Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Solskjaer managed to do alright with virtually the same squad (probably a weaker squad in fact).

Let’s see how Ole did with the exact same squad.

17 games - 7 defeats, 3 draws, 7 wins. (ppg. 1.411)

Ralf:

29 games - 8 defeats, 10 draws, 11 wins (ppg. 1.59)

Safe to say Ole did worse with exactly the same squad. Ralf was wank, but had to scrape the barrel of shit coaches from around the World when Carrick & McKenna bounced, had no pre-season, none of his own players, and was clearly undermined and ridiculed by Ronaldo and co.

 

[Zen86]

Let’s see how Ole did with the exact same squad.

17 games - 7 defeats, 3 draws, 7 wins.

Ole was a dead man walking after Liverpool. The squad knew it and the board should’ve put an end to it long before they did. Carrick steadied the ship, and RR turned it back into a shitshow. He couldn’t even manage the measliest of bounces.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Ole was a dead man walking after Liverpool. The squad knew it and the board should’ve put an end to it long before they did. Carrick steadied the ship, and RR turned it back into a shitshow. He couldn’t even manage the measliest of bounces.

We should also mention he had a worse squad, cause… Greenwood.

The bounce actually came from sacking Ole. We’d lost 7 in 12 up until Watford, then lost just once in 12, winning 8.

We didn’t really hit a shitshow again as you remember until after we went out of the Champions League. At that point the players completely stopped giving a shit.

From losing 7 in 12, we actually lost just 2 games (v. Wolves home & Man City away) until we went to Madrid, that Atletico defeat was our 3rd in 23 games. After that though, the shitshow began as our knobhead players threw in the towel on the interim manager and his coaches as they felt that had zero to play for, they then lost 5 in 9 the spineless feckwits.

 

[Robbie Boy]

We should also mention he had a worse squad, cause… Greenwood.

The bounce actually came from sacking Ole. We’d lost 7 in 12 up until Watford, then lost just once in 12, winning 8.

We didn’t really hit a shitshow again as you remember until after we went out of the Champions League. At that point the players completely stopped giving a shit.

From losing 7 in 12, we actually lost just 2 games (v. Wolves home & Man City away) until we went to Madrid, that Atletico defeat was our 3rd in 23 games. After that though, the shitshow began as our knobhead players threw in the towel on the interim manager and his coaches as they felt that had zero to play for, they then lost 5 in 9 the spineless feckwits.

Last season in its totality is just best forgotten; it was an absolute disaster.

I do find it amusing that people still use Ralf as a way to absolve Ole; both of them were never fit to manage the club.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Last season in its totality is just best forgotten; it was an absolute disaster.

I do find it amusing that people still use Ralf as a way to absolve Ole; both of them were never fit to manage the club.

Absolutely.
I’ll defend Ralf somewhat in that he was never brought in to manage longterm and was on an absolute hiding to nothing, but yeah quite clearly we’d have been much better off just bringing in someone with a feel good factor instead to be interim.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Absolutely.
I’ll defend Ralf somewhat in that he was never brought in to manage longterm and was on an absolute hiding to nothing, but yeah quite clearly we’d have been much better off just bringing in someone with a feel good factor instead to be interim.

I also reckon he regrets taking the job.

 

[stevoc]

United had trouble scoring when Ronaldo didn't score. He had a big drought from about Nov/Dec until March or so. Too many dropped points because nobody was clinical. Similar issue this season, even w Marcus back to his normal level...which still isn't good enough to where United want to be. Not everything goes through Bruno as it once did, however he's still a primary threat to contribute goals and assists. If Martial stays fit, simialr w Antony, they would be a good unit.

I'd argue Ronaldo's drought was largely down to how the team was being set-up.

Ralf came in mid-season and chopped and changed formations, tried to change the style and started playing some players out of position. Switching Sancho to the left (where he hasn't been great this season) and almost exclusively using Rashford on the right (where it's well known he isn't productive) wasn't the most sensible decision. Before the signing of Antony Erik quickly spotted that was a problem and switched them back.

 

[stevoc]

To be fair to RR, he came in as interim mid-season with 4-5 months in contract:
- Coaches he could get were bottom of the barrel quality, due to the contract's timeframe.
- Existing players didn't suit his playing style.
- He couldn't get any players to suit his style at all.
- And players knew he would be in charge only for 4-5 months, so some just could care less and played like buffoon (mostly the English squad: Maguire, Shaw, Rashford, Sancho).
- Some players were just taking sweet time to end their contracts (Pogba, Lingard, Cavani).

I mean, I have doubt any manager could do significantly better than him. Perhaps if we signed interim with similar football style, the results might be a bit better.

The players available dictate the style not the other way round. As you say Ralf knew he wasn't here long term so he should have ultilized the players in formations/positions they were used to instead of trying to change everything.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I also reckon he regrets taking the job.

He had to get out of Russia some how. might as well take a 8 month contract here.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Ralf didn't manage the team very well but to me it appeared as though he tried his best and his ideas / understanding of the problems were strong. It couldn't have been easy walking into our dressing room as a temp manager with a disinterested dressing room led by the whiny one.

 

[stevoc]

Let’s see how Ole did with the exact same squad.

17 games - 7 defeats, 3 draws, 7 wins. (ppg. 1.411)

Ralf:

29 games - 8 defeats, 10 draws, 11 wins (ppg. 1.59)

Safe to say Ole did worse with exactly the same squad. Ralf was wank, but had to scrape the barrel of shit coaches from around the World when Carrick & McKenna bounced, had no pre-season, none of his own players, and was clearly undermined and ridiculed by Ronaldo and co.

No he didn't

2 points, first I was referring to Ole's entire tenure but more specifically the season before when he finished 2nd with arguably a weaker squad.

Secondly your PPG comparison conveniently leaves out cup matches. Ole had a 41% win ratio last season and it go him sacked and Ralf finished with a 37% win ratio. Both atrocious but let's not rewrite history.

had no pre-season,

The players already had a pre-season Ralf didn't need one. When you take over a team mid-season obviously you aren't going to get a pre-season, that doesn't stop many managers coming in and turning teams around and improving results. There are many valid reasons why Ralf failed so badly, some were his own fault, some were out of his control. But not having a pre-season is not a legitimate defence for him.

 

[Idxomer]

Let’s see how Ole did with the exact same squad.

17 games - 7 defeats, 3 draws, 7 wins. (ppg. 1.411)

Ralf:

29 games - 8 defeats, 10 draws, 11 wins (ppg. 1.59)

Safe to say Ole did worse with exactly the same squad. Ralf was wank, but had to scrape the barrel of shit coaches from around the World when Carrick & McKenna bounced, had no pre-season, none of his own players, and was clearly undermined and ridiculed by Ronaldo and co.

Actually, Rangnick had a worse squad. Martial left, a bunch of players kept getting injured and one forward got arrested.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Secondly your PPG comparison conveniently leaves out cup matches. Ole had a 41% win ratio last season and it go him sacked and Ralf finished with a 37% win ratio. Both atrocious but let's not rewrite history.

Did it feck, all matches were included man.

PPG was just a quick way to turn all games, including cup, into an easy to compare stat rather than some bullshit win rate that ignores him losing as many as he won.

The win ratio is hilarious when Ole had a far higher lose ratio He had a lose ratio of 41% compared to 27% for RR, so yeah “convenient” indeed.

Whichever way you spin it, Ole did worse last season with the exact same squad as Ralf +Greenwood.

 

[OrcaFat]

I think we should have gone for RR to do the “upstairs” review of club “strategy” or whatever and someone like Allardyce to manage the team until the end of the season only. Meanwhile RR to put all his energy into sorting out the administration and advising on the appointment of the new permanent coach.

International management might suit him but he was not cut out for day-to-day, pragmatic coaching. He didn’t have the energy for it but also he didn’t know how to get the team playing basic percentage football which is, I’m afraid, what was needed with those players in that situation.

 

[stevoc]

Did it feck, all matches were included man.

PPG was just a quick way to turn all games, including cup, into an easy to compare stat.

You included points per game for cup matches?

So Ralf had 29 games, 11 wins, 10 draws and 8 losses and that comes out at 1.59 ppg? Are you sure?

Do you have a breakdown of the numbers?

The win ratio is hilarious when Ole had a far higher lose ratio He had a lose ratio of 41% too.

Far higher? Far higher is maybe a bit of a stretch, but yeah obviously Ole lost a lot of games that's why he got sacked after all.

Ole 41%
Ralf 27.9%

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You included points per game for cup matches?

So Ralf had 29 games, 11 wins, 10 draws and 8 losses and that comes out at 1.59 ppg? Are you sure?

Do you have a breakdown of the numbers?


Far higher? Far higher is maybe a bit of a stretch, but yeah obviously Ole lost a lot of games that's why he got sacked after all.

Ole 41%
Ralf 27.9%

14% higher is a fecking lot man

Ole wasn’t far off losing half his games man.

Considering RR didn’t play nor win many cup games (just one) it was rather kind to Ole to include them.
You’re right those numbers were off though, Ralf was 1.48 ppg.
Whichever we spin it, Ole had Martial & Greenwood and did worse.

 

[stevoc]

14% higher is a fecking lot man

Ole wasn’t far off losing half his games man.

I did say maybe.

Considering RR didn’t win many cup games, it was rather kind to Ole to include them.

He didn't win any. Well cup games made up what a 3rd of Ole's games last season, would be harsh not to include them in any comparison.

Let's get back to those ppg numbers though, are you sure they're correct for Ralf?

Ralf
P29
W11
D10
L8

How did you come up with 1.59 ppg?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I did say maybe.



He didn't win any. Well cup games made up what a 3rd of Ole's games last season, would be harsh not to include them in any comparison.

Let's get back to those ppg numbers though, are you sure they're correct for Ralf?

Ralf
P29
W11
D10
L8

How did you come up with 1.59 ppg?

He won 1 actually so got a round further in FA Cup than Ole managed in League Cup, and see above.

 

[Zen86]

We should also mention he had a worse squad, cause… Greenwood.

The bounce actually came from sacking Ole. We’d lost 7 in 12 up until Watford, then lost just once in 12, winning 8.

We didn’t really hit a shitshow again as you remember until after we went out of the Champions League. At that point the players completely stopped giving a shit.

From losing 7 in 12, we actually lost just 2 games (v. Wolves home & Man City away) until we went to Madrid, that Atletico defeat was our 3rd in 23 games. After that though, the shitshow began as our knobhead players threw in the towel on the interim manager and his coaches as they felt that had zero to play for, they then lost 5 in 9 the spineless feckwits.

Well, there was a bounce when Carrick took over, it certainly didn’t carry over to Ralf beyond the first 45 minutes of his tenure.

And does Ralf have no responsibility in the players “throwing in the towel”? Last season under Ole was terrible, last season under Ralf was terrible. You’re bizarrely keen to absolve the latter of any blame though. He was a bad hire in every way possible.

 

[The Mitcher]

You’re rewriting history. There is a reason no one wanted him as a permanent manager. They wanted him as a 6 month temporary manager to identify ways to improve and then move to a DoF role.

I’m sure everyone expected to have more of an impact than he had. Losing one of the best young strikers in the world didn’t help though.

No I'm not, go read the posts on the announcement thread.

 

[stevoc]

He won 1 actually so got a round further in FA Cup than Ole managed in League Cup, and see above.

Right you are, I stand corrected.

Getting back to those ppg numbers though. Maybe I'm bring a bit thick but isn't Ralf's ppg for all games if we're including cup games for some reason. Closer to 1.48 as opposed to the 1.59 you listed.

Could be wrong though and I don't mind being proven so. So it is 1.48 or 1.59?

 

[Tigersam]

Ralf didn't manage the team very well but to me it appeared as though he tried his best and his ideas / understanding of the problems were strong. It couldn't have been easy walking into our dressing room as a temp manager with a disinterested dressing room led by the whiny one.

I totally agree. Plus, it has to be said he identified getting rid of Ronaldo as a priority and look what's happened this week because the club ignored him. This Ronaldo/Piers Morgan thing will dominate the airways all week and then rumble on for a month (every time Portugal play it will be dragged up again). How much time has ETH had to waste on this issue and the legal people and the board etc. time which could be spent more productively, moving things forward.

Ralf Rangnick gets unfair criticism, because he was pretty spot on with most things and probably would have been a decent DoF if the players hadn't downed tools to such an extent that he had to go, because his stats were so poor towards the end and top-4 wasn't achieved.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

And does Ralf have no responsibility in the players “throwing in the towel”? Last season under Ole was terrible, last season under Ralf was terrible. You’re bizarrely keen to absolve the latter of any blame though. He was a bad hire in every way possible.

What argument are you making man?

Ralf was utter shite, but by every metric, a little less shite with the same squad than Ole.

I have no idea what you’re arguing here.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Right you are, I stand corrected.

Getting back to those ppg numbers though. Maybe I'm bring a bit thick but isn't Ralf's ppg for all games if we're including cup games for some reason. Closer to 1.48 as opposed to the 1.59 you listed.

Could be wrong though and I don't mind being proven so. So it is 1.48 or 1.59?

Why didn’t you see above? I posted the corrected numbers.

 

[stevoc]

Why didn’t you see above? I posted the corrected numbers.

Ah fair enough mate my bad I missed that sorry.

So Ralf had 0.07 higher ppg (including cup games) with a worse win ratio.

So I mean we can’t really proclaim that he did better, win ratio is the one managers have been judged on for as long as I can remember.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Ah fair enough mate my bad I missed that sorry.

So Ralf had 0.07 higher ppg (including cup games) with a worse win ratio.

So I mean we can’t really proclaim that he did better, win ratio is the one managers have been judged on for as long as I can remember.

If a manager wins 20 games, and loses 18, drawing 0. Has he done better than a manager who wins 16, draws 16 and loses 6?

Like hell he has.

Ralf would have ended a season with more points and higher up the table, losing less games. In fact, in the league alone he trounced Ole:

Ole in PL 2021-22: 1.3 ppg
Ralf in PL 2021-22: 1.54 ppg

Long story short. Ralf did better than Ole with exact same squad, both did utter shite.
Only one of them gets my sympathy somewhat because the other had his own players, his own staff and had years to coach his team.

 

[Zen86]

What argument are you making man?

Ralf was utter shite, but by every metric, a little less shite with the same squad than Ole.

I have no idea what you’re arguing here.

It's just amusing how intrinsically linked RR and Ole are in this thread. Basically:

"Ralf was a shit manager"

"Yeah but Ole..."

 

[stevoc]

If a manager wins 20 games, and loses 18, drawing 0. Has he done better than a manager who wins 16, draws 16 and loses 6?

Like hell he has.

Bit of an extremely unlikely scenario there mate. But yes genwrally win ratio is the better barometer to judge a managers success.

Ralf would have ended a season with more points and higher up the table, losing less games. In fact, in the league alone he trounced Ole:

Ole in PL 2021-22: 1.3 ppg
Ralf in PL 2021-22: 1.54 ppg

Long story short. Ralf did better than Ole with exact same squad, both did utter shite.
Only one of them gets my sympathy somewhat because the other had his own players, his own staff and had years to coach his team.

He didn't though if all we're basing it on is 0.07 ppg. And yes both were utter shite last season, and yes I'll freely admit this is a bit of a silly argument.

 

[Raoul]

What argument are you making man?

Ralf was utter shite, but by every metric, a little less shite with the same squad than Ole.

I have no idea what you’re arguing here.

Ralf invented Rock and Roll shite football

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

It's just amusing how intrinsically linked RR and Ole are in this thread. Basically:

"Ralf was a shit manager"

"Yeah but Ole..."

It started the exact opposite if you cared to bother looking

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He didn't though if all we're basing it on is 0.07 ppg. And yes both were utter shite last season, and yes I'll freely admit this is a bit of a silly argument.

Well he did though, cause he lost Greenwood (& Martial) yet still did 0.07 better in all comps and 0.24 ppg better in the league.
As I say, we can’t spin it to say “he should’ve done better because Ole did with the same squad” when the evidence proves that to be bollocks. Both were shite with the same squad.

 

[Ali Dia]

That's rewriting history. When he was announced we had fanboys come out of the woodwork saying we just hired the father of gegenpressing, that he'll make us a modern team with modern cosching, and was far above the likes of Ole, posting some dumb lecture he fid.

Within a month it was clear he was a fraud and then the delusion kicked in, and he successfully turned most of the fanbase against a fully demoralised and weakened side that needed good leadership and support. He provided neither.

What ETH has done with most of the same players these idiot fans and Rangnick said was impossible. He's provided leadership, support, discipline and something to fight for.

I think this is really unfair. RR was only ever going to be a short term hire. No say in transfers. Couldn’t get top class staff in for a short term gig. Found himself in a horrible situation post greeenwood. Wanted to make a lazy team run and called them out on their lack of effort because he had nothing to lose and lost the dressing room like every other manager who tried it with that same mix of players. He was right about everything. We just needed to fully hit bottom and shake up the squad and organisation in a major way which is finally starting to happen now.

 

[acnumber9]

We should also mention he had a worse squad, cause… Greenwood.

The bounce actually came from sacking Ole. We’d lost 7 in 12 up until Watford, then lost just once in 12, winning 8.

We didn’t really hit a shitshow again as you remember until after we went out of the Champions League. At that point the players completely stopped giving a shit.

From losing 7 in 12, we actually lost just 2 games (v. Wolves home & Man City away) until we went to Madrid, that Atletico defeat was our 3rd in 23 games. After that though, the shitshow began as our knobhead players threw in the towel on the interim manager and his coaches as they felt that had zero to play for, they then lost 5 in 9 the spineless feckwits.

While what you say may be factually true it lacks context. We’d played every one of Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City before Rangnick took over. We went unbeaten in a run of incredibly easy fixtures. It was after Atletico that we started playing the top teams again and our respectable draws against the likes of Southampton, Burnley and Aston Villa turned into thumpings by the top teams as was entirely predictable.

None of that means Ole shouldn’t have been sacked. That should’ve happened after the Europa League final. But Rangnick was really shit.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Why has this been bumped? He was terrible.

Oh, and him being as terrible or more terrible or less terrible (who cares?) than Ole doesn't mean Ole wasn't also terrible. The two aren't mutually exclusive. They both sucked balls, I'm glad neither are here anymore.

 

[Zen86]

It started the exact opposite if you cared to bother looking

Dunno, all I can see is 10 or so posts from you arguing 0.1 PPG between the two.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

While what you say may be factually true it lacks context. We’d played every one of Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea and Man City before Rangnick took over. We went unbeaten in a run of incredibly easy fixtures. It was after Atletico that we started playing the top teams again and our respectable draws against the likes of Southampton, Burnley and Aston Villa turned into thumping by the top teams as was entirely predictable.

None of that means Ole shouldn’t have been sacked. That should’ve happened after the Europa League final. But Rangnick was really shit.

feck me, Ole got twatted by Watford and Leicester, beaten by West Ham, Villa & Young Boys in that time. Let’s not make out he was just losing the tough ones

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Dunno, all I can see is 10 or so posts from you arguing 0.1 PPG between the two.

Aye, cause an argument was made that Ralf was especially shitter than shit because Ole did better with the same squad. My 10 posts have been calling that claim bollocks, which it is by every metric.

Both were shite with the same squad, one had his own staff, players and coaching in place before the season, and Greenwood/Martial. So I personally consider that bloke to have been worse.

I’ll always have issues with people trying to spin a positive light on Ole, he was the worst decision this club have made post Fergie.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

None of that means Ole shouldn’t have been sacked. That should’ve happened after the Europa League final.

Ole never should've been given a permanent contract, let's get that right.

If Woodward had been a half decent de facto "DOF" he would've done exactly what he claimed at the time: which was to assess the situation (with Ole as an interim) and then hire a permanent replacement at the end of the season.

That never happened - because Woodward is a feckin' idiot who thought it was a brilliant idea to hire Ole permanently on the basis of a new manager bounce and the fan sentiment that went along with it.

Ole was never the right man for the job - period. That doesn't mean that some of the assessments of his tenure aren't ridiculously unfair. If Ole had been as clueless as some people claim, we wouldn't have seen the results we actually saw.

Alternatively, some people's assessment of Ole is extremely incongruous with the same people's assessment of our squad (the quality of individual players) during his tenure.

 

[acnumber9]

feck me, Ole got twatted by Watford and Leicester, beaten by West Ham, Villa & Young Boys in that time. Let’s not make out he was just losing the tough ones

Where did I do that? You can’t just make up arguments to laugh at you lunatic. He deserved to be sacked. I was just illustrating that unbeaten run was due to playing some of the easiest fixtures imaginable including but not limited to three games against two of the teams relegated.

That doesn’t mean Rangnick was any better because you’re ignoring that Solskjaer managed United for longer than a 12 game spell. They were both shite and we’re better off without both of them.

 

[acnumber9]

Ole never should've been given a permanent contract, let's get that right.

I would tend to agree but there would’ve been uproar amongst our fan base if he hadn’t been given the job after that run. The biggest mistake was probably the time because if the decision had been made at the end of the season he may have got away with it.