And we got battered first 2 games because of it
Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped
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And we got battered first 2 games because of it
Ahh, the lofty heights of 66 points, 66 points, 74 points and “dropping like a tonne of lead from a hot air balloon”.
With zero to show for it, after spending over 300m, and more than any other PL club in that time.
I’d imagine a lot a lot of managers could manage that.
It’s the only possibile comparison we can make, because both had the same squad to deal with.
You can’t possibly compare a guy spending hundreds of millions & a couple years on shaping his own squad with a guy coming in for a short term position to take over a side in absolute freefall.
Is there any point? god no. But there’s no real point to most of the trash we talk about on here.
That’s probably on the club for downplaying Ragnick’s role to Ten Hag behind his back. They wanted to get rid of him.
Not sure Rangnick was ever the right person for the job, but what this does show is that he was put in a literally impossible position.
Interim manager with no remit to make long term decisions on the squad or ship people out, and at the same time had senior players like Ronaldo hell bent on not listening to a word he said adapting like they were above him.
I mean what was he actually meant to do with that?
Interim manager with no remit to make long term decisions on the squad or ship people out, and at the same time had senior players like Ronaldo hell bent on not listening to a word he said adapting like they were above him.
I mean what was he actually meant to do with that?
In hindsight he was a terrIble choice because he so desperately wants to play a brand of football he’s almost fanatic about. In hindsight, an interim option often works best when it’s someone who just let’s the players do as they please and brings some feel good factor to the training ground and dressing room.
He was on an absolute hiding to nothing, not least when Carrick & McKenna fecked off also. If Ronaldo and co were wondering “who the feck is this guy?” when RR showed up, imagine their thoughts when Amas & co turned up to train them
Not say these players are shit and they need an almost entire new 11?
That’s opposite of what an interim is supposed to do
He didn’t say that in Jan though did he in fairness?
He said it after we got dicked at Anfield with 5 games left to play, and he said…
And that’s probably the club’s fault also for having him believe he’d be involved in the future of building the club, which was also pretty daft looking back now. Having an interim think like that and give that information off too the players, no matter how disappointed aint a good move even with just a few games left.
He certainly wasn’t wrong mind, we have 6 new players now who have all been brought in to play the way the new manager wants to play football.
Please let this thread die already.
Clearly. Hence the shock when he found out it was spot on.
It was no different to when Solskjaer was appointed though was it? It was only because we went on that amazing run and did the impossible against PSG that Ole was given three years.
If Wreck-It had had a similar impact I'm sure he would have been in the conversation. He even said himself that he would not discount putting his own name forward to the board if things were going well. But as we all know he was an unmitigated disaster.
It was not impossible to muster even the smallest of new manager bounces but he couldn't even manage that.
Ffs, let it go.
Rangnick, the highly respected architect of ‘geganpress fußball’, who was said to revolutionise the way we played, I distinctly remember the commentators on MOTD getting overly excited during his first match in charge. It all reminded me a bit of when the late Josef Venglos took over at Villa with high hopes only for it to fizzle out all those years ago.
He may have been right that we needed a load of new players. But his stint was amongst the worst in managerial history - It’s successfully lowered some fans’ standards to thinking ETH is doing a sensational job sat in 5th.
It was significantly different.
Ole was a club legend who came with a former Fergie assistant and Carrick. He wasn’t ridiculed like RR obviously was, listening to Ronaldo’s “who the feck is this guy”, and RR’s right hand man was even worse, a complete laughing stock that was failing in the MLS.
Ole & Ralf between them managed a fecking 58 point season, the one prior was Ole’s best with 74, prior to that we had two 66 point seasons.
Win our game in hand v Leeds (h) and we’re a point off third.
Judging by the difficulty of game played so far (already beaten Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs & Leicester, and drew away to Chelsea) and what fixtures are remaining, I’m pretty confident ETH won’t just beat last season’s shit show, but will amass more points than Ole ever managed. Right now he’s making 1.85 points per game so is on course for 71 points. Since Antony and Casemiro came into the side that ppg has increased again.
“Sensational” ? No, but anyone watching last season and expecting sensational is a deluded moron. But it’s a bloody darn good improvement. To be on course in just a matter of months in the job to beat Ole’s best season and produce our highest league points total in 5 years after the absolute clusterfeck he inherited is seriously impressive.
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When we’ve had results like 1-2 v Brighton, 0-4 v Brentford, 1-3 v Villa I wouldn’t read too much into the difficulty of opposition so far in the sense that we’ve played a lot of the bigger teams. In fact all wins against lower league opposition have been close and won by a single goal at best.
Let’s see how it goes but the fact Ole achieved 2nd and 3rd with mostly the same squad, makes the fact we are mainly comparing with last season is a bit disingenuous in my opinion.
What?
We’re not mainly comparing with last season, but we also can’t just pretend it didn’t happen either.
Whichever way you look at it, we look on course to end with our best points total in 5 years, better than anything the shitshow that was Ole produced even after years in the job.
Calling 3rd with 66 points an achievement… talk about lowering of standards indeed.*
*I’ll say this for standards, if we end this season with less than 70 points and no cups, ETH has underachieved no matter the league position. That’s the absolute least I’d expect of a new manager in his first season at United after spending big money. So far only Mourinho & LVG achieved the bare minimum in their first seasons, and they were ultimately a bit shite too.
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Did he say that?
He was pretty positive from what I recall, until it was obvious they weren't even trying.
Not to mention that the main source of our improvement so far this season has been a load of new signings and Varane being fit more often. Coupled with Ten Hag not having his hands tied by bring a temporary appointment. If he does get the club back where it wants to be he pretty much will have to sign a new first 11.
I honestly don't think there's much a temporary manager can do with a toxic set of players who aren't going to listen or follow his instructions. Well there is literally nothing he can do, so just think it's a bit dumb to blame him.
I would put more of the blame at Ole and the club in general for dumb squad management and not imposing any kind of standards on the players. If Rangnick had come into a dressing room that had an ounce of discipline or healthy competition he might have had half a chance.
Also we have players who go to piers Morgan and slag the manager and club off. Most teams and managers don't have to deal with nearly that level of spoilt stupidity.
Yes but not RR.
Eh yeah, I'm aware mate.
And you seemed to have missed mine, an extra 2-3 points last season would have seen us finish 5th as opposed to 5th. So it most certainly wouldn't have mattered last season.
You wouldn't hire Pep as an Interim coach though mate so it's a moot point. I could see a club hiring Allardyce as an Interim but then I don't imagine Big Sam is going to roll into a club in December, changing the formation, changing players positions and trying to them gegenpressing. He's a decent manager beyond going a bit more defensive I don't imagine he would change much with regards to how a team is set-up and plays. That's what Interim coaches are supposed to do, get the best out of what they have at their disposal in the short time they are in charge. Klopp wasn't an Interim coach so again it's a moot point. It made sense for him to change their style and stick to it as he was going to be around long term.
That was mostly just fan fiction stuff that was often regurgitated by many on here as opposed to anything the club indicated they were trying to do.
ETH and RR don't even play a similar style of football and Erik was probably no1 choice for permanent manager before Ralf was even hired. And Ralf wasn't assessing anything, at least he wasn't hired to do any assessments or pass on dossiers (confirmed by him). That was just another thread of the fan narrative that built up around his tenure and seemed to accelerate once the season went tits up. Sort of a coping mechanism to make his hiring seem worth while.
I think you are giving the club way too much credit (but you're not alone I was caught up in it too at first). In hindsight there doesn't seem to have been much of a plan or thinking in the hiring of Ralf at all.
Thanks, @stevoc . I can see your reasonings. I slightly disagree that manager, whether interim or not, need to change their football style based on available players. Usually good managers already have certain style that they're strong at, and it would be a massive gamble to change it. But yeah, I have seen many managers have done that with mixed results. Ancelotti's Milan is different than his Madrid with great result. So I'm not totally against your POV.
RR was promised a consultant role following his interim tenure. The thought has to be using his experience of managing the squad as the base. That kinda logic assumption. I think he also said at the beginning that his managerial appointment could also be extended beyond the 4-6 months.
But you're probably right. All he was could be just a 20m experiment/ massive cocked-up by the new United guy.
RR was promised a consultant role following his interim tenure. The thought has to be using his experience of managing the squad as the base. That kinda logic assumption. I think he also said at the beginning that his managerial appointment could also be extended beyond the 4-6 months.
But you're probably right. All he was could be just a 20m experiment/ massive cocked-up by the new United guy.
No I wont. Because you have posts like yours and others with claims that it was all Rangnick, even going as far as childish name calling. These posts do nothing but deflect from the fact that our squad wasnt good enough to challenge and that we had several toxic players in the dressing room that hopefully never get to play for us again.
Rangnick was utter shite, but we need to keep the players and the board responsible as well.
I don't think Rangnick was utter shite, although he clearly lacked the ability to impose himself on the squad under those particular circumstances. I think he was probably seriously undercut by the fact he was an interim appointment, but I also think you're right to point to dressing room toxicity. His tenure was a failure, but that reflects badly primarily on upper management (who obviously chose the wrong solution), and then on the squad and Rangnick himself. And though he wasn't much of a coach, he was right about a lot of things.
Yeah, I agree, our hiring him was a pretty confused decision.
It made some sort of sense when we thought his primary role was going to be “upstairs”. But when it transpired that the consultancy was just and add-on to persuade him to come in to do the interim, it looks ludicrous. He wasn’t even really a coach.
I think our board thought they were being very clever identifying a guy who was highly regarded but was not in high demand as a coach - I think they thought it was an under-the-radar masterstroke. Wrong. Just another F’ up by the board.
Ronaldo: ….and I’ll tell you who else is a useless prick…
Rangnick:
Rangnick:
Wreck-It came on the back of his legacy and reputation too. The so-called Father of Gegenpressing and Builder of Clubs. He was welcomed with a lot of hope and optimism despite being somewhat of an unknown quantity and he had the same brief as Solskjaer till the end of the season.
It was only after it became apparent that he was a fraud that the ridicule began to kick in.
It was all downhill after the first 30 minutes against Palace.
Ultimately, it was a symptom of United having no plan. The possibility of Ole falling apart at some point should not have been a shock given his modest CV (and particularly after that Europa League abomination) and October/November is very early in the season to be appointing a caretaker. The club should have had a list of potential, realistic replacements in its pocket but instead left Ole as a dead man walking for weeks while it scrambled to find someone (anyone) to come in and stop the ship sinking further. And it kind of worked - we were only losing 2-1 or 2-0 under Ralph instead of 4-0.
Hopefully ETH is worth the wasted season. It’s looking generally positive so far.
I'm pretty confident that if RR was given 400m and 3 years we wouldn't be in the shit were still in after the hydrid squad Ole left behind. One thing RR has a great track record on and that's putting together squads that compliment each other. Ole just went out and bought players regardless if they fitted a system or not.
All that money spent and his only signing that has made an impact has been Bruno who was just a last throw of the dice to try and save Oles job anyway.
RR was an atrocious appointment for whatever the reasons but his stint can't be compared to Oles or even ETH who has gotten rid of players who were affecting the dressing room such as Pogba and Lingard, had a pre-season and has spent a shit load himself. All these comparisons just reek of attempted justification that RR was a worse manager than Ole. There's no shame in admitting both were shit although under different circumstances.
If Rangnick had a quarter of the budget OGS received we would have been better off. None of these players works well with each other.
Regardless of Ole, I mean let’s just forget about Ole.
I’m talking about RR now. No amount of money was going to turn him into a good manager. You might as well say you could do the job yourself if you had enough money. He was not, IS not cut out for club coaching. I am confident he would not get us into the top four, ever.
I'd love to hear his response to the Ronaldo digs. I got the feeling he was an honest, decent man regardless of his catastrophic time in charge.
Unfortunately we can't just forget about Ole as it was him that put the squad together, pampered to the players whims and basically made them gutless as they never had to justify their actual performances which had its obvious knock on effect.
Just look at the mess RR inherited. In house fighting, Ronaldo/Maguire. The cnut who won't be named, Martial wanting away, Cavani turning up when he wanted. Players like Rashford downing tools, Pogba and Lingard stinking the place up. McFred. The players deciding they didn't like hard work after 40 minutes against Palace. All this happened under Oles watch ( less the game against Palace) and I have serious doubts that if ETH had of come in instead of RR as interim he would of faired any better.
We all agree ETH is a much better manager than RR but it's still taken him the same time that RR had to make us look like we're going in the right direction and that's after having a preseason, spending 200+m and not having to deal with the distractions such as Pogba and Lingard. I'd go as far as to say that not even the worlds best manager in the present moment Pep would of faired any better because what he would of inherited was rotten to the core which is why RR shouldn't be judged as harshly as he is making the comparisons Ole v RR pointless.
Compare this to Moyes taking over the premier league champions
feck me, the man has a ridiculous amount of qualifications as coach, and in 2018-2019 came 3rd in the Bundesliga man. (2 seasons earlier he won the same club promotion to the top league)
It’s not quite the fecking same as saying @OrcaFat could have taken Leipzig to 3rd and the Champions League now is it?
The way people tell it now, you’d think the cnut had been living on the moon since the 90’s.
We can just forget about Ole in the RR thread when we are talking about RR. So let’s do that. There must be an Ole thread somewhere if you need it.
It doesn’t matter what he did or didn’t get, what he came into, or what he used to do when he was young (not much, by the way). The reality is that from about three weeks into the job he looked absolutely knackered and after that did very little but shrug or complain. He didn’t really want the job and it was obvious he wasn’t up to it. Many of us put up with it because we thought the consultancy was the main event but that turned out not to be true so he didn’t even have that going for him.
It is plain nutty to debate what he might have done if “this” or “that”. His job was to do as well as possible with what he had until the end of the season. I don’t know anyone who thought he came up to scratch.
Once again, the idea that he would have been good (or even somewhat better) if he had several years and half a billion quid is firstly pretty pointless to contemplate but also unlikely when you look at his complete lack of energy and imagination.
Our first two games of this season, even under a quality modern new manager show us just what a clusterfeck Ole left behind. Thankfully it panicked the club into spending more, cause whenever we start with a side that resembles anything like an Ole 11, we look absolutely horrendous. Once we add Martinez, Antony, Casemiro, Eriksen, even Garnacho… you see an improvement that is staggering in comparison.
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