biggest problem is no one is sure of either of them's best position, is it LW or ST, especially with Martial he must be what 25ish now, he should be about to come in to his prime, both good players but both inconsistent, Rashford will get more time because hes a bit younger as well but considering the wages they are both on they should be consistant performers for the club
Rashford and Martial are a problem
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
They are both a natural fit on the left wing, too inconsistent and not physically competitive enough to lead the line week on and out on the PL. Jose was right about this. Martial seems to wilt under any adversary or competition for his spot at all. He’s the next most saleable asset so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him and Pogba sold this summer. Cant blame ole he’s tried and tried with both. Rashford is our most frustrating player to watch by a mile. Headless, he’s only good playing on on instinct and he wastes too many chances. He should have been dropped and played back into form but our squad is so poor there is literally only Dan James who we overused and sapped him of all confidence. It’s the owners not the manager who provides the finished Roster at the end of the day. Going into our 3rd year of a want away star midfielder. A converted winger playing striker. Free transfers and loans up front and new longer deals for older and injured players. I doubt any manager wins the league with this team.
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Coaching is the problem. Like Arsene Wenger said we are not coached at all.
Sometimes they are nullified completely by the set up. Come on, that game vs Leipzig or City, you really think Ronaldo or Messi could have done better if they played in such a negative setup?
We just put our strikers in horrible positions where they constantly have to go 1 on 3 and there are no plays for them or anything.
Unless there is a case of individual brilliance, we are getting nothing. Good example is Cavani vs Southampton. Just individual brilliance. There was no planning to it, just his pure instinct.
What is the last goal that was a great team goal that we scored? They dont happen often, do they. Its mostly penalties or something lucky.
Sometimes they are nullified completely by the set up. Come on, that game vs Leipzig or City, you really think Ronaldo or Messi could have done better if they played in such a negative setup?
We just put our strikers in horrible positions where they constantly have to go 1 on 3 and there are no plays for them or anything.
Unless there is a case of individual brilliance, we are getting nothing. Good example is Cavani vs Southampton. Just individual brilliance. There was no planning to it, just his pure instinct.
What is the last goal that was a great team goal that we scored? They dont happen often, do they. Its mostly penalties or something lucky.
Neither are number 9's. It so obvious now. Mourinho was right about that he saw it straight away.
Rashford has improved every year (he's twice the player he was from 2016) but still lacks consistency.
Martial is just lazy and lacks the determination. His best season was his first season 5 years ago!
Rashford has improved every year (he's twice the player he was from 2016) but still lacks consistency.
Martial is just lazy and lacks the determination. His best season was his first season 5 years ago!
He scored way more goals last season than any other previous ones.
Good point, and no they don’t. It’s why I find our football so difficult to watch these days.
Martial's goal scoring form was very consistent last season. Scored or assisted 5 in all of our FA Cup games, the longest he went without scoring in the PL was 4 games, within which period he assisted 2. No one was expecting this kind of drop off, in fact the expectation was he'd kick on yet again.
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You really have to wonder if people saying that can actually remember last season, let alone his debut. He was the driving force behind our front 3 scoring as many as Liverpool's front 3 ffs!!
Really? Without thinking much 3nd goal vs west ham by Rashford. Bruno's goal against Newcastle which hit top right corner.
You have fallen into the Internet narrative of "we score only Penalty goals" my friend.
Out 2 top scorers from last season together with Greenwood out scoring most front 3 are a problem? Most of those goals were not even clear cut chances. How about a midfield unit that is incapable of defending and attacking at the same time?
If you can't remember our team goals then you need to watch more of ours games.
I very much agree with this, Rashford and Martial are the type of players who need space around them to show their qualities, when they are getting the ball with the back at the opposing goal and have 3 players around them obviously they are nullified.
I think coaching cannot turn anything to everything, some of talent such as personal style, mentality, football sense etc cannot be taught by coach. So that why all managers in football must need to buy players to fill into their tactic style rather than coaching a player to the player who are the manager's want. Also, Wenger have no any well coached products breakthough since 2010 era.
Both of our strikers exclude Cavani are leak of back to goal skill, they always like to turn and break down opposite by himself but rarely. If a striker who can hold up the ball and wait others to come up then the team would improve a lot. So you will see that they constantly have to go 1 on 3 when turn successful or loss the ball immediately when back to goal.
Coaching can coach someone who have that skill potential but not to be used. In our young strikers, i cannot see that they have some potential for off the ball often, back to goal skill, pass the ball in a 2 on 1 situation under a must win pressure. You cannot turn Bebe to Beckham or C.Ronald with their skill set under a well coach condition.
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Arsene Wenger coached the Arsenal team really well in his last years?
Liepzig was just a very bad start to the game, team and tactics were wrong. City was something he had to do, you cannot go out the champions league and go and open up to City who love spaces. That would be very naive.
Its as if fans want Ole to open up and get beat so that the Ole out can say told you so.
We had a chance where we were 4 v 2 on a couple occassions. We were not playing a team that leaks goals left right centre, it was their 6th clean sheet in a row.
I want you to go have a look at Ronaldo's goals for United and check how many Individually brilliant goals he scored in the 08 campaign. Does that mean you didn't rate Fergie?
I guess you do not watch our football? we have scored alot of good team goals, Brighton, Newcastle, Leipzig, Everton were all good goals.
Please go check, which club has most penalties in the PL, its not Manutd. Go check which teams score from opponents mistakes, not us.
I'm one of the Ole outs who want to give him all the time in the world. I'm 100 percent convinced that he's not good enough to win us the league. I'll wait. I want to see how the Ole ins and the pundits handle his impotence when 5 years have gone by and the football gods haven't turned Ole into Fergie mark 2. For now enjoy your stats, enjoy your moral high ground. We'll see who turns out to be right. I have all the time in the world.
Yes Martial scored more goals last season but his performance levels in the majority of his first season with his 17 goals was miles better. That season was the reason why so many were excited about his potential.
Sadly he's failed to live up to those heights.
thats football
He was better overall last season
Why do you care more about being right than seeing the team do well?
Thats quite an odd position to be taking.
Thread/
Are you sure you're a United Fan?
I disagree. But either way whether that’s what you think or what I think about his performance level, but both of us can’t deny that end product number is the most important thing for attackers and last season Martial scored much more goals.
in your opinion.
Anyway my point is Martial has been given enough time (FIVE years)
He's way too unreliable to be relied upon
They are both frustrating for different reasons.
Rashford works hard, tries hard, makes good direct runs, generally pops up with important goals but, in my opinion, isn't all that good technically (compared to Utd forwards of the past) and is definitely more suited to playing out wide for me.
Martial is a very strange character. I have a theory that most of his life has been easy for him. Dominated Youth football, hyped up as a superstar from a young age, transferred for £7m at 16, transferred to one of the biggest clubs in the world at 18 for up to £55m...I'm worried that everything has come so easily, so naturally, he has never really had to knuckle down and graft to make something happen.
Martial on-form and confident is one of our best players. Martial in his current state, low on confidence, poor body language, lack of intensity etc...is like playing with 10 men. There's never anything in between. Never turns a bad performance into a good one with a scrappy goal or by working hard to force a mistake or help the team defend.
How many strikers do we see have poor matches and then pop up with a goal and suddenly it becomes a good performance? These two need to master that art of being a bloody nuisance and nicking poachers goals even when the tricks and flicks aren't coming off
Rashford works hard, tries hard, makes good direct runs, generally pops up with important goals but, in my opinion, isn't all that good technically (compared to Utd forwards of the past) and is definitely more suited to playing out wide for me.
Martial is a very strange character. I have a theory that most of his life has been easy for him. Dominated Youth football, hyped up as a superstar from a young age, transferred for £7m at 16, transferred to one of the biggest clubs in the world at 18 for up to £55m...I'm worried that everything has come so easily, so naturally, he has never really had to knuckle down and graft to make something happen.
Martial on-form and confident is one of our best players. Martial in his current state, low on confidence, poor body language, lack of intensity etc...is like playing with 10 men. There's never anything in between. Never turns a bad performance into a good one with a scrappy goal or by working hard to force a mistake or help the team defend.
How many strikers do we see have poor matches and then pop up with a goal and suddenly it becomes a good performance? These two need to master that art of being a bloody nuisance and nicking poachers goals even when the tricks and flicks aren't coming off
If end product (eg goals) is what you soley judge attackers on what do you make of Lukaku's 27 goals in 51 games for us in 2017/18 season?
Lukaku is a good striker. There is a reason why Inter still paid lot of money for him. His only issue is just his first touch. But Martial’s first touch last season wasn’t his issue at all.
End of the day, for attackers you look at their end product. Martial is attackers and should be judged based on his goals. We don’t talk about his first touch like Lukaku because we are all know his first touch is good.
Newcastle? Everton? Even Cavanis goals at Soton to a degree. Any of the Leipzig goals?
Rashford has 10 Goals and 5 Assists in 19 Appearances this season. Of course, he got a hat-trick in one game and he has misfired a lot in the Premier League, but one goal in two used to be considered good and I still think it is, especially when you're chalking up Assists as well. Rashford is actually only one Goal and one Assist behind Bruno (having played a game more albeit, despite very similar minutes overall).
Martial is in a bit of a slump, however, with 2 Goals & 2 Assists in 12 Appearances, but he has been injured more and got a Red Card to boot.
They can both be frustrating to watch as they seem to miss a lot of chances, but I honestly think that if we had Salah, or Sterling, we'd be saying the same thing. They miss so many chances, but still managed to be high in the scoring charts. They should score even more than they do, but they typically score enough to get their team places. Main difference is they play for better teams.
Rashford & Martial I think are very similar, with Martial getting 23 Goals / 12 Assists & Rashford 22 Goals / 12 Assists last season. I suppose we should expect them to improve and I'd argue Rashford is well on course to do that. We have played probably 33% of the season, give or take, so this 'form' Rashford is on should lead to bettering both his Goals and Assists from last term. If he can improve his finishing more, he might get 30 Goals. Would we be saying he is a problem then? Martial definitely does need find his finishing boots soon though, as I'd say he is at danger of being dropped for Cavani for a long period.
Martial is in a bit of a slump, however, with 2 Goals & 2 Assists in 12 Appearances, but he has been injured more and got a Red Card to boot.
They can both be frustrating to watch as they seem to miss a lot of chances, but I honestly think that if we had Salah, or Sterling, we'd be saying the same thing. They miss so many chances, but still managed to be high in the scoring charts. They should score even more than they do, but they typically score enough to get their team places. Main difference is they play for better teams.
Rashford & Martial I think are very similar, with Martial getting 23 Goals / 12 Assists & Rashford 22 Goals / 12 Assists last season. I suppose we should expect them to improve and I'd argue Rashford is well on course to do that. We have played probably 33% of the season, give or take, so this 'form' Rashford is on should lead to bettering both his Goals and Assists from last term. If he can improve his finishing more, he might get 30 Goals. Would we be saying he is a problem then? Martial definitely does need find his finishing boots soon though, as I'd say he is at danger of being dropped for Cavani for a long period.
On this though, the MOTD analysis is painful to watch with the lack of urgency for Rashford to get in the box. It's just not his game and I don't think he's going to do it. Martial did it a lot more last year, but seems to have reverted to type a bit. I have more hope for Martial in the 9 role than Rashford. Those two plus a proper no 9 is the dream though.
Agreed thoroughly.
Did Wenger really say that? Great, good to know that yet another "footballing brain" shares our view.
They no doubt were, the problem is lack of consistency. Rashford have been alright this season, but not quite at the same level he was last year. Martial have been brutal.
Last season i would have argued the latter was one of our most important players, but this season has been utter shambles. Every player goes through bad patches of from, but i dont think i can remember a player whose level drops that much as it does with Martial. Which also makes me question his long term future at the club.
If we want to compete for the big honours, we cant afford to have our main CF completely disappear for 1/3 of the season
Exactly, the bolded part is the difference between current United and last season post-lockdown golden period. We had 3 strikers firing on all cylinders, and they were scoring great goals every game. This season they can't finish easy chances.
So, the midfield. What about it?
Rashford is having similar season to last 2, he's an average striker in terms of finishing but he contributes to overall game. He's got good numbers because the team creates more good chances.
Martial has been very good in terms of shot conversion into goals in the last few seasons, his "normal" service is what we're really missing now. Greenwood had a fantastic season too, but it's hard to say if that was luck or he's an exceptional striker. Yet to be seen.
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Rashford is just as bad. Both their bottom levels are brutal
Marcus Rashford is a terrific young talent. His game is still improving, and he has grown into an absolute essential member of the club and the team. He is young, has led and inspired our team on numerous occasions, and this development has taken place during a period when we have been pretty average. His game is still maturing, so it should at his age, but he is a v v good footballer, and what Rashford needs are more experienced heads around him. I would love to see him playing off Cavani on a consistent basis.
Anthony Martial???? We are still having this conversation?
If people, seriously, cannot evaluate Martial's game, after some FIVE YEARS, then I have to question how some assess the game of football. I really do.
Anthony Martial is not good enough to be our centre forward, unless we want to continue to be an average, Europa League team, battling to stay within the top six, and hopefully top four, year in year out.
We should cash in, and buy someone else. There are better Forwards out there.
I think he is wildly over-rated. No consistency. No inspiration. No Leadership. Is not clinical. Is not reliable. Look at Mane. Son. Sterling. Even Mahrez ffs. They have a huge impact on their respective teams, even when they are not scoring. Martial just goes missing.. for months!
How can some want to retain him to be our No 9? I find it quite strange.
OGS obviously thinks different and sorted him with a big healthy new contract. Madness.
Anthony Martial???? We are still having this conversation?
If people, seriously, cannot evaluate Martial's game, after some FIVE YEARS, then I have to question how some assess the game of football. I really do.
Anthony Martial is not good enough to be our centre forward, unless we want to continue to be an average, Europa League team, battling to stay within the top six, and hopefully top four, year in year out.
We should cash in, and buy someone else. There are better Forwards out there.
I think he is wildly over-rated. No consistency. No inspiration. No Leadership. Is not clinical. Is not reliable. Look at Mane. Son. Sterling. Even Mahrez ffs. They have a huge impact on their respective teams, even when they are not scoring. Martial just goes missing.. for months!
How can some want to retain him to be our No 9? I find it quite strange.
OGS obviously thinks different and sorted him with a big healthy new contract. Madness.
When did he say that? There was some fake quotes doing the rounds last season that he had his eye on the United job, but they were in fact...fake
If he had actually said that, it would have made some headlines.
Bruno vs Brighton last season probably.
This is exactly what is wrong with the whole Ole In and Ole out debate. We are supporters of the team, and not here to win some moral high ground on being able to predict the future.
Evidence so far says it's 50:50 for Ole to be able to succeed here. If that changes, so be it. But I am going to hope that he succeeds as he is our current manager and is clearly doing a decent enough job so far.
that’s very fair. I’m Ole in, and understand the changes that he’s made, and that you can’t chance a team overnight. I’d love him to succeed, and I think a 50/50 chance is about right.
just look at the table, whilst we have been inconsistent, so has everyone else. I believe we have the best base to move forward and be successful since Fergie left. Whether the next phase is with Ole in charge? You never know in football.
But if a new manager came in the summer - he’s got a better squad, better mentality and better future than when Moyes. LVG and Jose left Utd.
Rashford and Martial have both missed some crucial chances this season but I think Martial has missed sitters in the UCL. He could've scored so many goals and won us many games but he missed his chances and that's why I think we need a better striker. Martial must play from the left and Rashford should shift to the right. Rashford is a clever player and I think he can learn very quickly. If he manages to play 5-6 games on the right hand side, he'll start to do newer things and we'll be able to widen the play in front of the opposition goal. We've suffered a lot without a proper right sided forward and I think Rashford can as well play there. We need Cavani in the middle or maybe we can try Greenwood in the middle because he goes to the middle even while he's supposed to play on the right. Rashford holds the line so well, I was impressed in the Istanbul game at OT. I suggested this idea on the caf a long time ago.
This was surely Martial’s chance to show his worth. Got to be time to move him on. No good even having a back up like him.