Rashford and Martial are a problem

Martial season has been stop / start with suspension . Granted he’s been poor today , don’t see any issue with Rashford and I’ve been a big critic of his since post lockdown.
He’s certainly playing better this season.
 
POF said:
You can add Greenwood and Pogba to that too. All very inconsistent players.

If any 2 of Rashford, Martial and Greenwood are in good form, this is a very good United team. But when out of form their level is extremely low and it completely nullifies the team's goal threat.

It's the problem with relying on young inexperienced players. It's good in the long term but can be costly to short term results. They won't be consistent and you get large fluctuations in performance levels.
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Greenwood's 20 though...
 
Offside said:
Is 25 not young? I’m not talking about him like he’s a kid I’m just saying he’s not the finished product yet and improved a lot last season.
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25 is supposed to be the start of a player's physical prime. If he's still not consistently putting in good performance by this age, it's a major concern going forward for us and him because we just can't trust a striker to keep fluctuating between 3/10 and 8/10 performance weekly.
 
POF said:
You can add Greenwood and Pogba to that too. All very inconsistent players.

If any 2 of Rashford, Martial and Greenwood are in good form, this is a very good United team. But when out of form their level is extremely low and it completely nullifies the team's goal threat.

It's the problem with relying on young inexperienced players. It's good in the long term but can be costly to short term results. They won't be consistent and you get large fluctuations in performance levels.
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Precisely my point in the OP.

We’re also full of inconsistent midfielders and defenders at the moment. Which doesn’t help. I remember being pleased at seeing a stat about us being one of the youngest teams in the league but there’s an obvious downside to being so reliant on youth.

It’s also a reason why Bruno’s had such a huge impact. Having a player heavily involved who is at an age where you can rely on him to play well in 4 out of 5 games makes such a massive difference to the team.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I felt the same. Although maybe a little less angry than you! It seems as though the likes of Maguire, Fred and Pogba are this season’s scapegoats (with a lot of the criticism well deserved) but today’s game really brought it home how Rashford and Martial playing poorly has been such a handicap so far this season.
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I guess Martial and Rashford still have last seasons good will saved up. But the tide is turning with Martial. Some strong criticism coming his way in his performance thread.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’d rather not turn this into Rashford vs Martial. The question is, can any fan of either player honestly say they’re consistently playing well enough to be the two main men up front for a club that is trying to win big trophies?
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I doubt this will be a problem this year. Not with Cavani and Greenwood around. Plus with the need to start 2 holding midfielders currently. Even Pogba wi push Rashford for a spot in the three behind the center forward.
 
Martial has had a really really bad start to the PL season but his top level is pretty fantastic. The issue is if he has the consistency to lead the line. His style of 9 offers very little in the absence of him affecting end product. In contrast, DCL who didn't have his best game today, still affected the game with basic number 9 play - he fought defenders, won flick ons and long balls.
 
If Poch comes in, no way Martial gets away with a performance like today's. It'll either make him or break him.
 
cyberman said:
Just the 4 goals and assists in 3 CL games. Nothing special, truly awful.
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1 was a pen for a start - in a game he was rubbish in. ‘Assists’ - not a great stat to judge anybody in. Eye test tells you his all round game hasn’t been good enough.

He has been well below par since the end of Europa League. Like I said he’ll have a purple patch that will fool us all again.
 
Rashfords passing is massively holding him back from being world class. Today he constantly over/under hit passes and ceded chances and possession. He gets away with it because of his pace and ability, he can do something out of nothing. Same can be said for Martial, he lets the game pass him by too often but can pull something out of nothing, so gets away with it.

We do often forget their age as they've been with our first team for so long, but they need to kick on for the rest of the season now.
 
JJ12 said:
His passing is sometimes fantastic.

7 goals and 3 assists in 11 games when apparently he isn’t even playing that well.

In this form I can’t see what Martial offers, at all.
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Some of those assists are just a pass to the player next to him though. Hes very deadly in front of goal though, but that doesnt mean hes playing well.
 
Rashford has the drive but is slightly short on having real top level talent. Martial has the talent but he just doesn’t want it enough
 
JJ12 said:
1 was a pen for a start - in a game he was rubbish in. ‘Assists’ - not a great stat to judge anybody in. Eye test tells you his all round game hasn’t been good enough.

He has been well below par since the end of Europa League. Like I said he’ll have a purple patch that will fool us all again.
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He also won 2 pens v PSG and Spurs? He wins an awful lot of the pens that we get.
 
Martial returns to the league and we score a few goals again, just like last season. Coincidence?
 
Rashford is in good form, but he's inconsistent. He makes some good moves only to mess up something easy next time. I don't like how he plays on the wing, he isn't a natural dribbler. The question is whether he can become more consistent with time, I'm quite optimistic.

Martial is out of form and not contributing much, I'd drop him for Greenwood at this point. But we definitely need at least two runners on the field so it's a hard decision.
 
Anyone calling Rashford consistent needs their eyes, head and ears examined. He's also NOT in good form.

As for Martial, he's been poor to OK this season but was much better than Mr Golden Boy last season for pretty much 90% of their games.

The two are very different players. Martial is the more talented one technically and can really play striker when he gets support and chances. Rashford pulls off the wonder strike from time to time which hides his poor decision-making and lack of football intelligence. He's also began doing a Rooney and playing these Hollywood balls which is not what he's good at.
 
Rashford would be one of the top players in the world if he had a real football brain. He is running around like a headless chicken at times(kick and rush), and he is also a coward when it comes to challenging opponents. The amount of aerial challenges he ducks out of is embarrassing at times. He is obviously a nice kid, and his stuff of the pitch should be paid tribute to, but he is very lucky to be a regular starter in a Utd team. Martial on the other hand does often make the right decisions on the pitch and on his day can be world-beating, he isnt as naturally unselfish with his running, to the point were you can see why lazy tag comes from, but out the two for me Martial is the better player, with Rashford having higher potential but you can only judge potential for so long, he needs to start showing maturity in his game, the older he gets.
 
The question I'm beginning to ask is, how long can we play with wingers who don't get to the byline and cross?

Rashford and Greenwood usually cut it back onto their stronger foot and try and maneuver in a crowded area, which is unusual for both wingers to be doing. I think they should be taught to cross or at least cut it back with their weaker foot for some hopefully easy chances for whoever is in the box.

The ironic part of it is that when Martial played wide, in addition to cutting inside he would also cross to Lukaku with his weaker foot (when they had that good partnership going) so who knows if he'd be better at that role than Rashford.
 
Both are great back up for inside forward and striker positions. We still need a consistent razor sharp finisher. Currently both will not start for any team with any sort of ambition. Shame really.
 
Martial has not been in sterling form so far this season, but we look far more toothless without him.

It showed last season when he was injured and it showed against Chelsea and Arsenal too.
 
He'sRaldo said:
The question I'm beginning to ask is, how long can we play with wingers who don't get to the byline and cross?

Rashford and Greenwood usually cut it back onto their stronger foot and try and maneuver in a crowded area, which is unusual for both wingers to be doing. I think they should be taught to cross or at least cut it back with their weaker foot for some hopefully easy chances for whoever is in the box.

The ironic part of it is that when Martial played wide, in addition to cutting inside he would also cross to Lukaku with his weaker foot (when they had that good partnership going) so who knows if he'd be better at that role than Rashford.
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I agree. The wingers we have bought and the strong links with Dembele suggests that we are looking for more creative outlet that offers different attributes to Rashford / Greenwood.

Martial when played wide offers a different dimension, he is more creative and his unselfishness gives us a different variety and unpredictability in his game IMO.

I'd like to see Martial to rotate with Rashford when Cavani is ready to start games for us
 
Both had poor games, it happens, but with having no threat down Everton's left side, they were able to funnel across, and double, or even treble up on them. Saying that though, both players were guilty of just poor decisions.
 
Are we not inconsistent in every area of the pitch apart from GK this season?
 
red woppit said:
Both had poor games, it happens, but with having no threat down Everton's left side, they were able to funnel across, and double, or even treble up on them. Saying that though, both players were guilty of just poor decisions.
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Nothing stopping them from moving to where there is space. Martial in particular as he’s playing through the middle.
 
I mean.. we did try to "replace" them with older and supposedly better players.
All except Zlatan ended up as huge disappointments.

Lukaku
Sanchez
Mkhitaryan

Doesn't really matter much that they are inconsistent. They still are piling up the goals and assists. Usually when one is down, the other will pick up what's left. Sometimes we'll also get both on fire. It's rare for them both to be down.
 
In Rainbows said:
Are we not inconsistent in every area of the pitch apart from GK this season?
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We are. This thread is about our inconsistency up top and the problem it’s causing us.

It’s also worth noting that the inconsistency is age-related. No coincidence that our most consistent performers are in their late twenties. If we’re to seriously compete with the big boys we need more players in our squad that age.

Basically, what I’m saying is. You won’t win anything with kids.
 
Rash needs to go back to the 'passing school' his distribution is appaling
 
I give Rashford credit for his champions league performance against PSG & RB Leipzig but his league performances has been absolutely shocking. Even before the covid break I never thought hes been that great. I think people hype him up because he's a manc and what he's done off the pitch. He's just not as good on it.

Martial has the same problem every year. Consitancy, its his problem since he came to us.

They will never be on the same level as Rooney, Van Nistlerooy & Van Persie
 
I have the feeling that none of them will become a world class striker / number 9. They will stay that way until the end of their careers. Different managers will just casually play them on the wings - left, right, some games as strikers, false 9s etc. There will be good games and bad games but they will be inconsistent as ever.

Dont know how to explain it but they both lack something - be it decision making, awarness, concentration, anticipation or football intelligence, its something which the best strikers have and Rashford and Martial dont. For example look at old videos of prime RVP, Falcao, Cavani, R9, Ruud, Etoo etc. and ask yourselves do you really see Rashford and Martial reaching such level playing as strikers / n9s ?
 
Hammondo said:
Some of those assists are just a pass to the player next to him though. Hes very deadly in front of goal though, but that doesnt mean hes playing well.
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I want my players to be able to score goals even when they are out of form. That’s the difference between rashford and martial
 
Really amazed me today how bad the hold up play was, seemed like Everton were camped outside our 18 yard box the whole second half.

If these two can't be arsed to put in a shift and press Ole should play players that will.
 
I tend to think they should be the perfect partnership, except we don't play them as a 2.

Martial sometimes goes a bit shy in front of goal, but his general play as a team player is MUCH better than Rashford.

Rashford on the other hard can score a lot when put in front of goal with little else to think about. Once he starts thinking he needs to get involved with the play he makes basic mistakes.

I'd like us to play a formation that lets them focus on building up a partnership with the sole intention of scoring goals. 3-5-2 would probably be most effective with Tells playing LWB. Fred, McT and Bruno in midfield.
 
Neither are consistent enough. I really don’t know why Martial is determined to play as a CF, it doesn’t suit his game.

The modern CF does much of the donkey work for the wide forwards. Why not give Cavani a run of games at CF and have Martial wide left and Rashford wide right?

I did say during the game that this is why Rashford frustrates me. Has it in his locker to produce moments of magic but more often these moments paper over the cracks of performances which can really stink the place out. I don’t think he found a red shirt once in the second half, constantly losing the ball when we tried to counter and it gave Everton the opportunity to keep building pressure
 
Am I the only one that thinks Rashford has been poor this season? More often than not he gives the ball away and kills a perfectly good move. He was in danger of costing us the game today with his sloppiness. Martial just as bad
 
Rashford has and will kick on. The reason Martial doesn't worry me and the main reason I like having Cavani in is that we already have Greenwood, so no real problem in the future. However, we do need more creativity from the front lines. I would seriously consider putting Pogba/VDB on the flanks this season
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’d rather not turn this into Rashford vs Martial. The question is, can any fan of either player honestly say they’re consistently playing well enough to be the two main men up front for a club that is trying to win big trophies?
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No, but I also don't think a Fred & McTominay midfield partnership and a Maguire & Lindelöf Centre back partnership are the level required to compete for the major trophies, the hope with Rashford and Martial is they are talented enough and young enough to hopefully produce their quality with more consistency. I know after this game people will be wanting Cavani start but anyone thinking he's got the legs to play week in and week out are kidding themselves, so Martial and Rashford are going to start for now, in fact I feel Rashford will be a constant fixture in the starting 11 no matter how his consistency progresses.
 
JohnnyKills said:
Rashford is fine. He's too greedy but his attitude is great. He'll end up an Henry-level talent I reckon.

Martial is a different story. Not sure what's going on between his ears at all. Get the feeling he needs really careful man-management, someone who can put an arm round his shoulder but also bollock him when necessary (like a cross between Ole and Mourinho basically).

If/when Pochettino comes in, I reckon Martial will one of the biggest improvers.
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That's a bit insulting how easily you say Henry-level. So you think Rashford has the capacity from his outlook now to be the premier league's greatest player?
 
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