Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

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Foxbatt said:
Agree with you and with Woodward gone Arnold has no reasons to cover for Woodward.
Ralf is not stupid and we need to know why we never played the same way as against CP in the first half?
Also as you said he highlighted the problems we have and there has been a lot of changes at the club. Without Ralf calling out this would not have happened.
Now let's see if he gets Austria playing the way he wants to play?
I also feel that Ralf treat them like professional adults while some of them have been treated with kidgloves by Ole. And when Ole tried to get Rashford to concentrate on his football, Ole got criticized.
Ralf doesn't accept any nonsense from the players.
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It will be very interesting to see how Austria does.

I liked Ralf’s straightforward speaking. It is one thing to see the players slow on the pitch. It’s another to hear the manager say that they are not fit. It’s amazing to hear a manager admit that the players ignore his directions and do as they please.
I have a difficult time understanding how anyone could blame the interim with problems like that exposed. Even still they were only 3 points out of 4th two weeks ago. Then we see in the last game what they can play like when they want.
I recall a 3 game stretch in February where they had 30 shots and scored 3 points. And these were from inside the box. It’s tough to blame the coach when there are that many missed opportunities. It’s a shame to see the wasted opportunity to claim fourth. I think those that want to blame the manager are searching hard to find a reason to ignore the simple truth.
The players just didn’t want it.
 
glazed said:
I agree the players have just refused to do what he wants and he has no other options so nobody can call him a success on the field. Where he has succeeded for me is showing who can and can't play the way they need to.
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So, I ask again - If he has succeeded in showing that, who are the players who can't? Can you name them?
 
Submarine Chief said:
So you’re saying there was another reason he was sacked?
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Genuinely not sure where you've got that from my post mate.

Solskjaer was rightly sacked for the teams performances that lead to any chance of a title challenge being over by October and not even in the top 4 by November. My point was that circa November 2021 United's season wasn't over there were still things to play for. CL qualification was very attainable and we were still in two cups, granted winning the CL was maybe a long shot but the FA Cup should have been a possibility.

The season wasn't 'trashed'.
 
stevoc said:
Because to take the Interim job Rangnick had to leave a 3 year contract in Russia. The 2 year consultancy job which he reasonably requested and the club agreed to was obviously to replace the contract until 2024 that he had with Lokomotiv.
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I know that. What I’m saying is that United knew that too, and still went on to hire him because they were not just interested in him for his managerial capabilities over six months. If they really wanted him as a manager only and were not interested at all beyond that (or only interested in his input if results on the pitch were desirable) they would’ve said “thanks for showing interest but we can’t agree on those terms” and gone with someone else, since they interviewed multiple candidates for the interim role. But they didn’t, which IMO proves my point that they were looking to start the rebuilding process early by appointing him, a renown recruitment specialist and club director, as the interim manager.

If people think that RR was signed to a 6+24 month deal off the bat only because United thought he was the ideal manager to squeeze the most out of this group of players until June and nothing else then we’re never going to agree, so I’ll just leave this as my last post as I’m just repeating myself since people seem to be completely unable to understand my point.
 
Anustart89 said:
I know that. What I’m saying is that United knew that too, and still went on to hire him because they were not just interested in him for his managerial capabilities over six months. If they really wanted him as a manager only and were not interested at all beyond that (or only interested in his input if results on the pitch were desirable) they would’ve said “thanks for showing interest but we can’t agree on those terms” and gone with someone else, since they interviewed multiple candidates for the interim role. But they didn’t, which IMO proves my point that they were looking to start the rebuilding process early by appointing him, a renown recruitment specialist and club director, as the interim manager.
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When United first approached Ralf about joining was it about being Interim manager or about being a Consultant?

I think we can all agree that back in November United were looking for an experienced Interim manager. Yes?

Whose idea was the consultancy job, United's or Rangnick's?

It's been widely reported that it was Ralf's request to have some sort of role after his stint as Interim manager (it's the reason he turned down Chelsea last season after all).

So why would United have went looking for a part time recruitment consultant mid season first and then just asked him to fill in as Interim before he starts his consultancy gig?

If people think that RR was signed to a 6+24 month deal off the bat only because United thought he was the ideal manager to squeeze the most out of this group of players until June and nothing else then we’re never going to agree, so I’ll just leave this as my last post as I’m just repeating myself since people seem to be completely unable to understand my point.
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Yes because United have gotten recruitment spot on over the last few years.

Have you entertained the idea that United thought Ralf would be a great mid-season appointment to get the team back on track but just got it wrong?
 
stevoc said:
When United first approached Ralf about joining was it about being Interim manager or about being a Consultant?

I think we can all agree that back in November United were looking for an experienced Interim manager. Yes?

Whose idea was the consultancy job, United's or Rangnick's?

It's been widely reported that it was Ralf's request to have some sort of role after his stint as Interim manager (it's the reason he turned down Chelsea last season after all).

So why would United have went looking for a part time recruitment consultant mid season first and then just asked him to fill in as Interim before he starts his consultancy gig?



Yes because United have gotten recruitment spot on over the last few years.

Have you entertained the idea that United thought Ralf would be a great mid-season appointment to get the team back on track but just got it wrong?
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They obviously approached him about being an interim manager, but the idea to have an interim manager was so they could take their time and appoint the long-term manager with the club’s chosen direction in mind.

I don’t agree with the notion that United’s sole interest in appointing the interim manager was to get the best results at the end of the 21/22 season at any cost but to get someone who would start the transition early into the kind of philosophy that Murtough & Co want for the club in the future. Like I’ve said previously, if they only wanted the best short-term results they could’ve gone with someone like Conte but they clearly didn’t go for him when he was available.

Murtough went to see Rangnick in Leipzig in 2019, don’t you think he knew the job description of the guy whose brains he was picking? Ie club director first and head coach second?

I agree with you that the consultancy was probably something that RR demanded in order to leave his three-year contract in Moscow, but like I’ve said multiple times, the club were fully within their rights to say no thanks and go with someone else if they felt that these demands didn’t align with what they wanted from the interim manager. But they said yes to those terms and appointed a manager who has mostly been working as not a manager over the interviewed candidates that presumably work as managers as opposed to other roles within the footballing structure.

It could be that they got it wrong, I’m not saying that it’s impossible, but my point would’ve been much clearer (and as I intended it) had you not chosen to not highlight the most crucial part of my post. If you had just extended the bolded passage to include one word before and the three words after then my point would’ve been clearer.

Like I’ve said, I fully believe that a) going for an interim manager in the first place and taking their time with the full-time appointment, b) going for Rangnick out of all the potential candidates, and c) still signing Rangnick to a long-term deal (regardless of results on the pitch) due to him demanding a contract beyond the interim position, shows that we were really interested in Rangnick for reasons beyond thinking that he was the best managerial candidate for the next five months, but also with a view to start the rebuilding process earlier than June 1.

Would they have liked the interim manager to win the Champions League and finish in the top four? Obviously, but I don’t think that was the only priority when they were picking among the candidates.

If you think that Rangnick specifically was signed as interim manager, even as he demanded a longer commitment, only for his ability to coach this group of players for five months with no thought about the medium to long-term future of the club then let’s just agree to disagree.
 
Hansi Fick said:
So, I ask again - If he has succeeded in showing that, who are the players who can't? Can you name them?
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No* but I bet he can. And ETH will have a clearer idea. So the summer is less likely to be wasted.

*(Of course I have an opinion. But opinions are like assholes)
 
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Anustart89 said:
They obviously approached him about being an interim manager, but the idea to have an interim manager was so they could take their time and appoint the long-term manager with the club’s chosen direction in mind.

I don’t agree with the notion that United’s sole interest in appointing the interim manager was to get the best results at the end of the 21/22 season at any cost but to get someone who would start the transition early into the kind of philosophy that Murtough & Co want for the club in the future. Like I’ve said previously, if they only wanted the best short-term results they could’ve gone with someone like Conte but they clearly didn’t go for him when he was available.

Murtough went to see Rangnick in Leipzig in 2019, don’t you think he knew the job description of the guy whose brains he was picking? Ie club director first and head coach second?

I agree with you that the consultancy was probably something that RR demanded in order to leave his three-year contract in Moscow, but like I’ve said multiple times, the club were fully within their rights to say no thanks and go with someone else if they felt that these demands didn’t align with what they wanted from the interim manager. But they said yes to those terms and appointed a manager who has mostly been working as not a manager over the interviewed candidates that presumably work as managers as opposed to other roles within the footballing structure.

It could be that they got it wrong, I’m not saying that it’s impossible, but my point would’ve been much clearer (and as I intended it) had you not chosen to not highlight the most crucial part of my post. If you had just extended the bolded passage to include one word before and the three words after then my point would’ve been clearer.

Like I’ve said, I fully believe that a) going for an interim manager in the first place and taking their time with the full-time appointment, b) going for Rangnick out of all the potential candidates, and c) still signing Rangnick to a long-term deal (regardless of results on the pitch) due to him demanding a contract beyond the interim position, shows that we were really interested in Rangnick for reasons beyond thinking that he was the best managerial candidate for the next five months, but also with a view to start the rebuilding process earlier than June 1.

Would they have liked the interim manager to win the Champions League and finish in the top four? Obviously, but I don’t think that was the only priority when they were picking among the candidates.

If you think that Rangnick specifically was signed as interim manager, even as he demanded a longer commitment, only for his ability to coach this group of players for five months with no thought about the medium to long-term future of the club then let’s just agree to disagree.
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All I'm saying is the scenario that makes the most sense to me doesn't necessarily contradict your opinion too much. I think after the club sacked Solskjaer we needed an Interim manager obviously, the club didn't want someone who would want a 2-3 year deal as manager because they wanted to wait until the summer to appoint a permanent manager (that I agree with). So they set about to hire someone experienced who could come in and steady the ship and get the team back on track but wouldn't be expecting to be in the managers seat for 2-3 tears. Murtagh knowing Rangnick obviously played a part in his hiring and when Ralf asked for a 2 year consultancy gig the club probably weren't averse to it, couldn't hurt to have someone with his experience on board after all.

So in a nutshell I think the club simply wanted an experienced Interim and gave Ralf his 2 year Consultancy job to get him on board as Murtagh was probably pushing for him.

If you disagree no worries mate.
 
stevoc said:
All I'm saying is the scenario that makes the most sense to me doesn't necessarily contradict your opinion too much. I think after the club sacked Solskjaer we needed an Interim manager obviously, the club didn't want someone who would want a 2-3 year deal as manager because they wanted to wait until the summer to appoint a permanent manager (that I agree with). So they set about to hire someone experienced who could come in and steady the ship and get the team back on track but wouldn't be expecting to be in the managers seat for 2-3 tears. Murtagh knowing Rangnick obviously played a part in his hiring and when Ralf asked for a 2 year consultancy gig the club probably weren't averse to it, couldn't hurt to have someone with his experience on board after all.

So in a nutshell I think the club simply wanted an experienced Interim and gave Ralf his 2 year Consultancy job to get him on board as Murtagh was probably pushing for him.

If you disagree no worries mate.
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Nah I think we’re pretty much on the same page, just with me adding that the reason we specifically went with Rangnick over the other candidates in the interim role is because we didn’t want the interim appointment to be short term only but with a view to start the transition process (towards RR’s style of football which Murtough probably wants to emulate at United) at the same time.

Ideally, they would’ve wanted the interim to get top four obviously but I don’t think that was the only priority, which was the argument that I was trying to make from the beginning. Cheers for a normal discussion without anyone calling the other a Rangnite or snowflake, as is customary on here these days :)
 
Anustart89 said:
Nah I think we’re pretty much on the same page, just with me adding that the reason we specifically went with Rangnick over the other candidates in the interim role is because we didn’t want the interim appointment to be short term only but with a view to start the transition process (towards RR’s style of football which Murtough probably wants to emulate at United) at the same time.

Ideally, they would’ve wanted the interim to get top four obviously but I don’t think that was the only priority, which was the argument that I was trying to make from the beginning. Cheers for a normal discussion without anyone calling the other a Rangnite or snowflake, as is customary on here these days :)
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No worries mate.
 
I don’t buy all this the players aren’t listening to him rubbish. If that was the case then why not bench the offenders? He’s the manager and this makes him look incredibly weak.
 
stevoc said:
Genuinely not sure where you've got that from my post mate.

Solskjaer was rightly sacked for the teams performances that lead to any chance of a title challenge being over by October and not even in the top 4 by November. My point was that circa November 2021 United's season wasn't over there were still things to play for. CL qualification was very attainable and we were still in two cups, granted winning the CL was maybe a long shot but the FA Cup should have been a possibility.

The season wasn't 'trashed'.
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One could say that in November that there is enough time left that the season isn’t “Trashed” for those in last place. But we know that the odds are looking bleak.
I would think that it takes quite a lot for a team to decide to sack the manager that early in the season. Usually it’s because they see things spiraling downward without much hope of recovery.
In essence they believe that if they stick with the current manager the season is certainly lost.
It seemed you didn’t agree with that concept and perhaps there might be another reason why they went to such extraordinary lengths.
 
Submarine Chief said:
One could say that in November that there is enough time left that the season isn’t “Trashed” for those in last place. But we know that the odds are looking bleak.
I would think that it takes quite a lot for a team to decide to sack the manager that early in the season. Usually it’s because they see things spiraling downward without much hope of recovery.
In essence they believe that if they stick with the current manager the season is certainly lost.
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It probably isn't most seasons (look at Newcastle) so it definitely wasn't for another team in 7th 3 points off 4th and still with a chance of winning 2 other trophies.

Submarine Chief said:
It seemed you didn’t agree with that concept and perhaps there might be another reason why they went to such extraordinary lengths.
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No you've just misinterpreted my post mate.
 
Garethw said:
I don’t buy all this the players aren’t listening to him rubbish. If that was the case then why not bench the offenders? He’s the manager and this makes him look incredibly weak.
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Self sabotage? Putting all the players on display is showing all the weaknesses we don't want as a club. If he puts players like Maguire on the bench and Rashford out of the squad then all would be forgotten and they'd be given a clean slate for next season. Now every player is under the microscope with no place to hide.

He now has given the next manager the argument of getting rid of them or at least signing better players for the positions. Ralf has basically came in and done a hatchet job which is going to force the club into making decisions they don't like to make. It's well past time.
 
stevoc said:
It probably isn't most seasons (look at Newcastle) so it definitely wasn't for another team in 7th 3 points off 4th and still with a chance of winning 2 other trophies.

You are really good with that hindsight aren’t ya? Or are you saying that back in November you were prognosticating such a result? Using one example to defy the odds isn’t much of an argument.


No you've just misinterpreted my post mate.
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Well since you were using such specific terms like “trashed” then I suppose you are right. It is an industry standard after all.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Self sabotage? Putting all the players on display is showing all the weaknesses we don't want as a club. If he puts players like Maguire on the bench and Rashford out of the squad then all would be forgotten and they'd be given a clean slate for next season. Now every player is under the microscope with no place to hide.

He now has given the next manager the argument of getting rid of them or at least signing better players for the positions. Ralf has basically came in and done a hatchet job which is going to force the club into making decisions they don't like to make. It's well past time.
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:lol:
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Self sabotage? Putting all the players on display is showing all the weaknesses we don't want as a club. If he puts players like Maguire on the bench and Rashford out of the squad then all would be forgotten and they'd be given a clean slate for next season. Now every player is under the microscope with no place to hide.

He now has given the next manager the argument of getting rid of them or at least signing better players for the positions. Ralf has basically came in and done a hatchet job which is going to force the club into making decisions they don't like to make. It's well past time.
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So in this theory Ralf's took it upon himself to force his employers to do something they don't like to do and presumably wouldn't be happy with him for doing?

And why would he do this exactly?
 
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amolbhatia50k said:
Not really. The fact that you think that just goes to how we are used to a complete lack of foresight and planning at this football club. You have to have plans in place right now to execute in the summer so that you aren't running around like listless fools come July with our supposed targets having been bagged by other clubs.

The last few games of the season aren't really that important. It's crucial to get our summer recruitment right now. And just because someone talks about the latter publicly it does not mean that's all they are focused on 100 per cent of their time.
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Oh, come on. Did I write that what happens next doesn't matter, or that no one should be thinking about that right now? What I'm saying is RRs - and the players' - primary focus right now should be the last two games. Which will decide whether we play in Europe next year. Which seems to me a good deal more important to the club's future than whether or not RR talk in press conferences about things he's already said, and which won't help that focus. It's challenging enough as it is to avoid the players having their minds on next year already.
 
No one think that RR remit was changed somewhat?

I mean we will never know for sure but he kind of said, in my words, that he was told to keep the status quo instead of implementing the gen gen style. Also kind of hinted imo to having to play certain players.

Not saying this is gospel but maybe his remit did change to a complete restructure focus regardless of position? A sort of write off this season and use it to ensure we get better manager, players, backroom staff etc.

Again just assumption on my part but I was convinced Poch was headed to us. I think not getting in Conte was also dictated by us wanting Poch. I think RR time has made us rethink that and go for ETH.

IF and I mean IF that is remotely true then maybe RR has been a bigger success than we think?
 
Roane said:
No one think that RR remit was changed somewhat?

I mean we will never know for sure but he kind of said, in my words, that he was told to keep the status quo instead of implementing the gen gen style. Also kind of hinted imo to having to play certain players.

Not saying this is gospel but maybe his remit did change to a complete restructure focus regardless of position? A sort of write off this season and use it to ensure we get better manager, players, backroom staff etc.

Again just assumption on my part but I was convinced Poch was headed to us. I think not getting in Conte was also dictated by us wanting Poch. I think RR time has made us rethink that and go for ETH.

IF and I mean IF that is remotely true then maybe RR has been a bigger success than we think?
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No his focus has always been on pitch results this season as he has stated multiple times. His minor role going forward just reiterates it.
 
Garethw said:
I don’t buy all this the players aren’t listening to him rubbish. If that was the case then why not bench the offenders? He’s the manager and this makes him look incredibly weak.
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This has been addressed by some journalists on Athletic affiliated podcasts, and I think its fair logic. Managers, especially interim ones who haven't got their own players in/pre-seasons and are basically trying to firefight, would always turn to the experienced players.
Mitten said this I think, so many people are saying "why dont you just bench them and play the kids, it can't get worse" but that's not true. It could actually get a feckton worse and also scar their development mentally when making a bow again at OT. Ralf eluded to this himself saying its always better to bed in youngsters when the team is doing well, not when it's in a crisis.

Ralf opting for the likes of Jones > Baily when we had injuries, or turning to Matic of late and Mata to come on in games shows he is doing what is rational in turning to experience. It's the lesser risk all things considered. We've had a lot of unavailable players or players shit in training, together with those who are just in prolonged poor form that predates his employment with the club. There's little any interim can do in that regard.
 
Leftback99 said:
No his focus has always been on pitch results this season as he has stated multiple times. His minor role going forward just reiterates it.
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I agree he started making those statements. However the on pitch results statements came moreso after his initial statements about trying/implementing a different style.

We saw early attempts to change but then settled on the status quo.
 
stevoc said:
So in this theory Ralf's took it upon himself to force his employers to do something they don't like to do and presumably wouldn't be happy with him for doing?

And why would he do this exactly?
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To highlite the total revamp needed at the club and not just papering over cracks which is what we've been doing for way too long? Ralfs comments on needing 10 players isn't off the cuff. It's pretty obvious he's saying the whole squad needs ripping up and starting again.

What's Ralf got to lose? He's came out in public and said things that if the board choose to ignore will be on them. He's covered his arse. On the other hand, if they do listen and it helps get the club back on track then his comments will be justified. It's a win win situation for him no matter how small the contribution people think he's had.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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I sincerely hope that after that abject team performance, Mejbri wasn't targeted as he did more running around in the last few minutes than the whole team put together. He was the least of our worries that night. I don't where these quotes come from but if he was the only one consigned to the U-23s, then something ain't right.

Sounds like more BS.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
To highlite the total revamp needed at the club and not just papering over cracks which is what we've been doing for way too long? Ralfs comments on needing 10 players isn't off the cuff. It's pretty obvious he's saying the whole squad needs ripping up and starting again.
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Yeah but why would Ralf have such a strong altruistic concern for United's future prospects at the risk of his own job and upsetting his new employers?

Forevergiggs1 said:
What's Ralf got to lose? He's came out in public and said things that if the board choose to ignore will be on them. He's covered his arse. On the other hand, if they do listen and it helps get the club back on track then his comments will be justified. It's a win win situation for him no matter how small the contribution people think he's had.
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His job maybe? Or at least a position of influence within the club after his Interim gig is over.
 


Gonna miss him when he's not doing press conferences and interviews anymore :lol:, his candor is a throwback to LVG.

Been good to have someone at the club willing to not sugar coat anything and point things out without any interest in being PR friendly
 
Rolaholic said:


Gonna miss him when he's not doing press conferences and interviews anymore :lol:, his candor is a throwback to LVG.

Been good to have someone at the club willing to not sugar coat anything and point things out without any interest in being PR friendly
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And yet, people continue drivel le that he has no influence
 
Rolaholic said:


Gonna miss him when he's not doing press conferences and interviews anymore :lol:, his candor is a throwback to LVG.

Been good to have someone at the club willing to not sugar coat anything and point things out without any interest in being PR friendly
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Now it all makes sense.

Ralf asked for an attacker. The Board refused and said: 'We have Lingard, use him.'

Lingard ended up staying, which he didn't want. Ralf ended up with a player he didn't want. The rest, as they say, is history.
 
VP89 said:
And yet, people continue drivel le that he has no influence
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The perception of Ralf will change long-term, I'm convinced of it. It's just that right now a lot of people cannot see the forest for the trees. Short-termists can only see from league table finish to league table finish. They see the potential of no Europe as some slippery slope, however, not making Europe is a symptom and not a cause, of a decline. The decline is what Rangnick is addressing, namely the long-term structure of the club as a whole, in terms of sporting project and recruitment both in non-playing and playing staff. League table finishes and European pursuits will arrive as a consequence of doing things right as a club.
 
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