[RedRocket9908]

You might not be the best judge to be fair…

You dont need to be a good judge to see how a player is completely out of his depth, especially when he goes missing against a small Greek side in Europe's secondary competition

 

[klayton88]

My scouting opinion is that he is definitely a dud and won't make it here. There's a few lads in the youth setup that already look more natural strikers and make better runs. Scott Mctomminay got on the end of about five last season that Hojlund was just strolling towards. He doesn't put himself in the positions, it's not about service. Amad and Garnacho provide lots of service from wide, Bruno from deep, it's just Hojlund is about five yards from where you'd expect him.

 

[Rodgerzzz]

I think his inability to keep hold of a ball played into his feet is a real hinderance on our entire attack, nothing sticks. You can't use him as the out ball transitioning into attack because 9 times out of 10 he struggles to control the ball to lay it off and the ball gets turned over again. It's a bit worrying.

 

[Mike Smalling]

It’s why Viktor should be target #1 this summer for us really (barring Amorim developing Hojlunds game significantly in that last half of the season)

I don't think we should expect any individual players game to be developed significantly in the short term, but I do hope that Amorim can "unlock" some players and get them to perform better as a collective. Especially in offense, our players have a tendency to make each other look worse by playing slow and disjointed football.

 

[Plant0x84]

You dont need to be a good judge to see how a player is completely out of his depth, especially when he goes missing against a small Greek side in Europe's secondary competition

He’s a kid. Of course he’s out of his depth. The blame lies with our previous manager and hierarchy who have put him in this position, no the player who never does anything but his best.

 

[arthurka]

Sorry he was poor in a very poor team. He will need to do a lot better if he wants to play here.

 

[Aresma7]

Was completely out of the game tonight. Rasmus needs to be coached and maybe Amorim can make him play a little more fiercely. He has the attributes but I think he’s not there mentally, bloke is too soft.

 

[aeh1991]

People saying we don't need to splash money on Gyokeres because we have Hojlund.. Wake up!

 

[Plant0x84]

People saying we don't need to splash money on Gyokeres because we have Hojlund.. Wake up!

Likewise people who think we can solve every problem by splashing the cash. We can’t.

 

[aeh1991]

Likewise people who think we can solve every problem by splashing the cash. We can’t.

We won't, but getting a starting CF who can actually score regularly would be a start. Gyokeres in his current form is arguably a top 3 center forward right now.

 

[saik]

People will keep saying give him time. He's been here for well over a year and it still looks the fundamentals of football elude him.

Passing - I can't even evaluate it because I can barely recall any instances of him picking out nice passes.

Runs/movement - Very poor for a striker.

Finishing - Average.

Pace - He's fast but not the good kind of fast. He needs acres of field to run into to hit top speed. We don't/cannot exploit that.

Hold up play - It's crap. People think it's good because he twerks into defenders and occasionally gets a free kick for it. Hold up play is receiving the ball, laying it off or turning with it and bringing others into play. He rarely does this.

He's a poor player. Yes, yes, it's very sad because he's young and seems like a nice lad who tries hard but we can't be persisting with a striker like this for the coming years.

Last throw of the dice is hoping Amorim can work wonders with him. He's big, blonde and Nordic like Gyokeres so fingers crossed.

His finishing might be his best attribute, not sure how you can call it average. His conversion rate is among the best. His problem all along has been getting involved in the game and getting on the end of chances.

Hold up play is average to good. Not crap. He's inconsistent at it. Some games he looks awesome at it, other games not so much.

 

[Robertd0803]

He constantly seems to be in the wrong place and seems to be a thing with him. Hope Im wrong but really have serious doubts about him by now, both fitness and development wise.

 

[Mike Smalling]

His finishing might be his best attribute, not sure how you can call it average. His conversion rate is among the best. His problem all along has been getting involved in the game and getting on the end of chances.

Hold up play is average to good. Not crap. He's inconsistent at it. Some games he looks awesome at it, other games not so much.

Agree on the finishing part, but the hold-up play is a real concern. Today he was up against defenders from the Greek league and didn’t do well against them. His technique lets him down so often.

 

[saik]

Utterly pathetic tonight and that was against a Greek side who would be about Championship level. Same inconsistent shit from him. That Brentford game looks ages ago. He can't keep coasting through games like this.

Saying that I'd like to see how Amorim can change his game looking at what he did with Gyokeres before thinking about a replacement. There's lot of raw ingredients there to work with and any coach worth his salt should be able to bring it out.

 

[AndyMUFC]

He was poor tonight. I've got sympathy for him when it comes to the lack of chances we create for a centre forward but he can definitely do a bit more, especially when it comes to holding the ball up.

He was a bit better with it at the weekend but tonight absolutely nothing stuck.

 

[saik]

Agree on the finishing part, but the hold-up play is a real concern. Today he was up against defenders from the Greek league and didn’t do well against them. His technique lets him down so often.

Yea, that's why I said it's inconsistent. Some games his hold up play is real good and then there are games like today where you question everything about him.

 

[bosnian_red]

Keep saying it, but any attacker who you think can become something big... You really expect them to have some games where they show *it* and just run the opponent ragged. I don't think he's done it ever. But at the same time, you look at Gyokeres and he was doing nothing at his age and they are relatively similar players so who knows.

 

[Lyng]

He was abysmal tonight. I hope Amorim can reverse the regression that has happened under Ten Hag.

 

[Frank Grimes]

We bought a 30m player for more than twice that. He's never going to be an elite striker that much is obvious even now. He needs to improve on his current level though.

 

[Vidooq]

How is he managing to take himself out of the game so much? And when he has the ball, not sharp enough.

 

[Eagle_eye]

The number 9 position is becoming more and more concerning.. Hojlund and Zirzkee might become good in the future, but we need a reliable striker for now, unless Amorim can have an immediate impact on our front men.

 

[Rozay]

Terrible stuff.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yet people think the starting CF is locked down with him

 

[L1nk]

Gyokeres' strengths are running into channels, running onto the end of balls and his pace/finishing. He's obviously more accomplished than Hojlund at the moment being 5 years older, but people here really need to wake up and realise even if we bought Gyokeres right now, he would look ass in our current setup because our current setup is all based around sacrificing the forward player to make room for the wingers.

Tonight obviously wasn't his best, but if you buy a striker who's hold up play is not one of his strong points, same as Gyokeres by the way, and expect him to play that role all the time what do people honestly think is going to happen? Can he do it? Yes. Consistently well? No. Why? Because that's not his strengths and we are not playing to his strengths. I can count on one hand tonight, again, the amount of times he's making runs and nobody bothers to pass, it's very easy to see how we play, the ball always ends up to our wide players who either elect to to cut inside and shoot or they wait to long to cross into the middle at which point Hojlund has already made his run and had to check back because the ball is coming across too late.

Everytime he does get a pass he's surrounded by like 2-3 players with no United player around to help him, so genuinely what is he supposed to do exactly? The reason we've been absolutely shite at scoring is because our entire system is built around getting most of our goals from our 2 wide players, who haven't aren't exactly prolific except for Rashford who seems to be on a downward spiral again. This is why you don't see Hojlund running channels or getting onto the end of through balls very often, if ever, because that's not how the team is set up to play, instead its quick ball out to a wide player, cut inside, shoot 9 times out of 10.

I'm still not willing to judge this guy until we get Amorim in, who sets a system up for his striker upfront, that's why you see Gyokeres scoring a lot of goals, it's not because he's absolutely world class and can do everything on his own (though he obviously is good) it's because the team is set up to service this guy as much as possible and play to Gyokeres strengths, ones that are in the vein of Hojlund. Now if Hojlund flops after Amorim comes in when the system plays to his strengths then of course we move on and look for other options, but you people need to realise it isn't as simple as take one player out and plug in another like it will immediately fix just how dogshit we are set up at the front of the pitch and have been ever since ETH came in

 

[lex talionis]

Never say never about a 21 year old footballer, but Rasmus has a long road ahead of him to become an elite striker. What I see he lacks above all is anticipating where the opportunities may arise.

 

[daba]

He’s shown he can do it against Brentford but the drop off when he’s bad is big and rather detrimental to the team. He’s a young striker who’s learning his trade, and we really should have bought either Guirassy or Toney in the summer as an older head who can take the pressure off him and maybe learn a thing or two from, whether that be hold up play, link play or box movement. Zirkzee was the wrong ST signing for us in this moment, for a multitude of reasons, but I won’t say anymore on that in this thread.

The talent is there with Rasmus but he needs the time and support to develop properly. No other top top striker such as your Kanes and Lewandowskis (which tbf is the level we should expect for him to reach given how much we paid) were anywhere near the finished article at his age, Haaland is the rare exception.

He needs to do better for sure, but we also need to manage him better.

 

[Tony247]

Gyokeres' strengths are running into channels, running onto the end of balls and his pace/finishing. He's obviously more accomplished than Hojlund at the moment being 5 years older, but people here really need to wake up and realise even if we bought Gyokeres right now, he would look ass in our current setup because our current setup is all based around sacrificing the forward player to make room for the wingers.

Tonight obviously wasn't his best, but if you buy a striker who's hold up play is not one of his strong points, same as Gyokeres by the way, and expect him to play that role all the time what do people honestly think is going to happen? Can he do it? Yes. Consistently well? No. Why? Because that's not his strengths and we are not playing to his strengths. I can count on one hand tonight, again, the amount of times he's making runs and nobody bothers to pass, it's very easy to see how we play, the ball always ends up to our wide players who either elect to to cut inside and shoot or they wait to long to cross into the middle at which point Hojlund has already made his run and had to check back because the ball is coming across too late.

Everytime he does get a pass he's surrounded by like 2-3 players with no United player around to help him, so genuinely what is he supposed to do exactly? The reason we've been absolutely shite at scoring is because our entire system is built around getting most of our goals from our 2 wide players, who haven't aren't exactly prolific except for Rashford who seems to be on a downward spiral again. This is why you don't see Hojlund running channels or getting onto the end of through balls very often, if ever, because that's not how the team is set up to play, instead its quick ball out to a wide player, cut inside, shoot 9 times out of 10.

I'm still not willing to judge this guy until we get Amorim in, who sets a system up for his striker upfront, that's why you see Gyokeres scoring a lot of goals, it's not because he's absolutely world class and can do everything on his own (though he obviously is good) it's because the team is set up to service this guy as much as possible and play to Gyokeres strengths, ones that are in the vein of Hojlund. Now if Hojlund flops after Amorim comes in when the system plays to his strengths then of course we move on and look for other options, but you people need to realise it isn't as simple as take one player out and plug in another like it will immediately fix just how dogshit we are set up at the front of the pitch and have been ever since ETH came in

Wingers don't pass to him because they can't. I can't count in my head when Hojlund was in right place or even make right runs. A good striker gets attracted to the ball like magnet. He isn't, at least for now. Miracles do happen though. But that's the only thing we can hope for. A miracle. Otherwise money down the drain.

 

[zenith]

He seems like a very good back up striker but my god how we need a proper goal scorer upfront. Beyond a point it does not seem like a chance creation issue either as elite strikers find a way to score from half chances even during off days and that's why they are worth their weight in gold.

 

[Insanity]

What the feck is that? Absolutely appalling. Ban worthy stuff.

Rubes?
Ben?
Amo?
Amore?
Rim rim?

 

[Grand Vizier]

I wonder if people watch his movement at all in a game. It's atrocious. How can you give service to someone who is never making the right runs? He's consistently in the wrong positions. I said it in the match thread but Casemiro was making better runs off the shoulder than our striker.

Exactly, people keep going on about him getting no service but the fact is he is never in the right places to get service

Do you close your eyes when you watch the game? Did he or did he not make an excellent run/sprint for the Amad chance who shot himself? If Amad had passed, it would have been an easy tap in and a goal. How is that never making a good run, consistently in the wrong position or never in the right place? If a striker is in position for a tap in assuming he gets passed the ball, that is by definition being in the right place.

Not a good game at all, but criticising for the wrong things makes you look so silly.

 

[Fortitude]

I wonder if people watch his movement at all in a game. It's atrocious. How can you give service to someone who is never making the right runs? He's consistently in the wrong positions. I said it in the match thread but Casemiro was making better runs off the shoulder than our striker.

I don't like to comment negatively on Hojlund because I have maintained from the beginning that it was terrible, terrible recruitment to have him lead the line and be the main guy at his age and level, but what is undeniable is that his reading of the game and play is actually shockingly bad.

He plays with no guile, craft or thought. Strikers, more so than anyone else on the pitch are supposed to be full of cunning, awareness and opportunism with the first steps in their head and everything else falling in line with that - it should be a doddle for a clever striker to bamboozle this level of opponent with his movement - either away or toward the ball - and look classes above just with the cuteness of his game. What we see with Hojlund is a player who is not able to outfox CB's, which is why he is so often pointlessly tussling with them, rather than leaving them in his vapour trail, distressed and het up that they can't get a read on him. It's a very bad sign when a striker is not able to shake low calibre defenders off literally at will - Rasmus should not look mostly lost and anonymous vs this level of opponent.

To compound the above, technically he is wildly erratic and unreliable in his: first touch, hold up play, passing and use of his body (shaping), which is going to play a hand in why others are wary of instinctively passing to him; if they don't believe he will have the ball stick, or use it well enough to be worthwhile using him in plays, they obviously will pick another option or simply go it themselves.

I personally think leading the line for us is really affecting him and what we're seeing is a poor reflection of the player due to his distressed state. When players/humans aren't doing so well, they seek familiarity and comfort and typically revert to type, and that'll be when coaching and drills go out the window. I reckon the kid is stuck in a terrible cycle there and it is getting to him.

Amorim is going to have to look at the player, his pros and cons, but more importantly, his psyche and what makes him tick and try and work with him from there to stop him doing what comes more naturally, which is being physical for the sake of it, rather than weaponising and understanding his own assets and advantages. His attributes need to be honed, sharpened and then fine tuned. Instead, what we're seeing is actually regressive - he's worse than the player he came here as. That, imo, is down to having a role at Atalanta that he understood and was fine with alongside teammates that understood and catered to his game. Here? He's in a much tougher league alongside players who don't cater to him in the slightest and it is resulting in the freestyle, poor improvisational mess that we're seeing. Some players do better without restriction because of their football intelligence, others, need the strictures and confines of the system to automate things and have them play a defined role in a predefined way... Hojlund is not the former and it is hindering his game and development that we don't have a way of playing that is going to extract the good and leave the bad to one side in his game.

He's just so raw, much rawer than should be signed unless talking about prodigious talent (like a young Martial) and he needs games away from the spotlight to develop and improve in a consummate way, where he is not micro analysed and under the intense burn of our spotlight for every game he plays. From the very start, he should have had a veteran striker ahead of him taking on the burden and brunt of goalscoring pressure and responsibility, with him getting the last 20 or so minutes of games - that, or a loan. It's simply ridiculous that we're in a predicament he is the only lead-the-line striker at the club. Even worse, we then buy in a not #9 to share the load with him... just shocking all round. Amorim is going to show some serious credentials if he can get a proper tune out of the player Hojlund is at this stage in his development. The kid is a 100m behind the 100m starting in line in a race where his foot needs to be on that starting line as a default. The champions of Greece are around middling Championship level, without insult, and it is games like those where he should be showing he's head and shoulders above in every key aspect, so these games are more concerning than PL ones because the PL won't give as many chances to show what kind of player you are if you're raw where games like this should.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

People only talk about potential because he simply doesnt deliver enough.

Considering how Rashford broke through, it really puts context in to Hojlunds potential abilities.

I wouldnt be surprised with Amorim using Rashford as one of his strikers after giving hojlund a chance because even Rashford is a better CF than Hojlund now that Rashford has lost some pace to play out wide.

Purely bought by a hattrick against Finland & a good shot per goal ratio thats only there because he takes very few shots per game as a striker that struggles to get in to the game.

 

[FrankWhite]

Gyokeres' strengths are running into channels, running onto the end of balls and his pace/finishing. He's obviously more accomplished than Hojlund at the moment being 5 years older, but people here really need to wake up and realise even if we bought Gyokeres right now, he would look ass in our current setup because our current setup is all based around sacrificing the forward player to make room for the wingers.

Tonight obviously wasn't his best, but if you buy a striker who's hold up play is not one of his strong points, same as Gyokeres by the way, and expect him to play that role all the time what do people honestly think is going to happen? Can he do it? Yes. Consistently well? No. Why? Because that's not his strengths and we are not playing to his strengths. I can count on one hand tonight, again, the amount of times he's making runs and nobody bothers to pass, it's very easy to see how we play, the ball always ends up to our wide players who either elect to to cut inside and shoot or they wait to long to cross into the middle at which point Hojlund has already made his run and had to check back because the ball is coming across too late.

Everytime he does get a pass he's surrounded by like 2-3 players with no United player around to help him, so genuinely what is he supposed to do exactly? The reason we've been absolutely shite at scoring is because our entire system is built around getting most of our goals from our 2 wide players, who haven't aren't exactly prolific except for Rashford who seems to be on a downward spiral again. This is why you don't see Hojlund running channels or getting onto the end of through balls very often, if ever, because that's not how the team is set up to play, instead its quick ball out to a wide player, cut inside, shoot 9 times out of 10.

I'm still not willing to judge this guy until we get Amorim in, who sets a system up for his striker upfront, that's why you see Gyokeres scoring a lot of goals, it's not because he's absolutely world class and can do everything on his own (though he obviously is good) it's because the team is set up to service this guy as much as possible and play to Gyokeres strengths, ones that are in the vein of Hojlund. Now if Hojlund flops after Amorim comes in when the system plays to his strengths then of course we move on and look for other options, but you people need to realise it isn't as simple as take one player out and plug in another like it will immediately fix just how dogshit we are set up at the front of the pitch and have been ever since ETH came in

I see what you're saying but I would still go for Gyokeres. Especially if Amorim wants to come in and introduce the same system he's playing right now. If nothing else, it gives us good depth. Two strikers that can play the play the position the way the coach wants. Zirkzee definitely isn't this suited to playing that way. He's probably a better fit for one of the 10 roles.
My main concern with buying Gyokeres is it's like buying stock at its highest point.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Yet people think the starting CF is locked down with him

Well it's either him or Zirkzee at the moment so the options are limited!

It's a f**king scandalous situation that the club has put itself in regarding the CF position.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Terrible forward and must be replaced ASAP

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

His finishing might be his best attribute, not sure how you can call it average. His conversion rate is among the best. His problem all along has been getting involved in the game and getting on the end of chances.

Hold up play is average to good. Not crap. He's inconsistent at it. Some games he looks awesome at it, other games not so much.

Ah mate, I've never, ever seen Rasmus' hold up play to be even remotely in the same post code as "awesome"! At best, he's done OK in a few games, that's about it. But most of the time it's been abysmal.

Maybe we should give up on trying to make him a "hold the ball up" CF and focus on making him a purely "on-the-shoulder of the defender" type CF like an Ollie Watkins, where we utilise his pace and try to play him in behind more.

Amorim turned Gyokeres from a Championship CF into one of the hottest properties in Europe, if he can't get a tune out of Rasmus, then I'm not sure he has a long term future at the club. The jury is still very much out for me.

 

[Lentwood]

All I will say on Hojlund is that he's still very young for a CF, especially a lone CF in a struggling side.

Consider that...

Ollie Watkins was 23/24 when he went to Villa, at which point he'd scored 45 / 132 for Brentford in the Championship.

Ivan Toney was 23/24 when he went to Brentford. Before that he was at Peterborough and had scored 40 / 70. Before his two seasons at Peterborough, he'd spent time on loan at Wigan and Scunthorpe.

Viktor Gyokeres was 22/23 and playing for Coventry in the Championship, for whom he scored 38 in 91. Before that he couldn't get a look-in at Brighton and had scored 0 in 11 on loan at Swansea.

Dominic Solanke was 22/23 when he joined Bournemouth after scoring 1 in 23 for Liverpool. In his first season at Bournemouth he scored 15 in 46 in the Championship and then scored 6 goals in 38 games in his first season in the PL.

Obviously there are also examples of strikers who scored plenty of goals as teenagers / in their early 20s, but the point I am making is it's not an easy task being a CF at that age against PL level CBs, especially when he's been poorly coached by EtH and plays in a dysfunctional side.

I think it's too early to write him off yet. He needs help and support.

 

[CannibalSpectre]

Do you close your eyes when you watch the game? Did he or did he not make an excellent run/sprint for the Amad chance who shot himself? If Amad had passed, it would have been an easy tap in and a goal. How is that never making a good run, consistently in the wrong position or never in the right place? If a striker is in position for a tap in assuming he gets passed the ball, that is by definition being in the right place.

Not a good game at all, but criticising for the wrong things makes you look so silly.

You keep repeating this isolated event in the match because there isn't much else demonstrable evidence in support of your claim that Hojlund does some of the things he's being criticized for not doing on a regular basis.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

My main concern with buying Gyokeres is it's like buying stock at its highest point.

My main concern with buying Gyokeres is that he'd cost a fortune, and we've already been stung with a manager bringing in a player from his former club for an astronomical amount, only for him to flop.

The Antony fiasco became a real millstone around Ten Hag's neck. Because of the price tag and the fact that Antony was "Ten Hag's guy", he persisted with him far longer than his performances merited, to the detriment of the team, and it undermined confidence in Ten Hag with the fans, and I'm sure players as well. A kind of, "Christ, if he thought Antony was worth this much money, he must be clueless!"

Say we sign Gyokeres for I dunno, £80m and he flops, I could potentially see the same thing happening with Amorim.

Having said that, I think Gyokeres has a much stronger body of work behind him than Antony ever had! And I'd be gutted if Gyokeres went to Arsenal or Chelsea and tore it up there, while we were still rotating between Hojlund and Zirkzee!

So maybe the risk is worth it!

 

[Squeaky_Bum_Time]

I like him and want him to do well but I’ve said this before, and it is not his fault, but fecking hell watching him be our starting striker and remembering that at some point we had Cole, Yorke, Ole, Saha, Rooney, Ruud, RVP, Ibra, Cavani, Forlan, and even pre-blubber Lukaku…

He must be the worst striker in a while to start for us week in week out.

And I actually do like him, there is something here, but he can’t be out starting striker right now.