He didn't, something is too often forgotten with Leipzig, Houiller is the one that built the structure not Rangnick, Rangnick came later and continued the job done but he didn't build it.
Ralf Rangnick's consultancy role has been scrapped
- Thread starter L1nk
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He didn't, something is too often forgotten with Leipzig, Houiller is the one that built the structure not Rangnick, Rangnick came later and continued the job done but he didn't build it.
Yep, amongst all the gnashing of teeth and "woe is us" nonsense on here, the ever so slight elephant in the room is what makes this guy who did such a bang average job for us for 6 months, any sort of "guru" on long term leadership for us?
I don't think he was. If I remember correctly his first change was to actually undo that and streamline the scouting and recruitment department who was bloated.
No it was October-November and they didn’t know who they wanted yet. The club started interviewing candidates around February and among those were Poch, Ten Hag, Lopetegui, Luis Enrique and maybe others.
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Guy who had zero impact leaves.
Still the greatest academy talent ever
In hindsight, appointing Ralf was a big mistake in short term. But there is no point compounding that mistake by still having him here. I think during the stint, he not only lost respect within the squad but also within the hierarchy. I know fans loved Ralf spouting all the stuff in public, however true or not and however much it was in self-preservation or actually wanting good for the club. But that sorta thing never turns out good and never helps garner respect in any sorta organization. And without respect, you don't have the power (unless you are the overlord).
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...t-of-football-director-and-technical-director
John will have overall leadership and responsibility for operations and strategy across all football functions, reinforcing the strong foundations already in place. This appointment builds on the work John has already undertaken in recent years, working closely with Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and the rest of the football staff to create the structures, processes and culture to deliver sustained success on the pitch. This has included successful overhauls of the club’s Academy and recruitment department.
If Rangnick was a failure then can we blame it on Murtough for choosing badly or is it down to the usual Woodward/Glazer/Manchester weather/Jesus/Moses/Covid? It seems that this shitfest is in line to what we've been seeing during the past 9 years with the difference that now Woodward is gone.
Not really a big deal
we have Ten Hag, anyone losing their shit needs to simmer down
Seen people saying we could of got a manger in, like who? Conte? And be in the same position when the glaziers don’t give him who he wants and walks out
we have Ten Hag, anyone losing their shit needs to simmer down
Seen people saying we could of got a manger in, like who? Conte? And be in the same position when the glaziers don’t give him who he wants and walks out
From memory it's the youth recruitment, not the professional recruitment which are both separate. The professional recruitment was managed by the manager for some strange reason.
What makes you so sure?
I think the official website would specify that. Also I doubt that Ole (who is mentioned in that paragraph)would be involved in youth recruitment
Fair enough, that's what I read all these years.
He’s wrong because the board didn’t start the interview process until Feb-March and they looked at at least 4 candidates then. They had no clue who they wanted when they sacked Solsjkaer.
A manager who’s best work has been with a strict DoF and CEO
It’s not about ETH, Ole or any manager the priority needs to be sorting the upper management team we must be one of the only big clubs in Europe who don’t have a DoF what the feck is going on.
It’s almost like the club is run like a circus and they’re too embarrassed to let a proper football man see the mess they’ve made. I can’t wait for Ralf’s tell all stories about this club.
Imagine ETH trying to cool things down and playing clever with the squad and press in the first few months, while RR keeps airing dirty laundry whenever someone asks him about the club.
I think it would have been a big concern and it was right that he was let go. He lost whatever reputation/credibility to keep working at the club he had after all these damaging press conferences and leaks (rightly or wrongly).
I think it would have been a big concern and it was right that he was let go. He lost whatever reputation/credibility to keep working at the club he had after all these damaging press conferences and leaks (rightly or wrongly).
Not exactly sure that's any comforting. The biggest problem people have with the news is that we wanted Ralf to help ETH in purging the squad and use contacts across Europe to bring new players. Now that he is gone, the chances of seeing a purge are slimmer outside of expiring contracts.
If anyone is pointless in the Manchester United footballing department right now, it is Darren Fletcher. As for Murtough, he better show everyone that he is worth something in his own position because surrounding himself with a newbie (Fletcher) is not what you want at United.
Honest people are not welcome at this club.
Should of just kept Carrick as interim.
The 2 year, for few days a month consultancy thing always seemed a bit Mickey Mouse tbh. There were never any details at any stage released on this future role by the club so it always seemed a bit off. I don't blame the club too much on hiring Ralf though as everyone thought it was a good move at the time, that in hindsight turned to a load of poopy.
For Feck Sake I’m getting frustrated with the Fletch/Murtough slander on here.
I'm far from sure when it comes to our club (probably should have made that clearer) but it felt like the club were leaning towards ETH from the outset.
If that wasn't the case, wouldn't they have appointed a proven winner in Conte who would almost certainly have gotten top-four with this team? That they were prepared to appoint a relative nobody in Rangnick - running the risk of losing millions if we missed top-four in the process, leads me to thinking they had their hearts set on ETH all along. Could be wrong, who knows with this club.
The squad does not need to be purged like the way people think. Most players who should leave due to having bad behaviors will leave. The rebuilding squad would be a lot easier in terms of getting those players out. The only concern is if the club can buy (decent/right) players now. Having RR does not help with it much at all. In fact, he made sure that it would be harder than usual by being out of CL and all those damaging press/leaks.
I will admit that the article is confusing but they are talking about youth recruitment and his job in that part of the club which is why they talk about development.
From memory what he overhauled with Butt was the youth players development and recruiting, one of their first appointment was David Harrison, the youth head of recruiting. The professional recruiting hasn't been overhauled, the club expanded it and there was a committee led by the manager but no actual overhaul.
Yes but ten Hag is quite similar to rangnick in the way he talks about football. No point having him if ten Hag knows himself what the problems with the club is, ten Hag is a football man and wouldn’t of took the job if things weren’t going to improve. None of our other previous managers were like that… they just wanted the job because it’s one of the biggest in the world. Ten Hag actually wants to come and be successful here and he’d of made sure they give him a free reign to do the hell he wants to achieve what he wants before taking the job. We don’t need rangnick for that. Also nobody knew at the time that rangnick would take on an international role.
Obviously they had to be seen interviewing multiple candidates for the position as it's procedure to do so, but I believe ETH was the primary target.
Ralfs gone... new contracts for Jones, Pogba and Jesse on the way
What's your view on murtough
Supposedly, ralf was murtoughs appointment and he has been a disaster. Doesn't reflect well on him. Hiring a strategic thinker / dof as an interim coach doesnt exactly smack of a well though out move
Ah fair enough - I thought the board were dead set on Pochetino and somehow PSG's ignonimous CL exit persuaded them to look elsewhere.
They never wanted Conte for some weird strange reason, even though I think he'd have gotten us CL and fecked off somewhere else in the summer
He had zero impact because no one was either prepared to listen or to action anything he said.
Takes 2 to tango.
Far too intelligent for United.
This announcement falls directly in line with what I have been saying for the past few weeks.
Nothing has changed.
ETH will be hired.
Fans will get excited thinking he is a great manager* and will take us to the promised land.
We will buy a Galactico class player on huge wages for a big transfer fee.
Fans will be thinking, "this is it!"
Social media will go crazy and MUFC will be trending.
In the first season, he'll get top 6.
The next season he'll get top 4.
The 3rd season will unravel when the players throw him under the bus.
We will then hire yet another manager.
...and so on.
To think that not a single player who was responsible for this year's debacle has left the club, but the guy who was due to help us build the club back up has gone. That tells me everything.
These players have essentially thrown 2 managers under the bus, within a single season.
Reality Check
Fans need to realise that we are a business and the aim is 4th place, every season. If we can achieve 4th place, as a business, we will be financially successful and this is ultimately what the board care about. The owners don't have the ambition to win trophies. This has been proven during the last 9 years.
They'll continue spending more money on players, to get the biggest names to sell shirts, inorder to recoup those costs. That's their business model.
*take note that ETH has never managed a club of this size with players that cost this much, with such big egos. His current level is Ajax and we are hoping that he can raise his level to manage a top club. The likelihood of him taking the step up is low - very few people reach the top of their professions (that's the norm). D.Moyes tried to take that step up and got fired in 10 months. That's how difficult it is, to take the step up.
Nothing has changed.
ETH will be hired.
Fans will get excited thinking he is a great manager* and will take us to the promised land.
We will buy a Galactico class player on huge wages for a big transfer fee.
Fans will be thinking, "this is it!"
Social media will go crazy and MUFC will be trending.
In the first season, he'll get top 6.
The next season he'll get top 4.
The 3rd season will unravel when the players throw him under the bus.
We will then hire yet another manager.
...and so on.
To think that not a single player who was responsible for this year's debacle has left the club, but the guy who was due to help us build the club back up has gone. That tells me everything.
These players have essentially thrown 2 managers under the bus, within a single season.
Reality Check
Fans need to realise that we are a business and the aim is 4th place, every season. If we can achieve 4th place, as a business, we will be financially successful and this is ultimately what the board care about. The owners don't have the ambition to win trophies. This has been proven during the last 9 years.
They'll continue spending more money on players, to get the biggest names to sell shirts, inorder to recoup those costs. That's their business model.
*take note that ETH has never managed a club of this size with players that cost this much, with such big egos. His current level is Ajax and we are hoping that he can raise his level to manage a top club. The likelihood of him taking the step up is low - very few people reach the top of their professions (that's the norm). D.Moyes tried to take that step up and got fired in 10 months. That's how difficult it is, to take the step up.
You sound like you’d absolutely love for us to be shite forever just so you can say you were right. How are you upset about things that haven’t even happened yet?
That is what happens when crooks are owning the clubs. Yep, the Glazers are utter crooks.
Really? We must also remember that Murtough and Fletcher have a big part in building that garbage of a season before Ralf even arrived. The fact that they are still not experienced enough on the job by several standards doesn't fill me with confidence until and unless they have someone with far better credentials sitting at the high table of the footballing department. ETH is a head coach who has just arrived, and thus I don't qualify him as a member of that high table yet.
This
I think it’s no more than it just adding another layer of confusion. Murtough is the DoF not Rangnick. He needs to succeed or fail by his decisions. Plus we have a very determined single minded boss now, we don’t need Rangnick .
Bear with me a bit on how I think Rangnick's step-down from his consultancy role was inevitable. And this is NOT another Rangnick-bashing post like many others. I'm quite bored of those really. Sometimes things don't work out just because of their nature, not because of anyone's faults.
Looking back at this whole prospect of Ralf's consultancy, may be things just weren't meant to be. Regarding players recruitment, Ralf mostly suggested Bundesliga gems, while Ten Hag seems to prefer nimble, technical players from Holland/Erendivisie (I'm not even mentioning another side that is our scouts's recommendation which consists mostly British players or trendy Premier League "proven" stars). They were all destined to clash at some points.
Rangnick's vision seems to be building a squad of 18 tireless workhorses, with an average age of 24. They are not superstars (May be just players in the Fred category) but all function like ONE BRAIN with eleven pair of legs. They would mostly press for the ball high-up on the pitch and immediately progress the ball vertically within 10 seconds. This seems good in theory and would make us a versatile squad with similar core strength to Liverpool, hence the rumours of Bundesliga gems like Nkunku, Haidara...
On the contrary, Ten Hag seems to prefer his team having fluent buildup from the back (More similar to City than Liverpool). If we believe in the transfer rumours, here is what Ten Hag wants:
- 1 DLF (De Jong)
- 1 CDM (Kante)
- 1 CB (Pau Torres)
- 1 RB (Timber)
- 1 CF (Nunez)
- 1 RW (Bergwijn, Antony)
It is not hard to picture to an extent the kind of football Ten Hag wants to build here. How successful it would be is still a question. But you can see the difference in football progression ideas of Ralf Rangnick and Erik ten Hag. With Steve McClaren and Mitchell van der Gaag as assistants, Erik predictably thinks he has not much of a use for Rangnick. That's fair game. Ralf has already fulfilled his other job to the club of listing his input on the organizational structure and players's reports (To Ten Hag) anyway.
Rangnick has no chance of being a DOF (Murtough is the closest one of our own version of a DOF), and he is not a Technical Director either (Fletcher's role). So we can kinda see the writing was on the wall when our deal with Paul Mitchell fell through. That could have been a political move from Rangnick to bring more football experts with close ties to him to the club and further consolidate his soft power. That deal falling through signaled Rangnick's failure in this game of gaining soft influence within United's organization. Ten Hag, being a man with such strong personality, will predictably have very little interaction with Rangnick, much less actually weighing Rangnick's words more than 50% of all his decisions.
There is no need for ill will towards Rangnick like I've seen in this thread. Losing the "game of thrones" or not, he is the man who genuinely wanted CHANGES at this club, which our fans have also wished for. You can say his method and antics were too drastic. But that may have been a necessary extreme to counter the over-simplified version of Vibes-FC antics from Ole's era before. This club needed changes, not patting on backs all the time. Him rocking the boat fastened that process, whether the board wanted it or not. I choose to look at that as his mark in the United's history. "Worst season in the history"? Even if that really is, I'd take this season if it enables all of United as a whole to open the eyes to the truth. No more burying our heads in the sand, thinking things will magically get better just because we convince ourselves football goes in cycles. The answer is no. Football goes with merits.
Looking back at this whole prospect of Ralf's consultancy, may be things just weren't meant to be. Regarding players recruitment, Ralf mostly suggested Bundesliga gems, while Ten Hag seems to prefer nimble, technical players from Holland/Erendivisie (I'm not even mentioning another side that is our scouts's recommendation which consists mostly British players or trendy Premier League "proven" stars). They were all destined to clash at some points.
Rangnick's vision seems to be building a squad of 18 tireless workhorses, with an average age of 24. They are not superstars (May be just players in the Fred category) but all function like ONE BRAIN with eleven pair of legs. They would mostly press for the ball high-up on the pitch and immediately progress the ball vertically within 10 seconds. This seems good in theory and would make us a versatile squad with similar core strength to Liverpool, hence the rumours of Bundesliga gems like Nkunku, Haidara...
On the contrary, Ten Hag seems to prefer his team having fluent buildup from the back (More similar to City than Liverpool). If we believe in the transfer rumours, here is what Ten Hag wants:
- 1 DLF (De Jong)
- 1 CDM (Kante)
- 1 CB (Pau Torres)
- 1 RB (Timber)
- 1 CF (Nunez)
- 1 RW (Bergwijn, Antony)
It is not hard to picture to an extent the kind of football Ten Hag wants to build here. How successful it would be is still a question. But you can see the difference in football progression ideas of Ralf Rangnick and Erik ten Hag. With Steve McClaren and Mitchell van der Gaag as assistants, Erik predictably thinks he has not much of a use for Rangnick. That's fair game. Ralf has already fulfilled his other job to the club of listing his input on the organizational structure and players's reports (To Ten Hag) anyway.
Rangnick has no chance of being a DOF (Murtough is the closest one of our own version of a DOF), and he is not a Technical Director either (Fletcher's role). So we can kinda see the writing was on the wall when our deal with Paul Mitchell fell through. That could have been a political move from Rangnick to bring more football experts with close ties to him to the club and further consolidate his soft power. That deal falling through signaled Rangnick's failure in this game of gaining soft influence within United's organization. Ten Hag, being a man with such strong personality, will predictably have very little interaction with Rangnick, much less actually weighing Rangnick's words more than 50% of all his decisions.
There is no need for ill will towards Rangnick like I've seen in this thread. Losing the "game of thrones" or not, he is the man who genuinely wanted CHANGES at this club, which our fans have also wished for. You can say his method and antics were too drastic. But that may have been a necessary extreme to counter the over-simplified version of Vibes-FC antics from Ole's era before. This club needed changes, not patting on backs all the time. Him rocking the boat fastened that process, whether the board wanted it or not. I choose to look at that as his mark in the United's history. "Worst season in the history"? Even if that really is, I'd take this season if it enables all of United as a whole to open the eyes to the truth. No more burying our heads in the sand, thinking things will magically get better just because we convince ourselves football goes in cycles. The answer is no. Football goes with merits.
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Or a competent manager (hired at his peak) will turn things around. It will be a bit too much to expect to win the league title for a few years due to the competition and all these great managers being in the same league. And if we don't win the league title for the next few years, it would probably still be acceptable assuming city and pool keep their standard all the way.
That is the reality of Manchester United. Still looking for a quick fix.
And maybe Ten Hag will come good and lead us to the promised land. Really hope he will.
But what about all those fundamental structural problems. He is not going to be the solution to everything and they will need to be resolved....by someone.
Just a continuation of stupid decision making we’ve seen since SAF left. We appointed someone in a role he’s not known for doing and then haven’t used him in the area where his expertise actually lies. The whole thing was completely pointless and doesn’t reflect well on people who are so eager to point out they aren’t Woodward and everything will be fine now he’s gone.
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