Rashford and Martial are a problem

They are a problem because they are copies of each other and we don't really need 2 in the team. One needs to learn to play on the right predominantly. Don't care if it's Rashford or Martial
 
spiriticon said:
One needs to learn to play on the right predominantly. Don't care if it's Rashford or Martial
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I’d rather neither learn to play on the right and we buy somebody who can actually play on the right. I’ve seen enough now to know we will struggle with these two in the same team. Some matches it works but it struggles more often. Possible the weakest attacking front line in all my years ofsupporting Utd.
 
Rashford needs to be more direct. He seems to turn back and play a simple pass too often. He should be driving at the defender and beating them. He should be watching Mane and Salah or even Greenwood.
 
TwoSheds said:
Why is this thread being used whenever Martial has an anonymous game? What's it got to do with Rashford?
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Because both of them are inconsistent. Even though Rashford is the better/more consistent of the two (cue Martial FC outrage) he’s obviously not the finished article. Which means it’s important he has a very consistent performer alongside him.

Basically, most top teams would be delighted to have either one of them as options up front but I can’t think of any top team that would thrive with the two of them as our best/most experienced attacking players.

EDIT: Was thinking maybe Abraham/Werner at Chelsea but they’re both a bit older than Rashford and only really got going since 27yo Ziyech was added to the mix.
 
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It's the inconsistent form that is the big problem. Rashford's ability to give the ball straight back to the opposition doesnt cease to amaze me. He was at his awful worst last night. He is 23 now and really needs to show consistent maturity. Nani on his worst days was nowhere near as bad as Rashford is on nights like last night.

As for Martial, I'm hoping that he is just going through a really bad run of form and will pull through it, but it needs to happen fast.
 
Falcow said:
It's the inconsistent form that is the big problem. Rashford's ability to give the ball straight back to the opposition doesnt cease to amaze me. He was at his awful worst last night. He is 23 now and really needs to show consistent maturity. Nani on his worst days was nowhere near as bad as Rashford is on nights like last night.

As for Martial, I'm hoping that he is just going through a really bad run of form and will pull through it, but it needs to happen fast.
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You need an eye test.
 
Volumiza said:
I’d rather neither learn to play on the right and we buy somebody who can actually play on the right. I’ve seen enough now to know we will struggle with these two in the same team. Some matches it works but it struggles more often. Possible the weakest attacking front line in all my years ofsupporting Utd.
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Yup, I really wanted a ready made right winger this summer, Sancho or not. Not two more 'hot prospects' who may or may not ever make it here. Alas... Thanks Ed.

I believe one of the issues in attack is that Rashford and Martial occupy and attack pretty much the same spaces. Not only that, they are also both inconsistent and have absolute zero sense of goal poaching. It's either they beat one or two men and striker a curler into the corner or they don't shoot at all. It's just so black and white. You almost never see either of them get into a position where they can lunge themselves and toe poke a soft goal in.
 
spiriticon said:
Yup, I really wanted a ready made right winger this summer, Sancho or not. Not two more 'hot prospects' who may or may not ever make it here. Alas... Thanks Ed.

I believe one of the issues in attack is that Rashford and Martial occupy and attack pretty much the same spaces. Not only that, they are also both inconsistent and have absolute zero sense of goal poaching. It's either they beat one or two men and striker a curler into the corner or they don't shoot at all. It's just so black and white. You almost never see either of them get into a position where they can lunge themselves and toe poke a soft goal in.
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Exactly. They’re too alike. Every now and then they seem to complement each other but more often than not I find myself wishing we had a couple of killer forwards.

Personally I’d have Cavani starting from this point on.
 
Too inconsistent to be a title winning pair. I think the main reason Mourinho is fairing better at Spurs is due to Kane and Son being a level above both in quality and consistency. Would Everton fans swap Calvert-Lewis and Richarlison for Martial and Rashford? We talk about challenging Liverpool and City not Tottenham and Everton
 
I said a few months ago we pay them both world class wages, is it too much to ask for some consistent top level performances?
 
Good thing is that they're are getting chances. Both scored 17 for us last season in the league, which hasn't happened in a while.

I think once they can get their form going, we should hopefully see a flurry of goals.
 
dcrompton said:
Too inconsistent to be a title winning pair. I think the main reason Mourinho is fairing better at Spurs is due to Kane and Son being a level above both in quality and consistency. Would Everton fans swap Calvert-Lewis and Richarlison for Martial and Rashford? We talk about challenging Liverpool and City not Tottenham and Everton
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If we had Kane and Son in front of our defence and midfield we’d be top of the league I’m certain. The rest of our team isn’t a million miles off any other team in the league, it is our attacking players that are our biggest problem in my opinion. Some people might say I’m wrong but I trust what my eyes are telling me week in week out.
 
They’re both very similar, they’re both wildly inconsistent, and neither of them are proper strikers. We won’t challenge with both of them starting every match.

I’m hoping Cavani can do enough to nail himself a starting spot, but I’m worried Ole will have a bit too much loyalty to Rashford/Martial to do that.
 
The problem is that both Rashford and Martial are clearly best (most attackers are) in counter-attacking situations and together with the rest of the team are clueless when playing against a team allowing few counter-attacking opportunities.

It is nothing wrong with their abilities, especially when compared to the abilities in the rest of the team. If they played in a team able to retain possession, space the pitch and moved the ball efficiently they would be able to work under better conditions. Our current attacking setup is dependent on getting the ball to Bruno and hoping that he and Martial or Rashford can create something, or getting a penalty.
 
Martial's problem has always been his lack of movement. I remember when we first bought him, there was an analysis on him and they highlighted the fact that he doesn't make any meaningful runs off the ball when he was deployed as a left forward. He still hasnt improved that aspect of his game and lets be honest, 6 years in, he's never going to improve on that!

Rashford, I just don't know. Right now he still doesnt look 100% fit and seems to be playing within himself. Either way, we wont be winning much with these two leading the line that's for sure. I know Haaland and Sancho were unattainable but I wish we went for Jimenez and Ziyech. Those two would've improved us immeasurably!
 
Been saying this for a while (and taking some abuse for it). they are never going to score enough goals to make us a threat for the title and neither are natural in front of goal. Both missed chances yesterday that RvP, RvN or Rooney would have gobble up, but what's just as annoying is they still have no idea of what run to make off the ball; and usual make none. Compare that top the space Cavani found after coming on (if we had more than one creative midfielder, we'd have scored more)
 
MattofManchester said:
The problem is that they have barely improved at all since they first showed up on the scene.
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Nail on the head. No measurable proof they have improved to the level they should now be hitting if they are to become WC or very close to it.
 
TwoSheds said:
Why is this thread being used whenever Martial has an anonymous game? What's it got to do with Rashford?
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I like idea of a 2 birds with one stone thread....if both are poor like they were yesterday, stating it in one thread saves time, energy and possibly bandwith. Less likely attract the ire of their respective fanbases also.

Regarding the thrust of the OP, it's not sustainable mid to long-term and I can see Ole reattempting to upgrade the no 9 position in the summer leaving Martial as bench option for both LW and Striker positions.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Because both of them are inconsistent. Even though Rashford is the better/more consistent of the two (cue Martial FC outrage) he’s obviously not the finished article. Which means it’s important he has a very consistent performer alongside him.

Basically, most top teams would be delighted to have either one of them as options up front but I can’t think of any top team that would thrive with the two of them as our best/most experienced attacking players.

EDIT: Was thinking maybe Abraham/Werner at Chelsea but they’re both a bit older than Rashford and only really got going since 27yo Ziyech was added to the mix.
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I'll never ever understand why we weren't in for Ziyech. Mind boggling. Cheap and high high quality option for a position we need to strengthen for a decade now.
 
dcrompton said:
Too inconsistent to be a title winning pair. I think the main reason Mourinho is fairing better at Spurs is due to Kane and Son being a level above both in quality and consistency. Would Everton fans swap Calvert-Lewis and Richarlison for Martial and Rashford? We talk about challenging Liverpool and City not Tottenham and Everton
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Kane and Son work well together, Kane normally comes short for the ball, and if the defender goes with him, then that leaves space in behind for Son to run into, as seen from Son's goal yesterday. If the defender doesn't follow, then Kane can turn with the ball, if a midfielder picks up Kane then Spurs will have one of their three midfielders free to take the ball off Kane. We play with Rashford wide on the left, and Martial central, with Bruno making runs forward. That would be ok, but because we have zero threat from the right, teams tend to double up or stiffen their own right side, so Rashford and Martial have no space to work in. I thought Martial did well, but Rashford didn't look fit. When opponents play 5 at the back, and three holding midfielders, it's difficult to break down. We created four or five excellent opportunities, but neither of our main strikers are clinical enough to finish those chances, and West Brom protected their goal extremely well, and Johnstone made four top class saves.
We desperately need a threat from the right, and I hope that Greenwood will soon be available, and on form, so we can use him there.
 
They're both as inconsistent as each other and always have been, and they make up two thirds of the front line, where the other third is currently Mata. They're probably two of the most inconsistent players in the league. Our front line hasn't had a truly consistent performer since RVP.
 
Volumiza said:
I’d rather neither learn to play on the right and we buy somebody who can actually play on the right. I’ve seen enough now to know we will struggle with these two in the same team. Some matches it works but it struggles more often. Possible the weakest attacking front line in all my years ofsupporting Utd.
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Agreed.

Tbh I'm tired with the all talks about Rashford and Martial. We're used to world class wingers and strikers. They're not. But do you guys ever ask yourself if we get rid of them who and for how much we would buy to replace them? We're no longer the United that can cherry pick the best from the league. In those days Kane and Son would wear a red already. But now?

They're the least problem in our squad ffs. The biggest problem is we have no fecking RW. Even Mike Tyson can't win with a hand tied behind his back. We should be glad that we're able to win matches. We should be fecking happy that we have Bruno. Without him we'd create feck all. Buy a proper RW for once ffs.
 
Strelok said:
Agreed.

Tbh I'm tired with the all talks about Rashford and Martial. We're used to world class wingers and strikers. They're not. But do you guys ever ask yourself if we get rid of them who and for how much we would buy to replace them? We're no longer the United that can cherry pick the best from the league. In those days Kane and Son would wear a red already. But now?

They're the least problem in our squad ffs. The biggest problem is we have no fecking RW. Even Mike Tyson can't win with a hand tied behind his back. We should be glad that we're able to win matches. We should be fecking happy that we have Bruno. Without him we'd create feck all. Buy a proper RW for once ffs.
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RW and CF. Let Martial and Rashford rotate the LW.
 
Strelok said:
In your opinion who is the better CF than Martial that we would buy and for how much?
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Money no option? Haaland.

Realistic? Jiminez.

Like I said in another post, I may be old fashioned but I just prefer a proper CF with a pair of pacy attackers either side and I’m very happy we have Cavani as backup.
 
Volumiza said:
Money no option? Haaland.

Realistic? Jiminez.

Like I said in another post, I may be old fashioned but I just prefer a proper CF with a pair of pacy attackers either side and I’m very happy we have Cavani as backup.
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Haaland won't come to us mate. He has a release clause of €75m, kick in by 2022. Clause or not, all the top clubs would fight to death to sign him. And that guy is reportedly obssesed with success. We won't stand a chance, clause or not.

Jimenez is 29 yo, with a +£70m price tag, contracted till 2024. Do you think Ed would pay that money for a 29 yo striker?
 
Strelok said:
Haaland won't come to us mate. He has a release clause of €75m, kick in by 2022. Clause or not, all the top clubs would fight to death to sign him. And that guy is reportedly obssesed with success. We won't stand a chance, clause or not.

Jimenez is 29 yo, with a +£70m price tag, contracted till 2024. Do you think Ed would pay that money for a 29 yo striker?
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Hey, I was just saying who I’d like.

I must admit I’m finding it hard to see Lukaku all nice and trim and playing on top of his game.
 
Volumiza said:
Hey, I was just saying who I’d like.

I must admit I’m finding it hard to see Lukaku all nice and trim and playing on top of his game.
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I'm sorry, I was a bit angry.

I'm just too tired with all the mystic or unrealistic strikers or wingers the caf has been talking about to replace Rashford and Martial. Like they grow on a tree and we'd only have to pick them.
 
Strelok said:
I'm sorry, I was a bit angry.

I'm just too tired with all the mystic or unrealistic strikers or wingers the caf has been talking about to replace Rashford and Martial. Like they grow on a tree and we'd only have to pick them.
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No need to apologise, I hadn’t taken your post as angry.

I just don’t think these two, playing together, provide answers to the amount of questions a team with title aspirations get asked over the course of a season.

Both good players, both very talented and young and I’d love to see them take their game to the next level. I just don’t see it happening.
 
Volumiza said:
No need to apologise, I hadn’t taken your post as angry.

I just don’t think these two, playing together, provide answers to the amount of questions a team with title aspirations get asked over the course of a season.

Both good players, both very talented and young and I’d love to see them take their game to the next level. I just don’t see it happening.
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There was a period in the last season that both had a great understanding between and worked really well together.

Both are not world class, and probably would never be. But truth is we're no longer that old United. Do I love to have some upgrades on Rashford and Martial? Absolutely. I just don't see it happening.
 
Strelok said:
There was a period in the last season that both had a great understanding between and worked really well together.

Both are not world class, and probably would never be. But truth is we're no longer that old United. Do I love to have some upgrades on Rashford and Martial? Absolutely. I just don't see it happening.
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I think Cavani is an upgrade for the CF position straight away. May not be able to play every game but a good portion.

I also think Greenwood is about ready, when he sorts whatever stuff he’s going through right now.

Rashford - Cavani - Greenwood = our best lineup.
 
I think it’s time to stop pandering to some of these attackers - Ole needs to understand that a managers job is to identify how best to use a player and not have the players dictate where they want to play.

What I mean by that is, it’s clear to me Martial is the best AMLF at the club, therefore that’s where he should play. Whether he sees himself as a CF is irrelevant

Cavani is the most natural CF and for me, that means Rashford competing with Greenwood for AMRF
 
Volumiza said:
I think Cavani is an upgrade for the CF position straight away. May not be able to play every game but a good portion.

I also think Greenwood is about ready, when he sorts whatever stuff he’s going through right now.

Rashford - Cavani - Greenwood = our best lineup.
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Tbh I don't know about Cavani. He seems to lose much of his strength, acceleration and reach. And he used to be a type that was heavily reliant on those. As most of the strikers. The only thing he's good at now is his movements. He had a few chances last match. If he was a bit quicker and had a better reach, just half a feet it'd be very different I think. Imo we'd see him starting soon and would have a better idea of him.

Greenwood on the other hand is not ready yet imo. His game is still very simple and physically he's not ready yet. This season the defenders had figured out how to deal with him. They only have to block his shooting line when he cut inside. Or go in hard, really hard against him whenever he's near the ball. I won't comment about his private life or training as I have no idea regarding that. But that's what I saw from his playing time. Plus, he's not a RW. He's a not ready yet #9 playing on the right wing. Just buy a proper RW ffs.
 
Strelok said:
Tbh I don't know about Cavani. He seems to lose much of his strength, acceleration and reach. And he used to be a type that was heavily reliant on those. As most of the strikers. The only thing he's good at now is his movements. He had a few chances last match. If he was a bit quicker and had a better reach, just half a feet it'd be very different I think. Imo we'd see him starting soon and would have a better idea of him.

Greenwood on the other hand is not ready yet imo. His game is still very simple and physically he's not ready yet. This season the defenders had figured out how to deal with him. They only have to block his shooting line when he cut inside. Or go in hard, really hard against him whenever he's near the ball. I won't comment about his private life or training as I have no idea regarding that. But that's what I saw from his playing time.
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Whether Cavani is the player he was 4 years ago is one thing but he is still a top player in and around the box. Neither Martial or Rashford have that instinct, it simply isn’t their game.

Greenwood still has loads to learn but there is no one currently in our squad I’d put on the right over him even with his current deficiencies.

I’d let Martial and Rashford compete for that left spot and cover the other spots when necessary.
 
Volumiza said:
Whether Cavani is the player he was 4 years ago is one thing but he is still a top player in and around the box. Neither Martial or Rashford have that instinct, it simply isn’t their game.

Greenwood still has loads to learn but there is no one currently in our squad I’d put on the right over him even with his current deficiencies.

I’d let Martial and Rashford compete for that left spot and cover the other spots when necessary.
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It's not instinct. Imo that's a myth. It's experience and anticipation, sometime luck. We'll see about Cavani but tbh I don't have much hope for him. Because if strikers would only need 'instinct' to score most of them wouldn't have to retire or quit the top clubs once they reach 33-34 yo. They'd need legs as well.

For the RW. I really hope we would stop putting our AM, strikers, LW there and wish they'd perform. Just buy or loan a proper RW ffs.
 
They both have a tendency to drop the head when things are not going too well in the game.

I dont think they try hard enough either. That extra 10 percent makes all the difference.
 
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