Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

[Gandalf]

Unfortunately we can't just forget about Ole as it was him that put the squad together, pampered to the players whims and basically made them gutless as they never had to justify their actual performances which had its obvious knock on effect.

Just look at the mess RR inherited. In house fighting, Ronaldo/Maguire. The cnut who won't be named, Martial wanting away, Cavani turning up when he wanted. Players like Rashford downing tools, Pogba and Lingard stinking the place up. McFred. The players deciding they didn't like hard work after 40 minutes against Palace. All this happened under Oles watch ( less the game against Palace) and I have serious doubts that if ETH had of come in instead of RR as interim he would of faired any better.

We all agree ETH is a much better manager than RR but it's still taken him the same time that RR had to make us look like we're going in the right direction and that's after having a preseason, spending 200+m and not having to deal with the distractions such as Pogba and Lingard. I'd go as far as to say that not even the worlds best manager in the present moment Pep would of faired any better because what he would of inherited was rotten to the core which is why RR shouldn't be judged as harshly as he is making the comparisons Ole v RR pointless.

We kind of can forget about Ole because a large part of your premise is that Ole built that squad and it was fairly obvious that most of the deals done on his watch were down to Woodward and Judge. I don't think Ole was ever really empowered by the non footballing side of the club to make the big decisions and that contributed to the players doing whatever they wanted.

Early evidence is that Arnold is cut from different cloth and is backing ETH all the way, a refreshing change but we will see how long it lasts.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

We can just forget about Ole in the RR thread when we are talking about RR. So let’s do that. There must be an Ole thread somewhere if you need it.

It doesn’t matter what he did or didn’t get, what he came into, or what he used to do when he was young (not much, by the way). The reality is that from about three weeks into the job he looked absolutely knackered and after that did very little but shrug or complain. He didn’t really want the job and it was obvious he wasn’t up to it. Many of us put up with it because we thought the consultancy was the main event but that turned out not to be true so he didn’t even have that going for him.

It is plain nutty to debate what he might have done if “this” or “that”. His job was to do as well as possible with what he had until the end of the season. I don’t know anyone who thought he came up to scratch.

Once again, the idea that he would have been good (or even somewhat better) if he had several years and half a billion quid is firstly pretty pointless to contemplate but also unlikely when you look at his complete lack of energy and imagination.

Ole last won a trophy, in 2012. In an absolute dog turd league.
Ralf won the German Cup in 2011.

Both have been runners up in a top league.

Not sure why it’s more “likely” Ole would spend better and do better than this guy, considering he spent over 300m, left us with a dog shit squad and managed 66 points, 66 points and 74 points before his rebuild came crashing down like a house of cards.

Once again, seems a case of people desperately wanting to give Ole credit, he deserves none, was a truly terrible permanent manager who set us back massively as a club.

 

[OrcaFat]

Ole last won a trophy, in 2012. In an absolute dog turd league.
Ralf won the German Cup in 2011.

Both have been runners up in a top league.

Not sure why it’s more “likely” Ole would spend better and do better than this guy, considering he spent over 300m, left us with a dog shit squad and managed 66 points, 66 points and 74 points before his rebuild came crashing down like a house of cards.

What are you on about?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

What are you on about?

Ole being fecking terrible, and that most managers would at least match his United “achievements” if given time and 300m quid.

You’re trying to use RR’s interim spell to say it’s unlikely he’d have done better than Ole with a much time and 300 quid. Well I’d say it’d be harder to do worse and I’m imagining if Ole could have taken Leipzig to 3rd in 2018-19 with their spending… judging by his Cardiff and United spells, I’m gonna say “very unlikely”.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Ole managed to get 2nd and 3rd in the best league in world football despite most people on this forum thinking he's a conference level coach. It doesn't add up guys. That wouldn't be possible. He clearly had some good qualities or those seasons would have been disastrous.

Ole made mistakes though of course and some big ones eventually rightly cost him his job....but he wasnt any worse than any of the other coaches that followed Fergie in all truth. People forget we regularly beat City under Ole. Which other Utd coach has managed that feat? None of them. Beat PSG twice in Paris. Again unthinkable right now given we are struggling to beat Omonia Nicosia.

The recruitment was his major undoing. Maguire AWB n Sancho have just not worked out. Dan James we can forgive as we sold for a profit. Bruno I still maintain was a good signing.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Ole managed to get 2nd and 3rd in the best league in world football despite most people on this forum thinking he's a conference level coach. It doesn't add up guys. That wouldn't be possible. He clearly had some good qualities or those seasons would have been disastrous.

Avram Grant was a slip away from a CL trophy and managed to get 2nd in the Prem. Raneiri’s spent an entire career as a journeyman jumping from club to club, getting constantly fired, yet he finished 1st.
Finishing in those positions in the Prem isn’t soley for good managers.

Ole wasn’t conference level mind, that’s daft. He’s a decent man manager, nothing more.

The 3rd place finish is deceiving though, it was such a low points total it was only enough for 5th and 6th the seasons either side of it.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

Our first two games of this season, even under a quality modern new manager show us just what a clusterfeck Ole left behind. Thankfully it panicked the club into spending more, cause whenever we start with a side that resembles anything like an Ole 11, we look absolutely horrendous. Once we add Martinez, Antony, Casemiro, Eriksen, even Garnacho… you see an improvement that is staggering in comparison.

I don't think it's a coincidence that those on here calling out RR the loudest where staunch Ole up until the end. Or just before it became impossible for him to stay. They don't seem capable of accepting the fact that the squad Ole put together was the main reason that RR failed the way he did and not just because, "he's shite."
No one is saying that RR is a good manager but to blatantly blame him for the shitshow he Inherited does take a bit to wrap my head around. I stick by my previous post that I don't think Pep or ETH would of done any better as interim which is why its surprising for me the hatred RR seems to bring out in people becuase he couldn't get the gutless cnuts to run more than 40 minutes. But no. Nothing to do with Ole and the shitshow he left behind. All on Ralf this one.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I don't think it's a coincidence that those on here calling out RR the loudest where staunch Ole up until the end. Or just before it became impossible for him to stay. They don't seem capable of accepting the fact that the squad Ole put together was the main reason that RR failed the way he did and not just because, "he's shite."
No one is saying that RR is a good manager but to blatantly blame him for the shitshow he Inherited does take a bit to wrap my head around. I stick by my previous post that I don't think Pep or ETH would of done any better as interim which is why its surprising for me the hatred RR seems to bring out in people becuase he couldn't get the gutless cnuts to run more than 40 minutes. But no. Nothing to do with Ole and the shitshow he left behind. All on Ralf this one.

I agree that ETH as interim would’ve equally been a disaster, these players were never listening to a part time manager telling them to press and run after having it so “free” with Ole.

Was on the club really that, bringing in someone who’ll try to impose a strict style as interim with no real coaches was idiotic in hindsight.

And no doubt those who rated Ole the most, bLame RR to a frankly baffling degree. Those who always thought Ole was utter wank mind, are a little more sympathetic to what was inherited.

 

[OrcaFat]

Ole being fecking terrible, and that most managers would at least match his United “achievements” if given time and 300m quid.

I think I said before that I don’t disagree with you that many managers could match what Ole did; yeah, surely has to be true.

I just don’t think RR is one of them but let’s not think of it as matching Ole but think of it as getting 2nd or 3rd in the league (regardless of any qualifying remarks you want to make about how Ole, by chance, managed to achieve that - let’s assume it was blind luck).

I’m just talking about RR now and saying (as we all know) he wasn’t up to the job he took on. I don’t think time and money would have improved it much because he just doesn’t have it (even if he once did, which is debatable). These points stand without any need to reference what came before or after him.

I’m not so uncharitable as to suggest it was ever going to be easy for him but I think, for example, Allardyce would have taken the job with a bit more enthusiasm and got us top 4. For all the difference that would have made.

I don’t want to bash RR, he could have contributed a lot (if the board would have listened to him); he was just given the wrong job.

 

[Vidic178]

Ole wasn't a top level manager, and would never have won United a Prem, but the team most definitely played worse after Rangnick took over. Had Ole stayed it most likely would've been a 65-70 point season.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I think I said before that I don’t disagree with you that many managers could match what Ole did; yeah, surely has to be true.

I just don’t think RR is one of them but let’s not think of it as matching Ole but think of it as getting 2nd or 3rd in the league (regardless of any qualifying remarks you want to make about how Ole, by chance, managed to achieve that - let’s assume it was blind luck).

I’m just talking about RR now and saying (as we all know) he wasn’t up to the job he took on. I don’t think time and money would have improved it much because he just doesn’t have it (even if he once did, which is debatable). These points stand without any need to reference what came before or after him.

I’m not so uncharitable as to suggest it was ever going to be easy for him but I think, for example, Allardyce would have taken the job with a bit more enthusiasm and got us top 4. For all the difference that would have made.

I don’t want to bash RR, he could have contributed a lot (if the board would have listened to him); he was just given the wrong job.

I agree Big Sam would likely have done better as an interim, but I reckon big Sam would’ve done better than ETH as an interim also.
Anyone coming in with bottom of the barrel coaches on an interim deal trying to tell Ronaldo and co to press and work was onto a hiding to nothing. Big Sam would’ve taken a more pragmatic approach.

To claim a guy who finished 3rd in the Bundesliga with Leipzig in 2019 couldn’t have done what Ole did (consistently crap points totals, crap recruiting, no trophies and a massive meltdown) with similar time and money just two years after that Bundesliga season is a bit odd to me.

He’s had a better coaching career so far than Ole that’s sure and won bigger pots, and now he’s instantly back in management whereas Ole… I can’t imagine who’d be interested, even Molde did much better once he left. Ole’s last title with them was in 2013, he won no titles in the 3 seasons after his return, and have since won 2 in the following 4.

RR still had a reputation of coaching teams to play a certain way and that got him the Austria job, what is Ole’s rep? He’s a nice guy, a nice man manager, has no real style of play, isn’t a winner. How do you sell that No owners or FA’s are fooled that his 2nd with United, miles behind the winners on a low total after spending 300m, was an impressive achievement, just as no-one as fooled when Avram Grant came second (well maybe the West Ham numpties got conned).

 

[Gazza]

@Regulus Arcturus Black you have commendable patience (and I don't know how you don't get dizzy with how often posters in this thread move the goalposts around) and I agree with your points

 

[OrcaFat]

I agree Big Sam would likely have done better as an interim, but I reckon big Sam would’ve done better than ETH as an interim also.
Anyone coming in with bottom of the barrel coaches on an interim deal trying to tell Ronaldo and co to press and work was onto a hiding to nothing. Big Sam would’ve taken a more pragmatic approach.

To claim a guy who finished 3rd in the Bundesliga with Leipzig in 2019 couldn’t have done what Ole did (consistently crap points totals, crap recruiting, no trophies and a massive meltdown) with similar time and money just two years after that Bundesliga season is a bit odd to me.

He’s had a better coaching career so far than Ole that’s sure and won bigger pots, and now he’s instantly back in management where Ole… I can’t imagine who’d be interested, even Molde did much better once he left.

Yeah, like I said, it’s not about doing better than Ole, it’s whether the current version of RR could finish in the top four. We’ll never know but I just don’t think so based on his performance last season. Not just the results but his whole approach and demeanour were consistent with a guy past his peak and more suited to consultancy or, say, international management.

It’s quite alright to say Ole is even worse but also irrelevant to this particular point.

 

[Foxbatt]

I don't think it's a coincidence that those on here calling out RR the loudest where staunch Ole up until the end. Or just before it became impossible for him to stay. They don't seem capable of accepting the fact that the squad Ole put together was the main reason that RR failed the way he did and not just because, "he's shite."
No one is saying that RR is a good manager but to blatantly blame him for the shitshow he Inherited does take a bit to wrap my head around. I stick by my previous post that I don't think Pep or ETH would of done any better as interim which is why its surprising for me the hatred RR seems to bring out in people becuase he couldn't get the gutless cnuts to run more than 40 minutes. But no. Nothing to do with Ole and the shitshow he left behind. All on Ralf this one.

You guys don't understand. It's nothing personal with RR. It's only because he replaced their man Ole. It could have been any manager and it would be the same. If it was fat Sam they would have found another excuse to bash him. RR only came because most good managers refused to come for 6 months only. We know that he is a decent manager. Certainly a better coach than Ole. He had to deal with a shit show.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Not just the results but his whole approach and demeanour were consistent with a guy past his peak and more suited to consultancy or, say, international management.

Nar, his whole demeanour was clearly a guy who’s short term contract was running out and who had absolutely no power to recruit new players to work his system. The best he could do was use previously unused players like Dalot and Elanga that he could make listen to him. He couldn’t ship anyone out, his hands were tied.
And yes, after Liverpool away he was absolutely defeated. And what do you expect? He still had to try and fight for 4th, but was off in 6 weeks so had zero power over the players who were just waiting for him to feck off.

Not sure how you can remotely compare that to the approach and demeanour of a coach who, like ETH this summer for example, or after Brentford, can ring the fecking alarm bells to upstairs and instantly get two Brazilian internationals for over 150m that will follow his instructions.

How is being an interim remotely the same man?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

@Regulus Arcturus Black you have commendable patience (and I don't know how you don't get dizzy with how often posters in this thread move the goalposts around) and I agree with your points

Ha ha, cheers pal.

 

[OrcaFat]

Nar, he whole demeanour was clearly a guy who’s short term contract was running out and who had absolutely no power to recruit new players to work his system.
Not sure how you can remotely compare that to the approach and demeanour of a coach who, like ETH this summer for example, or after Brentford, can ring the fecking alarm bells to upstairs and instantly get two Brazilian internationals for over 150m that will follow his instructions.

How is being an interim remotely the same man?

Yeah, maybe you have a point. He didn’t deal with it well but possibly we didn’t see the best of what he has left to give. If he takes another top club job, we’ll find out. I don’t think he will take such a job, even if offered it, I don’t think he can be bothered.

I could be wrong. But he gave up on himself and on us - maybe that’s where I’m coming from.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Yeah, maybe you have a point. He didn’t deal with it well but possibly we didn’t see the best of what he has left to give. If he takes another top club job, we’ll find out. I don’t think he will take such a job, even if offered it, I don’t think he can be bothered.

I could be wrong. But he gave up on himself and on us - maybe that’s where I’m coming from.

Absolutely, I did too after Liverpool didn’t watch any game all season.

I think it was the point he realised “yeah feck, these cnuts are never gonna get me the job for another season, and they aren’t gonna listen to a word I say, I’m fecking gone in 6 weeks, feck em”.

 

[OrcaFat]

Absolutely, I did too after Liverpool didn’t watch any game all season.

I think it was the point he realised “yeah feck, these cnuts are never gonna get me the job for another season, and they aren’t gonna listen to a word I say, I’m fecking gone in 6 weeks, feck em”.

Ha, yeah. Can’t blame him really.

 

[stevoc]

Avram Grant was a slip away from a CL trophy and managed to get 2nd in the Prem. Raneiri’s spent an entire career as a journeyman jumping from club to club, getting constantly fired, yet he finished 1st.
Finishing in those positions in the Prem isn’t soley for good managers.

Ole wasn’t conference level mind, that’s daft. He’s a decent man manager, nothing more.

The 3rd place finish is deceiving though, it was such a low points total it was only enough for 5th and 6th the seasons either side of it.

Never understood this logic, with regard to any team/manager not specifically Ole. It wasn't the season either side of it though, in that season we had the 3rd most points out of all teams after playing 38 games home and away so deserved to finish 3rd.

We won the league with 75 points in 1997, the season before and after that would have only been enough to finish 3rd. So was that season deceiving also and we shouldn't rate that title win as it was underserved?

Comparing points totals across seasons is largely useless.

 

[Foxbatt]

The issue is that Ole had more than 6 months to manage the club. Ralf had half a season and everyone knew that he was going after that.
Martial sent on loan and after that Greenwood got suspended and he never got any replacement. Not even a journeyman. Pogba and Lingard, Mata and Matic coming to the end of their contracts and the club not interested in spending any money until the new manager came in the summer. Ralf was not going to win his battle no matter what.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Comparing points totals across seasons is largely useless.

It's actually not. When you consistently get a low point total, it shows that you are just not a good trajectory. Or you think after averageing less than 2 ppg for 3 seasons, we would suddenly start matching City or Pool 2.5 ppg to compete for the league. Winning, like everything else, is a habit, and we choked and stuttered whenever real pressure was on, when there was the remotest possibility that we could've achieved sth under OGS.

 

[Mr PG]

We kind of can forget about Ole because a large part of your premise is that Ole built that squad and it was fairly obvious that most of the deals done on his watch were down to Woodward and Judge. I don't think Ole was ever really empowered by the non footballing side of the club to make the big decisions and that contributed to the players doing whatever they wanted.

Early evidence is that Arnold is cut from different cloth and is backing ETH all the way, a refreshing change but we will see how long it lasts.

We cannot excuse Ole from blame after 3 years. He let McKenna coach the team and there's no way the club bought Maguire, AWB, VDB and Varane (poor injury history)without his major input.

 

[Mr PG]

The issue is that Ole had more than 6 months to manage the club. Ralf had half a season and everyone knew that he was going after that.
Martial sent on loan and after that Greenwood got suspended and he never got any replacement. Not even a journeyman. Pogba and Lingard, Mata and Matic coming to the end of their contracts and the club not interested in spending any money until the new manager came in the summer. Ralf was not going to win his battle no matter what.

I keep telling people that. I rate ETH very highly but if you give him the same deal Ragnick had he won't do much better. Rashford had a mental issue (probably disinterested after relentless abuse from fans), No Martial, a dis-respected Cavani who seemingly totally lost interest . (I love Latin american players as they're very loyal and committed but if you disrespect them they will totally down tools)

 

[bringbackbebe]

We cannot excuse Ole from blame after 3 years. He let McKenna coach the team and there's no way the club bought Maguire, AWB, VDB and Varane (poor injury history)without his major input.

What's McKenna got to do with this? He was brought in from Spurs where he was highly rated, and then elevated to first team by Jose. Did a good job with the U-18s & seems to be doing a good job at Ipswich. Our undoing is not the result of one assistant coach but years of poor decisions. Misplaced & misguided hatred going after members of the staff we barely know about tbh.

 

[Foxbatt]

I keep telling people that. I rate ETH very highly but if you give him the same deal Rangnick had he won't do much better. Rashford had a mental issue (probably disinterested after relentless abuse from fans), No Martial, a dis-respected Cavani who seemingly totally lost interest . (I love Latin american players as they're very loyal and committed but if you disrespect them they will totally down tools)

Yes but they won't accept it. I don't think it's got anything to do personally with Ralf. It seems it's the same people who were adamant Ole in before Ralf was appointed. It could have been Johan Cruijff, Arigo Sacchi, and Michaels combined but they would be the same for them.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Never understood this logic, with regard to any team/manager not specifically Ole. It wasn't the season either side of it though, in that season we had the 3rd most points out of all teams after playing 38 games home and away so deserved to finish 3rd.

We won the league with 75 points in 1997, the season before and after that would have only been enough to finish 3rd. So was that season deceiving also and we shouldn't rate that title win as it was underserved?

Comparing points totals across seasons is largely useless.

It’s not useless at all. No-one is taking that 3rd place away from him.
But some 3rd or 2nd place finishes are simply better/more impressive/more indicative of progress than others.
Unless you think Ole’s 2nd spot with 74 points was more impressive than Klopp’s 97 points second place in 2018?
Sometimes a season is nice to you, but it was bloody obvious that we were not holding on to second or threatening 1st, and were as likely to threaten 5th the following year.

We’ve failed to make 66 points just twice since the Prem began, once in the Moyes season (64 points) and last season, despite how shite we’ve been since SAF left. Nothing about that total is remotely impressive or an “achievement others would struggle to match”.

 

[fallengt]

Half of the team stopped giving a feck and were on the way out. I don't know what people expected.
Sure RR should've done better but it was an impossible job from the beginning. It highlighted United's mismanagement for years more than RR's incompetence.

It completely different when Ole took over. Back then it was just Mourinho and Pogba throwing hissy fits.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

The issue is that Ole had more than 6 months to manage the club. Ralf had half a season and everyone knew that he was going after that.
Martial sent on loan and after that Greenwood got suspended and he never got any replacement. Not even a journeyman. Pogba and Lingard, Mata and Matic coming to the end of their contracts and the club not interested in spending any money until the new manager came in the summer. Ralf was not going to win his battle no matter what.

Other than the Greenwood suspension, the broad strokes of this were known when he was appointed. And yet the majority opinion here was not "he's fecked and won't achieve anything."

Rangnick wasn't terrible at United. It's just too obvious that people let their biases about what constitutes a good manager affect their view of the situation.

 

[VP89]

Parking Ralfs United tenure aside, its hilarious how Ronaldo says he's not a coach but Ole was.

Ole achieved less in his managerial career and capitulated, he's now managing an U14s side whereas Ralf is leading Austria in the World Cup.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Ralf is leading Austria in the World Cup.

Don’t think Austria made it.

 

[VP89]

Don’t think Austria made it.

my bad, but the gulf still stands

 

[phelans shorts]

Other than the Greenwood suspension, the broad strokes of this were known when he was appointed. And yet the majority opinion here was not "he's fecked and won't achieve anything."

Rangnick wasn't terrible at United. It's just too obvious that people let their biases about what constitutes a good manager affect their view of the situation.

I mean, he was.

He came here with fanfare of being the man to turn us around and make us proactive instead of reactive, instead he threw his toys out of the pram constantly, took digs at everyone around him to save his own face and got horrific results. Statistically the worst manager we’ve ever had is it? He was terrible, and the club were right to rip up his consultancy role because the results were awful, the football worse, and his man management made absolutely no sense to the point where it was impossible for him to hold any kind of authority going forward.

 

[stevoc]

It's actually not. When you consistently get a low point total, it shows that you are just not a good trajectory. Or you think after averageing less than 2 ppg for 3 seasons, we would suddenly start matching City or Pool 2.5 ppg to compete for the league. Winning, like everything else, is a habit, and we choked and stuttered whenever real pressure was on, when there was the remotest possibility that we could've achieved sth under OGS.

It’s not useless at all. No-one is taking that 3rd place away from him.
But some 3rd or 2nd place finishes are simply better/more impressive/more indicative of progress than others.
Unless you think Ole’s 2nd spot with 74 points was more impressive than Klopp’s 97 points second place in 2018?
Sometimes a season is nice to you, but it was bloody obvious that we were not holding on to second or threatening 1st, and were as likely to threaten 5th the following year.

We’ve failed to make 66 points just twice since the Prem began, once in the Moyes season (64 points) and last season, despite how shite we’ve been since SAF left. Nothing about that total is remotely impressive or an “achievement others would struggle to match”.

It actually is when looking at the season in isolation and determining whether or not a team deserved to finish where they did. The league system is 20 teams playing each other home and away over 38 games. You get 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw and 0 for a loss. Outside of some variables 99% of the time you finish where you deserve to finish based on the amount of points you have accumulated, so it can hardly be deceiving. Where you finished and how many points you collected the season before or after is irrelevant to that.

74 points or 97 points it's irrelevant, it amounted to the exact same thing a 2nd place finish and nothing to show for it. As I said comparing points totals across seasons is largely useless, even more so when you do it with different teams.

 

[romufc]

It’s not useless at all. No-one is taking that 3rd place away from him.
But some 3rd or 2nd place finishes are simply better/more impressive/more indicative of progress than others.
Unless you think Ole’s 2nd spot with 74 points was more impressive than Klopp’s 97 points second place in 2018?
Sometimes a season is nice to you, but it was bloody obvious that we were not holding on to second or threatening 1st, and were as likely to threaten 5th the following year.

We’ve failed to make 66 points just twice since the Prem began, once in the Moyes season (64 points) and last season, despite how shite we’ve been since SAF left. Nothing about that total is remotely impressive or an “achievement others would struggle to match”.

In your eyes, do most of our league titles mean nothing to you? Cause Klopp's Liverpool finished 2nd with more points than most of Fergie's titles?

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

It actually is when looking at the season in isolation and determining whether or not a team deserved to finish where they did. The league system is 20 teams playing each other home and away over 38 games. You get 3 points for a win, 1 for a draw and 0 for a loss. Outside of some variables 99% of the time you finish where you deserve to finish based on the amount of points you have accumulated, so it can hardly be deceiving. Where you finished and how many points you collected the season before or after is irrelevant to that.

74 points or 97 points it's irrelevant, it amounted to the exact same thing a 2nd place finish and nothing to show for it. As I said comparing points totals across seasons is largely useless, even more so when you do it with different teams.

You keep on banging about deserving when no one here implied that we didn’t deserve to finish where we did because of the low point totals. The issue here is that those low point totals all point to a shabby job for a manager with 3.5 years and 300 millions to shape his squad. We are not even comparing among different seasons, when your main competitors regularly get 95+ points and even at their weakest, comfortably finished 10+ pts ahead of your best after a pretty disastrous start to the season. Does take a lot of the shine out of those finishes, is it not? And let’s not even go near the cup records, especially the European one.

 

[OrcaFat]

You keep on banging about deserving when no one here implied that we didn’t deserve to finish where we did because of the low point totals. The issue here is that those low point totals all point to a shabby job for a manager with 3.5 years and 300 millions to shape his squad. We are not even comparing among different seasons, when your main competitors regularly get 95+ points and even at their weakest, comfortably finished 10+ pts ahead of your best after a pretty disastrous start to the season. Does take a lot of the shine out of those finishes, is it not? And let’s not even go near the cup records, especially the European one.

To win the league you only need to get one more point than the team in second.

The relative quality of all the teams is bound to change every year. Sometimes the gaps between the teams is big sometimes it’s smaller. Points comparisons from season to season would have to assume that all the opposition teams are of identical quality from year to year. Of course they aren’t so what does the comparison achieve?

League position is a much better indicator than points scored.

 

[stevoc]

You keep on banging about deserving when no one here implied that we didn’t deserve to finish where we did because of the low point totals. The issue here is that those low point totals all point to a shabby job for a manager with 3.5 years and 300 millions to shape his squad. We are not even comparing among different seasons, when your main competitors regularly get 95+ points and even at their weakest, comfortably finished 10+ pts ahead of your best after a pretty disastrous start to the season. Does take a lot of the shine out of those finishes, is it not?

I'm banging on, yeah ok mate?

I'm talking about this sort of logic and comparing the points totals of teams across seasons in general. You and others seem determined to continually drag the thread back to discussing United's league finishes and points totals under Solskjaer in a thread about Ralf Rangnick.

And let’s not even go near the cup records, especially the European one.

Yeah let's not, in fact let's try to not talk about Solskjaer's tenure at United in this thread and get the thread back on topic. Sound reasonable?

 

[Robbie Boy]

Ole and Ralf were both absolutely woeful appointments. Ole clearly done far more damage, though.

 

[bringbackbebe]

Other than the Greenwood suspension, the broad strokes of this were known when he was appointed. And yet the majority opinion here was not "he's fecked and won't achieve anything."

Rangnick wasn't terrible at United. It's just too obvious that people let their biases about what constitutes a good manager affect their view of the situation.

He didn't do himself any favour by taking it out to the press. Ronaldo, understandable, but even Lingard and Henderson were getting the better of him.