Rank Maradona, Messi, Pele and C.Ronaldo

I think you could argue all four in their peak, possibly not Ronaldo but looking objectively at their careers.

1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Pele
4. Maradona

I've always valued consistentcy and longevity as hugely important to long careers. For example Giggs is hugely underrated.

Messi is definitely the best. Best peak, best career, incredible consistency, had everything.

I'm actually close between the other 3. Maradona better peak, Pele internationally the best, Ronaldo, best with his club. I think the standard of the game improved in the 2010s compared to the 70s or 80s despite the aggressive defenders. I felt that Ronaldo was incredible against tough opponents for a longer period of time.

I might be biased from only watching highlights of Pele and Maradona.
 
Messi
Pele
Maradona
Ronaldo

The margins between the four are small. Messi, without a doubt, but the next three could be in any order.

But a possibly more interesting question is who was the most thrilling footballer to watch? The guy who did what he did and left you in utter disbelief more than anyone else? It would still be Messi, but after Messi clearly Maradona.
 
I'd say 60 or 70% haven't even seen Maradona or Pele play other than YouTube clips.

Between Ronaldo and Messi, I couldn't decide between the two.

Messi has natural talent, while Ronaldo has talent, he has that hunger and determination to do everything he can to be the best.

But if we were to judge on just talent alone, it would be Messi for sure.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
The problem is people are confusing 'best' with 'greatest'. Maradona didn't do enough in his career to be top 4 for 'greatest'.
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By no means he had the greatest carreer in football, I absolutely agree with that and I don't think anyone would even think in such way. Yet he still did enough to be among the greatest players ever.

At the same time his carreer wasn't as shaby as sometimes people tend to portrait it, while on the other hand it wasn't either a "singlehandle affair" or even fairytale.
It's the game of extremes what paints a wrong scenario, it's like calling him a cheat as the main reason to win the 86 Cup, while he was one of the players historically that teams more cheated agaisnt him time and again on every competition.

The truth it's between those extremes. Yet what it's certain it's that most of the time he faced many against all odds situations since the very beginning (BTW his carreer does not start in Europe).
When we look closer that combination of talent (and even charisma and style that also contribute to his aura) and the struggles he had to faced, his output was fecking brilliant.
 
lex talionis said:
Messi
Pele
Maradona
Ronaldo

The margins between the four are small. Messi, without a doubt, but the next three could be in any order.

But a possibly more interesting question is who was the most thrilling footballer to watch? The guy who did what he did and left you in utter disbelief more than anyone else? It would still be Messi, but after Messi clearly Maradona.
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I agree and for me, although not on this list, was Ronaldinho or even Best they left me in amazement more times then I can remember.
 
SungSam7 said:
I'd say 60 or 70% haven't even seen Maradona or Pele play other than YouTube clips.

Between Ronaldo and Messi, I couldn't decide between the two.

Messi has natural talent, while Ronaldo has talent, he has that hunger and determination to do everything he can to be the best.

But if we were to judge on just talent alone, it would be Messi for sure.
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Messi is just better. I can't imagine ever seeing a player close to him again.
 
Ole'sgunnarwin said:
I think you could argue all four in their peak, possibly not Ronaldo but looking objectively at their careers.

1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Pele
4. Maradona

I've always valued consistentcy and longevity as hugely important to long careers. For example Giggs is hugely underrated.

Messi is definitely the best. Best peak, best career, incredible consistency, had everything.

I'm actually close between the other 3. Maradona better peak, Pele internationally the best, Ronaldo, best with his club. I think the standard of the game improved in the 2010s compared to the 70s or 80s despite the aggressive defenders. I felt that Ronaldo was incredible against tough opponents for a longer period of time.

I might be biased from only watching highlights of Pele and Maradona.
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Every Period had its nuances, there is nothing written in stone, no period was easier, or clearly harder, every coin has two sides, every palyer had to deal with his time.
Yet of course in general terms atheltes become better athletes, but since its football, it shouldn't be seen as a 100 metres race.

The very special ones will still prevail in terms of individual talent on any era, YET what what we would never know, it's how any greatest player would have deal with a certain coach, a certain period of a team, his teammates...etc...these stuff it's most of times more important to the succees of any player at any period than anything else.

I do not share that CR it's the better equiped to deal with systems or defenders from any period in comparison with the other three mentioned here.
The other ones were better dealing with more roles and better in terms of pure ability to dribble and create, not that CR was shaby at that on an Elite level, but he was for me clearly under these other 3 mavericks. It's his power, pace, determination an intelligence to switch to more specified rol what made him thrive in his carreer.
Even in those matches between Barca and Madrid in Messi's and CR's prime you could easliy see a team mostly trying to anulate a player with team work and the other one dealing with a more traditional marking regarding roles with the other beast.
CR playing in deeper positions, dealing with cages, man marking, etc on any period would have less tools than the other three that also struggled in their carreers with such scenarios to come on top or even survive.
 
Remember the geese said:
Any list with Messi at the bottom is just wrong.
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I deducted points for him playing on several of the most stacked teams of all time. He always had the best players feeding him the ball and that gave him a big advantage. I'm not even a big Ronaldo fan, but he always did more when playing on team's with lesser players than those insanely stacked Barcelona sides. With Maradonna, I never saw him play - I'm going on the word of Argentinians that told me he was more talented and better than Messi, as well as the word of my Dad who said Maradonna was the best he had ever seen.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
The problem is people are confusing 'best' with 'greatest'. Maradona didn't do enough in his career to be top 4 for 'greatest'.
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What constitutes 'enough'?

He helped a club side win multiple league titles in the strongest league in the world at that time. A club that had never won league titles before him and didn't win a league title again for 30 years after he left. He also helped that team win the only major European silverware in their history. Napoli won almost half of their entire historical trophy haul during Maradona's time there. Which of the other 3 can say that about their clubs? Perhaps Pele for Santos, but definitely not Messi and Ronaldo.

He helped a good but not great team win the World Cup (with arguably the greatest set of individual performances ever seen in that competition) and then led another solid but not great team back to the final four years later, losing to a sole penalty.

He was World player of the year 3 times, South American player of the year 6 times, a World Cup golden and bronze ball winner, a top scorer in multiple leagues and achieved numerous other things.

It seems like you are just playing a game of 'count the trophies' without any kind of contextual analysis, which is not how it works. Or else Dani Alves and Maxwell would be in the GOAT discussion.
 
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Buckie said:
I deducted points for him playing on several of the most stacked teams of all time. He always had the best players feeding him the ball and that gave him a big advantage. I'm not even a big Ronaldo fan, but he always did more when playing on team's with lesser players than those insanely stacked Barcelona sides. With Maradonna, I never saw him play - I'm going on the word of Argentinians that told me he was more talented and better than Messi, as well as the word of my Dad who said Maradonna was the best he had ever seen.
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I mean, those Madrid teams were as stacked as those Barca teams. They’ve gone on to dominate the UCL years after Ronaldo has even left them. So who was really carrying who/feeding who the ball? It’s a silly thing to deduct points on. In fact, Messi probably carried that entire Barca attack whilst they had GOAT level midfielders.
 
When did yall even see Pele playlay? I only saw some bits of highlights. Not criticizing but never did get to see much of him. Legend though,.
 
In terms of how good they were as players:

1. Maradona
2. Messi
3. Pele
4. L.Ronaldo
5. C.Ronaldo

There are so many nuances to take into account, ranging from the quality of pitches, balls, boots, protection from referees, political situations, injuries, personal demons, sports science etc. There are pros and cons of each era. There were games Maradona was just hacked out of, players not getting yellow cards for fouls that today would be a red. Or not getting fouls that today would be a yellow etc etc.

Football is faster today but players also have equipment, facilities, support, medical and sports science light years beyond what Pele and Maradona had. Then there are players like the original Ronaldo, who was so stupidly good, touching a peak that would put him in the top 2/3 of all time until he picked up two devastating knee injuries back to back.

Too many variables to make much sense of it. So going with the most balanced approach I can, and my subjective gut and artistic opinion, that’s my list. In terms of talent, entertainment and pure magic on the ball, Cristiano doesn’t touch the other 4. In fact, if it was on those criteria, there are a few other players I’d put above him too, like Ronaldinho.

Cristiano makes the conversation for his pure relentlessness, and his ruthless goal scoring ability, but he’s also the player on the list that relied most on his physique and was the least team orientated player of the five. As a player he is by far my least favourite of the list, and I’m just talking for the way he played - nothing about his personality etc., that has no place in this discussion. He’s also the player on the list most dependent on the quality of players around him, and getting service, whereas the other four had not only a much greater capability to do it “on their own”, out of nothing; but also had greater capacities to bring others into the game around them.

Cristiano, for me, is more comparable with the other great pure goal scorers of the game like Gert Muller or Romario. Although Romario has a level of flair above them both. It’s a category that I expect Haaland to enter if he continues his current trajectory. And one the injury blighted Van Basten should really be a part of.
 
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SungSam7 said:
I'd say 60 or 70% haven't even seen Maradona or Pele play other than YouTube clips.

Between Ronaldo and Messi, I couldn't decide between the two.

Messi has natural talent, while Ronaldo has talent, he has that hunger and determination to do everything he can to be the best.

But if we were to judge on just talent alone, it would be Messi for sure.
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I'm old enough to have watched them all, although not peak Pele which was roughly 1958-66. The Pele of 1970, who I did watch in real time, was ridiculous and easily stands up to peak Maradona and Ronaldo, though he comes up short IMO to Messi, whose peak was very long and very high. Peak Messi had every tool in the attacking tool kit you could possibly think of and was best of breed in every aspect of attacking play for over a decade. And he created goal chances galore as well. And although he's well into his decline now he's still at an extremely high level, well above Pele and Maradona at the same age.

As for Ronaldo -- the boy I still remember coming on against Bolton and then growing into a man for United -- as great as he is he's a shade or two below Messi.
 
Kwabs said:
Bumping this because I was reading about the Ballon D'Or Dream Team thing that came out in 2020. There were 3 teams selected, a 1st team, a 2nd team and a 3rd team, and obviously all these four guys made the 1st team. There were 110 nominees, 110 of the acknowledged greatest players in history, from which 3 teams were drawn.

I thought it might be interesting to look at which of the big four had the most and least help in terms of teammates listed among those nominees, and this is what it looks like, if I've got it right (I may have missed a couple):

Messi
Busquets
Suarez
Xavi
Iniesta
Eto'o
Henry

Ronaldo
Buffon
Casillas
Van Der Sar
Ramos
Marcelo
Xabi Alonso
Figo

Pele
Carlos Alberto
Djalma Santos
Nilton Santos
Didi
Gerson
Garrincha
Jairzinho
Rivellino

Maradona
Passarella


Obviously, Maradona sticks out like a sore thumb. This will not be news to anyone, but he by far had the least amount of elite support in achieving the things that he did. But of course, he also won less than all the others, so it's up to the individual to decide if this factor makes Maradona the best or not.
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It obviously helps to have top team-mates but you wonder how Maradona would have done with a Real Madrid galactico team where everything didn’t go through him.

Messi has never played better for Argentina with fewer big ‘stars’ than ever in recent years. Only Di Maria I think could be nominated for a future Ballon d’Or Dream Team from that 2022 team. Mac Allister, Enzo, Alvarez, Martinez have a lot of their careers to go but it’s a very high bar.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
He only won 2 league titles in 11 years in Europe and 1 UEFA Cup.

With Argentina he won the World Cup with some massive cheating included, but won 0 Copa America titles while playing in 5 tournaments.

Napoli spent a lot of money and had a strong team and Argentina also had a very strong team.

1 World Cup and 2 Serie A titles is not enough won in his career for people to use the narrative that he single handedly carried his teams.

He is only close to the top of the GOAT debate due to nostalgia. Argue this next sentence all you want, but Cruyff and Platini were both better. Maradona didn't do enough in his career to be in top 4 greatest.

He had one of the highest peak levels but that is not enough to be the greatest.
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I stopped reading at Argentina had a very strong team. You can have your opinion but many will disagree.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
I stopped reading at Argentina had a very strong team. You can have your opinion but many will disagree.
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It was a great team, in the very sense of it.
It worked wonders as a team and in fact it's one of the NTs that played overall better football from any WC.
Diego was beyoidn outstanding to be the catalyst to win it, but it wpoudln't have been possible if that team didn't played as gerat as it did.

Of course by no chance, it was a liss of the most extraordinary footballers ever, nor one of the best Argie teams in such terms, even the prior 82 was filled with extraordinary names, but didn't functioned as a team at all.
Also some of the best players in it were great in South America in a period were not everyone was dying to play in Europe and some of the subs that almost didn't even played were absolute gems technically but Bilardo didn't even need to used them because of how well oiled the team was perfoming in the Cup.
The 86 team peaked in the WC and played perfect and understood perfect how to support Diego.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
The problem is people are confusing 'best' with 'greatest'. Maradona didn't do enough in his career to be top 4 for 'greatest'.
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I dont think there really is a difference to be fair. Not in the way i use the term. For most footballers, pundits, journalists its the same. Maradona consistenly ranked 1st or 2nd before Messi in the greatest of all time lists by Fifa or football journalists.
 
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KeanoMagicHat said:
It obviously helps to have top team-mates but you wonder how Maradona would have done with a Real Madrid galactico team where everything didn’t go through him.

Messi has never played better for Argentina with fewer big ‘stars’ than ever in recent years. Only Di Maria I think could be nominated for a future Ballon d’Or Dream Team from that 2022 team. Mac Allister, Enzo, Alvarez, Martinez have a lot of their careers to go but it’s a very high bar.
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Yes, it was hardly a star-studded team in 2022, so Messi deserves credit for leading them to the success they've had over the past few years. But he's well into his 30s, there's no comparison with his performances in the 2022 WC and Maradona in 1986.

Re your question about Maradona in a galacticos team, it is difficult to say how he would have fared. I mean, he's so good that I'm sure it would have worked somehow, but it is possible that he operated better in 'underdog' situations than as part of some big bully star laden superclub team.
 
Buckie said:
I deducted points for him playing on several of the most stacked teams of all time. He always had the best players feeding him the ball and that gave him a big advantage. I'm not even a big Ronaldo fan, but he always did more when playing on team's with lesser players than those insanely stacked Barcelona sides. With Maradonna, I never saw him play - I'm going on the word of Argentinians that told me he was more talented and better than Messi, as well as the word of my Dad who said Maradonna was the best he had ever seen.
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Both Pele and Ronaldo played for super stacked teams as well, why aren't they deducted points?
Argentina 2022 isn't that stacked btw, when comparing to Pele's Brazil (throughout) or Ronaldo's Portugal (latter years)
 
I like to reframe these types of questions with a mental exercise: If you needed to win a football match to save your life, which player (at their peak) would you rely on?

Messi
Ronaldo
Maradona
Pele
 
bitcoin said:
I like to reframe these types of questions with a mental exercise: If you needed to win a football match to save your life, which player (at their peak) would you rely on?

Messi
Ronaldo
Maradona
Pele
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None of them, R9 before injury.
 
CR/Messi (can't decide)
Maradona
Pele

Club career is always the most important for me.
 
Black Adder said:
None of them, R9 before injury.
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I watched almost every game of Barcelona during the 96/97 season which is R9 at his peak.
Ronaldo was incredible, Messi was still significantly better.
Messi was better at every single aspect of the game except for Ronaldo’s superior physical attributes.

Messi was as good of a passer and playmaker as any midfielder I had ever seen, as good of a finisher as any striker I had ever seen, as good of a dribbler as any winger I had ever seen.

I’m not even a Messi fan (his Barca made my team look like a pub team in the CL finals, why would I) or any specific player fan since Cantona retired and Beckham left for Madrid for that matter, but implying anyone who has ever kicked a ball of football was anywhere near as good and as consistent as him at it, is preposterous to me.
 
LankyHoggie said:
I watched almost every game of Barcelona during the 96/97 season which is R9 at his peak.
Ronaldo was incredible, Messi was still significantly better.
Messi was better at every single aspect of the game except for Ronaldo’s superior physical attributes.

Messi was as good of a passer and playmaker as any midfielder I had ever seen, as good of a finisher as any striker I had ever seen, as good of a dribbler as any winger I had ever seen.

I’m not even a Messi fan (his Barca made my team look like a pub team in the CL finals, why would I) or any specific player fan since Cantona retired and Beckham left for Madrid for that matter, but implying anyone who has ever kicked a ball of football was anywhere near as good and as consistent as him at it, is preposterous to me.
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I agree, Messi is best ever, no doubt about it, just R9 is my personal preference.
 
Buckie said:
I deducted points for him playing on several of the most stacked teams of all time. He always had the best players feeding him the ball and that gave him a big advantage. I'm not even a big Ronaldo fan, but he always did more when playing on team's with lesser players than those insanely stacked Barcelona sides. With Maradonna, I never saw him play - I'm going on the word of Argentinians that told me he was more talented and better than Messi, as well as the word of my Dad who said Maradonna was the best he had ever seen.
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I think its weird when you saw what Messi provides in terms of service and how he´s capable to create his own chances. When Ronaldo emerged as a major goalscorer in 2007/2008 it became all about feeding Ronaldo. Messi when he became an insane goalscorer was a still a major creative force and became even more so when Iniesta and Xavi got old or retired and was always the main playmaker for Argentina.

When you see this clip of his succesfull through balls in the 2012 season which was when he scored so much he broke the all time record for goals in a year you wonder how he could create so many chances as well and you can see how wasteful his teammates were for him that season.

 
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bitcoin said:
I like to reframe these types of questions with a mental exercise: If you needed to win a football match to save your life, which player (at their peak) would you rely on?

Messi
Ronaldo
Maradona
Pele
Click to expand...

It will always depend on the structure of the team and the task demanded.

If it comes to finishing, Pele and Romario are the ones for me. Messi is pretty close, but he still is less forward oriented than the other two.
I preffer those two also above CR, R9 or Maradona in that particular task.

PD: BTW just playing this sort of games, and even knowing it would be a sacriledge to use Diego only as that, I've never seen a winger as great as Diego could have been if he JUST dedicated to that role. Pure perfection with every task demanded for such role, from the required ability to dribble, cross, etc...to the creativity, intelligence and generosity that even many extraordinary wingers times fail to have.
 
Kwabs said:
What constitutes 'enough'?

He helped a club side win multiple league titles in the strongest league in the world at that time. A club that had never won league titles before him and didn't win a league title again for 30 years after he left. He also helped that team win the only major European silverware in their history. Napoli won almost half of their entire historical trophy haul during Maradona's time there. Which of the other 3 can say that about their clubs? Perhaps Pele for Santos, but definitely not Messi and Ronaldo.
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I don't really think thats fair. You're comparing a midtable club to some of the biggest clubs in the world. Messi won 35 trophies in his time there which includes 10 la ligas and 4 cls and 7 copa del rey. Thats 35% of their total trophy haul. 4 of their 5 cls.

Ronaldo. Well he joined the biggest club in England and was the star attacking player to win a long overdue CL to establish United as the strongest club in the world at the time. and then he joined the greatest club in the world. He was the key attacker for the 3 peat. 2 la ligas in 9 years isn't impressive though. But its not like he didnt leave a legacy.
 
bitcoin said:
I like to reframe these types of questions with a mental exercise: If you needed to win a football match to save your life, which player (at their peak) would you rely on?

Messi
Ronaldo
Maradona
Pele
Click to expand...

Messi I guess.

It's hard to gauge though as I've only seen clips of Maradona and Pele.

For some reason I always say Maradona was the greatest because of his charisma and personality.

I played as a defender and if Maradona was on my team, my thinking would be "If we keep a clean sheet, he'll conjure a goal out of nothing" but you could say the same as the others.

Logically Messi is the GOAT as he was exceptional for so long but he played on maybe the greatest club side ever with modern refereeing protecting him.

Where does George Best come in comparison to the greats?
Maybe 6th or 7th? Assuming we're not counting GKs and defenders.
 
bitcoin said:
I like to reframe these types of questions with a mental exercise: If you needed to win a football match to save your life, which player (at their peak) would you rely on?

Messi
Ronaldo
Maradona
Pele
Click to expand...

Considering how many times ive seen Messi in his prime/peak torture the greatest Real Madrid sides of all time I'd go with him. His highlight reel against them is poetic. Not just goals but also just skipping past his opponents and then playing the perfect pass.
 
Gehrman said:
I don't really think thats fair. You're comparing a midtable club to some of the biggest clubs in the world. Messi won 35 trophies in his time there which includes 10 la ligas and 4 cls and 7 copa del rey. Thats 35% of their total trophy haul. 4 of their 5 cls.

Ronaldo. Well he joined the biggest club in England and was the star attacking player to win a long overdue CL to establish United as the strongest club in the world at the time. and then he joined the greatest club in the world. He was the key attacker for the 3 peat. 2 la ligas in 9 years isn't impressive though. But its not like he didnt leave a legacy.
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No it isn't
 
I'm biased for Cristiano and Messi as I never watched Pele or Maradonna when they were active. From what I've seen in videos and read about probably Pele could be considered the best ever giving all he won with Brazil.

1. Cristiano
2. Messi
3. Pele
4. Maradonna
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
He only won 2 league titles in 11 years in Europe and 1 UEFA Cup.

With Argentina he won the World Cup with some massive cheating included, but won 0 Copa America titles while playing in 5 tournaments.

Napoli spent a lot of money and had a strong team and Argentina also had a very strong team.

1 World Cup and 2 Serie A titles is not enough won in his career for people to use the narrative that he single handedly carried his teams.

He is only close to the top of the GOAT debate due to nostalgia. Argue this next sentence all you want, but Cruyff and Platini were both better. Maradona didn't do enough in his career to be in top 4 greatest.

He had one of the highest peak levels but that is not enough to be the greatest.
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Messi won most of his accolades with Barcelona, a star studded Barcelona vs Real Madrid in a two horse La Liga.

Maradona won his titles with Napoli, against a star studded AC Milan, Inter and Juve (with many other teams in Serie A having "just as good" a team as Napoli)

And to throw this tid bit in as well, Messi never won a Champion League without Xavi or Iniesta in the side.
 
Passitlikescholes said:
Messi won most of his accolades with Barcelona, a star studded Barcelona vs Real Madrid in a two horse La Liga.

Maradona won his titles with Napoli, against a star studded AC Milan, Inter and Juve (with many other teams in Serie A having "just as good" a team as Napoli)

And to throw this tid bit in as well, Messi never won a Champion League without Xavi or Iniesta in the side.
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Xavi and Iniesta never won a champions league without Messi in the side
 
1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Pele
4. Maradona

I feel like Pele & Maradona never played to the consistency of Messi & Ronaldo, but they were important to the history of the sport as the most consistent players relative to their given times of play.

With regards to Messi - he is the better player to Ronaldo both in his technical ability and his ability to completely win every trophy he ever participated in. At the same time though Ronaldo is arguably the best physical player of all time, which people seem to rate less because technique seems something more that your born with rather than a physique that you're worked on to build.

However, ive always been someone who has felt that Barcelona players are slightly overrated because of them being heavily influenced by the best manager of all time - Guardiola. Just to put some context, Rodri looks like a current Balon D'or winner and an absolute legend. De Bruyne is going down to some as the best midfielders of all time in the PL. Would Busquets or Rodri be as good as they were if they never played under Guardiola or got his coaching ? I believe that Guardiola takes players up 2 notches their base value to the point they can play at a higher level even eventually without him as seen with Spains WC wins post Guardiola's time at Barcelona. I believe this with Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets, Pique, Walker, Stones, De Bruyne, Rodri & the list goes on. They are better because of Guardiola.

I rate players coached by Guardiola less than their deemed qualities - but ultimately i can't judge players for how they achieved success over the level of success they did achieve in their careers. And ultimately they still do go down as the best players of all time in their positions & whether Guardiola influenced them as much as i think he did - it simply doesn't matter. They are what they are. The best.

However, there is still a little wondering thought in my head - what could Ronaldo have been with Guardiola's coaching? Could he have been even better than he was being taught by the best tactical & technical manager of all time more than the best man managing manager of all time in SAF? People seem to forget just how technically gifted young Ronaldo was as a young player with all his step overs, dribbling and cutbacks. Sounds kind of scary playing Ronaldo instead of David Villa on the LW after learning to be cohesive alongside Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Alba and others. Even players like Rooney who are no doubt club legends but maybe underachievers relative to their potential, i do wonder if being coached by Guardiola would have made them in to complete legends of the sport.
 
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