Rashford and Martial are a problem

Strelok said:
It's not instinct. Imo that's a myth.
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I don’t agree with that. Look at all of the different types of strikers over the years, not just at United. All have different instincts, it’s what makes them the players they are. Neither Rashford or Martial are traditional CF’s. Some may say we don’t need one but I disagree.

Both Rashford and Martial are suited to cutting in from the left and neither really hover around the box, waiting to create some space and prod home from close range. I’m not saying they never do it, just that instinctively they don’t arrive in those positions like Cavani will. Instincts are a large part of top level footballers. Rooney, in his prime was pure instinct.
 
cptkeane1993 said:
I love them both but they’re our 2 main goalscorers and are both terribly inconsistent. And folks wonder why Man Utd puts out inconsistent performances.

Liverpool - Salah and Mane - terribly consistent, with Jota backing up
Man City - Aguero and Sterling - terribly consistent, with Jesus backing up
This is a key reason why they’ve won most of the available titles in the past three years.

Among the pretenders, we have:
Spurs - Kane and Son, with Bale waiting in the wings
Chelsea - Werner and Abraham, with Pulisic, Giroud backing up
These guys’ consistency this season reflects in their teams’ league positions, and potential for titles.

Rashford and Martial are both young and haven’t achieved consistency yet. (You could say the same for Chelsea but their squad strength means they have to perform to stay in the team.) If we want to win titles, we can carry only one of them. The other needs to be the more mature one, showing consistency and taking responsibility. Perhaps that’s Cavani but it’s early days.

Sigh, if we had Sancho or Grealish in the summer, they’d have pushed Rashford towards greater consistency and he in turn would’ve pushed Martial. Ole knew this and would’ve made it clear to the board but they haven’t backed him yet. They need to, soon.
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agree with everything you said. But I wouldn’t refer to the fact that they are young. Each one of them has over 200 games for the club. They should mature and should be entering their peak years now
 
Volumiza said:
I don’t agree with that. Look at all of the different types of strikers over the years, not just at United. All have different instincts, it’s what makes them the players they are. Neither Rashford or Martial are traditional CF’s. Some may say we don’t need one but I disagree.

Both Rashford and Martial are suited to cutting in from the left and neither really hover around the box, waiting to create some space and prod home from close range. I’m not saying they never do it, just that instinctively they don’t arrive in those positions like Cavani will. Instincts are a large part of top level footballers. Rooney, in his prime was pure instinct.
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Did you watch Rashford when he burst into the scene?
 
Volumiza said:
Been watching him since the days on MUTV youth games. What’s your point?

What year are you saying he burst onto the scene?
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His breaking year at the senior level.

Anyway, did you remember the goals he scored in his first match and the Arsenal match?

In his first year at the senior level he scored many of those 'instinct' goals. Right place, right time. If it's instinct why he lost it now?
 
Strelok said:
His breaking year at the senior level.

Anyway, did you remember the goals he scored in his first match and the Arsenal match?

In his first year at the senior level he scored many of those 'instinct' goals. Right place, right time. If it's instinct why he lost it now?
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So you’re talking about his breakout into the first team? That’s what? 4 - 5 years ago?

I think his instincts haven’t changed a whole lot in that time and that’s the problem. He is young no doubt and it would be foolish to think he can’t improve more but largely he’s not improved a crazy amount in that time.

And besides, I’m not so concerned about Rashford, I think he’s more productive than Martial, my problem is I don’t think we can form a title winning side with those two forming most of our attack, they are too similar and the amount of games where they both perform really well at the same time are not as regular as you’d wish.
 
Volumiza said:
So you’re talking about his breakout into the first team? That’s what? 4 - 5 years ago?

I think his instincts haven’t changed a whole lot in that time and that’s the problem. He is young no doubt and it would be foolish to think he can’t improve more but largely he’s not improved a crazy amount in that time.

And besides, I’m not so concerned about Rashford, I think he’s more productive than Martial, my problem is I don’t think we can form a title winning side with those two forming most of our attack, they are too similar and the amount of games where they both perform really well at the same time are not as regular as you’d wish.
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Yes, the year he broke into the senior team under LVG. Most of his goals he scored back then were the 'instinct' goals you've been talking about. Just right place, right time. Like he saw the goals coming and decided to stay or move there. If it's instinct I don't think he'd lose it now. Imo he lost it because for the next seasons he was moved to the left, where he acquired new experience as a winger. And eventually lost his experience as a striker.

Players sometime lose their traits of the current position, sometime they don't when they're retrained and played in a new position for a while. So it's a matter of experience than instinct I think.
 
Rashford's main problem in that he's obviously still carrying an injury.

Here's a drinking-game for the next time you see Rashford play: take a shot every time he takes a small bump, goes to ground, lies on his back, and then spends 30 seconds slowly getting back to his feet.

He's nowhere near 100%. Probably playing on injections.
 
Dante said:
Rashford's main problem in that he's obviously still carrying an injury.

Here's a drinking-game for the next time you see Rashford play: take a shot every time he takes a small bump, goes to ground, lies on his back, and then spends 30 seconds slowly getting back to his feet.

He's nowhere near 100%. Probably playing on injections.
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Yep I've noticed this as well.
 
Is there an argument that Rashford has been run into the ground in the past couple of seasons? He played on with that injury last season until it got really bad and I hope it doesn't happen again. I agree he doesn't look fit at times.
 
Dante said:
Rashford's main problem in that he's obviously still carrying an injury.

Here's a drinking-game for the next time you see Rashford play: take a shot every time he takes a small bump, goes to ground, lies on his back, and then spends 30 seconds slowly getting back to his feet.

He's nowhere near 100%. Probably playing on injections.
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No one understands it or gives a shit.

Van Persie literally said it would possibly change his career path and then there people still calling him a problem like we should be a club trying to line our club with Mata on the right and Lingard on the left or something.
 
Our forwards are too reactionary. They either want the ball to feet, or make a run after they see the ball being played. Jota's goal for Liverpool today is exactly what our forwards need to do (as well as our FB's). Early runs with the ball played into space for the attacker to run onto. We NEVER do that. If our opponent is lined up at the edge of their 18 or even further up the pitch, we should be looking to exploit that area between the defender and the keeper. But our guys never look for that. They just check in and our FB's just pass the ball around and retain possession. I'm hoping with Telles on board now we will see more quality crosses. But with that, I'd also like to see a slight change to the front 3. I'd like to see this:

Martial---------------Cavani-----------------Rashford

Rashford can tend to be to one dimensional on the left. He's always looking to cut in to get a shot off. I'd like to see him on the right where he can take his man wide (and use his pace) and then whip in a cross. On the left, Martial is less predictable and a great dribbler. He can go either way and can come in for the shot, or go wide and cross with his left. And Cavani is a natural #9 who still has a couple years left in him. But most of all, we just need to start scoring more. Scoring builds confidence, and these guys are short on it right now...
 
They won't be such a problem if they don't have a rabid fanbase who defend all their shite performance like a kpop fans defend their scandalous idol. It would be easier for coach to bench them if they were unpopular within the fanbase.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Our forwards are too reactionary. They either want the ball to feet, or make a run after they see the ball being played. Jota's goal for Liverpool today is exactly what our forwards need to do (as well as our FB's). Early runs with the ball played into space for the attacker to run onto. We NEVER do that. If our opponent is lined up at the edge of their 18 or even further up the pitch, we should be looking to exploit that area between the defender and the keeper. But our guys never look for that. They just check in and our FB's just pass the ball around and retain possession. I'm hoping with Telles on board now we will see more quality crosses. But with that, I'd also like to see a slight change to the front 3. I'd like to see this:

Martial---------------Cavani-----------------Rashford

Rashford can tend to be to one dimensional on the left. He's always looking to cut in to get a shot off. I'd like to see him on the right where he can take his man wide (and use his pace) and then whip in a cross. On the left, Martial is less predictable and a great dribbler. He can go either way and can come in for the shot, or go wide and cross with his left. And Cavani is a natural #9 who still has a couple years left in him. But most of all, we just need to start scoring more. Scoring builds confidence, and these guys are short on it right now...
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I think Daniel James is better as a RW than Rashford is to be honest.
 
Bebestation said:
I think Daniel James is better as a RW than Rashford is to be honest.
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James is definitely better on the right than he is on the left (despite many thinking the opposite), but I haven't seen enough of Rashford on the right to decide on who is better there. Overall Rashford is a better footballer though, so I would like to see him tried there. James will have his place in the team, but for me it's from the bench when we need to kill off a team that is open to the counter attack...
 
Rashford at least is trying and is committed. But I can’t say the same about Martial. But Martial has a lot of fan boys here, he will have one good game and 2 average games out of 10 and the fan boys will go overboard with that performance. In fairness, a player should be doing something for the team even on his bad day. But Martial on his bad day (which happens quite often) means we are playing with 10 players. It’s not just about the shiny skills and fancy touches, it’s about the end product and that’s what counts.

In an ideal situation, a club of United’s status should never be relying heavily on these two players.
 
Liverpool didn't even need another goal scorer but went right in for Jota and - without haggling over a few pounds - signed him. We didn't even seem to think he existed or just decided we didn't need someone who actual scores goals
 
Frank Grimes said:
Both of them are just not good enough for a team looking to compete for major trophies.
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For a left sided player his record is absolutely fine for me

22 goals last season and already 7 this season, we have loads of problems at United but Rashford isn’t one of them.
 
Hisha said:
Rashford at least is trying and is committed. But I can’t say the same about Martial. But Martial has a lot of fan boys here, he will have one good game and 2 average games out of 10 and the fan boys will go overboard with that performance. In fairness, a player should be doing something for the team even on his bad day. But Martial on his bad day (which happens quite often) means we are playing with 10 players. It’s not just about the shiny skills and fancy touches, it’s about the end product and that’s what counts.

In an ideal situation, a club of United’s status should never be relying heavily on these two players.
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I might say the opposite, to be honest. Martial has very good hold up skills and even when his movement and finishing are lacking he does help us control the ball until other players join the attack.

Rashford, on the other hand, is very wasteful and frustrating when out of form and having a bad day. His runs do not work, his tricks are unsuccessful and him "trying" means other players burst making runs to give him options only for him to lose the ball and we get countered.

But I like them both and expect that kind of performance fluctuations from young players. I'm just trying to be realistic.
 
Solskjaer went after Haaland, so it's not unfair to assume he felt he needed a "proper" striker. Remains to be seen if Cavani can hack it. Will he go after someone else in Jan?
 
Martial isn’t a number 9. He just isn’t deadly or clinical enough, doesn’t have the killer instinct needed. He needs to study tapes of lewa and haaland, old clips of shearer .. even learn a few things from Cavani because that’s what we need our number 9 to be. Goals pure goals.
 
As wide players, they’re fine. But martial especially wants it constantly to feet and will rarely make a run even though he has the pace to.

Rashford’s general play is inconsistent, you never really know if the ball will stick to him when he dribbles.

A proper number 9 like a prime Cavani would be perfect for them two.

I don’t think they are the two that will lead us to trophies because they’re far too inconsistent. You can tell how Martial will be after 5 minutes of the game.
 
Our season will be down whether these two can perform because they are our goal scorers in starting XI. Although we have Greenwood & Cavani but they haven’t really used much due to fitness and other unknown issue.
 
Martial was better out wide, but I can't say his performance was of the sort of level that made me think things are about to get good for him again.
 
Personally think they have been cheeks for a while but don't get enough credit for the bazillion penalties they've been winning us almost every week. Defenders struggle against their close control so there's some redemption. They still need to actually score goals though
 
Greck said:
Personally think they have been cheeks for a while but don't get enough credit for the bazillion penalties they've been winning us almost every week. Defenders struggle against their close control so there's some redemption. They still need to actually score goals though
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Rashford is scoring goals. 1 Goal and another one ruled out tonight. 8 for the season so far which is good.

Martial has just 2 and still no goals in the league. His form is more of a concern to me. However I'm sure he will go on a run soon. He always does. It's very rare that both him and Rashford are on form at same time. They seem to take turns.
 
Two players who were forming an excellent partnership and combining well have now turned to shit more often than not. Why is our club filled with false dawns or spells of strong optimism and let downs
 
Rashfords all around game is good but lacks a footballing brain. Its no coincidence when he plays simple and direct he gets rave reviews. When he tries to do too much, he loses possession or passes into a defender.

Yesterday was an example of this. overall was okay but when you are three nil up, you need to keep playing direct and make the right passes to kill off the game. He should have made a simple pass to bruno on his left for the counter right before the break or...just keep running and go for goal himself. Unfortunately he has like 500 things on his mind all the time and takes way too long to make a decision and its usually the wrong decision most of the time.
 
for me both there best positions is coming in from the left, although thought Rashford done well on the right last night, couple decent crosses as well which he never seems to do from the left, so might be something for us to build with going forward
 
Throw Greenwood in there as well. Without a proper striker leading the line we have a problem.
 
They are like Jones and Smalling upfront, only around their 30’s, playing them for almost 10 yrs, United discovered that they were not good enough
 
::sonny:: said:
They are like Jones and Smalling upfront, only around their 30’s, playing them for almost 10 yrs, United discovered that they were not good enough
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I disagree.
Both are clearly talented. But they haven't been properly coached or are not playing in a system that makes them succeed or they stopped caring.

Rashford needs to be coached on his decision making and martial needs to be motivated, then they could for a yorke cole duo. But sadly this didnt happen and isnt happening.
 
Antony Martial with seven EPL appearances this season has zero goals and zero assists for a CF. That's brutal.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
So great strikers last season, now they're crap!

Great thread!
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They had moments last season where they went through patches of great form. The question now is whether they can pick off from last season and step up to be regular, consistent and reliable goal scorers...so far that isn't happening with Martial.
 
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