Maradona
Pele
Messi
Pele
Messi
Rank Maradona, Messi, Pele and C.Ronaldo
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Maradona
Messi
Pele
Ronaldo
Messi
Pele
Ronaldo
There’s no doubt some serious football fans in here but I’d love to know how many people have offered a ranking without watching Pele or Maradona play 90 minutes of football
I'm not trying to be a dick, not even close, and I know that you are a Messi fan (like Joe Miller and others), but come on, stop it with the WC/NT thing.
Even as fans, your are doing it wrong, I always felt that way with people fan of Messi talking about stats in their wars against Cris fans.
If Messi didn't win the WC, if he for some reason never even played a game in the WC, he could still be the favorite for anyone in an all time spectrum.
A very differente thing would be mocking a journo, an influencer that used that sort of arguments, but to each to its own, if someone thinks Cris is the best, sthg that I personally do not share even slightly, so be it, it's his taste, it's not like he is saying Piojo Lopez either.
Talking about Cris International tally or such, seems odd, looks bad and three years ago even with Messi (for me) overall having a better internationally carreer in terms of many great perfomances with no cigar at the end, still was odd. Sometimes shyte happens, sometimes in some scenarios some thing never fully happens, sometiems players do not even play certain competitions, etc...in fact normally it's not just in the particular player shoulders, mostly with this off the charts players that deliver day in day out in their club carreers.
1. C. Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Maradona
4. Ronaldinho
2. Messi
3. Maradona
4. Ronaldinho
We can still have some favorite and indeed it's better to acually watch them. In fact most fans watch just the ones in his team and in a rare ocassion the big CL, WC, Euro Copa match.
I'm an old fart, the only one I didn't watch live is Pele, but is a player that you still can watch tons of footage and like I always said, we have to respect every huge player in their respective period. I trully think that there is not such written in stone only GOAT, yet still we can have our very own favorites.
Regarding vintage players, I recently had some sort of feeling that Di Stefano has been for varipous reasons quite unfairly "forgotten", of coruse Madrid does its job and keep him more or less alive, but digging in his carreer, he maybe should be more often being named.
Puskas too.
I can remember watching a video compiles all the clips where the greatest managers and greatest players of all time state who they believe to be the greatest. I can't remember who came out on top but Di Stefano got far more votes than a modern football fan would think. He was definitely in the the top 3, which were Messi, Pele and Di Stefano but i can't remember the order.
The problem with what you are saying is that with these arguments, the debater is trying to claim that a particular player is better than literally every single other person who has ever played the game professionally. That is a LOT of people. So when you get to that level of argument, everything becomes important, all holes in the resume must be discussed.
How can you say that a person who has never scored or created a goal in the knockout rounds of the biggest competition in football is the greatest player of all time? When there other players who have done basically what CR has done and have also managed to do well in that key competition? That's the point.
You mention Messi, and obviously his case has been helped greatly by his late career success at international level. But you cannot honestly believe that if Messi had ended his career without ever winning a World Cup or ever scoring a goal in the knockout rounds of the World Cup, that people would not continue to bring this up in arguing that he had not surpassed Pele and Maradona. Obviously some would still argue that he had anyway, but it would be a nagging doubt in the minds of even his most ardent advocates. Luckily for him, he put that argument to bed. Ronaldo has not, not even close.
I had them in two tiers, Tier 1 being Messi and Ronaldo and Tier 2 being Maradona and Pele. Understand arguments on both sides for CR7 vs Messi.
I'd have Ronaldo bottom of the 4 but that's no disgrace
Messi
Maradona
Pele
Ronaldo
I think the other 3 are far more naturally talented footballers than Ronaldo and that's not to say he wasnt naturally talented he just wasn't as much as the others
Messi
Maradona
Pele
Ronaldo
I think the other 3 are far more naturally talented footballers than Ronaldo and that's not to say he wasnt naturally talented he just wasn't as much as the others
People can bring anything to the table, but Messi never needed that, like Di Stefano never need to play a single game in a WC or Cryuff to win it. Indeed for many people is need it, but in a strict football sense, it's silly as fvck.
What I mean it's that timing in life is everything and sometimes with certain off the charts players (geniuses, phenoms) things will happen and sometimes not.
In this particulart case, in many ways it just sends the wrong vibes, gloating about sthg that could have go very wrong given how for instance the final went, it's just silly. Yes he has those Cups and perfomances to boot, great, more in such fashion, but as a whole, he never need them for if someone to have him as his alltime favorite. It just starts some sort of stats, titles discussion that becomes silly. There are tones of arguments to be made in chossing Messi above CR without even touching the WC thing.
At the end of the day, Messi could have slot that one agaisnt Germany in Brazil and that combo would have been the icing of the icing of the cake, yet overall he played better in 2022. Maradona could have made the squad in 1978 easily, having one WC more. Pele could have not be injured in 66, the CBF could have backed up Saldanha and who knows what would have happened with Brazil in the 70 Cup or Zagallo keep being stubborn and not align Tostao with Pele, so many things are just timing or outside the players hands.
Even when extreme CR fans focus too much on stats just do not see that if someone like Erling still scores for fun for another 12 years and trashes every record and beyond, for me he won't be a playwer of the calibre of Cristiano, nor that Cris is the first or only player that scored such a lot on daily basis (some players have ratios than Messi or Cris and for long periods of time too).
The thing it's that when the chats, debates, focus too much on those digs, puns, it juts makes everything go south pretty quickly
In the old days he was the man, but the WC has lots of extras when building a status. Also he survives because Madrid has the extra condiment too, more in his case that was the one that actually in many ways created such mystique. Yet me included somehow never gave him enough credit when comes to his individual brilliance and the way his carreer developed. In fact all of his fame is pretty much based on the more or less "mature and old fart" Alfredo.
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I seem to recall ‘most’ people ranking Pele first and Maradona second my whole life. It’s only in the last 10 years or so, perhaps since all the YouTube clips of which there are many more of Maradona, that Maradona seems to be rated as highly as Pele. Anyone else notice that?
Also, anyone still claiming Ronaldo is as good as Messi shouldn’t have a driving licence.
Also, anyone still claiming Ronaldo is as good as Messi shouldn’t have a driving licence.
The thing is, he just doesnt have enough weapons to truly stand alongside maradona messi and pele.
His fans point really only to his goalscoring prowess, longevity, being crutch and can score no matter who he players with, to make the argument that he should stand beside the big 3.
However, other than longevity, his record in the ec/wc simply shows that he is not the primealpha for goalscoring/crutch/no matter his teammates, in the biggest moments (ec/wc). Live by the sword, die by the sword.
There’s a lot of footage of Maradona around, less so Pele. Maradona the more you see of him, is probably the ‘best’ if you just want pure ability.
I can see why people pick Ronaldo or Messi dependent on what they prefer/value more.
The truth is in 10 years or so there’ll be people arguing about how they are overrated because they played in teams designed to create space and chances for them and they didn’t do much defensively and they spent their primes in a league were there have generally been 2 dominant teams.
Please burn this word and never use it again
Well many here over the weekend had him at number 1
Thankfully its a small minority
Suggest another word then? Alphaprime, apex predator? God King?
Bingo
Giving me the WH40k vibes now, but maybe in his head he is indeed the god emperor
I'm not talking about that, I have Messi clearly above him, I've just questioned the focus on WC numbers (and even more than even that, numbers itself).
Anyone can have Messi as favorite and discuss about it without restorting to puns or digs about CR's lack of WC or numbers in that competition.
This is very long and you've made a lot of points but bringing up DiStefano doesn't work because he never played at a World Cup due to injury and unfortunate circumstances (changing nations etc.). Had he played at 4 or 5 and done basically nothing (like CR), it would harm his case.
All the stuff you said about 'what if this or that happened' is all well and good, but that's the harsh realities of sport. The fact of the matter is, Messi's own countrymen questioned him before he won with Argentina. There's millions of Argentines of a certain age who would never have entertained a debate about Messi v Diego. Now they may still stick with Diego, but they have to have the discussion. That's the difference. For them, it doesn't matter what he did with Barcelona.
This is going to another place than the my original post tried to point out. Anyone can have Messi as favorite and discuss about it without restorting to puns or digs about CR's lack of WC or numbers in that competition. Focusing on that, metioning it first, with so much more and more important stuff to bring to the table will always feel wrong for me and a bit silly. And BTW it feels more wrong in relation to Messi than even in relation to Cris.
They did. Personal opinion? Messi is ahead of everyone. If you put all the off-the-pitch stuff of all of them aside, Messi for me
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Messi
Maradonna
Pele
Ronaldo
I think the first two are the best. I’ve seen as much as is available of Pele and I think for his time he was unquestionably the best, but there is something more magical about the two tiny Argentines squirreling their way through players. It’s like art in motion the way they dribbles around pitches in their primes.
Maradonna
Pele
Ronaldo
I think the first two are the best. I’ve seen as much as is available of Pele and I think for his time he was unquestionably the best, but there is something more magical about the two tiny Argentines squirreling their way through players. It’s like art in motion the way they dribbles around pitches in their primes.
Ronaldo
Pele
Messi
Maradona
Honourable mention: George Best
Pele
Messi
Maradona
Honourable mention: George Best
Ronaldo has played 22 games though, other legends would have killed to have 22 opportunities to play in a World Cup match and to only score 8 goals when Eusebio only had 6 and he scored 9 goals. Cruyff only had 7 games and was player of the tournament. The other Ronaldo scored 15 goals from 19 games. Muller scored 14 from 13. Pele only played 14, but made a difference in almost all of them and scored 12 goals. Romario scored 5 from 8. The list goes on. Ronaldo has the most underwhelming record of them all.
I dunno how to explained it anymore...
making a dig, pun on CR in the manner it was done in the original post I've quoted, regarding this whole Cris vs Messi or whatever: feels wronger in relation to Messi and his stature and talent as a player, than otherwise
With all due respect I don’t want to be lumped in with the crazies. If someone has Diego at the top of their list that wouldn’t bother me a jot, he was pretty much the top of mine until Qatar 2022. I’m just not keen on CR7’s cult following or the man himself due to his conduct, that’s all. I’m never going to deny he was a brilliant player who did incredible things. And I love football, love top level football and love watching the best players in the game so it’s the sort of discussion I quite like. But I’m not going to go nuts if someone thinks Diego or Pepe are the greatest, I just don’t think it’s fair to use assists as a mark of a striker being a great playmaker, for the reasons already outlined by myself and a few other boys
I'm certain Sir Bobby Charlton used to wax lyrical about him.
With all due respect I don’t want to be lumped in with the crazies. If someone has Diego at the top of their list that wouldn’t bother me a jot, he was pretty much the top of mine until Qatar 2022. I’m just not keen on CR7’s cult following or the man himself due to his conduct, that’s all. I’m never going to deny he was a brilliant player who did incredible things. And I love football, love top level football and love watching the best players in the game so it’s the sort of discussion I quite like. But I’m not going to go nuts if someone thinks Diego or Pepe are the greatest, I just don’t think it’s fair to use assists as a mark of a striker being a great playmaker, for the reasons already outlined by myself and a few other boys
Sorry if it felt like I just put you in a bag, it's just that I've seen some of you naturally praising Messi, but also getting into some debates vs CR fans and lately there is too much focus like the original post I've quoted on the whole WC thing and the stats involve in those.
I sincerely think that even more being a Messi fan, that should not be the primarly focus regarding admiring the lad as a player and the favorite one ever.
Can someone please nug this newb? Messi behind Pele and Maradonna…
In World Cup
Pelé: 12 goals, 9 assist, 14 matches. (21 g+a, 1.5 per game). 3 titles
Maradona: 8 goals, 8 assist, 21 matches. (16 g+a, 0.76 per game) 1 title
Messi: 13 goals*, 8 assist, 26 matches. (21 g+a, 0.80 per game) 1 titles
Cr7: 8 goals**, 2 assist, 22 matches. (10 g+a, 0.45 per game) 0 title
*four pk goals
* three pk goals
Pelé and Mardona have no goals from the penalty spot in World Cups.
Pelé is the king. (more title, better g+a)
Maradona and Messi almost draw, but Maradona didn't score from the penalty spot.
Pelé: 12 goals, 9 assist, 14 matches. (21 g+a, 1.5 per game). 3 titles
Maradona: 8 goals, 8 assist, 21 matches. (16 g+a, 0.76 per game) 1 title
Messi: 13 goals*, 8 assist, 26 matches. (21 g+a, 0.80 per game) 1 titles
Cr7: 8 goals**, 2 assist, 22 matches. (10 g+a, 0.45 per game) 0 title
*four pk goals
* three pk goals
Pelé and Mardona have no goals from the penalty spot in World Cups.
Pelé is the king. (more title, better g+a)
Maradona and Messi almost draw, but Maradona didn't score from the penalty spot.
My list is
Pele
Messi
Maradona
Ronaldo
I'm not sure why you keep on bringing up Messi, I don't have him as number one, even though I obviously recognise that he has a very strong case (and he did a crazy amount for Barca).
Why is that funny? It's a breakdown of their goal contributions in the biggest matches of their careers when the whole world was watching. You can add context to the stats, but the facts are the facts.
Obi Mikel > Messi = Maradona > Ronaldo
Madonna > Prime Donna (Summer) > everyone else (especially that botox cock wanker, whatever his name is these days)
Go to my first post quoting your post...my english sucks, I know it, but for christ sake, how many times I must write this in diff fashion, but let's go again hahaha, sorry!...
Anyone using Primarly the WCs stuff, as first response (like the original post I've quoted from you) to anyone putting CRIS as their main man, their favorite, it's feels a bit silly.
It's kind of changing the narrative due to his late succees with the NT.
Why on hell going in first place to mention such achievements from Messi (or as an alternative the lack of them by Cris) when anyone that already had Messi as better than Cristiano since not long ago never needed them.
It even opens the door that if Cris was the one winning the WC22 automatically would have made him a better player?. And I'm not talking about traditional media, social media, that obviosuly like nowadays puts Messi above everyone because of his WC, would have done it with Cris.
It's silly, because the narrative against both till not long ago was the lack of International success and if suddenly becomes the focal point, even with Messi on the bragging and winning side, it's once again playing with the same cards the other camp always used to put Cris above the little fella: titles, stats, numbers in general.
That Messi was a freak in those too, doesn't take away that for many, me included, it never was about those numbers to like him better, nor winning WCs...in fact already with Cris and his Euro when Messi didn't had even a Copa, he still had in my opinion better perfomances at the International level but simple no cigar after loosing so many finals. I just don't get it why lately many normal and Messi fanboys restort time and again to Messi's International success when the dude already had enough weapons in his arsenal to be the favorite of anyone against anyone.
Finally, I original quoted and in some way used your post as a trigger, because it's quite a trend this pun on Cris lack of WCs and numbers in them and Messi's late succeess in those.
I get it for trolls, for puns, but not in a calm way to actually bring that stuff first in a debate or argument of Messi vs Cris, or even to complain about somebody choosing Cris above la Pulga...
I dunno if by now it's more clear my point, but like I've said it trully looks like using the same weapons that Cris fans used tons of times against Messi with the quantity of CLs, stats in general.
Messi for me (and many) was always and would remain always a player that speaks on another wavelenght and numbers (as huge as those might be) were always a by product regarding him.
I've seen people for years talking about stuff that I endorse of why Messi can be a better player than Cris, suddenly just talking first and foremost about his NT carreer. Come on...God forbid Cris wins the WC26 if that's the case
SIDE NOTE: at one point I derrailled a bit talking in general about how timing in general and specially in International KO Cups (and even Club ones) plays a huge part in various forms and that I trully believe that Alfredo, Johan, etc deserve to be talked among the best ever even without WCs, but that wasn't my primary or original let's say complain. I do not have Cris on that Echelon, but I won't use his "lack" (or better say, less complete) NT success as sthg. that can be use to not consider him as a "GOAT (I hate the term)" if I actually rated him on such level of talent. I do think he has a Goat carreer and that I don't see him as a genius, but a clear phenom (just silly tags to make some kind of difference).
Sorry mate. I quoted the wrong post. I deleted it.
Like hell I was 37. I was 35. Seriously, I envy you that experience. I was lucky because my dad took me to the games but I suppose he wasn't able to get time off work to take me. But I remember those trips down the East Lancs to Goodison to watch Brazil. The only game I saw at Old Trafford was Portugal and Bulgaria. As I recall. the place was less than half-full.