I mean, he scored more goals for us last season than Zirkzee had for Bologna, and currently has more goals than him this season. He should also have multiple assists if not for horrible finishes from other players, so lets not act like he's non league compared to Zirkzee. But at present Zirkzee's general play is better when he is playing well I agree
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 24
- Goals
- 7
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 1
Worth noting too that Zirkzee usually plays best when coming on against tired legs. Zirkzee’s more physical than most will give him credit for. Tall guy at 1.93 nearly the same as Haaland at 1.94.
It's worth noting Zirkee is judged by different standards, he's not even had that many starts and been here for 5 minutes but is expected to carry the team and if he loses the ball in a game, there are cries to sell. Where Hojlund is in his second season and can start games in a row without doing anything and can perform like a donkey game after game and endless bent over excuses will be made blaming his team mates, tactics and age as to why he should be given more time.
I've not seen a more awful striker lead the line for us since a washed up Falcao played for us
I remember them days slippery Falcaõ. Højlund needs to go though there I listed the strikers in the league yesterday that he’s not better than and it’s kind of crazy that we got this guy week in week out in our team to be honest. He got no quality as a player that I can say I rate that with him.
I agree, Hojlund as a footballer is diabolical. He's got no meaningful contribution to the attack. Consider that Haaland was called lower league level by Roy Keane (for his general play) and Hojlund's is even worse.
I agree about the double standard with Zirkzee, but it puts things into perspective even with players like Garnacho. His (Garnacho's) best contribution at the club is still reminiscent statistically of a disinterested Rashford by numbers. So if Rashford isn't good enough (which is correct) then neither is Garnacho, if Napoli offer the 50 million Omar ought not to think twice about green lighting the transaction.
I don't know if it's FIFA stats or football manager that fans are accustomed to, but why so many are sold on these mediocre young players remains a mystery. The legacy of Erik Ten Hag is formulating a team that was abysmal in the attack, Hojlund / Garnacho are the two main culprits.
I often come to defend him, but that was a hard watch. He is fighting not only with opposition CB's, but also with the ball atm.
Because he played in the Europa league and Zikzee didn't. Zikrzee had more goals and assists in the league than Hojlund and continued that for United this season.
Hojlund is in his element playing teams from Turkey or Belgium.
I also cited all the metrics which measure overall performance not just goals and assists. If Hojlund can't even beat him in goals then it's not close since Zirkzee is miles ahead in technical ability.
I gave him 6/10 because I thought it'd be harsh to give a 5 given the effort the whole team put in. But being clinical about it, it was yet another 5/10 individual performance from Rasmus. He's offering us nothing at the moment, an empty shirt up top. A top class striker, or even a half decent striker up front, improves this team by 20 to 30% overnight.
All the newbies out in full forced to shit all over a player.
I really hope Rasmus moves on. He needs to go somewhere where he can be understudy to a great striker.
I really hope Rasmus moves on. He needs to go somewhere where he can be understudy to a great striker.
I think, he wasn't great but I also think, the wrong conclusions are drawn here... What we see with Hojlund is a young player who came with big promise and now has difficulties to realise some of that. It also doesn't help that he has been brought into a high pressure yet dysfunctional team where he is expected to be a big goal source. Next to him, there are failures all along, all players who are expected to contribute fell away, only one that contributes at an expected Level is Bruno. So what we see with Hojlund is the most likely outcome in such situations. It wouldn't be as big of a problem, had we not spent so much money on him. But I want to remember everybody to the summer back then, the general tone around here was, that we have to invest to bring in the best available talent. It was a mistake back then and going for a Gyokeres might end up as issues such as the Hojlund case. We just shouldn't go out of our way for single players at this point. Spread the risk. We aren't at a place, where we have to go for the worlds best because only that helps us out. We simply shouldn't overspend on anybody, simply for the everexisting risk of failures even of the greatest talents and looking at the need all over the team. We have to get good level players on all positions and then build from there.
The decision to add a 2nd young and learning striker for 40 million to the portfolio with the other young and learning striker for 70 million was bad to begin with. It reeks of incompetence in terms of squad composition - and I'd say that completely independent of the actual talent of the players we are talking about here. But the money is now spent - we won't get it back. If we want to get a high caliber striker, we should offload Hojlund because there is no point holding on to such a player when he isn't going to play enough to actually have a chance to realize his potential. The other alternative is to bring in an older striker who is reliable without being a real superstar in the around 40 million bracket to spread the pressure a bit better. Or if the talk about JZ being unhappy are true, offload him and add that money onto the budget for the other striker. I'd still stay clear of going of our way for the current striker of the month and spent ultra money that is then missing at other places.
The decision to add a 2nd young and learning striker for 40 million to the portfolio with the other young and learning striker for 70 million was bad to begin with. It reeks of incompetence in terms of squad composition - and I'd say that completely independent of the actual talent of the players we are talking about here. But the money is now spent - we won't get it back. If we want to get a high caliber striker, we should offload Hojlund because there is no point holding on to such a player when he isn't going to play enough to actually have a chance to realize his potential. The other alternative is to bring in an older striker who is reliable without being a real superstar in the around 40 million bracket to spread the pressure a bit better. Or if the talk about JZ being unhappy are true, offload him and add that money onto the budget for the other striker. I'd still stay clear of going of our way for the current striker of the month and spent ultra money that is then missing at other places.
It is really weird how quick people feel comfortable to write off Zirkzee but yet Hojlunds troubles are blamed on everything else bar Hojlund himself (teammates service, managers telling him to wrestle CBs instead of running channels, etc).
Whoever plays up top instead of Hojlund always has more touches and more shots than Hojlund does, but somehow that is because of the service? As if players don't want to pass to Hojlund but do want to pass to Zirkzee. I want both to succeed but neither are good enough to be our number 1 striker and should be back ups until they develop and prove worthy of such standing.
It is shocking that this is our forward line choice but it is also confusing and shocking to me that people can defend a striker that is clearly so below the required level currently and is just anonymous. The fact that Hojlund's performances are acceptable to, and excused by, many says a lot for how far standards have fallen.
Get this guy in.
You definitely weren't the reading the Hojlund thread last season. I've seen at least one poster in the Zirkzee thread complaining about people talking about Zirkzee the exact same way he was doing in the Hojlund thread. Both players have been poor this season and have areas they need to improve on, but it's not just on them if you watch how we play. Fans of either are far too obsessed with criticising the other.
Im not going to destroy him tonight as i think he worked hard. That said I still don't see him as anywhere near the level we need.
Needs to get into a functioning attacking team on loan. He seems to be getting worse.
The fact people are asking for Zirkzee to start over him says it all really.
Just another in a long line of Ten Hag signings that is going to need to find a new home at some point.
Just another in a long line of Ten Hag signings that is going to need to find a new home at some point.
No.
You can't say Hojlund is in his element playing against teams from Turkey or Belgium as if Zirkzee was banging them in against prime Barcelona week in week out.
11 goals in 34 games in the league for Zirkzee
10 goals in 30 games in the league for Hojlund
I''m agreeing with you here that Zirkzee's general play is better when he plays well, but you're just making shit up here really, Hojlund has more overall goals and scored 1 less in the league last season - in a league that is generally a lot tougher, Zirkzee has found out himself quickly that he needs to up his tempo, aggression and realise he doesn't have as much time on the ball as he thinks. I have some faith he can adapt, but he will never have that pace or power. Whether the club will stick with him or Hojlund I don't know, but at the moment they are both playing substandard to what is required, even if Zirkzee's general play is currently better, or Hojlunds finishing is better.
Honestly if we could merge them together we'd probably have the perfect forward.
Agreed with the last part, if we could just merge them we’d be great
Difference is Garnacho has age on his side compared to Rashford so I can sort of understand why Garnacho is given more leeway than Rashford. But there is no reason for the double standards with Zirkee and Hojund considering Zirkee is a cheap punt and has actually done something meaningful in Seria A winning young player of the year and had a host of teams trying to get him in the summer while we spent 72 million on this guy with no competition for his signature, other than a rumoured PSG interest off the back of 9 goals for Atalanta, and wasn't pulling up trees for Copenhagen who didn't put up any fight to sell him.
There is nothing from Hojlund on or off the pitch that justifies him being here other than he looks the part of a what you'd like your no 9 to look like. Big , menacing figure who runs around and angry looking which is why I think people unconsciously believe he will suddenly come good one day ignoring all the evidence of him lacking all the essential ingredients of being a top centre forward required to lead the line for even a mid table club
I just feel it’s unfair on him that he’s our starting striker, he should be a backup option and gradually integrated, the same as Yoro.
His movement is so bizarre here - why is he getting behind the furthest defender instead of moving in front of him/getting in the middle?
Ecstatic about the win, just dumbfounded about the opinion is all.
Yeah don't want to pick on him too much for specific moments but that sort of run is far too common for him unfortunately. Stay in between the 2 CBs, instead he's basically eliminating himself as an option to receive a pass. Just hides behind defenders to receive passes, long balls or for chances and that's why he looks starved of service. He's actively making it more difficult for our attackers to pick him out
I really feel like strikers like him are pretty common to find throughout Europe: raw young striker who's quick and strong with terrible technique and needs to refine his instincts in the final third.
His finishing is his only decently unique attribute because I do think he has a good variety of finishes in his bag, but i can find a million other strikers to wrestle with CB's and run channels with poor technique. Antonio made a career of it at West Ham
His finishing is his only decently unique attribute because I do think he has a good variety of finishes in his bag, but i can find a million other strikers to wrestle with CB's and run channels with poor technique. Antonio made a career of it at West Ham
This is not quite accurate surely? Hojlund and Zirkzee in the same league before they left for United had similar output with the latter (I think) showing more to his general game and better assists.
In his first PL year, Hojlund was given many many chances and started a lot of games, he wasn't in and out like Zirkzee is.
In spite of this, Zirkzee has done OK just like Hojlund did OK the previous year. It's very clear from the eye test of holding up the ball and knitting play together that Zirkzee is more comfortable than Hojlund. Hojlund looks a more lethal finisher but almost always has the ball trapped under his feet, needing too many touches to release in buildups. He also makes poor runs in the box, almost always has the wrong decision in his head. Zirkzee is smarter and hangs back a bit, which works better
I want both to do well but I cant see Hojlund as a ball carrying striker, who can drop deep to knit play. Zirkzee can and that's why there's more value add for me.
It seems to be his main problem he just keeps making the wrong runs and I don't think you can really fix that. Maybe you can but I just think you either have the insight to make the right runs or you don't.
I think you are selling Antonio short, the guy could trap a ball and was very useful aerially and would be a constant nuisance all game for the opposition.
Respectable response, and good points to be fair.
If I were to give my opinion on who I can see having more of a future here, it's Hojlund. They are not too far apart in age, but I feel that when I see the traits and strengths they currently have now, that Hojlund can become the better player out of the two. I also cannot see where both compete in the same position and Zirkzee comes out as the preferred striker?
That being said if money was an option to spend big I would opt for a proven goalscorer for the Amorim era
Meh, he was a bustling athletic 1 in 4 PL striker who'd put himself about and run channels. Definitely better aerially for sure, but my point is it's not hard to find those types of profiles. People keep wanting Hojlund to "develop" but I don't think he has enough "developmental qualities" for it to be worth continuously giving him huge minutes. He's not going to suddenly refine his touch and technique, or start winning a bunch of headers. Best you can hope for is he actually figures out how to move like a striker to get on to more service in the box but even then is it worth the extra 5 goals or so?
Fixed!
Won us the game today with a goal
Decided not to read the sentence after.
There is no sentence after
I really like Rasmus. But he’s not great is he? Needs to do more.
He's got a lot developing and learning to do, hence why we need to bring in a top striker
Again not exactly blown away by him. People say he’s not a prolific goalscorer, fine… but even his general all round play is pretty poor. He couldn’t hold the ball up today.
I feel for him playing the graveyard shift tonight however I do agree he needs to do more. The problem we have is neither striker is good enough to start and they only look good coming on as a sub.
You can really see how Hojlund has declined since last year it's a shame. I really want him to get a start against Southampton but I feel ZZ will get the nod. He works his socks off and gets very little return.
Hopefully as our confidence grows he can carve out more chances. I'm convinced if he was in Havertz place today he would have scored at least 1 and be the hero for them.
You can really see how Hojlund has declined since last year it's a shame. I really want him to get a start against Southampton but I feel ZZ will get the nod. He works his socks off and gets very little return.
Hopefully as our confidence grows he can carve out more chances. I'm convinced if he was in Havertz place today he would have scored at least 1 and be the hero for them.
The only one who got away with one with regards to the ref. Elbowed Saliba in the chops.
I’m happy to trust the manager and give both him and Zirkzee time. This season is a write off anyway so it’s the right time for our players to learn. There will be bad games along the way and that’s to be expected. If they’re not ready we can bring in one more.