Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

[Bobcat]

They need to hear this in private. Berating them in public has not worked because it never works. Their performance is worse than it was under Ole. When the team had a brief run of unconvincing wins, RR took the credit but now that results have gone south, he is throwing players under the bus. Any set of players left behind will be even more guarded against the new manager, to prevent their reputations from being tarnished even further.
RR has made it harder for ETH to get group buy-in for his ideas.


If you scream and shout about how poor your players are then which other team will take them? This is transfer strategy 101. I'm surprised how little criticism RR gets for his childish rant about requiring 10 new players. You should be glad that he's just a consultant and not the DoF.

You dont think they've heard it in private? Pretty sure both Ole and RR have told them plenty of times. Normally i am against it, and i hated it when Jose did it because he was undoubtedly also responsible for the bad atmosphere, but when you have a group of players who down tools for one manager and dont bother to pick them up again for the new guy its gone way, way to far.

These feckers are unbelivably priveliged, and they cant be bothered to put in the effort because "they dont like the new manager". No feck that. How about showing some profesionall integrity? How about playing for the club and the fans?

If a managers acts like an arse he gets called out and raked over the coals in the media, i dont see why these players are such delicate flowers that they cant endure public scrutiny. And RR's complaints isnt about them being bereft of talent. Its about bad attitude and lack of effort and discipline.

 

[devips]

The most absurd allegation i've heard is that rangnick hasn't motivated players to turn up and has instead called them out publicly.

Shouldn't the players be motivated themselves enough while wearing the utd shirt ? how about a bit of self respect ? Got pasted by the dippers at ot but didn't want to show up to take revenge at anfield. So rangnick called them shite, what do they do ? They go onto the pitch and prove him right. If my boss called me shit i'd be motivated to embarrass him infront of his bosses by showing how wrong he was.

And some of the fans piling on rangnick are shameless. And before you get your tities in a twist, no i am not saying he's without blame but the greatest share of the blame lays at the feet of the players and the board and not rangnick.

The bolded part was true of Ole too, then?

 

[ayushreddevil9]

You dont think they've heard it in private? Pretty sure both Ole and RR have told them plenty of times. Normally i am against it, and i hated it when Jose did it because he was undoubtedly also responsible for the bad atmosphere, but when you have a group of players who down tools for one manager and dont bother to pick them up again for the new guy its gone way, way to far.

These feckers are unbelivably priveliged, and they cant be bothered to put in the effort because "they dont like the new manager". No feck that. How about showing some profesionall integrity? How about playing for the club and the fans?

If a managers acts like an arse he gets called out and raked over the coals in the media, i dont see why these players are such delicate flowers that they cant endure public scrutiny. And RR's complaints isnt about them being bereft of talent. Its about bad attitude and lack of effort and discipline.

Nothing could get them fighting for a place in the top 4. Seeing Liverpool and City fighting for top honors, their players taking cheeky digs at us, humiliation while playing against them, laughing stock everywhere.. nothing could make these lazy useless overpaid divas fight.

Its clear most don't associate themselves proudly with Manchester United and are only concerned about their paycheck. That's why they don't give a feck even though the name of utd is in the mud. Most even know that they are on their way out so why even bother?

 

[#07]

The bolded part was true of Ole too, then?

Yes and the reason why I don't really care about Ralf calling the players out is how they knifed Ole in the back.

Ole was the nicest coach these lads could ask for. Whatever went wrong he took the blame. When their agents and entourages were trashing the club, leaking stuff about him, Ole just smiled and took it.

What was the response of these players?

To get him sacked.

Neither the carrot or the stick work for the egos at Old Trafford. Be nice to them they sack it off. Be tough with them they sack it off. At some point you just gotta accept its the players not the coach.

 

[tomaldinho1]

If the higher win ratio meant we potentially won 1 or 2 cups then the win ratio.

It's obvious why the cup matches are being ignored here and it's because our PPG has been slightly higher in the league. Yes our PPG under Ralf is slightly higher than the form that got Solskjaer sacked but it's also came in more games and in more games against the bottom half sides. That and slightly higher xg are the only tangible positives of his reign that don't involve his potential future role or entertaining press conferences.

Now us being so awful under Ralf isn't all his fault and probably not even mostly his fault. But there's nothing to lose in admitting we've been just as atrocious under Ralf as we were under Ole this season.

More that cups are so difficult to compare particularly because Ole being first would have had earlier rounds and group stages in most and, let’s be honest, we aren’t beating Pool or City in a knockout game given how bad we’ve been and the CL was always way beyond us so I don’t get how it’s relevant?

I don’t genuinely get your point here, you want to say Ragnick hadn’t been great which is generally agreed but won’t accept he’s actually been a slight improvement (and that’s how bad the situation is) on what came before this season.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I think it is reasonable to argue that "things being shit for an even longer period of time" qualifies as "things getting worse."

You’ve literally quoted me but changed what I said. I’m disappointed.

 

[RedC]

Are the players thick?

Yes.

 

[tomaldinho1]

That is not a fact, that is an assumption. The fact is when RR took over we were only 3 points off Top 4 and were about to face lower half table clubs, fast forward to the end of April we are 6 points off Top 4 with only 2 wins in last 2 months. Let's face it RR tenure as manager has been nothing but disaster, he was brought in to steady the ship and assess the players instead he burnt the whole ship down. Let's just hope his tenure as consultant will fare better cause that is where he's good at.

Ok but you get it’s as close to facts as we can get. I could quite feasibly say given the scale of the implosion with Ole, we’d actually be even worse off than 1.41 ppg given the drop off but that’s an actual number based in reality so that’s what I worked with. Agree on the bolded point.

 

[Zen86]

The most absurd allegation i've heard is that rangnick hasn't motivated players to turn up and has instead called them out publicly.

Shouldn't the players be motivated themselves enough while wearing the utd shirt ? how about a bit of self respect ? Got pasted by the dippers at ot but didn't want to show up to take revenge at anfield. So rangnick called them shite, what do they do ? They go onto the pitch and prove him right. If my boss called me shit i'd be motivated to embarrass him infront of his bosses by showing how wrong he was.

And some of the fans piling on rangnick are shameless. And before you get your tities in a twist, no i am not saying he's without blame but the greatest share of the blame lays at the feet of the players and the board and not rangnick.

The reality is you would probably sulk and start looking for another job.

 

[Stacks]

You're going to have to explain how?


Of those I would have preferred Valverde than Ragnick but otherwise, no difference. Favre imploded and he's just a counter merchant, Blanc has been out of elite football for ages and Garcia is simply not good enough, at least Ragnick has the added background which we might actually utilise as a consultant.


Please check your maths. Ole was sacked with United in 8th on 17 points after 12 games, if his ppg was 1.95 we would have had 24 points and been 4th.


Agreed but bolded bit is exactly the point. I haven't seen anyone on here praising Ragnick as a great coach and someone we should back long term, what I have seen is people saying he was worse than Ole which based on this season isn't true. Unless you fabricate numbers like @DSG

no one could be worse than that season start

 

[VidaRed]

The bolded part was true of Ole too, then?

Of course but ole shares more of the blame because this is ole's squad trained in his methods.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

If my boss called me shit i'd be motivated to embarrass him infront of his bosses by showing how wrong he was.

If this were true then management books would advise people to call their employees shit.

 

[VidaRed]

The reality is you would probably sulk and start looking for another job.

Not really if the said job is paying me more than i would get anywhere else.

 

[VidaRed]

If this were true then management books would advise people to call their employees shit.

Ole didn't call these same players shit but they still threw him under the bus, rangnick is calling them shit and he's still being thrown under the bus (although an argument can be made that he only called them shit after they had thrown him under the bus). Both methods failed with these players and we all know that these players are not utd quality so why should anyone back the players ?

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

There's a simpler explanation, which is that the players didn't throw Ole under the bus.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Ole didn't call these same players shit but they still threw him under the bus, rangnick is calling them shit and he's still being thrown under the bus (although an argument can be made that he only called them shit after they had thrown him under the bus). Both methods failed with these players and we all know that these players are not utd quality so why should anyone back the players ?

A team performing poorly doesn't have to mean that anyone has been thrown under the bus, neither the manager by the players nor the players by the manager. It just means things are not working out well. Which, broadly speaking, usually means the manager is not doing a particularly good job, if it's not just a spell of bad form.

 

[VidaRed]

There's a simpler explanation, which is that the players didn't throw Ole under the bus.

And simple answer to that is that then they're not utd quality. Should be sold even then.

 

[VidaRed]

A team performing poorly doesn't have to mean that anyone has been thrown under the bus, neither the manager by the players nor the players by the manager. It just means things are not working out well. Which, broadly speaking, usually means the manager is not doing a particularly good job, if it's not just a spell of bad form.

I am well aware about your dislike for rangnick. You've been on his case even before his first game here.

 

[Hansi Fick]

I am well aware about your dislike for rangnick. You've been on his case even before his first game here.

Yes, I dislike Rangnick.
But my point is in general. The players didn't throw Ole under the bus either, as you argued. Teams and footballers can perform poorly or badly without any malice involved. The overall performance of the team though is the manager's number one responsibility. But in the specific case of an interim, like Rangnick is, the culpability of the manager is rather limited. It's not Rangnick's mess, overall.
He still didn't do a good interim job, which in my opinion is mostly down to his lack of quality assistant coaches. He was only able to recruit this Armas clown, probably due to the shortness of the job, and that surely represents a good part of why he wasn't able to coach the team better.

Bottom line is, no need to overthink things. Things will be different from summer on.

 

[Maticmaker]

If this were true then management books would advise people to call their employees shit.

Many do, the style is called Theory X management, basically it says "metaphorically... kick everybody's a**e everyday whether they deserve it or not ...and believe it or not, in some desperate/ 'going to hell in a handcart' type situations (e.g.like avoiding relegation) it apparently works ! In the forces its akin to something called 'company punishment'... i.e. one person fouls up and everybody gets their a**e kicked.

 

[tenpoless]

Yes, I dislike Rangnick.
But my point is in general. The players didn't throw Ole under the bus either, as you argued.

The players didnt throw Ole under the bus in public because he was always nice to them, for them to do that will destroy their images but even so, right when it seemed really hard to turn things around, they stopped trying for Ole. That is more or less stabbing Ole behind his back, they know he was a goner anyway. Now the same thing happens to Ralf, they know he will leave that manager position. Compared to Ole he is rather outspoken about the stinky attitude of the players but got the backing to do so, thats how he wins. Ole coudlnt afford to do that and it is not his character.

 

[Long Time Red]

Yes, I dislike Rangnick.
But my point is in general. The players didn't throw Ole under the bus either, as you argued. Teams and footballers can perform poorly or badly without any malice involved. The overall performance of the team though is the manager's number one responsibility. But in the specific case of an interim, like Rangnick is, the culpability of the manager is rather limited. It's not Rangnick's mess, overall.
He still didn't do a good interim job, which in my opinion is mostly down to his lack of quality assistant coaches. He was only able to recruit this Armas clown, probably due to the shortness of the job, and that surely represents a good part of why he wasn't able to coach the team better.

Bottom line is, no need to overthink things. Things will be different from summer on.

Nonsense! The Bayern players threw Niko Kovac under the bus and then decided they fancied playing for Hansi Flick.

Nothing to do with the quality of coaching or tactics.

 

[Matt851]

Hes given a 2 year consultancy role after his 6 month interim. You tell me what remit holds greater weight.

Not really evidence, he is currently interim manager and as such his job is to win as many games as possible etc. His consultancy role after isn't defined but as a consultant he is unlikely to have any real authority and will provably just offer advice on specific matter

 

[Lyng]

Bottom line is, no need to overthink things. Things will be different from summer on.

That really depends on how much power Ten Hag is given, especially when it comes to getting rid of players.
Anyone claiming none of our players have downed tools and refused to follow Rangnicks instructions clearly havent watched any United matches this season.

 

[AltiUn]

That really depends on how much power Ten Hag is given, especially when it comes to getting rid of players.
Anyone claiming none of our players have downed tools and refused to follow Rangnicks instructions clearly havent watched any United matches this season.

Agree with this part, Hannibal's 5 minute cameo was enough to show how little effort the players have been putting in.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Agree with this part, Hannibal's 5 minute cameo was enough to show how little effort the players have been putting in.

Morale is clearly shot and most of them dont give a sh*t. Thats on the overall running of the club over the last decade as much as one or even several managers. Its clear Ralk likes the charisma and engagement to motivate the team, in hindsight it would have been better to bring him in to a clear role on the football decision making and let Carrick or someone carry on. The fact that things keep going from bad to worse doesnt inspire me that we yet have a decent decision making structure, not least when Fletch is still involved.

 

[romufc]

The fact that things keep going from bad to worse doesnt inspire me that we yet have a decent decision making structure, not least when Fletch is still involved.

Are you trying to say that as long as Fletcher is involved, our structure is going to be rubbish?

Clearly you have ignored the fact that we have got a DoF, cleared spaces in scouting dept for a deputy sporting director or head of recruitment.

 

[Zen86]

Tbf no matter at what stage in life, you cant afford spending time motivating people, to do the bare minimum.
Not in sports, not in a regular job or anywhere. The motivating factor is a sprinkle on top, that extra juice.

These players arent doing shit. The lack of effort is well documented both on the training ground and the pitch.
Go back and watch Ronaldo's interview and his thoughts on the youngsters. The squad is rotten and needs an axeman to break it up.
Much in the same way SAF shipped out the pubcrawlers. No manager, dead or alive can sort this group out.

Can’t agree with that at all. Motivating your players is the bedrock of sports management and always has been. Blindly expecting your players to be up for it just because, is bad management. I very much doubt any successful football manager in history has worked that way.

 

[crossy1686]

If this were true then management books would advise people to call their employees shit.

It depends on the work environment and the personality of the person your addressing. You can’t walk around an office calling your employees shit but I’ve certainly managed people who needed to be told straight that they’d fecked up, and responded a lot better to that than an arm around the shoulder.

 

[crossy1686]

The players should be worried, they didn’t take him seriously and they’re going to be rewarded by having their United careers ended. When you’re unprofessional that’s what happens I’m afraid

 

[Zen86]

It depends on the work environment and the personality of the person your addressing. You can’t walk around an office calling your employees shit but I’ve certainly managed people who needed to be told straight that they’d fecked up, and responded a lot better to that than an arm around the shoulder.

Did you call a company-wide conference to tell everyone how shit your employees were? I don’t think they would have responded very well to that, but that’s basically what we’re talking about here.

 

[mctrials23]

When players aren't making even the basic effort during games to track runners, sprint for the ball or to get into a better positions in defence and attack then they are not doing their job. Call it what you like but "throwing the manager under the bus" is pretty accurate. Saying "things didn't work out and its no ones fault" or "its the managers fault to motivate them" ignores the fact that there are very very few successful businesses where the tail wags the dog.

There is a reason why you can't have your rank and file workers dictating how the company operates.

All of the best teams in the world have something very much in common. The manager is more important than any one player. If Klopp wanted to get rid of Salah tomorrow I think that Liverpool would pack Mo's bags for him. If Pep wanted to get rid of De Bruyne City would do the same.

When players know that they have the ultimate control and power over the managers job its almost impossible for them to do a good job.

Yes a managers job is to motivate the players but how the hell do you do that when they don't even make a token effort to meet you half way. The players have never looked like they are playing like RR has asked them to outside of about 35 minutes in our first game. Its a two way street. The players have to give the manager a chance and the manager has to do his best to get the most from the players. The players have never looked like they are trying even remotely hard in 90% of our games.

When your players seem entirely happy to miss out on CL football instead of putting the effort in to suck up their egos and do what they are told you have a fecking big problem. I can see why Ole survived so long and Mourinho didn't. Ole was seemingly happy to let the lunatics run the asylum and Mourinho doesn't suffer fools.

The modern footballer is pathetic in so many ways.

 

[El Jefe]

Are we still making excuses for motor mouth Ralf?

One of the easiest things to do is to galvanise a shit dressing room but he somehow did the unthinkable and made things even worse in a matter of weeks. We might have a bunch of cnuts as players but they've always responded positively to new managers. In fact the only squad we had that didn't was Fergie's squad to Moyes but that was understandable and none of the current players were part of that.

Shit coach, shit man manager but world class in press conferences. Bravo

 

[mctrials23]

Did you call a company-wide conference to tell everyone how shit your employees were? I don’t think they would have responded very well to that, but that’s basically what we’re talking about here.

If your employees are demonstrably shit at their job and not putting in even a basic level of professional effort then calling them out for being shit is fair game. In fact, I tell a lie, if this was a normal company you would just fire them all. The players are currently a disgrace.

 

[Hansi Fick]

When players aren't making even the basic effort during games to track runners, sprint for the ball or to get into a better positions in defence and attack then they are not doing their job. Call it what you like but "throwing the manager under the bus" is pretty accurate. Saying "things didn't work out and its no ones fault" or "its the managers fault to motivate them" ignores the fact that there are very very few successful businesses where the tail wags the dog.

There is a reason why you can't have your rank and file workers dictating how the company operates.

All of the best teams in the world have something very much in common. The manager is more important than any one player. If Klopp wanted to get rid of Salah tomorrow I think that Liverpool would pack Mo's bags for him. If Pep wanted to get rid of De Bruyne City would do the same.

When players know that they have the ultimate control and power over the managers job its almost impossible for them to do a good job.

Yes a managers job is to motivate the players but how the hell do you do that when they don't even make a token effort to meet you half way. The players have never looked like they are playing like RR has asked them to outside of about 35 minutes in our first game. Its a two way street. The players have to give the manager a chance and the manager has to do his best to get the most from the players. The players have never looked like they are trying even remotely hard in 90% of our games.

When your players seem entirely happy to miss out on CL football instead of putting the effort in to suck up their egos and do what they are told you have a fecking big problem. I can see why Ole survived so long and Mourinho didn't. Ole was seemingly happy to let the lunatics run the asylum and Mourinho doesn't suffer fools.

The modern footballer is pathetic in so many ways.

If your employees are demonstrably shit at their job and not putting in even a basic level of professional effort then calling them out for being shit is fair game. In fact, I tell a lie, if this was a normal company you would just fire them all. The players are currently a disgrace.

If I was your employee I'd spit in your coffee everyday. There you go, boss.

 

[mctrials23]

If I was your employee I'd spit in your coffee everyday. There you go, boss.

If you were shit at your job and not putting in any effort I would have sacked you. You can go and spit in someone elses coffee or perhaps you will find another job where they treat you like a special snowflake when you aren't up to scratch and your shit attitude and output will magically improve. Either way I wouldn't care because you wouldn't be my problem at that point.

 

[Zen86]

If you were shit at your job and not putting in any effort I would have sacked you. You can go and spit in someone elses coffee or perhaps you will find another job where they treat you like a special snowflake when you aren't up to scratch and your shit attitude and output will magically improve. Either way I wouldn't care because you wouldn't be my problem at that point.

In this instance, you can’t sack them. So you’d continue calling them shit and they’d continue to spit in your coffee. I’m sure your superiors would pat you on the back and tell you job well done for that.

 

[Kaos]

Are we still making excuses for motor mouth Ralf?

One of the easiest things to do is to galvanise a shit dressing room but he somehow did the unthinkable and made things even worse in a matter of weeks. We might have a bunch of cnuts as players but they've always responded positively to new managers. In fact the only squad we had that didn't was Fergie's squad to Moyes but that was understandable and none of the current players were part of that.

Shit coach, shit man manager but world class in press conferences. Bravo

The same dressing room that has been a trainwreck for three managers now? Ralf is by no means a great coach, but he's not the biggest problem at United.

 

[georgipep]

If you were shit at your job and not putting in any effort I would have sacked you. You can go and spit in someone elses coffee or perhaps you will find another job where they treat you like a special snowflake when you aren't up to scratch and your shit attitude and output will magically improve. Either way I wouldn't care because you wouldn't be my problem at that point.

You come across as incredibly naive. There is a reason why people management is a very important part of management, not only in sports but in every business.

Firing most of your employees would just mean business stops. And while you can pat yourself on the back for how "you are saying it like it is", it will be catastrophic for business.

"Bite off your nose to spite your face"

 

[Smores]

Are we still making excuses for motor mouth Ralf?

One of the easiest things to do is to galvanise a shit dressing room but he somehow did the unthinkable and made things even worse in a matter of weeks. We might have a bunch of cnuts as players but they've always responded positively to new managers. In fact the only squad we had that didn't was Fergie's squad to Moyes but that was understandable and none of the current players were part of that.

Shit coach, shit man manager but world class in press conferences. Bravo

Top 4 was always a long shot yet some of you now treat it as a given for an interim.

How emotional some of you lot seem to be against Ralf really undermines your objectivity.The rest of us don't really give a feck about him but we can recognise a shit hand when we see it.

A shit squad incapable of anything but counter football with it's only real counter threat broken to the point of being unusable.

A 37 year old striker, Cavani basically done, Rashford done, Greenwood unavailable. Sancho struggling to adapt and Elanga not really ready. Then you wonder why we're shit jeez