[Cathy Ferguson]

How can Manchester United not have a proven goalscorer on our books?

Scouting issue. 70m should get you one.

 

[SER19]

Scouting issue. 70m should get you one.

should get you 2 to be honest.

 

[Theo88]

Rasmus needs to be loaned out to a championship team. Get some goals in feel good about your skills come back the year after. This is the level he is currently operating at. I still think there’s a player in there but that player now isn’t cut out to lead the line for any team in the PL

 

[The Sad Clown]

Rasmus needs to be loaned out to a championship team. Get some goals in feel good about your skills come back the year after. This is the level he is currently operating at. I still think there’s a player in there but that player now isn’t cut out to lead the line for any team in the PL

It looks bad going as far as sending him to the
dregs of the Championship.

 

[dubplate warrior]

I've been very critical but probably not critical enough. I think he's the worst number 9 we have had in 40 years.

 

[Theo88]

It looks bad going as far as sending him to the
dregs of the Championship.

Does it ? I’m not sure anymore. Could he theoretically start anywhere in the PL ? Not being sarcastic here but can’t think of a team that he would displace a forward.

Southampton maybe ? Bottom of the league though.

Defo not for Ipswich.

Not for Leicester

Unlikely for Wolves.

I think he has a future. But definitely he isn’t there yet.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Does it ? I’m not sure anymore. Could he theoretically start anywhere in the PL ? Not being sarcastic here but can’t think of a team that he would displace a forward.

Southampton maybe ? Bottom of the league though.

Defo not for Ipswich.

Not for Leicester

Unlikely for Wolves.

I think he has a future. But definitely he isn’t there yet.

Not at United. You simply can't play at the level we want to be at without basic fundamentals of football.

 

[Fortitude]

Just in case, not a pun on you Fortitude (and also leaving Rasmus aside), it gets quite a bit tiring the constant old mighty level of EPL, it gets a bit too over the top for my taste. This is not sthg. just from this period in time (it happened before) and of course nowadays actually EPL it's clearly the most powerful league (while also happened with other Leagues on the past too).

Yet sometimes the sort of praise reaches a level of absurdity, that goes way to far with the suppose walking on water requirements needed to make it in EPL, while like in any period of football, the level of a singular player it's more related to more "micro situations" than the macro one of the League itself.

It’s not praise.

 

[Bobski]

10 games ago v Nottingham Forest (although he has only played 664 minutes in those 10 games)

He has a total of 2 PL goals in 20 games this season (1196 minutes) That's the same number of goals as Craig Dawson own goals. This weekend Merino took 6 minutes to match Hojlund's tally and Marmoush took 13 minutes to better it.

Hojlunds 3 shot explosion yesterday took him to 16 shots in the league this season, Tel had 7 yesterday in his first PL game alone and was only a little less shit than Rasmus.

Hojlund this season is like Ten Hags Utd last season, pretty awful but the underlying stats are somehow even worse.

He has legitimately, no hyperbole, been the worst starting forward in the league.

 

[dcrompton]

Hojlunds 3 shot explosion yesterday took him to 16 shots in the league this season, Tel had 7 yesterday in his first PL game alone and was only a little less shit than Rasmus.

Hojlund this season is like Ten Hags Utd last season, pretty awful but the underlying stats are somehow even worse.

He has legitimately, no hyperbole, been the worst starting forward in the league.

We are desperate for a 30 goal a season striker and Hojlund will struggle to reach 30 shots for the season!

 

[Bobski]

We are desperate for a 30 goal a season striker and Hojlund will struggle to reach 30 shots for the season!

I am desperate for a striker who can make the team better no matter what that means, doesn't necessarily have to mean they are prolific, a striker with a strong all round game, good physical level and who has pristine technique would make the play flow so much better.

Getting a one dimensional, somewhat clumsy, scorer like Osimehn would be the wrong move for me, haven't seen enough of Gyokeres to judge his all round game.

 

[dubplate warrior]

I am desperate for a striker who can make the team better no matter what that means, doesn't necessarily have to mean they are prolific, a striker with a strong all round game, good physical level and who has pristine technique would make the play flow so much better.

Getting a one dimensional, somewhat clumsy, scorer like Osimehn would be the wrong move for me, haven't seen enough of Gyokeres to judge his all round game.

To be honest Zirkzee has a lot of those traits, but we still need him to score at least 15 goals a season.

 

[Fobal]

It’s not praise.

...well the predominant view of the EPL has quite a share of snobism, insular approach, quite a bit of black and white or better said light approach to the particular subject of every particular player and of course the REAL demands the particular League has as main characteristics, that not always should be read as "better", or always "harder per se", yet hard as any variable that changes in the carreer of any footballer (for instance the Mbappe and La Liga takes were bizarre not long ago too, with over the top views some fans and an unnecessary trash talking about the French Ligue).

Leaving aside that of course, certain types would feel more at home in a certain League than another, yet mostly in a CERTAIN TEAM, than another (and even a certain perido of a certain team given how a simply coach can change the whole scenario).

It's way too much the way people talks about (and demerits) other leagues, or what is needed for the best one and in the case of the EPL it doesn't only happening nowadays that clearly it's the most powerful one. There are lots of more important nuances than the predominant style on a League, or even the players in those, for a singular player to adapt to a certain League.

Like the micro aspects of what team we are talking about: THE COACH, the moment of that team as a CLUB, what teammates at a particular moment, the role of the particular player, the ammount of press, fee paid to him, the stereotypes regarding what type of build is apprently need it, the particular form of the player in a certain period, if that player is a foreigner the adaptation to the new city, country, his family adaptation or the lack of it to support...and a large etc. Specially regarding foreigners or home grown players, the "it's not build for the League" comes to easy and most of times it's not just that or the most important thing preventing a player to be his best self.

If that was the case not even Phil Foden former Player of the Year is built for this League given how he always fluctuates his form in different periods of almost every season he played with City and how he struggled a lot and still does in the International stage and a player of his skills and talent has 18 goals in CLs in 60 matches, not bad at all, not precisly stunning either.

Anyway I won't derrail it more, but I have come across so many times with that easy "it's not cut for the League" in the forum that sometimes becomes tiresome, your post just triggered, but yet let me clarify by no means as a typical example of the lack of nuances approach, you are not that type of poster. And in fact maybe I just used your post because I had teh sensation you won't read it as an attack or not being totally opossed of what it's said there (it's not that case).

Have lots of valid points, but it's not that other Leagues are so inferior (are mostly different even if they are a level below in many things) that instantly would make him better, but the main thing for Ramus that might help him, IT's THE CHANGE OF AIR, of scenario, because right now with his level of confidence he is not suited to any sort of team on any League. Yet he might just need to get off the plane in Italy, feel great, alive again, and he performs better.

He just needs to build that confidence again to simply perform, another subject is if that him perfomring at his best it's even on pair with the demands that usually puts not the League, but Manchester United in their best exponents in his role, but this also comes time and again to bite him, more because of the price tag over his head and lack of pedigree.

 

[FreakyJim]

He wasn't this bad at the start. What are we doing to our players?

 

[Pronewbie]

He wasn't this bad at the start. What are we doing to our players?

Players need to learn to not use social media. It's really that simple.

 

[dubplate warrior]

He wasn't this bad at the start. What are we doing to our players?

Maybe it was a bright start and now you're just beginning to see his shortcomings. Opposition will see more of you and figure you out, it's not the club that's made him shit, he just is.

 

[Fortitude]

...well the predominant view of the EPL has quite a share of snobism, insular approach, quite a bit of black and white or better said light approach to the particular subject of every particular player and of course the REAL demands the particular League has as main characteristics, that not always should be read as "better", or always "harder per se", yet hard as any variable that changes in the carreer of any footballer (for instance the Mbappe and La Liga takes were bizarre not long ago too, with over the top views some fans and an unnecessary trash talking about the French Ligue).

Leaving aside that of course, certain types would feel more at home in a certain League than another, yet mostly in a CERTAIN TEAM, than another (and even a certain perido of a certain team given how a simply coach can change the whole scenario).

It's way too much the way people talks about (and demerits) other leagues, or what is needed for the best one and in the case of the EPL it doesn't only happening nowadays that clearly it's the most powerful one. There are lots of more important nuances than the predominant style on a League, or even the players in those, for a singular player to adapt to a certain League.

Like the micro aspects of what team we are talking about: THE COACH, the moment of that team as a CLUB, what teammates at a particular moment, the role of the particular player, the ammount of press, fee paid to him, the stereotypes regarding what type of build is apprently need it, the particular form of the player in a certain period, if that player is a foreigner the adaptation to the new city, country, his family adaptation or the lack of it to support...and a large etc. Specially regarding foreigners or home grown players, the "it's not build for the League" comes to easy and most of times it's not just that or the most important thing preventing a player to be his best self.

If that was the case not even Phil Foden former Player of the Year is built for this League given how he always fluctuates his form in different periods of almost every season he played with City and how he struggled a lot and still does in the International stage and a player of his skills and talent has 18 goals in CLs in 60 matches, not bad at all, not precisly stunning either.

Anyway I won't derrail it more, but I have come across so many times with that easy "it's not cut for the League" in the forum that sometimes becomes tiresome, your post just triggered, but yet let me clarify by no means as a typical example of the lack of nuances approach, you are not that type of poster. And in fact maybe I just used your post because I had teh sensation you won't read it as an attack or not being totally opossed of what it's said there (it's not that case).

Have lots of valid points, but it's not that other Leagues are so inferior (are mostly different even if they are a level below in many things) that instantly would make him better, but the main thing for Ramus that might help him, IT's THE CHANGE OF AIR, of scenario, because right now with his level of confidence he is not suited to any sort of team on any League. Yet he might just need to get off the plane in Italy, feel great, alive again, and he performs better.

He just needs to build that confidence again to simply perform, another subject is if that him perfomring at his best it's even on pair with the demands that usually puts not the League, but Manchester United in their best exponents in his role, but this also comes time and again to bite him, more because of the price tag over his head and lack of pedigree.

Sorry but you seem to have an issue with the perception of the league that you are conflating with a very simple statement that doesn't take even a shrewd eye to see. Faster and more powerful are certainly not synonyms for better and for a long time, it was used pejoratively when talking about the PL (big, dumb, brutish football with less technical class and acumen and tactically lagging), but the fact remains that it is a fast (the fastest), aggressive and physically taxing league. There's never been a point where you need to be fast, strong or powerful to play in it, but the smaller, agile players tend to be superb technically and more importantly, they process information and options optimally. From a Juninho or Zola to a Santi, Bernado or even Scholes, you don't have to be imposing to play in this league, but you have to be able to process and assimilate information and have the connective tissue to then act in accordance with what your brain is telling you to do. If you cannot do that, the league will devour you because then you are falling foul to the athleticism inherent in the league.

It is not a revelation, and it's not praise as the PL is its own entity whilst the CL is another entirely, and the only proving ground that matters when we talk about what teams across the continent can do at their best against opposing styles and philosophies. If you are to play in the PL, however, then it is obviously an important factor, and why going elsewhere is advised if the speed at which things happen in this league is too much to handle.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

Looked very promising at the start and has nosedived just like all of our other signings. Hopefully he leaves this absolute graveyard of a club and does well somewhere else.

 

[Fobal]

Sorry but you seem to have an issue with the perception of the league that you are conflating with a very simple statement that doesn't take even a shrewd eye to see. Faster and more powerful are certainly not synonyms for better and for a long time, it was used pejoratively when talking about the PL (big, dumb, brutish football with less technical class and acumen and tactically lagging), but the fact remains that it is a fast (the fastest), aggressive and physically taxing league. There's never been a point where you need to be fast, strong or powerful to play in it, but the smaller, agile players tend to be superb technically and more importantly, they process information and options optimally. From a Juninho or Zola to a Santi, Bernado or even Scholes, you don't have to be imposing to play in this league, but you have to be able to process and assimilate information and have the connective tissue to then act in accordance with what your brain is telling you to do. If you cannot do that, the league will devour you because then you are falling foul to the athleticism inherent in the league.

It is not a revelation, and it's not praise as the PL is its own entity whilst the CL is another entirely, and the only proving ground that matters when we talk about what teams across the continent can do at their best against opposing styles and philosophies. If you are to play in the PL, however, then it is obviously an important factor, and why going elsewhere is advised if the speed at which things happen in this league is too much to handle.

I have an issue with any notion than any League, from any period of the game believing its leaps and bounds above any traditional league and mostly, than even with differente levels, or plain different atributes or characteristics in general, are as important as many people tend to think for a player to actually play.
It was, it is and seems it will be an over simplication that opens the door to some very silly pre conceptions and even silly banter.

The other thing, more on point with current days and vastly spread in the forum and in general, it's that since more recently the EPL it's undoubetably the most powerfull League, those characteristics are shown, or even sell to an extreme as actually being better atributes or in many cases extremely hard to handle while in the majority of cases more important issues in the adaptation or merely level of any player land pretty much elsewhere, or better said, in way too many other factors.

Like I've said before, as a side effect, those over the top notions tend to be used more with foreigners, or with youngsters, yet when players already established deal with long periods of dips in form, fluctuations, those statements rarely rise their head and it's fine, because those dips aren't mostly base on the League itself and its characteristics. Also the treatment of the Bundelisga, the French Ligue, the Portuguese, even Serie A or the Spanish League etc also goes to far.
Finally speed is more of a factor if the team in question (you can be in a team that plays different from the predominant style) uses at main weapon, than with rivals. Of course the player in question will have to adapt, but like it would have to adapt if suddenly a new coach decides to play a less rock n roll style and such, or a more tactical approach. It never is a single aspect from any League too much to handle if the player has minimum pro quality. Yet lack confidence, lack timing, the team involved, fitness, mental health and a very large etc it's the real stuff that mainly makes hard to handle for any player any of the predominant characteristics of any certain League, not the other way around. There it's when it becomes harder and that could be the speed, the level of skills required for certain team and its style, the over the top predominance of a certain strategic approach, etc.

Anyway man, I'm derrailing a thread focused on a single player and worse, focused on a very especific subject of his perfomances, sorry for that. I leave it here to not disurpt even more the thread in question.

 

[moodyred]

Scored zero with Copenhagen, 9 with Strum and Atalanta. What makes anyone thinks he can become a prolific scorer and pay 70m for him. One who scouted him ought to be taken to task.

I have asked this question before we purchased him and was ridiculed for not supporting purchases that had potential to become world class.

 

[croadyman]

The decision to sign ‘hot Prospect’ Hojlund instead of Kane or Osimhen looks even more hilarious every week.
Worst striker in the league.

Yeah will never understand that decision ever

 

[Ted Lasso]

Scored zero with Copenhagen, 9 with Strum and Atalanta. What makes anyone thinks he can become a prolific scorer and pay 70m for him. One who scouted him ought to be taken to task.

I have asked this question before we purchased him and was ridiculed for not supporting purchases that had potential to become world class.

We've been burned on potential for years yet keep after it. Definitely a lingering symptom of the Woodward FM emulator era.

Buy a proven premier league player and pay the premium. Still would have been markedly cheaper.

 

[VictoriaRed]

Can't see this guy coming good, and I'm at a loss for words how our recruiting department felt that he was: A) Good enough to play for us and B) Pay that much. Shambolic. His first touch is so, so, so poor. If I'm the coaching staff, I'd have him staying after training working his hold up/link up play.

 

[aeh1991]

Scored zero with Copenhagen, 9 with Strum and Atalanta. What makes anyone thinks he can become a prolific scorer and pay 70m for him. One who scouted him ought to be taken to task.

I have asked this question before we purchased him and was ridiculed for not supporting purchases that had potential to become world class.

Yes this baffles me. €75m was crazy for an unproven talent. Especially considering Isak went to Newcastle for less money, just one year before Hojlund joined us. And Isak was much more proven back then. Also that we missed out on Sesko.

 

[Ekeke]

I think if we were a top 4 team and had a decent starting striker he'd be out on loan somewhere. That might still happen if we sign a proper starting forward in the summer depending on who we like more at the time, Zirkzee and Hojlund as a backup

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Marwood]

The upside to this is that it's a relatively simple fix. It's not some hidden, unexplainable reason as to why he's not scoring. The lad simply isn't in the box enough and/or getting the ball in the box enough.

How are the club not sorting this when we're told everything is hyper analysed by them?

Just go into games with the mentality of the ball must go into the box as much as possible. Rasmus has to have the mentality being in that area and demanding the ball.

It really us mostly about approach because we have enough of the ball in general.

 

[V.O.]

Bit weird how the next names on the list are Wood, Mateta and Delap, who are all having good to great seasons.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The upside to this is that it's a relatively simple fix. It's not some hidden, unexplainable reason as to why he's not scoring. The lad simply isn't in the box enough and/or getting the ball in the box enough.

How are the club not sorting this when we're told everything is hyper analysed by them?

Just go into games with the mentality of the ball must go into the box as much as possible. Rasmus has to have the mentality being in that area and demanding the ball.

It really us mostly about approach because we have enough of the ball in general.

This seems to be the catch 22 of Amorim's system - we want to keep the ball, to play our way forwards and the players seem to be instructed not to simply put it into dangerous areas and rarely cross it. So if you are a central striker, where are you getting your supply from? It is balls into feet (not Hojlund's game) and occasionally down the channel although Martinez is out now and he was the only defender really doing that to a high level.

This is why I don't understand how, especially now Amad is injured, we're not playing 3412 i.e. Bruno as sole 10 (his best role by far), Zirzkee as an old school striker 10 and Rasmus at 9 simply playing off the shoulder. Dalot and Dorgu wing backs on their natural foot and put the ball into the box with a bit of pace. Defensively, simply accept it's a deeper line for the rest of the season (suits all our CBs better anyway) and be more compact out of possession. When we get the ball, we have two longer ball options to Rasmus/Zirkzee, Bruno drifting as he likes to do and two WBs who will bomb on. There's enough protection to take risks if you play 3 CB and 2 CM but we have to gamble, Hojlund and Zirkzee are big units and will cause issues if you feed them - and crosses have such an element of jeopardy as well with deflections and clearances etc. I mean, it can't really get much worse than it is now.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The upside to this is that it's a relatively simple fix. It's not some hidden, unexplainable reason as to why he's not scoring. The lad simply isn't in the box enough and/or getting the ball in the box enough.

How are the club not sorting this when we're told everything is hyper analysed by them?

Just go into games with the mentality of the ball must go into the box as much as possible. Rasmus has to have the mentality being in that area and demanding the ball.

It really us mostly about approach because we have enough of the ball in general.

That’s literally the whole point of football. You can be 100% certain that everyone involved with the team wants the ball in the opposition box as much as possible. Wanting and getting are two different things though. Because the opposition team will want the ball to be outside their box as much as possible.

 

[acnumber9]

Does that mean Zirkzee averages more? If so, that points to Hojlund being the problem.

 

[dcrompton]

Bit weird how the next names on the list are Wood, Mateta and Delap, who are all having good to great seasons.

Yeah but their touches in the box include goals, Hojlund's touches don't.

 

[Marwood]

This seems to be the catch 22 of Amorim's system - we want to keep the ball, to play our way forwards and the players seem to be instructed not to simply put it into dangerous areas and rarely cross it. So if you are a central striker, where are you getting your supply from? It is balls into feet (not Hojlund's game) and occasionally down the channel although Martinez is out now and he was the only defender really doing that to a high level.

This is why I don't understand how, especially now Amad is injured, we're not playing 3412 i.e. Bruno as sole 10 (his best role by far), Zirzkee as an old school striker 10 and Rasmus at 9 simply playing off the shoulder. Dalot and Dorgu wing backs on their natural foot and put the ball into the box with a bit of pace. Defensively, simply accept it's a deeper line for the rest of the season (suits all our CBs better anyway) and be more compact out of possession. When we get the ball, we have two longer ball options to Rasmus/Zirkzee, Bruno drifting as he likes to do and two WBs who will bomb on. There's enough protection to take risks if you play 3 CB and 2 CM but we have to gamble, Hojlund and Zirkzee are big units and will cause issues if you feed them - and crosses have such an element of jeopardy as well with deflections and clearances etc. I mean, it can't really get much worse than it is now.

It might be the case it's the formation but I doubt it purely because we had the exact same problem throughout ETH's tenure.

That’s literally the whole point of football. You can be 100% certain that everyone involved with the team wants the ball in the opposition box as much as possible. Wanting and getting are two different things though. Because the opposition team will want the ball to be outside their box as much as possible.

Sure and sometimes you have to say the opposition were just really good at stopping us from playing.

But really how often do you feel that?

Spurs are as easy as it gets to create chances against. Whilst I thought there was a slight improvement you can just see the team reluctant to fully attack for some reason. Refusing to cross, refusing to play an overlapping fullback in, refusing one touch options.

First half against Leicester. You'd think we were up against prime Milan.

The dead giveaway is when we go a goal or two behind. All of a sudden we see that it's not the opposition, it's us. When we absolutely have to we can actually attack teams and create(to some extent).

It's a mindset or confidence. Said this before but the team and Rasmus need to start like we're a goal behind.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Bit weird how the next names on the list are Wood, Mateta and Delap, who are all having good to great seasons.

Fewer touches don't necessarily mean fewer goals, it's just what the media has chosen to focus on to sound clever.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Sure and sometimes you have to say the opposition were just really good at stopping us from playing.

But really how often do you feel that?

Spurs are as easy as it gets to create chances against. Whilst I thought there was a slight improvement you can just see the team reluctant to fully attack for some reason. Refusing to cross, refusing to play an overlapping fullback in, refusing one touch options.

First half against Leicester. You'd think we were up against prime Milan.

The dead giveaway is when we go a goal or two behind. All of a sudden we see that it's not the opposition, it's us. When we absolutely have to we can actually attack teams and create(to some extent).

It's a mindset or confidence. Said this before but the team and Rasmus need to start like we're a goal behind.

I think the main reason we have so few touches in the opposition box is because our attacking players aren’t good enough. Hojlund is a big factor in this. I doubt we’ll suddenly find ourselves camped in their box if we just change our attitude.

It does get better when we throw caution to the wind and go completely gung ho but that’s not sustainable. Anyone half decent will obliterate us on the counter if we do that from the start in every match.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It might be the case it's the formation but I doubt it purely because we had the exact same problem throughout ETH's tenure.

Re crosses specifically yes, which is the worry. It is no surprise that Pool usually top the table/are near the top for crosses given how offensively they use their FBs but Brighton - who play WBs are high up the table as well. When you think of how simple football really is, you need to get the ball into the box as regularly as you can and try to create as many chances as you can, it makes no sense to not be taking far more risks than we are now if we have to play 3CBs.

The shocking thing when you look at it, United haven't been in the top 10 for crosses a single year (bar 21/22 when we scraped in with 9th place) since Mourinho was here.

 

[Marwood]

I think the main reason we have so few touches in the opposition box is because our attacking players aren’t good enough. Hojlund is a big factor in this. I doubt we’ll suddenly find ourselves camped in their box if we just change our attitude.

It does get better when we throw caution to the wind and go completely gung ho but that’s not sustainable. Anyone half decent will obliterate us on the counter if we do that from the start in every match.

It's no a case of gung ho, more just taking the opportunity to get the ball in the box or make that forward pass when the chance is there.

There's a visible reluctance to do it which then evaporates when we're a goal down.

I think a more senior striker than Hojlund would be demanding it.

Re crosses specifically yes, which is the worry. It is no surprise that Pool usually top the table/are near the top for crosses given how offensively they use their FBs but Brighton - who play WBs are high up the table as well. When you think of how simple football really is, you need to get the ball into the box as regularly as you can and try to create as many chances as you can, it makes no sense to not be taking far more risks than we are now if we have to play 3CBs.

The shocking thing when you look at it, United haven't been in the top 10 for crosses a single year (bar 21/22 when we scraped in with 9th place) since Mourinho was here.

Didn't know that. Pretty crazy. Any striker is struggling with that in mind.

 

[lsd]

 

[Denis79]

what the feck is wrong with people?! If this is true...

 

[Brophs]

Hopefully they find the people responsible. At least we can rule out anywhere near the opposition goal when searching for them.