Imagine these two with Sancho on the right. Our attack would be a completely different animal. When these two don't have that, they struggle to carry the team by themselves every game. I don't find it weird at all and wouldn't call them a problem for it.
Rashford and Martial are a problem
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran discuss a horrific month of December and a depressing FOUR defeats in a row - the latest coming against Wolves and Newcastle.
They discuss how much blame is on Ruben Amorim and rank our squad against other Premier League teams.
Do we have any chance of avoiding defeat at Anfield?
Rashfords radar was off today and he missed a handful of passes which could've been dangerous however you also can't ignore the threat he carried, skipped past Everton several times and you could see they were scared of him
Martials in one of his slumps atm he's always been massively streaky though so I'm sure he'll come good
The pair do need a third wheel though
Haaland would be nice
Martials in one of his slumps atm he's always been massively streaky though so I'm sure he'll come good
The pair do need a third wheel though
Haaland would be nice
Martial is turning 25 in a few weeks, let's stop talking like he's an academy player making his debut with the first team.
Personaally, especially considering how defensive our midfield is, I expect a lot more creativity from the front 3. The problem with our team and how we judge them is that we blame our midfield for everything...our attackers have not and do not provide enough actions ( creativity, attacking, passing) or involvement in play to justify the faith we have in them. Literally we have 3 players in attack that for some reason are not held responsible for creativity. This needs improvemet, Bruno cam't be working on his own.
No I didn't miss it.
Form is temporary and we have to look deeper. I'm not counting recent hatricks.
I feel that Rashford creates chances through his play, and I don't get that from Martial.
They really really annoyed me today. As a pair it was like watching two league two players who can’t be arsed playing a Pl game. We’d have scored eight if they were up for the game. They must have broken down about 25 different moves.
Rashford can be forgiven slightly more because he still showed for the ball. Martial was a complete disgrace.
Rashford can be forgiven slightly more because he still showed for the ball. Martial was a complete disgrace.
I think everybody missed that.
Too soon.
Martial has just come back and does look rusty, but I dont think its something to a worry about just yet.
Rashford was poor today but has 7 goals and 3 assists in 12 games. Those are good numbers.
Does he need to look after the ball more, yes, but cant argue with his end product at the moment.
Bit similar to Bruno, in that respect. Can have poor games but have the ability to win you games in the blink of an eye.
That being said, going forward, we do need someone to challenge Rashford on that left side, bur at the moment, I certainly wouldn't say they're a 'problem'.
Martial has just come back and does look rusty, but I dont think its something to a worry about just yet.
Rashford was poor today but has 7 goals and 3 assists in 12 games. Those are good numbers.
Does he need to look after the ball more, yes, but cant argue with his end product at the moment.
Bit similar to Bruno, in that respect. Can have poor games but have the ability to win you games in the blink of an eye.
That being said, going forward, we do need someone to challenge Rashford on that left side, bur at the moment, I certainly wouldn't say they're a 'problem'.
As long as forwards keep getting and making chances, goals and assists will come. We saw against Leipzig what happens when he gets hot.
He should have scored a great chance today 1-on-1, was another completely free option when Cavani scored his goal, and was millimetres from heading Bruno's cross in. Very fine margins.
The number of attacks that just stop when the ball goes to Martial are far too many. Yes he sometimes produces pieces of magic, but it is not sufficient to counter balance the number of times he loses the ball. He just is not good enough and together with his similarly endowed and defficient countryman should be sold and replaced.
If you truly felt Rashford had a good game today then fair enough but we are very far apart from our point of view.
Pretty ridiculous excuse. Unless it is sarcasm.
If he wasn't playing for a while, he should be all the more hungry and on top of his game. It is a different thing if he was coming back from a big injury or something.
A goal or assist every 85.5 minutes this season for Rashford and he’s been pretty rubbish
I thought you were meant to be a good poster. Something pretty rubbish here and it isn’t Rashford or Martial.
I believe that too often there is a bit of a fallacy around forwards where people get too results oriented in their thinking. The guy looks a handful in virtually every game and carries real threat. I will worry when has multiple games not offering anything going forward.
Him missing chances is better than him never getting the chances at all. Too often people believe the latter is the case.
Err who said that? He’s still young...
I agree with this but it’s very fine margins. We could have had 5 today but the game in turkey could have gone on for another 90 and we wouldn’t have won
I agree with this as it often changes people perception how a player has performed if they have scored or assisted.
But Rashford today has made poor decisions and poor passes in key attacking transitions, tried to run with the ball against multiple players with no end product. However I have no doubt if he had scored today people will say he had a good game.
We play better when Martial plays, not sure what it is but Rashfords passing today in particular was rubbish. Let’s hope now Cavani is here they might learn something
Rashford's problem he's involved a lot and makes a lot of bad decisions. 69% pass success today and was dispossessed a lot.
Martial the opposite he isn't involved much and you spend a lot of the game wondering where the hell he is.
Both contributed to our lack of control in the 2nd half against a dejected Everton.
Martial the opposite he isn't involved much and you spend a lot of the game wondering where the hell he is.
Both contributed to our lack of control in the 2nd half against a dejected Everton.
25 isn't young anymore, what the hell ? He's in his prime years now. He's past the point of being treated as a youngster.
It has been a weird season, and also a weird pre-season. I don't know, but it seems that at least for Martial it has been a rougher pre-season than usual. He was really good last season, and its not like his qualities just got lost in the summer. Our whole team has been inconsistent. I think Martial will get back to it now in desember/january.
It doesn't help that we have no right side. That has to be said. Bissaka is close to useless going forward, and both Mata and Greenwood out on the sides have not been a success.
It doesn't help that we have no right side. That has to be said. Bissaka is close to useless going forward, and both Mata and Greenwood out on the sides have not been a success.
In 06/07 we had Alan Smith and Louis Saha. Plus we signed Larsson on loan. also need to remember what a freak of nature Ronaldo was/is.
I don’t think Berbatov did improve us much but you can see that Fergie wasn’t comfortable relying on Roo/Ron as our main goalscorers and consistently tried to get some experience alongside them.
I think I need to end this post with some disclaimers, to head off obvious retorts (not from you, personally, just in general)
a) Nothing in the OP implies Ole’s management/coaching isn’t also problem. It may well be.
b) I’m not saying we need to sell (or even drop) either of them. Just that we’re going to remain inconsistent so long as we consistently rely so heavily on young players like these to be our primary goal threat. Hence every other elite club has at least one main attacker in his prime, age-wise (I think? Willing to be corrected on this)
c) It’s a long shot but Cavani might fix this problem. Fecking delighted to see him get off the mark anyway.
Just putting this post in here. (the above stats doesn't include todays win)
Fact is that unless we start Rashford and Martial we become a woeful, woeful team. We've done nothing to address this flaw in the Summer window and we don't have the players in the squad to fix it. Sancho was Ole's answer to the problem and the board didn't get him.
Exactly. Only 7 games into this season. Both will hit 20+ goals again. Both will match Salah’s and Mane’s numbers again.
We don’t even have a right winger mate, that should be our priority. the fact we are starting Mata says it all.
The only player younger than Anthony Martial to score more or as many PL goals as him last season, was, Marcus Rashford.
I wouldnt put Rashford anywhere near this type of criticism. Even when he's off his game he usually looks dangerous, and at his best he's a fairly regular match winner for us.
Martial i kind of get. I dont think anyone could claim to be completely convinced by him but then at the end of every season he seems to come away with a decent tally of goals. Hardly any presence though. Haaland would have quickly taken that spot and I suspect Cavani might do before too long.
Some time with France will help Martial but this is why we signed Cavani, he needs to be pushing the starters and if theyre not playing well enough he should start.
Agree they martial needs to gain consistency. Won't matter in a few months anyway though if the poch rumours are real
I felt the same. Although maybe a little less angry than you! It seems as though the likes of Maguire, Fred and Pogba are this season’s scapegoats (with a lot of the criticism well deserved) but today’s game really brought it home how Rashford and Martial playing poorly has been such a handicap so far this season.
There is no question of their top level. Problem is the second the going gets rough they break down and start sulking. And we don't have anyone in the team able to pull them out of it.
Rashford has been very good. Still rough around the edges, but always likely to produce something.
Martial, it's not working for him at the moment, but he's always been a confidence player despite his immense skill. He's not sulking and his head hasn't dropped, so I think he'll find his form.
They are not the ones I'm worried about. Even top strikers go through barren patches. I'm mostly worried by the lack of goal threat from the rest of the team (Bruno aside), and I'm worried about our CBs.
Martial, it's not working for him at the moment, but he's always been a confidence player despite his immense skill. He's not sulking and his head hasn't dropped, so I think he'll find his form.
They are not the ones I'm worried about. Even top strikers go through barren patches. I'm mostly worried by the lack of goal threat from the rest of the team (Bruno aside), and I'm worried about our CBs.
Well what games are you judging him on then? The games he was suspended for?
I thought one of Martials strength was close control in tight spaces, the ability to dribble past players but this season hes look so out of sorts
This is why stats are misleading. The bulk of his contributions this season have come against Newcastle and Leipzig. He scored good goals against PSG and Brighton but his general performance was quite poor in those games. He's been well below par in the other games this season especially in the PL where he's been disappointing.A goal or assist every 85.5 minutes this season for Rashford and he’s been pretty rubbish
I thought you were meant to be a good poster. Something pretty rubbish here and it isn’t Rashford or Martial.
Well today’s game is fresh in the memory, no?
Don’t think Martial will ever kick on and become the player we’d hoped. I like him and am happy for him to be part of the supporting cast, but that’s his level.
Still have hope for Rashford however.
Still have hope for Rashford however.
We don't nearly create enough chances for either, we rely solely on Bruno for that. We have a vacuum on the right, hardly any attacking threat or help from our fullbacks bar the odd game from Shaw, no creativity from central midfield, when we play with Fred and McTominay. On top of that Maguire's and Lindelof's passing isn't up to the standard to what we used to have to advance our play. This thread is frankly ridiculous, considering we wouldn't have finished 3rd without them last season and this season the whole team being as inconsistent as they have been.
Come on Pogue, Alan Smith was basically a mediocre midfielder by that point. Our league winning attack in 06/07 was Rooney, Ronaldo, Saha and Giggs. Until Saha got injured, and we brought in Larsson. They started almost every game, with Ole making a few cameos in his swansong.
That's not very far away from what we have now in terms of the typologies you're focusing on. Rooney was incredibly inconsistent throughout 06/07. Ronaldo was incredibly inconsistent prior to that point, then suddenly became consistent. So this looks more like the team midway through 05/06, potentially ready to explode.
A big part of our free flowing attack in 06/07 came from Carrick and Scholes providing a base that hadn't existed in years, and Evra and Vidic clicking into gear. With Cavani a direct Larsson comparison too, albeit Larsson made a very small impact. Our subsequent attacking signings in 2007 and 2008 arguably led to a less effective attack, in each year. Adding experience in attack certainly wasn't the missing piece, in any case. Having a great defence yo fall back on when the attackers misfired became increasingly important.
Can we give the two inconsistent attackers that kind of boosted support? Probably not. Are they potentially as good individuals. Probably not. But the general question of whether you can succeed with two inconsistent young attackers was raised in 2006 too. It has been asked and answered at this stage.