I can quite easily call them minnow clubs in comparison to us, because that’s exactly what they are. Nothing more than shop windows in weak leagues designed to sell players for a profit. Hardly the experience we need.
Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped
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I can quite easily call them minnow clubs in comparison to us, because that’s exactly what they are. Nothing more than shop windows in weak leagues designed to sell players for a profit. Hardly the experience we need.
Yeah so what's yer point? Or are you another one of these just glossing over his interim managerial stint as insignificant? That first six months should have been his main focus and priority. We still had a lot to play for when he came in.
Just blanked him? So much nonsense stated as fact.
No matter which way you try to spin it, repeatedly crying off to the press when you don’t get your own way isn’t a good look. It lacks professionalism and only justifies the decision to get rid of him.
I’m actually quite confident that no credible manager would have gone near us if they had to work under him in any capacity, based on how he conducted himself while here.
You haven't got a clue. It's the same Ole in brigade who is still upset that Ole was sacked and RR took over. It's nothing personal.
There wasn't any moment that I ever wanted Ole to be manager of United
Well what would you do with Mourinho or Conte or Rafa ? He called out things as it was. The problem was never Ragnick. What happened to all the managers in last 10 years. Everyone had flaws right except ETH who will also fall to the same fanbase hysteria. When Ragnick was appointed there were similar stories about him being the mentor for Klopp and he was the next big thing till he wasn’t. The problem is back to the club and a gullible fanbase who are happy to blame the manager which the club wants anyway. Every manager should prove himself but is there even a semblance of a structure in the club for them to succeed? ETH also has quite a few issues and so does every manager. Liverpool fans get irritated as Klopp does not buy players or buy big names etc. ETH wanting dutch style players is similar. Maybe that’s something he wants but is the club aligned to help achieve his vision. Klopp has a supporting structure in Liverpool. Does the club have a vision on what players and style and philosophy it wants to see on the pitch? Is it dutch football, barcelona type football or a gegenpress or whatever? Blame Ragnick all you want but people in football respect him for a reason. Why did such a person fails as did others before him? Some were bad but all? Players being sceptical of the club today is Ragnick? I don’t see players jumping to join ETH either. How do you know ETH is the good one or the bad one? Maybe it more important to say where is the structure which enables him irrespective of being good or bad. If anything Liverpool should be a case study of the pitfalls you should try to avoid. No club should have to be mismanaged.
The problem with this gut feeling - and without meaning to sound like a dick, it was only a year and a half ago so shouldn't really need to look up the stats - is that it's not actually backed up by the facts.
Our home record in 2020/21 was actually quite crap, worse than it was in 2021/22.
I like this summary.
Isn't it a manager's job to motivate the players and get them to buy into their ideas, rather than the other way around?
But isn't it a fact ?
They downed tools before he even showed up. What's he supposed to do? The players had more power than the permanent manager, do you think for a moment they thought Rangnick would be a challenge?
Cheers!
The first six months should be the focus and analyze the squad and structure. thats why he would be working for the next two years as an consultant.
The main focus and priority would be the following two years after his interim manager role. Atleast thats how i see it.
They seemed to play for Carrick, didn't they?
If we did finish top 4, would it be on the players or the manager?
We're just rehashing old crap that is really just pointless. There will always be this bizarre element of the fanbase that just cling on to this myth about his consultancy role whilst ignoring the day to management of the team and getting results, which is what he was brought in for and what he should have been focusing on 100% of the time he was here. The consultancy stuff would have taken care of itself if he had done his job properly.
No
Weird as hell to see posters fixate on it making all these excuses as to why he should have stayed and inventing reasons that we should have kept him. We all saw him fail as a manager, anything else is just statements and wishful thinking. Do, not, get, it... Who's to say he wouldn't have fecked things up even more?
It really is bizarre. Even pining for him after ten Hag's first game in charge is next level shit.
Rangnick and the Gegenpressing. Practically every team does it already, so I´m not sure why this idea was ever thought to be enough to get us back on track. We weren´t able to do it anyway, and Ragnick didn´t seem to have much more to offer - except behaving like a loose canon in pressers.
Rangnick came in and tried to discipline the players, make them work on there tactical naivety. By all accounts he spent ages trying to drill the players how to function as unit without the ball ( somthing which is clearly a massive issues) and the player’s basically rebelled and briefed against him, mocked his coaches becuase basically his coach as basically becuase he was American.
he was like a substitute teacher, who tried to make the class do extra work. They players new there was no consequences to not working as he would be gone in a few months.
Of course this may still show Rangnick was limited as manager, but he clearly understood the issues with the squad. And has experience creating a structure at club that works. The idea that we didn’t listen to him and let him go is just bonkers
Sources?
This is the point some are making. That he never was a top manager but he was extremely knowledgeable and experienced in building a club. We hired him for something he was crap at and did not keep him for something he was extremely good at.
Point I am making is how do you know he'd be extremely good at it? He's done nothing like it before. MUFC is a different beast, as he found out, harshly. As others also have that have come with reputations. Who's to say it would have gone well, he wasn't even doing things you could point to and say 'more of that please!'
More what? More talking?
If people wanna pine over what could have been, knock yourself out. I just don't know why? Personally think people should move on...
Rangnick wasn’t the problem, but Rangnick certainly wasn’t the solution either. He got himself quite justifiably pushed out the door.
And for all this ‘people in football respect him for a reason’ talk that I’m always hearing, there’s a reason why he came from Locomotiv and is now managing the Austria NT. His reputation is so overstated on here its untrue.
It's fecking pathetic idolising someone so much that they have to resort to character assassination of someone who was credited with mentoring managers like Nagelsmann, Klopp and Tutchel as well as building clubs in the case of Leipzig making them European power houses just to cover the obvious deficiencies of Solskjaer.
I really don't have the energy to argue with them anymore. It's just too tiresome.
Ralf did worse with the same squad than the rightly sacked Solskjær.
Also got to laugh at Leipzig being European powerhouses with their zero trophies. Or final appearances.
It's Solskjaer's fault Rangnick had the worst win % in 50 years. Or something.
I don't think that part is true.
Look if you are going to make up some fan fiction about how he was hired for the long term for the back room then don't bother. Murtough doesn't have that kind of foresight. Every source I've read suggested the consultancy role was a minor one and probably to entice him to give up his job in Moscow to come take over for six months.
I was one of those who held high hopes for him, I even made a post about how he'd probably snub us unless we dangled a carrot and promised him the dof job afterwards. Unfortunately he made a mess of his time here and burned all the bridges. Top 4 should have been achievable with every one else being so bad. Regardless, any sort of meaningful backroom position would've conflicted with Murtough's role so it's pointless to speculate.
Yeah it isn't. And the rest of it is overblown. Rangnick hasn't actually "mentored" Tuchel or Nagelsmann, at least not to the extent that he somehow has a hand in them being great managers. The whole thing is completely mythified.
Let’s be honest, that consultancy role was almost certainly just attending the meetings with Robson, Ferguson and Arnold.
I'm sorry but from an outsider's perspective it is incredibly fecking ridiculous that United signed a genuinely excellent DoF when it comes to identifying emerging talent, made him a coach when he hadn't done that consistently for more or less a decade, then fired him on the basis of short term results.
How does this make any sense whatsoever? If the goal was exclusively finishing top 4 then why on earth would you pick Rangnick of all people when he's barely coached? If instead the goal was to give him a crash course on the squad so as to best identify strengths and weaknesses before stepping into an executive role then that would be smart, except he was then fired for (seemingly) reporting his opinion to the chuckleheads running the club at the moment.
I find it bizarre that people can't disassociate Rangnick the coach from Rangnick the executive - as if the failings in one role automatically reflect on the competency in the other.
How does this make any sense whatsoever? If the goal was exclusively finishing top 4 then why on earth would you pick Rangnick of all people when he's barely coached? If instead the goal was to give him a crash course on the squad so as to best identify strengths and weaknesses before stepping into an executive role then that would be smart, except he was then fired for (seemingly) reporting his opinion to the chuckleheads running the club at the moment.
I find it bizarre that people can't disassociate Rangnick the coach from Rangnick the executive - as if the failings in one role automatically reflect on the competency in the other.
Thanks for clearing that up, Ralf has fantastic PR.
People don't know that the messenger can be separate from the message. Don't know how many different ways it can be repeated that he could be a shite manager and still have been right on things.
Even the nuggets of common sense like needing two strikers for example, how does a failed interim stint make that any less true? The club walked into a new season eyes wide open with the same underperforming attack and even less options in midfield. They bet the new season on the talent deficit we observed simply being a form and coaching issue rather than a quality issue. It's almost like they need someone to infuse the hierarchy with occasional common sense. Let's not pretend we're above that. We are now in the market looking for panic buys.
Even the nuggets of common sense like needing two strikers for example, how does a failed interim stint make that any less true? The club walked into a new season eyes wide open with the same underperforming attack and even less options in midfield. They bet the new season on the talent deficit we observed simply being a form and coaching issue rather than a quality issue. It's almost like they need someone to infuse the hierarchy with occasional common sense. Let's not pretend we're above that. We are now in the market looking for panic buys.
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Our fan base is the most gullible, easily manipulated and probably hero-worshiping one I have seen. The easiest way to become the savior of the fan base is to
1. Be a current player who never plays, even if you have shown time and again that you aren't good enough anyway e.g. VDB, Bailly
2. Be a former manager who was rightly fired for not meeting expectation e.g. Mourinho, LvG
No other fanbase rever their old regimes as much as ours do even in the face of overwhelming evidence that those old regimes might not have been the solution anyway. The last two champions leagues have been won by former PSG managers, but you never see their fans going crazy try to justify the results of those managers at their club, or blaming their sacking on the players, board, other fans etc.
Yet it happens everytime with us. Imagine if LvG or Jose won the champions league back to back, it would have been carnage on here.
Any way you dice it, Ralf failed here. He might have told you what you wanted to hear, but for the job he was hired for, he was an absolute failure. There were mitigating factors, but same logic could be applied to other managers, at other clubs too. I cannot take your opinion of RR seriously if all you need to support his famous 'recommendation' is "calling our the club and players", any idiot could do that. We would never know what players he recommended, or if they were good enough anyway.
And yes, if we needed someone to build the club, I'd much rather united poached DOFs/Technical directors from the likes of Brentford/Brighton, clubs who have grown mostly organically and done it in a competitive league like ours. For all the good PR Rangnick has managed to amass for himself, he was backed by the equivalent of a sugar daddy, buying their way through several divisions to the top of the German league. That does not impress me personally.
1. Be a current player who never plays, even if you have shown time and again that you aren't good enough anyway e.g. VDB, Bailly
2. Be a former manager who was rightly fired for not meeting expectation e.g. Mourinho, LvG
No other fanbase rever their old regimes as much as ours do even in the face of overwhelming evidence that those old regimes might not have been the solution anyway. The last two champions leagues have been won by former PSG managers, but you never see their fans going crazy try to justify the results of those managers at their club, or blaming their sacking on the players, board, other fans etc.
Yet it happens everytime with us. Imagine if LvG or Jose won the champions league back to back, it would have been carnage on here.
Any way you dice it, Ralf failed here. He might have told you what you wanted to hear, but for the job he was hired for, he was an absolute failure. There were mitigating factors, but same logic could be applied to other managers, at other clubs too. I cannot take your opinion of RR seriously if all you need to support his famous 'recommendation' is "calling our the club and players", any idiot could do that. We would never know what players he recommended, or if they were good enough anyway.
And yes, if we needed someone to build the club, I'd much rather united poached DOFs/Technical directors from the likes of Brentford/Brighton, clubs who have grown mostly organically and done it in a competitive league like ours. For all the good PR Rangnick has managed to amass for himself, he was backed by the equivalent of a sugar daddy, buying their way through several divisions to the top of the German league. That does not impress me personally.
Tuchel on Ralf: He [Rangnick] was my coach as a player, and he guided us. He opened, really, [our] eyes for us because we believed at that time in Germany that defenders run behind the strikers,' Tuchel said.
'No matter where they go. They go to the toilet, you follow them! From that moment, it changed how I watched football games. He (Rangnick) opened the door.
'At some point, you have to go through the door and you are responsible to make the very best of opportunities for yourself.
'This is what I did, because I had people like Ralf who supported me, and so many more, starting with my father and everybody on the way from there in my life, which was then closely connected all the time to football. That's why I'm a lucky and a blessed person and happy and grateful for where I am.'
A guy universally praised by the best German coaches as helping them understand the modern way to coach. But yea it's all his PR, I'm sure they paid off Tuchel to say that.
You mean Ralf did worse with Oles squad, no?
For a club formed in 2009 and starting off in the 5th division and then making it to a CL semi final 10 years later then making it to the last 16 a year later I'd say power houses isn't as much of an exaggeration as you're making out.
Why? Not one person has said Ralf was a success as interim. The thread has been brought to life becuase his experience in building clubs is more than every single person at the club put together. You don't think that could of been useful?Wow, the irony really is lost on these Rangnites.
Agreed. Reading up on it Klopps mentor was Frank at Mainz although Klopp and Rangnick have had a special relationship for decades. Rangnick said in an interview that after Hoffenheim beat Klopps Dortmund 4-1 in 2008, Klopp rung him up asking about his style of play which was later implemented by Klopp.
Slow down a bit there mate. Where did I mention fan fiction, long term, Murtough, Moscow, top 4, dof or anything else you've written? I simply stated that Ralfs biggest critics are Ole biggest supporters and I really don't think that's debatable.
You should be thread banned . Your hatred for Ralf makes it impossible to have any sort of reasonable discussion on the subject.
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