Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped

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VidaRed said:
The only solution was to get rid of the players.

If there was nothing wrong with the players
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Don't remember saying the squad was fine. It obviously needed new blood with a new manager and a fair amount of departures as I've already said.

VidaRed said:
and it was solely down to ole and then rangnick being inept then why didn't ten hag not go along with the same set of players ?
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Is this a serious question? It makes no sense.

VidaRed said:
Ole tried to change the way we played, its why the players hit rock bottom because they cant play that way and ten hag knows that and that is why he signed new players without even giving a chance to the old players to prove themselves to him.
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Well Ole certainly couldn't coach them to play a more expansive possession based style, neither could Ralf (not that he tried to be fair). Let's see how Ten Hag gets on. All the older players who left were leaving anyway doubt ETH had much of a say in it.

VidaRed said:
Rangnick got no pre season, got no backing from the board and had players in open revolt and downing tools. Yeah lets blame the manager :lol:
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:lol:

Well he'd hardly get a pre-season if he took an Interim job in December and clubs very rarely let Interim managers buy players in January. It's the same old narrative spun again and again.

For the record I don't blame Rangnick entirely for the 2nd half of last season but I don't absolve him of blame either. He was the manager after all.
 
jem said:
Well at least Rangnick has a CV, in team building and coaching. What does Carrick have?
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More credit for the games he managed and basically not being shit at it. That counts for a lot, don't you think?
 
Ralf didnt perform anything expected of him but he was in the backfoot from the start. Repeating the obvious points.
*No New players in January.
*Players in last year of contract who didnt bother turning up like Pogba, Cavani, Lingard and those who are in last legs like Mata and Matic.
* 2 positions in CM had only a player each(Not considering Dubai Pogba). McFred Midfield which needed upgrade of both players in the previous summer itself.
*Loosing Greenwood, as it cost us min 12 points as the right wing was non existent for half season and all wide players can play only in left wing.
*Division in squad. Ronaldo gang Vs Macguire gang.
*Bloated squad with too many players (CD, AM & LW) who couldnt get minutes as Ole didnt trim.
*Worst coaching/scouting setup among all big clubs.
*No decent coaches ready to join an interim manager mid season.

It didnt help as well that going through the above troubles with results going down hill, Ralf to save his skin started giving interviews calling out United management, players etc for what they are, which got him sacked from any future role at the club.

ETH is lucky to start in a clean slate.
 
redsunited said:
Ralf didnt perform anything expected of him but he was in the backfoot from the start. Repeating the obvious points.
*No New players in January.
*Players in last year of contract who didnt bother turning up like Pogba, Cavani, Lingard and those who are in last legs like Mata and Matic.
* 2 positions in CM had only a player each(Not considering Dubai Pogba). McFred Midfield which needed upgrade of both players in the previous summer itself.
*Loosing Greenwood, as it cost us min 12 points as the right wing was non existent for half season and all wide players can play only in left wing.
*Division in squad. Ronaldo gang Vs Macguire gang.
*Bloated squad with too many players (CD, AM & LW) who couldnt get minutes as Ole didnt trim.
*Worst coaching/scouting setup among all big clubs.
*No decent coaches ready to join an interim manager mid season.

It didnt help as well that going through the above troubles with results going down hill, Ralf to save his skin started giving interviews calling out United management, players etc for what they are, which got him sacked from any future role at the club.

ETH is lucky to start in a clean slate.
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This is interesting in the paper today:

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...dacious-upheaval-of-manchester-united-ten-hag

Specifically:

"This was United’s first-choice starting XI from last season, based on most league starts. De Gea; Wan-Bissaka, Lindelöf, Maguire, Shaw; Fred, McTominay; Greenwood, Fernandes, Sancho; Ronaldo. Only four are still in the side. The entire defence has been replaced. Scott McTominay will make way for Casemiro soon. David de Gea will almost certainly be replaced once a suitable replacement becomes available. Which leaves only Sancho and Fernandes. “I wanted to substitute the entire team,” Ten Hag grumbled after the 4-0 collapse at Brentford. Well, he’s almost there.

This was a process that even Alex Ferguson took years rather than months to implement, seeking out not just winning talents but winning characters, players who would fight for each other, players who could play to a plan. What Ten Hag is attempting here – and this sounds like hyperbole – is one of the most audacious acts of major surgery seen at one of Europe’s top clubs in such a short space of time."

When you factor in the brave decision to bench Ronaldo, it has to be said this is some vindication of Ralf Rangnick's analysis: 10 new players needed and that Ronaldo should go. I really think RR should be given some credit because he laid the groundwork for what ETH is doing and yes, he failed in the managers seat himself, but he was put into an impossible situation including something quite unforeseen happening with one of your best young talents..... well I won't say anymore about that.
 
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city-puma said:
Why is this false statements kept appearing forever on this forum, Ole’s team only plays counter attack?!
It’s like you guys didn’t watch our games at all.
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I guess, people saying that mean, that playing counter attack is the only thing, Ole was able to implement properly. At least based on the sample we have to analyze, which might be not 100% suitable as obviously the players somewhat limit the opportunities for a manager to implement stuff. The fact that Ole's team had to play more possession oriented from a certain point onwards shouldn't be seen as proof that Ole changed things. Maybe it was more due to the fact that opponents reacted to our obvious strength and therefor were prepared. I am not saying that is the ultimate truth to end all discussions but I personally think it plausibly explains a lot of our woes. Maybe lets not necessarily just name it "counter attacking", call it defending deeper (mostly) and be as direct and vertical as possible once the ball is won. This is what suited our players and if there is something resembling a common theme in our recruiting back then, most players suited that play style.

Tom Cato said:
"The quality of this league winning squad, and the balance of ages within it, bodes well for continued success at the highest level whilst the structure of the youth set-up will ensure that the long-term future of the club remains a bright one." - Sir Alex Ferguson, May 8th 2013

He didnt leave a aging wreck without ability. He left the Premier League champions with Wayne Rooney and RVP in their absolute prime years, De Gea at age 22, Rafael, Ashley Young, Nemanja Vidic, Valencia, Carrick, Nani - ALL at the height of their playing years. Even with Scholes and Giggs at the end of their careers, the squad had a healthy average age.

That the only signings we made in the 13/14 window was Juan Mata and Marouane Fellaini really has to fall on the feet of the club, not the former manager.
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I think, your memories are tricking you there. Wasn't on the caf back then but I would be shocked if there wasn't sooo much talk about midfielders back then. Fergie went somewhat of an easy route, he didn't replace Giggs, Ferdinand and Scholes, maybe even Evra, in his often seen ruthless way, maybe because he knew, he wouldn't be able to form a new team and just went the comfortable route. And boy it paid off for him so credit where credit is due. This isn't a dig at Fergie, maybe not even he was aware what kind of an asset he was to the football department of Manchester United. With hindsight, I'd say he should have been the one forcing the club to implement some element in the hierarchy to guarantee continuity, stability - the things he provided for years and years and what really killed us after his departure.

El Jefe said:
Its honestly baffling and weird as you put it. Two wins in a row, two big signings in the last week and signs of significant change on and off the pitch yet the same people can't get away from their Ralf fixation.
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What would be the significant changes on the pitch?

Drz said:
I agree with a lot if not all that Rangnick said in public whilst managing us, though I do wish he'd have kept it for the powers that be.

For example the "open heart surgery" comment, I agree with but:
a/ it puts a group of players who aren't good enough and low in confidence even lower in confidence, so they wouldn't even perform to their average ability
b/ sends a big signal that we are going to be desperate to buy in the upcoming transfer window to anyone we'd be negotiating purchases with
c/ makes the few players worth selling even less worth it from a price perspective to potential buyers
So that message, however true, was putting the club in a position of weakness, declared and acknowledged publicly.

The comment that sticks-out though for me was that what we need to do to remedy the situation is "obvious". Well if it's obvious what use would Rangnick have in a consultancy role? He can just submit his report and move on.
I don't know if it's because of my previous job, but I have a very poor impression of consultants, I think it was a TV show that described them as "people you pay to take your watch and sell you the time", in my personal experience I have found that extremely accurate, and that "obvious" comment just made it obvious to me that his presence was redundant.
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I agree with the overall sentiment but I think your reasoning against the "open heart surgery" is a bit oversimplified. I am pretty sure, he knew that other clubs certainly won't base their interest in players or readiness to pay this or that would be connected to some of his comments. The value of a player is always difficult to assess, a Peter Crouch was worth a lot for Pulis Stoke but wouldn't be worth a dime for Tiki Taka Barcelona. Same here: we shouldn't assume that football personal in professional football are less informed about the limitations of our players than we as fans are. Plus trying to measure players only by good and bad doesn't really do you any favours these days. The question should be "how does this and that skill set fit the plan for my team".
 
redsunited said:
Ralf didnt perform anything expected of him but he was in the backfoot from the start. Repeating the obvious points.
*No New players in January.
*Players in last year of contract who didnt bother turning up like Pogba, Cavani, Lingard and those who are in last legs like Mata and Matic.
* 2 positions in CM had only a player each(Not considering Dubai Pogba). McFred Midfield which needed upgrade of both players in the previous summer itself.
*Loosing Greenwood, as it cost us min 12 points as the right wing was non existent for half season and all wide players can play only in left wing.
*Division in squad. Ronaldo gang Vs Macguire gang.
*Bloated squad with too many players (CD, AM & LW) who couldnt get minutes as Ole didnt trim.
*Worst coaching/scouting setup among all big clubs.
*No decent coaches ready to join an interim manager mid season.

It didnt help as well that going through the above troubles with results going down hill, Ralf to save his skin started giving interviews calling out United management, players etc for what they are, which got him sacked from any future role at the club.

ETH is lucky to start in a clean slate.
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Have the events of today (Ronaldo/Piers Morgan interview) added even more credence to the fact Ralf Rangnick was on the right track and pretty badly treated by Man United?
 
Tigersam said:
Have the events of today (Ronaldo/Piers Morgan interview) added even more credence to the fact Ralf Rangnick was on the right track and pretty badly treated by Man United?
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No. How could a coach with United's worst win percentage in 50 years have been on the right track? He was a horrendous appointment even after Ole's disaster class.
 
I liked Ralf. Results were terrible but that was the curve we were on. Really don't think there was much he could do.
 
Shark said:
No. How could a coach with United's worst win percentage in 50 years have been on the right track? He was a horrendous appointment even after Ole's disaster class.
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Right track to becoming our manager? No, I would imagine he was never meant to be on that track long term.

edit: damn thought this was the ronaldo thread. Don't want to be part of these tedious ralf threads anymore
 
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Tigersam said:
Have the events of today (Ronaldo/Piers Morgan interview) added even more credence to the fact Ralf Rangnick was on the right track and pretty badly treated by Man United?
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No. He failed to exert any control over the players and the performances at the end of last season are testament to that. Just because Toxic Ron didn't rate him doesn't mean he was the right man for the job.
 
Shark said:
No. How could a coach with United's worst win percentage in 50 years have been on the right track? He was a horrendous appointment even after Ole's disaster class.
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Agree. Total disaster. The bizarre reliance on a coach based in Russia, weird training sessions, a shitty staff, strange tactics and selections. Things can be two things. Ronaldo can be a prick but simultaneously also be correct that Ralf was a poor appointment and a terrible manager.
 
Tigersam said:
Have the events of today (Ronaldo/Piers Morgan interview) added even more credence to the fact Ralf Rangnick was on the right track and pretty badly treated by Man United?
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Not sure how on earth you came to that conclusion. He was really the worst appointment I can recall at United. The man makes Moyes's time at United look like prime Pep
 
Ralf was a terrible manager and Ronaldo saying that is just so he can win some fan sentiment. He knows it's obvious Ralf sucks so saying something like that will make fans think hes speaking sense.

I don't think Ronaldo's comments changes anything about Rangick. I actually really liked Ragnick as a personality but he was nowhere near the level
 
shamans said:
Ralf was a terrible manager and Ronaldo saying that is just so he can win some fan sentiment. He knows it's obvious Ralf sucks so saying something like that will make fans think hes speaking sense.

I don't think Ronaldo's comments changes anything about Rangick. I actually really liked Rangnick as a personality but he was nowhere near the level
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This. Ralf got brought in to steady the ship. Wasn’t the type of guy we needed but he’s what was available at that time. For Ronaldo to come out and say he’d never heard of him is a bit disrespectful.
 
Ralf was a terrible manager but he identified a lot of the problems at the club.

Not a lot of managers would have done that, as their desperation for the job would have been much more important to them.
 
No he was only brought in because no one would come for 6 months. Greenwood becoming a dick of course made it a lot worse for him. Then players don't following his instructions. Now we know that even ETH has problems with the players not following instructions.
 
Tigersam said:
Have the events of today (Ronaldo/Piers Morgan interview) added even more credence to the fact Ralf Rangnick was on the right track and pretty badly treated by Man United?
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Yes. Ronaldo just proved they downed tools before he even walked in the door. Just because you never heard of him which is ridiculous but even if you haven't doesn't mean you down tools. They fkn downed tools. How can you blame the manager for that is beyond me. Was he a sht manager? Yes. Was the results mainly his fault? No. If they looked they were even half arsed and not arguing but still losing then yeah blame the manager.
 
As others have said. We knew he wasn’t a very good manager. He wasn’t a very good manager. But he identified and clarified everything wrong with the club and picked good transfer targets to sign (which we ignored).
 
goalscholes said:
As others have said. We knew he wasn’t a very good manager. He wasn’t a very good manager. But he identified and clarified everything wrong with the club and picked good transfer targets to sign (which we ignored).
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He was binned off because he said what needed to be said.

Ironically much of it repeated by Ronaldo in this Piers Morgan interview.

But because Ralf R. identified Ronaldo as one of the problems, Ronaldo has criticised him, and who is going to listen to a supply-teacher, when a GOAT speaks.

What a mess.
 
Woodzy said:
Ralf was a terrible manager but he identified a lot of the problems at the club.

Not a lot of managers would have done that, as their desperation for the job would have been much more important to them.
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That's hardly some amazing feat, lots of people on here and fans that have watched United regularly over the last few years identified the same problems.

Identifying problems is the relatively easy part, rectifying the problems is the hard part. And for the latter it seemed like Ralf Rangnick had neither the ability nor the desire to even attempt to fix things short term and get the team performing again with some attempt at boosting morale/confidence with good man management. He almost immediately gave up on the managing side and put his DOF hat back on. The problem is he wasn't the DOF, wasn't hired to be the DOF and was never likely to be given the role of DOF. So basically he wasted 6 months going through the motions while the season went down the shitter with him constantly talking shite in press conferences.
 
If ETH had RR's squad, where would United be in the table? What if ETH had to play Pogba and Matic instead of Eriksen and Casemiro? Don't forget Maguire would be an automatic starter instead of Martinez. And of course, you had mighty Lingard instead of Antony. I would say United would be 11th or 12th.
 
goalscholes said:
As others have said. We knew he wasn’t a very good manager. He wasn’t a very good manager. But he identified and clarified everything wrong with the club and picked good transfer targets to sign (which we ignored).
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That's rewriting history. When he was announced we had fanboys come out of the woodwork saying we just hired the father of gegenpressing, that he'll make us a modern team with modern cosching, and was far above the likes of Ole, posting some dumb lecture he fid.

Within a month it was clear he was a fraud and then the delusion kicked in, and he successfully turned most of the fanbase against a fully demoralised and weakened side that needed good leadership and support. He provided neither.

What ETH has done with most of the same players these idiot fans and ragnick said was impossible. He's provided leadership, support, discipline and something to fight for.
 
tbtt said:
If ETH had RR's squad, where would United be in the table? What if ETH had to play Pogba and Matic instead of Eriksen and Casemiro? Don't forget Maguire would be an automatic starter instead of Martinez. And of course, you had mighty Lingard instead of Antony. I would say United would be 11th or 12th.
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He has most of the same squad and has us in 5th. He'd have done way more than Ralph.
 
The Mitcher said:
He has most of the same squad and has us in 5th. He'd have done way more than Ralph.
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EtH would have struggled...especially without the assurance of being manager after 6 months and the players were shit...only Ronaldo was decent with DDG, Bruno was in bad form and at least tried.

No preseason, no Martinez, Eriksen, Casemiro, Garnacho a year younger, etc. The team last year quit on themselves and each other once CL was over. Unforgivable the attitude of most of the squad last year.
 
stevoc said:
That's hardly some amazing feat, lots of people on here and fans that have watched United regularly over the last few years identified the same problems.

Identifying problems is the relatively easy part, rectifying the problems is the hard part. And for the latter it seemed like Ralf Rangnick had neither the ability nor the desire to even attempt to fix things short term and get the team performing again with some attempt at boosting morale/confidence with good man management. He almost immediately gave up on the managing side and put his DOF hat back on. The problem is he wasn't the DOF, wasn't hired to be the DOF and was never likely to be given the role of DOF. So basically he wasted 6 months going through the motions while the season went down the shitter with him constantly talking shite in press conferences.
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His solution was from a perspective of a DOF, get rid of the current batch and get in younger and hungry players who actually want to succeed.

Still not sure why we hired him as a manager when he’s barely done any of it in the past decade.
 
elmo said:
His solution was from a perspective of a DOF, get rid of the current batch and get in younger and hungry players who actually want to succeed.

Still not sure why we hired him as a manager when he’s barely done any of it in the past decade.
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Exactly my point anyone can say that but it's not a solution mid season when you've been brought into steady the ship and get an underperforming team back on track.

tbtt said:
If ETH had RR's squad, where would United be in the table? What if ETH had to play Pogba and Matic instead of Eriksen and Casemiro? Don't forget Maguire would be an automatic starter instead of Martinez. And of course, you had mighty Lingard instead of Antony. I would say United would be 11th or 12th.
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Solskjaer managed to do alright with virtually the same squad (probably a weaker squad in fact).
 
edcunited1878 said:
EtH would have struggled...especially without the assurance of being manager after 6 months and the players were shit...only Ronaldo was decent with DDG, Bruno was in bad form and at least tried.

No preseason, no Martinez, Eriksen, Casemiro, Garnacho a year younger, etc. The team last year quit on themselves and each other once CL was over. Unforgivable the attitude of most of the squad last year.
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Even with how bad we were after Xmas last year the CL wasn't really out of reach until around April.
 
elmo said:
His solution was from a perspective of a DOF, get rid of the current batch and get in younger and hungry players who actually want to succeed.

Still not sure why we hired him as a manager when he’s barely done any of it in the past decade.
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The man himself fancies himself as a manager given he left the united job to become manager in Austria.

Another point people forget is that he was open to being made permanent full time. Probably hoping for an ole-style run and for fans to demand he be made permanent, it was when things turned sour that he went ham on the club and did a hatchet job on the players.
 
stevoc said:
Even with how bad we were after Xmas last year the CL wasn't really out of reach until around April.
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United had trouble scoring when Ronaldo didn't score. He had a big drought from about Nov/Dec until March or so. Too many dropped points because nobody was clinical. Similar issue this season, even w Marcus back to his normal level...which still isn't good enough to where United want to be. Not everything goes through Bruno as it once did, however he's still a primary threat to contribute goals and assists. If Martial stays fit, simialr w Antony, they would be a good unit.
 
The Mitcher said:
That's rewriting history. When he was announced we had fanboys come out of the woodwork saying we just hired the father of gegenpressing, that he'll make us a modern team with modern cosching, and was far above the likes of Ole, posting some dumb lecture he fid.

Within a month it was clear he was a fraud and then the delusion kicked in, and he successfully turned most of the fanbase against a fully demoralised and weakened side that needed good leadership and support. He provided neither.

What ETH has done with most of the same players these idiot fans and Rangnick said was impossible. He's provided leadership, support, discipline and something to fight for.
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To be fair to RR, he came in as interim mid-season with 4-5 months in contract:
- Coaches he could get were bottom of the barrel quality, due to the contract's timeframe.
- Existing players didn't suit his playing style.
- He couldn't get any players to suit his style at all.
- And players knew he would be in charge only for 4-5 months, so some just could care less and played like buffoon (mostly the English squad: Maguire, Shaw, Rashford, Sancho).
- Some players were just taking sweet time to end their contracts (Pogba, Lingard, Cavani).

I mean, I have doubt any manager could do significantly better than him. Perhaps if we signed interim with similar football style, the results might be a bit better.
 
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The first 60 mins against CP was what he liked playing. The players then refused to play like that. Greenwood got himself suspended we couldn't score goals.
Was he a good manager at United? Of course not. But he was a decent manager who wants a different style of play which the players were not willing to accept.
Imagine if ETH is having issues with players not following his instructions ( he has said that publicly) Ralf has no prayer as everyone knew that he was gone after 6 months. The only good thing he did was calling out the players so the club couldn't ignore it when ETH came in.
 
Rangnick was a good manager. Just like Solskjaer and those previous (except Moyes). They were let down by players and their behavior. Some of them who are thankfully gone. Player power culture needs to be kicked from the club.
 
What he tried to do at first wasn't working at all. The 4-2-2-2 was awful. When he changed to a 4-2-3-1, it was better. Until we got knocked out of the CL. The players downed tools after that. I don't think Rangnick could do much. Doesn't seem like he had much respect from the squad. If the players won't listen to you, there's not much you can do. He also didn't get to sign anybody. Greenwood got suspended. That cost us a lot of points. He didn't get replaced, and we didn't bring in a midfielder we desperately needed. He had no chance.

Rangnick was honest about the lack of quality in the squad. What he was saying in public probably didn't help him to get the squad on side, though.
 
The Mitcher said:
That's rewriting history. When he was announced we had fanboys come out of the woodwork saying we just hired the father of gegenpressing, that he'll make us a modern team with modern cosching, and was far above the likes of Ole, posting some dumb lecture he fid.

Within a month it was clear he was a fraud and then the delusion kicked in, and he successfully turned most of the fanbase against a fully demoralised and weakened side that needed good leadership and support. He provided neither.

What ETH has done with most of the same players these idiot fans and Rangnick said was impossible. He's provided leadership, support, discipline and something to fight for.
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You’re rewriting history. There is a reason no one wanted him as a permanent manager. They wanted him as a 6 month temporary manager to identify ways to improve and then move to a DoF role.

I’m sure everyone expected to have more of an impact than he had. Losing one of the best young strikers in the world didn’t help though.
 
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