This! Slowly becoming the most important position to upgrade in the squad (and that’s allowing for RW and DM !!)
Absolutely need a player who will guarantee you 25 goals a season, you won’t win the league without one.
Rashford and Martial are a problem
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
Absolutely need a player who will guarantee you 25 goals a season, you won’t win the league without one.
At this point, I'm more surprised when they're not offside. When Rashford was offside for that late corner, I nearly laughed. When he had the ball on the counter before that, I had no faith that we were going to score from it. If it was Bruno and Cavani on the other hand...
I don't get why Ole left him on. He did nothing.
I don't know why we kept Rashford up top and Martial on the left for the entire game (well, until we bought Cavani on). Literally the only thing Rashford can do in that position is try to run in behind the defenders, and if that's not working he provides absolutely nothing else. Martial may have given them more trouble with his hold-up play and dropping into deeper areas and linking with others.
The more I see it, I don't think we can continue to play the two of them together. Sure both of them are still learning, but as Pogue alludes to you need to have a balance of experience and youth. Rashford and Martial are both really inconsistent (and I don't think they've got more consistent). There's only so much longer can you can continue an experiment before coming to a conclusion.
Had to win when we have to carry these two every single match. Bruno needs a rest.
Agreed. But then again I knew there was no chance of Rashford coming off instead of Martial. I was surprised Bruno came off at the end and Rashford stayed on.
Couldn’t agree more
Martial is 25. Study time is over.
Although I applaud the motive and the intent, the work Rashford has been doing away from football has massively sapped his hunger as a football player (no pun intended). He has received a lot of praise and even an award from the Queen, which is great for him as a person, but his performances have been very fitful this season. He has been given too much, too soon.
Personally speaking, it is great to see a football player showing a caring side for ordinary people, and I admire Rashford for what he has done off the pitch. It is just that as a Manchester United player his progress has flatlined and he has even arguably gone backwards.
As a pairing, Martial and Rashford just don't have the desire nor the instinct to be strikers for Manchester United. They don't bust a gut to get on the end of crosses, and they don't look too upset when they pass up opportunities. Ruud Van Nistelrooy lived for scoring goals. He would look absolutely devastated if he missed the kind of chances that our forwards spurn. The impression that I got was that he was in a foul mood if his name was not on the scoresheet and the same could be said for many of our other great strikers.
We need our forwards to have not only talent but the drive to score goals. We simply cannot go on like this as we need goals to win games and our strikers are scuppering our title bid right now.
Personally speaking, it is great to see a football player showing a caring side for ordinary people, and I admire Rashford for what he has done off the pitch. It is just that as a Manchester United player his progress has flatlined and he has even arguably gone backwards.
As a pairing, Martial and Rashford just don't have the desire nor the instinct to be strikers for Manchester United. They don't bust a gut to get on the end of crosses, and they don't look too upset when they pass up opportunities. Ruud Van Nistelrooy lived for scoring goals. He would look absolutely devastated if he missed the kind of chances that our forwards spurn. The impression that I got was that he was in a foul mood if his name was not on the scoresheet and the same could be said for many of our other great strikers.
We need our forwards to have not only talent but the drive to score goals. We simply cannot go on like this as we need goals to win games and our strikers are scuppering our title bid right now.
A year ago I'd get really defensive over Martial (I was never really in either fanboy camp), but I'm starting to feel the same way
I still will defend Rashford because even if he's looking iffy he can still make things happen. Martial is just Martial.
Rashford massively needs to improve decision making, Martial has so much work to do, and he's not a kid anymore.
Rashford massively needs to improve decision making, Martial has so much work to do, and he's not a kid anymore.
I think it’s because they are quite similar we are easier to defend against. They are always trying to score the perfect goal and have no desire to get into the 6 yard box and gamble or tussle with centre backs. It’s ok for a counter attacking team but it didn’t work today. If Pogba keeps up this form and commitment and somehow stays then I’d be all over Haaland too. Better the devil you know I suppose...
They are very good players but I feel they are too greedy, they could assist a lot more, there’s no I in team as they say...
I have dared to say it before, (and got a lot of slack) I’m not a massive fan of martial as a striker, he just doesn’t score enough. If we’re going to win the league our main striker needs to be firing! 20+ goals a season! If he could improve in the box he would be better. (Get learning off Cavani) get them scrappy goals. Rashford needs to work on his assist record and focus more on the team scoring and less on being the hero.
We really need a top right winger, a top top goal scorer (poacher) and a world class CDM. That’s without mentioning a cb. Also if pogba leaves we’re going to have to replace him too.
I have dared to say it before, (and got a lot of slack) I’m not a massive fan of martial as a striker, he just doesn’t score enough. If we’re going to win the league our main striker needs to be firing! 20+ goals a season! If he could improve in the box he would be better. (Get learning off Cavani) get them scrappy goals. Rashford needs to work on his assist record and focus more on the team scoring and less on being the hero.
We really need a top right winger, a top top goal scorer (poacher) and a world class CDM. That’s without mentioning a cb. Also if pogba leaves we’re going to have to replace him too.
If Rashford can up his tempo and decision making he will be the complete player. Martial is a player who you don't know what you'll get, he is going through a drought and playing him is the only way to get him back on form.
Either way we need a centre forward and RW and I don't think we should rely on both of them for now!
Either way we need a centre forward and RW and I don't think we should rely on both of them for now!
They are very good players but I feel they are too greedy, they could assist a lot more, there’s no I in team as they say...
I have dared to say it before, (and got a lot of slack) I’m not a massive fan of martial as a striker, he just doesn’t score enough. If we’re going to win the league our main striker needs to be firing! 20+ goals a season! If he could improve in the box he would be better. (Get learning off Cavani) get them scrappy goals. Rashford needs to work on his assist record and focus more on the team scoring and less on being the hero.
We really need a top right winger, a top top goal scorer (poacher) and a world class CDM. That’s without mentioning a cb. Also if pogba leaves we’re going to have to replace him too.
we’re a good side but the two games against the big guns (city and Liverpool) have shown we’re a way off yet. Loving the progress and enjoying this moment though.
I have dared to say it before, (and got a lot of slack) I’m not a massive fan of martial as a striker, he just doesn’t score enough. If we’re going to win the league our main striker needs to be firing! 20+ goals a season! If he could improve in the box he would be better. (Get learning off Cavani) get them scrappy goals. Rashford needs to work on his assist record and focus more on the team scoring and less on being the hero.
We really need a top right winger, a top top goal scorer (poacher) and a world class CDM. That’s without mentioning a cb. Also if pogba leaves we’re going to have to replace him too.
we’re a good side but the two games against the big guns (city and Liverpool) have shown we’re a way off yet. Loving the progress and enjoying this moment though.
I thought Martial did okay. Rashford on the hand was way too eager. After his back injury, he doesn't go for those 50-50 challenge in the air. We missed a trick by not playing Cavani
Rashford has 7 league goals from 18 games, so just under that 1 in 2 ratio that you ideally want from a striker. His decision making is painful and it wasn't great today. But, I still always get the feeling that he could do something. Even with these stats, unless he has a horrific end to the season and doesn't score more than 4 goals, he will have at least his second best (league) season with us, stats wise. Technically, in all comps, he's already having his second best season.
Martial, on the other hand, 2 from 14 league games. That's harder to justify. 5 from 22 in all comps. This is not good enough.
I'm a bit tired of the Rashford/Martial combo and the "partnership" isn't doing what we think it is doing or expect it to do. We absolutely need to bring in a top class striker in the next window. I'm not seeing enough from Martial to justify him being the starting striker for Manchester United.
Martial, on the other hand, 2 from 14 league games. That's harder to justify. 5 from 22 in all comps. This is not good enough.
I'm a bit tired of the Rashford/Martial combo and the "partnership" isn't doing what we think it is doing or expect it to do. We absolutely need to bring in a top class striker in the next window. I'm not seeing enough from Martial to justify him being the starting striker for Manchester United.
If rashford had passed to cavani instead of running across the box towards the corner flag then i don't have any doubt that cavani would have buried it.
They were as much of an issue to United’s play today as Sane and co were for Liverpool. Game wasn’t a match for attackers to shine, we created next to nothing and none of our good chances fell to our attackers. You’d honestly think they‘d both missed a few sitters by the reactions in here.
All the Liverpool attacking players are leagues ahead of ours. This really was the biggest difference between us and them.
People complaining about Rashford-Martial being extremely poor today, yet Maguire and Shaw utterly cancelled Salah-Firmino off.
This is the key, the context of our play which people are missing. We are not imposing ourselves in big games. One poster replied saying we had three of the games best chances, having three chances and the team imposing themselves is almost mutually exclusive. Burnley or WBA can create chances but the frequency and the manner in which they are created is what differentiates them from a Bayern / City etc.
The biggest influence of us performing in big games will come from whatever the players are doing behind closed doors and also the mentality the manager is instilling into the players before games.
We have one player who needs extra training on what he should post on Twitter and we’ve another player who needs extra training on the rules of the game .
Eh?
I get a few quoted messages disagreeing with me when I say Rashford & Martial's inconsistency costs us more than our often average/bad defending does.
People are fine to disagree with it, but I stand by the point and it's becoming more evident the longer this stuff happens.
I remember someone saying in a game not too long ago that they didn't celebrate a goal, purely because they were convinced Rashford would be flagged offside. I did the same thing. How often is Rashford offside? And Martial for that matter. I wouldn't be surprised if Marcus in particular has been offside the most this season. Surely he doesn't need to be? And by now someone must have told him to try and hold his runs a fraction longer? So many times he is even looking across the line, is offside, stays offside, and expects the pass. It's baffling. It's like he doesn't even know the rules sometimes!
If they don't become more clinical, more composed, more street wise etc soon, we will not win trophies.
I'd like to see Cavani down the middle and Greenwood on the right for an extended period, with Rashford & Martial battling it out for that left side position.
People are fine to disagree with it, but I stand by the point and it's becoming more evident the longer this stuff happens.
I remember someone saying in a game not too long ago that they didn't celebrate a goal, purely because they were convinced Rashford would be flagged offside. I did the same thing. How often is Rashford offside? And Martial for that matter. I wouldn't be surprised if Marcus in particular has been offside the most this season. Surely he doesn't need to be? And by now someone must have told him to try and hold his runs a fraction longer? So many times he is even looking across the line, is offside, stays offside, and expects the pass. It's baffling. It's like he doesn't even know the rules sometimes!
If they don't become more clinical, more composed, more street wise etc soon, we will not win trophies.
I'd like to see Cavani down the middle and Greenwood on the right for an extended period, with Rashford & Martial battling it out for that left side position.
Salah/Firminho can afford to be poor. They have won a league title, champions league title, etc. They have enough credits in the bank to be poor.
What hath Martial-Rashford won?
Rashford and martial need conpetition to improve.. right bow neither is good enough. Ifnwe win thebleague with them upfront than ole truly is a miracle worker
Yet he still scored 29 goals in 74 apps in a team with Cantona and Hughes in it. Also had two broken legs during this period.
For context Martial has 54 goals in 159 appearances.
I'm actually not that concerned about Martial. He is still a silky player, he creates space with his dribbling, and I feel danger when he has the ball. Martial needs to just get that first goal out of the way and aim think we'll see the best out of hi.
With Rashford however, I am worried. He plays like a rookie sometimes and makes the wrong decisions on an alarming rate. I can cut him some slack for that, because he usually turns up with a crucial or an assist that gives us points in the end of the game.
Both Martial and Rashford has stuff to work and improve on, but I'd say Rashford has a lot more than Martial.
Are we ever going to see them both on top-form? It seems that either Rashford is one fire or Martial is, never at the same time, or they're both in a bad patch. If these lads wants to win trophies with United they need to perform on a high level consistently and that "they're young" excuse isn't going to work much longer.
With Rashford however, I am worried. He plays like a rookie sometimes and makes the wrong decisions on an alarming rate. I can cut him some slack for that, because he usually turns up with a crucial or an assist that gives us points in the end of the game.
Both Martial and Rashford has stuff to work and improve on, but I'd say Rashford has a lot more than Martial.
Are we ever going to see them both on top-form? It seems that either Rashford is one fire or Martial is, never at the same time, or they're both in a bad patch. If these lads wants to win trophies with United they need to perform on a high level consistently and that "they're young" excuse isn't going to work much longer.
Well he had a good season last one but has inexplicably reverted to being shit this one. He carries no goal threat. Maybe he will have a strong second half to the season.....we need it if we are going to sustain a challenge.
We need serious competition for their places
We will NEVER win the league with Rashford and Martial on the pitch. Nothing has changed really in 7 years - we still need world class strikers, and it has taken the arrival of Cavani to show them both up for their lack of ability.
They are both in desperate need of upgrade. Martial was anonymous and Rashford just completely incompetent.
Martial did play better than Rashford today but it's a major issue having both in the team at the moment.
Both need a more senior player to take the pressure off them. And Rashford needs to stop being used as a sacrificial pony and moved across the front line every week.
Nah in fairness they were both a big reason we finished third last season (and that’s coming from somebody who is critical of both, especially Martial.)
Ole’s trying to play them into form again but they aren’t rewarding him for his faith in them.
Cavani should be the first choice no 9 going forward with these two taking turns on the wing.
We should be going ALL OUT for Haaland.
We are clearly short of one top class attacking player, that’s been obvious for some time.
Our attackers were poor today but in the big games we starve of them of the ball and expect them to make most of limited opportunities. When it works it looks good and when it doesn’t it looks terrible.
Our attackers were poor today but in the big games we starve of them of the ball and expect them to make most of limited opportunities. When it works it looks good and when it doesn’t it looks terrible.
You also need to include Greenwood in that statement. I can’t remember a time when our supposed best three attackers have all been so off form. If anything is going to bring our chances of success this season to an end, I think it’s this situation.
Martial does a lot of work off the ball and his holdup play is really good but other than that he has been poor, I'm not sure whether it's just the system that doesn't suit him or whether he is going through a ad patch. A year or two ago he had the world at his feet but he just hasn't pushed on, it seems like as he is maturing he is getting worse, I want to see the raw Martial again, the player that get's in behind or dribbles past someone and calmly slots the ball home.
I think they’re both average footballers whose trajectory hasn’t gone the way we hoped when they were fresh faced.
Rashford plays as if he is unaware of his limitations. Again something maybe an asset when he’s young and making his way in the world. When you’re nearly 300 games in for club and country and you still don’t know what your limitations are it’s a concern.
Rashford game has improved very little since he became established. He’s capable of scoring goals but I’m not sure any of the top 7 clubs in any of the top leagues in Europe would be falling over themselves to sign him. He’s benefited massively from playing for a side, despite our historic dip, still by and large have created more chances than most other teams we play against. If he was leading the line for a mid table side he’d be lucky to get 10 league goals a season
I’m not sure it’s form either. I think sadly we’ve seen him reach his limit. He may be here until he’s 33 and he’ll still be playing with his head down refusing to pass, thinking he gets points for just running the ball into a wall and nixing chance after chance, week after week.
Marital is at least aware of his team mates. Rashford is spectacularly ignorant of almost everything around him almost all the time.
At which point, almost 300 senior games in do we stop pretending this is something he’ll grow out of and start accepting this is the player he is and these are the limitations he’ll always have and decide whether or not it’s going to be good enough for what we want to kick on and achieve?
Rashford plays as if he is unaware of his limitations. Again something maybe an asset when he’s young and making his way in the world. When you’re nearly 300 games in for club and country and you still don’t know what your limitations are it’s a concern.
Rashford game has improved very little since he became established. He’s capable of scoring goals but I’m not sure any of the top 7 clubs in any of the top leagues in Europe would be falling over themselves to sign him. He’s benefited massively from playing for a side, despite our historic dip, still by and large have created more chances than most other teams we play against. If he was leading the line for a mid table side he’d be lucky to get 10 league goals a season
I’m not sure it’s form either. I think sadly we’ve seen him reach his limit. He may be here until he’s 33 and he’ll still be playing with his head down refusing to pass, thinking he gets points for just running the ball into a wall and nixing chance after chance, week after week.
Marital is at least aware of his team mates. Rashford is spectacularly ignorant of almost everything around him almost all the time.
At which point, almost 300 senior games in do we stop pretending this is something he’ll grow out of and start accepting this is the player he is and these are the limitations he’ll always have and decide whether or not it’s going to be good enough for what we want to kick on and achieve?