[Insanity]

Your first sentence is hyperbole. Around 2 miscontrols per 90 kind of indicates he isn't "poor". Sure, he is no Mata but it's not either you have a phemomenal first touch or a shit one. For comparison, Gyokeres miscontrols the ball more often, actually putting him close to bottom for strikers. This is also in a weaker league. No one is talking about that, because he doesn't play for us and it doesn't affect us in any way - until he plays for us.

His hold-up involves holding off players. This is how he learns. It has already improved significantly since he joined, and it is genuinely bizarre how some can't see that. I agree that he holds them off for longer than necessary, but he'll learn.

He should have had an assist against Chelsea. He doesn't "constantly" make the wrong decisions. He made a few this weekend, but generally he provides the wingers with excellent passes.

I agree, we should buy a first choice striker and have him as back-up as he learns, similarly to Duran for Villa. But these "he'll likely never improve" posts in this thread really need to stop. Every single striker that plays in PL now was not the same level at 20. Maybe he will never be good enough to lead the line for us, or maybe he will explode. He certainly has a skill set that could see him blossom if he can learn to combine these qualities more consistently and improve some of them.

It's not hyperbole. It's an assessment (correct, imo) of his performances based on the evidence so far. You do need to have a good touch as a striker as a lot of balls are played into you. A lot of goal scoring opportunities can disappear due to a bad touch. I don't know why you keep bringing Gyokeres into this, it really has no relevance to this. Also, we have had a young Lukaku and we first hand saw that those kinda of deficiencies can be a huge hindrance for a team with ambitions.

I am glad you agree that we need a better, much more refined first choice striker.

 

[romufc]

Gyokeres also has a bad touch, poor hold-up play and limited link-up ability?

I see that you watched him in the championship? Or did you watch him at Brighton before that when he was younger?

Or do you watch highlights and make your mind up?

 

[Insanity]

I see that you watched him in the championship? Or did you watch him at Brighton before that when he was younger?

Or do you watch highlights and make your mind up?

You have reading comprehension issues and your posts are always petulant & aggressive. Please don't quote me again. I have no interest in any exchange with you.

A word of advice, go read the post you quoted again and what I replied too...and this time slowly. If you still don't get what I meant, I am sorry, I can't help you.

 

[romufc]

You have reading comprehension issues and your posts are always petulant & aggressive. Please don't quote me again. I have no interest in any exchange with you.

A word of advice, go read the post you quoted again and what I replied too...and this time slowly. If you still don't get what I meant, I am sorry, I can't help you.

Oh sorry, didn't realise I was taking an English exam.

Put me on ignore then you won't have those issues.

The poster stated that he sees similarities in Hojlund and Gyokeres and you implied by your ? (question mark) that Hojlund has a poor first touch and link up ability.

Acting as if you are a Gyokeres expert and watched him alot.. probably didn't even know who he was 18 months ago.

Hojlund is 21 and will improve, what striker is the finished article at 21?

 

[Tony247]

Thing is, if we want to win next match we need a striker who IS scoring goals and not someone who may have potential to score goals in 3 years.

 

[Robbie Boy]

This guy has bags of potential, hopefully Amorim can unlock it. People are so impatient these days, the guy is 21 and scored 16 goals in a totally dysfunctional team last sesson. At 21 Ruud had just scored 16 goals for Heerenven before his move to PSV.

 

[Revival2024]

Your first sentence is hyperbole. Around 2 miscontrols per 90 kind of indicates he isn't "poor". Sure, he is no Mata but it's not either you have a phemomenal first touch or a shit one. For comparison, Gyokeres miscontrols the ball more often, actually putting him close to bottom for strikers. This is also in a weaker league. No one is talking about that, because he doesn't play for us and it doesn't affect us in any way - until he plays for us.

His hold-up involves holding off players. This is how he learns. It has already improved significantly since he joined, and it is genuinely bizarre how some can't see that. I agree that he holds them off for longer than necessary, but he'll learn.

He should have had an assist against Chelsea. He doesn't "constantly" make the wrong decisions. He made a few this weekend, but generally he provides the wingers with excellent passes.

I agree, we should buy a first choice striker and have him as back-up as he learns, similarly to Duran for Villa. But these "he'll likely never improve" posts in this thread really need to stop. Every single striker that plays in PL now was not the same level at 20. Maybe he will never be good enough to lead the line for us, or maybe he will explode. He certainly has a skill set that could see him blossom if he can learn to combine these qualities more consistently and improve some of them.

You have no evidence to suggest Hojlund will improve either. His record in Italy was not exceptional in front of goal. His touch is awful and needs improving. His off the ball movement isn't great either. The best strikers tend to create chances for themselves by the movements they make. He is either running around aimlessly, pointlessly backing into defenders or is behind play more often than not. His age is irrelevant.

If he doesn't step up soon, he will be carted off like others have before him.
Amorim will come in and hopefully coach him to be better. Ruud is there too. He needs to spend a considerable amount of time refining all elements of his game. Jury is out on him.

 

[Kaos]

He'll have the rest of the season to prove he can play the Gyokeres role before United attempt to go and get the real Gyokeres.

 

[Revival2024]

This guy has bags of potential, hopefully Amorim can unlock it. People are so impatient these days, the guy is 21 and scored 16 goals in a totally dysfunctional team last sesson. At 21 Ruud had just scored 16 goals for Heerenven before his move to PSV.

Age is irrelevant. It has never been precursor for success or failure. It is a constant. If you want to improve, you either have it and maximize what you have, steal it or work for it. Everything else is a funk of excuses and fallacy of convenience.

Unimaginative comparisons with others "at the same age" has no value. All you have is now, this moment and what you have done or doing. Others around the world do not have the excuse of age to remain useless.

 

[Grand Vizier]

It's not hyperbole. It's an assessment (correct, imo) of his performances based on the evidence so far. You do need to have a good touch as a striker as a lot of balls are played into you. A lot of goal scoring opportunities can disappear due to a bad touch. I don't know why you keep bringing Gyokeres into this, it really has no relevance to this. Also, we have had a young Lukaku and we first hand saw that those kinda of deficiencies can be a huge hindrance for a team with ambitions.

I am glad you agree that we need a better, much more refined first choice striker.

You don't need to go further back than the Brentford game where Højlund made an exquisite touch before chipping it over the goalkeeper and scoring. He doesn't have loose touches constantly throughout the game.

I guess the point I'm making by bringing Gyokeres (and other strikers) into this is to show that your emotional attachment to United is probably making you exaggerate his weaknesses. Every striker has loose touches every now and then. You don't think much of it when Haaland or Gyokeres does it because you don't really care, whereas when Højlund does it, you get annoyed and begin to think it is a weakness, and confuse it for inconsistency.

But yes, this team should not be relying on a 21 year old to lead the line. Maybe he is ready in 2-3 years, but he has a lot of work to do. I just think he has a bigger ceiling than a lot in here seem to think, and I'm patient with him because I find his skill set to be quite complete for such a young striker other than his aerial ability, and confident he will be a class striker in a few years. He is after all one of the highest rated young strikers, even if there are very few of them these days.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Age is irrelevant. It has never been precursor for success or failure. It is a constant. If you want to improve, you either have it and maximize what you have, steal it or work for it. Everything else is a funk of excuses and fallacy of convenience.

Unimaginative comparisons with others "at the same age" has no value. All you have is now, this moment and what you have done or doing. Others around the world do not have the excuse of age to remain useless.

Very good

 

[sglowrider]

He'll have the rest of the season to prove he can play the Gyokeres role before United attempt to go and get the real Gyokeres.

 

[Grand Vizier]

You have no evidence to suggest Hojlund will improve either. His record in Italy was not exceptional in front of goal. His touch is awful and needs improving. His off the ball movement isn't great either. The best strikers tend to create chances for themselves by the movements they make. He is either running around aimlessly, pointlessly backing into defenders or is behind play more often than not. His age is irrelevant.

If he doesn't step up soon, he will be carted off like others have before him.
Amorim will come in and hopefully coach him to be better. Ruud is there too. He needs to spend a considerable amount of time refining all elements of his game. Jury is out on him.

You would say the exact same thing about every great or world class striker that wasn't great at the age of 20, so posts like these are kind of pointless. What did Falcao, Cavani, van Nistelrooy or many other strikers show at 20 for them to be potentially world class? Or any other striker in the PL not named Haaland?

"Age doesn't matter". Of course it matters. Players usually develop and become better the older they get and more experience they gain. Name a single great striker that was the same level at 20 and didn't improve with age and experience, and I'll admit you were right.

 

[Robbie Boy]

You would say the exact same thing about every great or world class striker that wasn't great at the age of 20, so posts like these are kind of pointless. What did Falcao, Cavani, van Nistelrooy or any other show at 20 for them to be potentially world class? Or any other striker in the PL not named Haaland?

"Age doesn't matter". Of course it matters. Players usually develop and become better the older they get and more experience they gain. Name a single great striker that was the same level at 20 and didn't improve with age and experience, and I'll admit you were right.

It was an absolutely bonkers post that didn't really deserve a proper response.

 

[CM]

Good video. It's probably the thing I'm most excited about with Amorim's arrival. Simple issues like these should get ironed out and produce more goals. Structurally we're a mess right now.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Good video. It's probably the thing I'm most excited about with Amorim's arrival. Simple issues like these should get ironed out and produce more goals. Structurally we're a mess right now.

No, no, no! You have to make out that every single player we have is utter shite.

 

[FrankDrebin]

To get the best of him I actually think he works best working the wide channels. I don't think he has a real strikers instinct in the box.
Plus, like Zirkzee, he practically has zero threat in the air.

 

[Lu Tze]

Excellent vid. The fact that Hojlund has 0.7 shots a game vs Gyokeres at 4.9 is a criminal indictment of the way we play right now. Even if we attribute say, 2 of those shots/game to superior movement from the more experienced striker, with Hojlund's outrageous conversion rate we should be able to get his goalscoring way up.

 

[Revival2024]

You would say the exact same thing about every great or world class striker that wasn't great at the age of 20, so posts like these are kind of pointless. What did Falcao, Cavani, van Nistelrooy or many other strikers show at 20 for them to be potentially world class? Or any other striker in the PL not named Haaland?

"Age doesn't matter". Of course it matters. Players usually develop and become better the older they get and more experience they gain. Name a single great striker that was the same level at 20 and didn't improve with age and experience, and I'll admit you were right.

I'm making a general point about life. Your hyperbole response does not negate my point. Age is not an exact causation for improvement. It is factual to say your age is a constant. The work you put in is what actually elevates you to a different level. It is the only quantitative measure of progress, not how you feel. Not a number which you have no say in. Work is the only variable you can control.

It is convenient for many to sit in their little paradise carved by mummy and daddy, waiting for your age to transform you. Others around the world have to face harsher realities. They have to be smarter and make better choices as early as possible. I find that excuse lacking in grit, imagination and cooked up in mental weakness and excuses.

Sure, Hojlund is 21 and other strikers have improved. He is a grown man. His age doesn't mean he will improve, if anything, Hojlund might get worse and get kicked out. He is in his second season and in both seasons, he has struggled to get goals. He is a 72 million pounds signing, not some plucky academy player from Salford FC. He is at Manchester United, not FC Copenhagen. There should be demands for progress.

At the moment, he lacks the fundamentals of a top player and has not shown, at least consistently, that he will become this. Whether you like it or not.

 

[Revival2024]

It was an absolutely bonkers post that didn't really deserve a proper response.

I don't think you are capable of a proper response, so I doubt I will be waiting on standby

 

[Robbie Boy]

Excellent vid. The fact that Hojlund has 0.7 shots a game vs Gyokeres at 4.9 is a criminal indictment of the way we play right now. Even if we attribute say, 2 of those shots/game to superior movement from the more experienced striker, with Hojlund's outrageous conversion rate we should be able to get his goalscoring way up.

Maybe Hojlund will simply end up not being good enough. But, judging a striker who has played in this "system" over the past circa 18-months, isn't a great barometer. If he still looks this raw come the end of the sesson, then yeah, things aren't looking too good. I expect him to dramatically improve under Amorim as I think he is talented.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I don't think you are capable of a proper response, so I doubt I will be waiting on standby

 

[Lu Tze]

Maybes Hojlund will simply end up not being good enough. But, judging a striker who has played in this "system" over the past circa 18-months, isn't a great barometer. If he still looks this raw come the end of the sesson, then yeah, things aren't looking too good. I expect him to dramatically improve under Amorim as I think he is talented.

Completely agreed. It's absolutely premature to judge him on the basis of our current system, given both his physical attributes, conversion rates, and his frankly myopic teammates.

 

[Ish]

This guy has bags of potential, hopefully Amorim can unlock it. People are so impatient these days, the guy is 21 and scored 16 goals in a totally dysfunctional team last sesson. At 21 Ruud had just scored 16 goals for Heerenven before his move to PSV.

Yep, he has the tools to become a really good striker. He’s not been helped by the dysfunctional team he’s played for so let’s give him some support and time.

 

[Gandalf]

I'm making a general point about life. Your hyperbole response does not negate my point. Age is not an exact causation for improvement. It is factual to say your age is a constant. The work you put in is what actually elevates you to a different level. It is the only quantitative measure of progress, not how you feel. Not a number which you have no say in. Work is the only variable you can control.

It is convenient for many to sit in their little paradise carved by mummy and daddy, waiting for your age to transform you. Others around the world have to face harsher realities. They have to be smarter and make better choices as early as possible. I find that excuse lacking in grit, imagination and cooked up in mental weakness and excuses.

Sure, Hojlund is 21 and other strikers have improved. He is a grown man. His age doesn't mean he will improve, if anything, Hojlund might get worse and get kicked out. He is in his second season and in both seasons, he has struggled to get goals. He is a 72 million pounds signing, not some plucky academy player from Salford FC. He is at Manchester United, not FC Copenhagen. There should be demands for progress.

At the moment, he lacks the fundamentals of a top player and has not shown, at least consistently, that he will become this. Whether you like it or not.

The bolded proves you don't have a clue what you are talking about. His second season has barely started after he missed the first month with injury. In his first season he scored 16 goals in 43 appearances which is pretty damn good in a team that created hardly any chances for him and for the record he had the best shot conversion rate of any PL striker that season.

So far as the age debate goes. Nobody is saying age will magically transform him, he will be transformed by experience and coaching just like the 99% of professional footballers who were nowhere near their peak at 21. Your denial of reality is a symptom of your derangement not a fact.

 

[Grand Vizier]

I'm making a general point about life. Your hyperbole response does not negate my point. Age is not an exact causation for improvement. It is factual to say your age is a constant. The work you put in is what actually elevates you to a different level. It is the only quantitative measure of progress, not how you feel. Not a number which you have no say in. Work is the only variable you can control.

It is convenient for many to sit in their little paradise carved by mummy and daddy, waiting for your age to transform you. Others around the world have to face harsher realities. They have to be smarter and make better choices as early as possible. I find that excuse lacking in grit, imagination and cooked up in mental weakness and excuses.

Sure, Hojlund is 21 and other strikers have improved. He is a grown man. His age doesn't mean he will improve, if anything, Hojlund might get worse and get kicked out. He is in his second season and in both seasons, he has struggled to get goals. He is a 72 million pounds signing, not some plucky academy player from Salford FC. He is at Manchester United, not FC Copenhagen. There should be demands for progress.

At the moment, he lacks the fundamentals of a top player and has not shown, at least consistently, that he will become this. Whether you like it or not.

What is hyperbole about my post?

I mean, footballers tend to improve the older they get. I don't get why that is difficult to understand, or why you're so hung up on that topic in this debate. Yeah, he could stagnate, but so can literally every player in the world. Is that the starting point you want to start from when discussing a player's potential and development?

Højlund clearly has his head in the right place with a good attitude and mentality. Surely, you'd see the most likely outcome is that he becomes a better striker at 25 than he is at 21? If not, we should just stop here.

He struggles to get goals because he isn't supplied consistently enough. Yes, some of the blame is his, but take a look at Garnacho and Rashford's crosses/passes into the box, and how few chances they create compared to other wingers in PL, and Højlund's conversion rate, and you'll see a pattern and hopefully understand why he can score more goals under a competent manager who plays good football and gets the most out of his players. This whole black and white "he doesn't score enough, not a good striker" is ridiculous to say the least. Put Harry Kane in this team and he'd struggle to score often.

 

[Wezzaldo]

Sorry but if you are good it shows aged 20.

Rubbish. You’re a liar if you looked at a 20 year old Harry Kane and thought he’d be a top player. At 20 he was at Leicester on loan doing absolutely nothing.

 

[Glorio]

You would say the exact same thing about every great or world class striker that wasn't great at the age of 20, so posts like these are kind of pointless. What did Falcao, Cavani, van Nistelrooy or many other strikers show at 20 for them to be potentially world class? Or any other striker in the PL not named Haaland?

"Age doesn't matter". Of course it matters. Players usually develop and become better the older they get and more experience they gain. Name a single great striker that was the same level at 20 and didn't improve with age and experience, and I'll admit you were right.

Maybe if he says "age is irrelevant" enough times, it may just become true.

 

[klayton88]

The state of this thread. Seems you can't have an opinion of a player on this forum any more without being told how you're wrong almost immediately. My thoughts on Hojlund is he won't make it here. Seen him play enough now to be confident he won't be a regular scorer for us.

However there are people on here 100% convinced he'll turn in to prime Rooney based on nothing but hope because he's been largely underwhelming so far.

Accept people have different opinions instead of jumping down the throats of somebody who sees things different to you. Grown men FFS.

 

[Stobzilla]

Grown men FFS.

Awwww he's such a Grown Man lads, look at him gracefully handling other people's retorts on a discussion forum!

 

[Grand Vizier]

The state of this thread. Seems you can't have an opinion of a player on this forum any more without being told how you're wrong almost immediately. My thoughts on Hojlund is he won't make it here. Seen him play enough now to be confident he won't be a regular scorer for us.

However there are people on here 100% convinced he'll turn in to prime Rooney based on nothing but hope because he's been largely underwhelming so far.

Accept people have different opinions instead of jumping down the throats of somebody who sees things different to you. Grown men FFS.

Having an opinion is one thing, stating that he won't make it here like you just did as if you are some kind of expert scout is laughable.

Also the state of that rant and ending it with "grown men"

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Jury is out on him

They have reached a unanimous verdict on your post though: Guilty of confirmation bias and exaggeration.
His touch is “awful” (we can debate how much improvement it needs, but awful is beyond ridiculous), forwards “create their own chances” (like he mostly did last season where he scored 16) , he “runs around aimlessly” (he runs where he’s told to run - and when he does find a free position in the box despite our former manager wanting him to feed the wingers, he usually doesn’t receive the ball).

If your assessment was just close to being sound he would never have scored 16 goals in his first season for a team in crisis, where he was out with injuries for a time as well.
He was very promising at Atalanta with Gasperini praising his talent, but his career had catapulted and he came to Italy after just half a year in Austria. But he did score 10 in 34 matches. For a young prospect that’s not bad.
This video is good because it shows not only goals, but how he runs and position himself in a team that functions well. If anything he’s become more clinical now, but he suffers because of how we set up under ETH.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

Age is irrelevant. It has never been precursor for success or failure. It is a constant. If you want to improve, you either have it and maximize what you have, steal it or work for it. Everything else is a funk of excuses and fallacy of convenience.

Unimaginative comparisons with others "at the same age" has no value. All you have is now, this moment and what you have done or doing. Others around the world do not have the excuse of age to remain useless.

Whoa, just read that after my last reply. That’s really weird, to get all worked up as if it was Hojlund who made excuses for himself. It’s other fans trying to explain to you that he has the tools to become very very good.
And “useless… whow

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

The state of this thread. Seems you can't have an opinion of a player on this forum any more without being told how you're wrong almost immediately. My thoughts on Hojlund is he won't make it here. Seen him play enough now to be confident he won't be a regular scorer for us.

However there are people on here 100% convinced he'll turn in to prime Rooney based on nothing but hope because he's been largely underwhelming so far.

Accept people have different opinions instead of jumping down the throats of somebody who sees things different to you. Grown men FFS.

Thing is, the posters who dismiss him never build a proper argument. Like you don’t either. It’s just “I think/feel/can see he’s not good enough/crap etc”. Whereas others give you both quantitative and qualitative arguments for why he’s at least a promising talent - but you guys never address the relevant points because - I don’t know, maybe you only trust your own feelings or just can’t be bothered. Very post factual. But why then engage in a debate? Never understood that.

 

[RedRocket9908]

The state of this thread. Seems you can't have an opinion of a player on this forum any more without being told how you're wrong almost immediately. My thoughts on Hojlund is he won't make it here. Seen him play enough now to be confident he won't be a regular scorer for us.

However there are people on here 100% convinced he'll turn in to prime Rooney based on nothing but hope because he's been largely underwhelming so far.

Accept people have different opinions instead of jumping down the throats of somebody who sees things different to you. Grown men FFS.

I would love it to work out for the lad but I just cant see it, ive not seen anything to suggest he will ever be good enough to be anything more than a rotation player for us like Chicharito was and he would be better off moving to a club in a smaller league where there is less pressure on him like Gyokeres did.

I keep seeing the same old tired excuse about him not getting any service which is incorrect as he does get service but most of the time he is out of position or badly when our players get the ball in the wide area's and cross or play it across the box and on most of the occasions they do manage to get the ball to him he either messes up with an awful first touch, falls over, or just gets it easilly taken off him.

 

[J!!Z]

What this video does ironically, is highlight why we were so poor in attack under ETH despite the constant turnovers in the final third. For whatever reason, he refused to drill the mindset that the number 9 should be priority when it comes to goal scoring (possibly because Martial was a sicknote and Rashford was banging them in from wing in his first season) while setting the attack up in such a way that there was so much space between the fowards that they couldn't combine effectivity to create chances for each other.

 

[Gavinb33]

We need to get him facing the goal is all it will take, he scored a goal like Gyokeres scored last night for us before, playing with his back to goal is killing his effectiveness in what he is good at

 

[Lu Tze]

I would love it to work out for the lad but I just cant see it, ive not seen anything to suggest he will ever be good enough to be anything more than a rotation player for us like Chicharito was and he would be better off moving to a club in a smaller league where there is less pressure on him like Gyokeres did.

I keep seeing the same old tired excuse about him not getting any service which is incorrect as he does get service but most of the time he is out of position or badly when our players get the ball in the wide area's and cross or play it across the box and on most of the occasions they do manage to get the ball to him he either messes up with an awful first touch, falls over, or just gets it easilly taken off him.

It's a simple fact that our strikers have got poor service. You could put whatever striker you want in there, they would get poor service. Have you watched the vid posted earlier in the thread? It demonstrates things perfectly.

Our wingers do not prioritise a cross or a pass, they prioritise (at almost all costs) a cut in for a shot, with Hojlund acting as a secondary option when all else has failed. This constrains the space for him rather than opening it up. When they actually do cross, it's usually after delaying, cutting in, cutting out, or waiting for the overlap, at which point the defense is fully reset and there's no space to really run into to create separation from defenders.

It's so blindingly obvious to me that this is mainly a tactical issue that all the folks claiming that their gut and vibes tell them he won't make it really just seem to be misjudging the picture without much evidence.

 

[Grand Vizier]

I would love it to work out for the lad but I just cant see it, ive not seen anything to suggest he will ever be good enough to be anything more than a rotation player for us like Chicharito was and he would be better off moving to a club in a smaller league where there is less pressure on him like Gyokeres did.

I keep seeing the same old tired excuse about him not getting any service which is incorrect as he does get service but most of the time he is out of position or badly when our players get the ball in the wide area's and cross or play it across the box and on most of the occasions they do manage to get the ball to him he either messes up with an awful first touch, falls over, or just gets it easilly taken off him.

How can you go from being reasonable to just completely make up something in the space of a paragraph? It's so incredibly inaccurate, and you know it. Garnacho and Rashford are in the bottom percentile for passes and crosses into the box amongst wingers, so how do you work that out?

Against Chelsea, Højlund made a great movement for a potential cutback goal when Garnacho was inside their penalty box. He predictably didn't pass to Højlund and gave the ball to the goalkeeper instead. This happens too frequently, and it's infuriating. Amorim will sort out that shit from Garnacho and Rashford - if he even plays.

 

[KD6-3.7]

I like Højlund but I just don’t think he has much of a high ceiling.