave you - Hojlund's movement to avoid being hit by the ball/Bruno's shot - is to actually jump back to the middle. He had no idea where Bruno was
Eh, I don't even know who those people are - it's merely an example among countless people that see the same in that clip. As stated - you typed "Hojlund movement" on most platforms and you'll see plenty of people pointing out the same - as do the "post engagements" in the clips posted here. You also have others saying similar in this thread - and for what is worth I don't much think of anyone here (forum) and in this discussion as a bastion of football analysis. Maybe Pythagoras In boots - he does good work.
No, I don't think Hojlund facilitated the goal, at least not intentionally. Easy way to prove I'm not biased? post history:
It would be so if it was a niche opinion - it isn't.
He will come good, patience.
Like talking to brick wall. Ok forget the far post hypothetical, it is not important in the grand scheme. If you don't get it, you don't get it.
2nd paragraph Is just a lie. Anyone reading this chain can go watch the video and see where Hojlund is, where Bruno is, where the covering CB is. For the avoidance of doubt in case something is lost in translation here, far post = from our attacking perspective left, near post = from our perspective right. Bruno shoots to the NEAR post as we are watching our attack, Hojlund is moving to the FAR post. If a player moving to the FAR post changes direction and then moves back towards the NEAR post, they will be moving across the goal. There would be more chance of a player in the middle of the goal being in the way of Bruno (who bends it round a CB as it is) than one who is continuing to move to the FAR post. None of that is an opinion, that is literally all factual. Had Hojlund run near post we may well still have scored, no one is debating that.
Football analysis is completely subjective, if Alan Shearer said Hojlund had good movement I wouldn't link it as an 'I told you so' I would want to know why. What I don't understand is how you can't accept what he did (running far post) was a good option. No one has said he should not have run near post, he could well have done although I think what he did is better.
Your answer to my question tells me everything I need to know. You're effectively saying if you took Hojlund out of the picture that CB would act in the same way and Bruno would get the same amount of space i.e. the outcome and how it played out would be no different. Not a good look.
You get the odd glimpse of centre-forward play from him. He held the ball up nicely under pressure a couple of times but for a large part of the game, he was a peripheral figure. He needs a partner and he needs balls played into the box where he needs to be.
He was up against the best CB duo of the league, he fought and could have done better but he is pretty young and has time on his side.
I feel the same.
Me: if Hojlund cuts through the middle or to the nearer post - besides being the best movement for his personal chance of scoring it allows Garnacho to have two options as Bruno has the whole back post area for him
You: Why would a right footed player-
Me: players don’t get ideal chances all the time - it doesn’t change the fact he remains an option for Garnacho in a goalscoring position. Right footed players get those all the time
??? Again, don’t know what you’re talking about or what you’re referring to as a lie. It’s in the video - Hojlund drifting to the further post and upon Bruno’s shot his movement is to shift his body/jump to the middle to avoid being hit by the ball as if Bruno’s behind him. He evidently isn’t aware of Bruno’s position
Except I didn’t link it as an “I told you so”. Certainly not as a definitive end of discussion talking point. Throughout our exchange I have not been the one using matter factly language (like saying that’s a “lie” and just babbling randomly)
I linked it to substantiate my assertion that there’s plenty of people seeing the same in the clip and that we can’t all be crazy nor as implied by you “aren’t watching the clip or using their noggins”. I mean, if random people are stating the same thing damn near verbatim, maybe there’s something in it and they’re not just biased drones - again, as suggested by you. My post history does in fact suggest that I like Hojlund and have belief he can come good and isn’t currently working under optimal circumstances. I just think his movement was poor in this instance.
My response to you was that Hojlund didn’t facilitate that goal intentionally. He had poor movement but worked out in the end - but as I previously said to you, in football, just because something results in a goal it doesn’t mean it was the best/most efficient thing/move available. If you read that and what you surmise is “you're effectively saying if you took Hojlund out of the picture that CB would act in the same way” then feck me, I want my mouse clicks and keyboard strokes back.
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I honestly think you're winding me up pretending to not get the right foot/left foot point. Are you serious? You gave a hypothetical situation (a back post pass/cross due to Hojlund running near post), you need to be able to visualise the hypothetical pass arriving at the back post, it's not hard to understand a right footed player coming onto a right to left ball is weaker than doing what Bruno did (and Hojlund obviously knew he would do) which was come inside.
Ok now I understand what you mean re body position, this is even weirder. In order for you to be right, not only does Rasmus not know where Bruno is, he somehow has no idea where he even is on the pitch (he is completely out of the way, he can see the ball, he knows he will not be in the way of anything!) I swear you are having me on here.
No you're just doing the classic tactic of not actually answering the question and giving a caveated response. Only answer yes or no, no frills, simple quick reply to 3 Qs:
Bruno's chance and goal is inarguably better because he can run onto a shot without the ball being contested (yes/no), the reason he has the space to do so is because the only Arsenal player in a realsitic position to challenge him, the covering CB, has no option but to go to Hojlund (yes/no).
Whilst it is possible your pessimistic view on Hojlund not knowing what was going on and bumbling through the move with pure luck is right, it seems much more likely a professional football player would make the very simple decision to run far post in order to make room for his teammate.
We do not have time. Actually time is not on our side. We need someone who will perform yesterday already.
Not winding you up. You’re simply just arguing something adjacent - the point holds no merit in this discussion. Mind that you asked me what Hojlund did wrong and I’ve explained to you many times what he should have done and why - you then randomly started talking about Bruno being right footed and how that wouldn’t have been an optimal chance for him - which, again, is adjacent and not relevant to what Hojlund should have done and the effect it would have had.
Right, so we went from “lie” to whatever the above is.
There isn’t a tactic. I’ve answered your questions multiple times, you went from “you guys are odd” to “use your noggins” to “you’re bias” to multiple failed attempts at gotcha moments - your frustration is rooted and anchored in that.
Hojlund’s movement was poor. We scored due to Garnacho making the most of his only available option and a great finish by Bruno. Hojlund didn’t intentionally facilitate the move, he didn’t even know where Bruno was as evidenced by how he tried to avoid being hit by the shot - and despite a good initial run he should have checked it at minute mark 0:09 and taken one of two options that would have put him in a much easier to find place for Garnacho, all the while creating space for Bruno behind him. Professional footballers are not infallible (young ones especially so) hence the existence of coaching.
I’ve accepted that your opinion on this doesn’t mirror mine, and I find yours to be poor. You seemingly can’t move on, so now it’s just a tired exercise with a random accusation every other two posts or so.