Ralf vs Ole ( performance vs result)

Amadaeus

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Not sure if such a thread is allowed, but since we have the Messi vs Ronaldo thread, I will give it a shot :). Mods if you can add poll that will be appreciated.

So, if you had to choose one, which route do you think is more ideal? Under Ole, we had a lot of fortunate wins and individual brilliance and luck was a key part of his success. However, under Ralf we have seen better performances, but we can’t seem to get the right result. Would it have been better to stick with luck rather than improvement in our gameplan?
My opinion, I rather have better performance to be honest even though, we are struggling to beat average side.
 
Me we have neither. Ole had no success and Rangnicks performances have been underwhelming.
 
Oles luck and reliance of individual brilliance to win games when we were shit had ran out, hence his sacking.
 
In the long run better performances will get better results.

With Ole the kind of performances we had it could be attributed to managing. Now seeing us being so wasteful it's obviously on the players.

I mean how can anyone watch today's game and blame Ragnick is unexplainable to me.
 
At this point, anyone who can commence a solid clearout before building a squad for advanced football system will have my ounce of trust... and so far both Ralf & Ole are portrayed as interim.
 
Are you asking would we rather have good performances or be lucky? Because that's an odd question.

Yes, we should focus on performing better. Because you can't focus on being more lucky.
 
Ralf, but I don’t want him anywhere near the permanent job.
 
Ralf over Ole 100%, struggle with how this is even a question.

Ole had three years and couldn't define a style of play, built a squad of players who done suit eachother and overall left us worse than he found us.

Ralf inherited a bloated mess of a squad, has got them blaming a style of football and started a clear out in the winter window. If our strikers could finish we would easily have another 8 points and still be in the FA cup.

I'd give Ralf another year.
 
There’s no point to this comparison. Ole ran us into to a ditch. Ralf’s job is to steady the ship until a permanent manager can be secured.
 
Amadaeus said:
Not sure if such a thread is allowed, but since we have the Messi vs Ronaldo thread, I will give it a shot :). Mods if you can add poll that will be appreciated.

So, if you had to choose one, which route do you think is more ideal? Under Ole, we had a lot of fortunate wins and individual brilliance and luck was a key part of his success. However, under Ralf we have seen better performances, but we can’t seem to get the right result. Would it have been better to stick with luck rather than improvement in our gameplan?
My opinion, I rather have better performance to be honest even though, we are struggling to beat average side.
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See my post in the Ralf thread. By the numbers, Ole has outperformed Ralf in managerial results, xG, and goals scored so far.
 
Ole is a shower of absolute shite, like this thread. Rangnick was dealt a shite card from said shower of shite and the predicament of interim remit.

/thread.
 
lilcurt said:
Ralf over Ole 100%, struggle with how this is even a question.

Ole had three years and couldn't define a style of play, built a squad of players who done suit eachother and overall left us worse than he found us.

Ralf inherited a bloated mess of a squad, has got them blaming a style of football and started a clear out in the winter window. If our strikers could finish we would easily have another 8 points and still be in the FA cup.

I'd give Ralf another year.
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Yet had better results….
 
VP89 said:
Ole is a shower of absolute shite, like this thread. Rangnick was dealt a shite card from said shower of shite and the predicament of interim remit.

/thread.
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Really? It’s more or less the same squad. Ralf must be a genius, Ole must be an idiot, right? Nuance fella… both can be bad.
 
The theme of ‘papering over the cracks’ has faded out from the Utd characteristics since Ralf took over, which I think is a good thing long term even though it’ll be a short term pain (hopefully)

I remember the many good results with bad performances under Solskjaer and now we have bad results with good performances.
 
sullydnl said:
Are you asking would we rather have good performances or be lucky? Because that's an odd question.

Yes, we should focus on performing better. Because you can't focus on being more lucky.
Click to expand...

asking whether we would have been better of sticking with ole towards the end of the season. Even though, we werent performing well, I feel that our result might have been a bit better. Not a fan of ole and it was right to sack him, but Ralf results makes me question whether we would have been better of sticking to the ethos the last administration and at least kept Carrick and McKenna until the end of the season. Maybe it is just Ralf that is highlighting how bad things are at the moment.
 
VP89 said:
Ole is a shower of absolute shite, like this thread. Rangnick was dealt a shite card from said shower of shite and the predicament of interim remit.

/thread.
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This post comes across as very rude.
 
arnie_ni said:
Oles luck and reliance of individual brilliance to win games when we were shit had ran out, hence his sacking.
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This argument is quite funny about Ole. Crazy how those same players were able to produce so many moments of individual brilliance and now can’t finish and are terrible.

We are playing solid football now, but it’s completely uninspiring.
 
Dan_F said:
This argument is quite funny about Ole. Crazy how those same players were able to produce so many moments of individual brilliance and now can’t finish and are terrible.

We are playing solid football now, but it’s completely uninspiring.
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How's it funny? Bruno was other worldy for the first 12 months and literally dragged us to wins in games we were shite.

Once he stopped that, which happened under ole around Xmas last year the results nosedived right through to his sacking.
 
Amadaeus said:
asking whether we would have been better of sticking with ole towards the end of the season. Even though, we werent performing well, I feel that our result might have been a bit better. Not a fan of ole and it was right to sack him, but Ralf results makes me question whether we would have been better of sticking to the ethos the last administration and at least kept Carrick and McKenna until the end of the season. Maybe it is just Ralf that is highlighting how bad things are at the moment.
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I have no idea why you'd think any of Ole, Carrick or McKenna would have got better results than Ralf has given they had us in free-fall.

You've presented a false dichotomy. It wasn't a choice between performances and results because when we sacked Ole he wasn't offering performances, results, luck or the semblance of regaining any of the three.
 
DSG said:
Over the course of his tenure at United, Ole has had better results. This season, no. But we had a much more difficult fixture list.
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This season under Ole. We lost to Villa, Watford, Leicester. Destroyed by City and Liverpool. An other than Leeds, didn't have a single good performance.

No point looking at previous seasons, we never played decent football and there wasn't a manager anywhere near as lucky in terms of playing poor but snatching the result, of that can't lead you to trophies which sees you losing finals to teams like Villarreal.

I love Ole, but he was an awful manager who has built a terrible squad of misfits.
 
Ralf has been much better for us for performance, I can see what he wants us to do and we have a game plan which we didn’t seem to have under Ole. Only negative is he’s interim (right now) and won’t have an opportunity to bring in he’s own players!
 
Ralf has stabilised the ship but we aren’t playing at the level Ole had us at for most of the last two seasons, so I’d say, so far, performances and results are falling short of the majority of Ole’s spell in charge.

That’s fine - he’s interim for a reason and I don’t really want us to do too well that we end up passing up the chance to get a really top manager in the summer. Still, hopefully he can scrape us into the top 4.
 
Amadaeus said:
Not sure if such a thread is allowed, but since we have the Messi vs Ronaldo thread, I will give it a shot :). Mods if you can add poll that will be appreciated.

So, if you had to choose one, which route do you think is more ideal? Under Ole, we had a lot of fortunate wins and individual brilliance and luck was a key part of his success. However, under Ralf we have seen better performances, but we can’t seem to get the right result. Would it have been better to stick with luck rather than improvement in our gameplan?
My opinion, I rather have better performance to be honest even though, we are struggling to beat average side.
Click to expand...
Christ.. Can’t say I agree with any of your premises. We’ve become more and more boring to watch - and you say it’s a result of better overall performance? Our schedule has been the easiest ever, so I have to say I’m very disappointed.

Yeh.. and our away record and pretty good record against top team under Ole’s first and second year was all about luck? Ole was way out on the ice in the end, but did a good job until this season. I’ll be very surprised if Rangnick outperform Ole’s best seasons before he steps down.
 
Polar said:
Christ.. Can’t say I agree with any of your premises. We’ve become more and more boring to watch - and you say it’s a result of better overall performance? Our schedule has been the easiest ever, so I have to say I’m very disappointed.

Yeh.. and our away record and pretty good record against top team under Ole’s first and second year was all about luck? Ole was way out on the ice in the end, but did a good job until this season. I’ll be very surprised if Rangnick outperform Ole’s best seasons before he steps down.
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He cant get a fair shot at doing so because hes interim.
 
Polar said:
We’ve become more and more boring to watch - and you say it’s a result of better overall performance?
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Well it certainly wasn’t boring watching us lose to Young Boys, and get humiliatingly twatted by Leicester, Liverpool, City and Watford…. I’ll give you that.

How the feck you’d expect a manager who comes in December and with zero spend to outperform the best season of a manager who had multiple seasons and 300+ million quid is a mystery only you can understand.
 
lex talionis said:
There’s no point to this comparison. Ole ran us into to a ditch. Ralf’s job is to steady the ship until a permanent manager can be secured.
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Sounds like when Ole was the intern manager and comparing mou and ole. Ole was here to steady the ship. Now ralf is here to steady the ship. looping
 
I can't put the last 3 draws we've had in the league on RR.

The likes of Ronaldo, Bruno, Rashford, Sancho etc have experience in scoring at least 15-20 goals a season at some point in their career.

At our worst I've known us to be boring and unable to muster clear cut chances. Under RR, we might be boring at times in games, slow...but more recently wasteful and profilgate are the only terms that fit.

In terms of Watford today, every single outfield player who started made a key pass. I'm not big on stats but I don't think that happens often, especially in a 0-0.
 
This really is a daft thread. Ralf is trying lay the foundations, working largely with a squad of misfits and has beens.
Ole relied on players Woodward supplied him with and was far too inexperienced to manage a Premier league side, let alone a top 4 team.
 
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I am not even the biggest fan of Ole's tenure but this whole idea we were just crap and we play some scintillating football now needs to die. Under Ole we had good moments minus this season but under Ralf so far we have just been underwhelming. I cannot see him becoming our permanent manager.
 
Ralf’s reign so far reminds me a bit of Mourinho’s first season with us. Lots of huff and puff, attempts to control and attack the opposition with some chances created but unable to finish them off.
 
Ole had two good seasons. Finished 3rd and 2nd. I enjoyed most of his time with the club especially after how depressing Jose’s last 18 months were

Things went horribly and spectacularly wrong under Ole this season. Ralf has steadied the ship somewhat and at times I have seen improvements

I maintain our biggest problem and cause is Ronaldo. The sooner he is gone the better
 
Reditus said:
Ole had two good seasons. Finished 3rd and 2nd. I enjoyed most of his time with the club especially after how depressing Jose’s last 18 months were

Things went horribly and spectacularly wrong under Ole this season. Ralf has steadied the ship somewhat and at times I have seen improvements

I maintain our biggest problem and cause is Ronaldo. The sooner he is gone the better
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Agree with all of this.

Woodward has been United's biggest problem since Fergie left. And Ronaldo was his parting gift.
 
I feel like Ole did well in the big games before this season in the league, but failed to beat weaker sides to win the league title.

Not sure about Ralph since he just played weaker sides.
 
Ole had a 54% winning ratio when he got the boot.

Ralf has 47% so far and hasnt played City. Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs or Arsenal yet.

And before people bring up the money Ole spent....he won 9 out of his first 10 games drawing the other, spending no money and we played much better football in that run that anything Rangnick has produced so far.

Ole was never going to deliver a title over Pep and Klopp, granted, but Rangnick never will either.

We need to go and get a world class coach and coaching team this summer. No excuses. If we decide to give Ralf another year it will be another year wasted.
 
Great demonstration of a rhetorical question.
 
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