The difference is in that "we" vs "they, the players". Also the difference in approach between Ole and Ralf
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
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There are obviously a number of factors that have made it a difficult job but I just think he has still underperformed even given those
Club media actively promoting this snippet from Ralf's press conference. If Ralf's being cut off come June it'd be weird to be pushing this on club channels.
It was mostly opinioned garbage dressed as truth, without trying to put any context around the whole situation.
The squad is unmanageable which was obvious as early as Ralf's first few training sessions based on all the leaks. And then he lost a few players and got nobody in the January transfer window when midfielders were available for as little as £5m.
If you look at the points per game in the PL, despite the fact we've had all our difficult fixtures, bar Chelsea at home, it's pretty close between Ralf and OGS - 24 from 14 for the previous failure after three years and millions spent and 26 from 18 for Ralf after some absolutely dreadful showings.
My argument has never been that Ralf is some genius manager but people on here are so obviously trying to lie their way to their point, it's absolutely bizarre. This, after some of the same people spent 3 years preaching time and patience for the previous failure without any qualifications for the job.
It's only there if we aren't shit, which we are. It's frustrating but the reality is we have more issues in our squad than our opponents fighting for top 4.
Spurs and Arsenal have several players having decent seasons where you'd struggle on ours. De Gea and Ronaldo are the only two for us and yet look in their threads.
Two of Rashford, Bruno, and Sancho would have needed to hit top form to get top 4. Is the expectation that Rangnick should made that happen? For me that's harsh but just an opinion.
Nah not having that
Thats the thing though. Football shares little in common with classic businesses in certain areas. Normally you would be completely correct but United have managed to maintain revenues despite flushing huge amount of money down the drain and failing to really compete for over a decade. With a club of our size and status imagine how those revenues would look if we didn't waste vast sums, made money from trophies and had a larger global appeal as a result. Its not quite as simple as number in spreadsheet for player values.
The complete lack of success on the pitch and the weak performances from so many of our players has already reduced their value massively and we overpay for players as a result. Both in transfer fees and salaries. I think that if we sold our entire first team at this moment in time we would get about £200m with the vast majority of that coming from Sancho and Fernandes. We are also in a position currently where a large chunk of players are leaving at the end of the season anyway.
Essentially the club has two options.
Accept that the current way of running the club is awful and doesn't deliver value to any part of the business and we take the short term hit in the value of players/wasted salaries to improve long term prospects.
Try to make the best out of this mess and most likely spend the next decade in the same mire until United truly do become irrelevant as other clubs improve and get bought out and generally run themselves a lot better than United.
I truly believe that if we get even a sniff of being a well run club with an upward trajectory it won't be that hard to go back to the top. Currently its just a perfect storm of overpaid and entitled players who don't see any value in working their arses off for the club. Given the choice between shaping up and putting in the work to be part of something good and getting sidelined, most players will pick up their game. It just needs that structure in place that all the best clubs have. Good manager, a motivated core of players and money to spend. I think we currently have 2 out of the 3.
Ten Hag needs a proper structure for recruitment and Rangnick can help deliver that.
Ralf has dealt with it arguably too openly but thats only of late where hes exposed the players, post internationals. By that time they had long ignored him anyway.
Its not an excuse at this stage. These players have chewed up and spat out every iteration of permanent managers, its clear where the problem is.
Why would he be getting cut off?
Naive and childish
I think it is pretty clear, or should be, that it is on players. Managers have been doing everything in their power.
Excuses? Don't need any excuses. I feel sorry for him having to deal with pretenders in the team.
Easiest thing to galvanise? Are you aware about what is happening in the dressing room? I am not for calling people out in media. But some of this players deserve that. They have been nothing but shocking and only there to collect paycheck.
Well exactly considering the state we were in as you correctly pointed out before Xmas, bad enough to get a manager who'd just signed a new 3 year contract sacked. I don't think it's a huge ask that form should have improved enough to push us into 4th. By the end of this clusterfeck of a season we could and probably will finish 9-12 points off 4th. Despite having only been 3 points off in December.
Made them play better? No Ralf doesn't seem the type that's good with man management for a start. But in some cases he certainly hasn't helped, case in point Rashford in particular. From day one Ralf decided Rashford was a right winger despite never performing well there. So he basically wrote off a player who's contributed 70+ goals and assists over the last 2 years from the left to allow Sancho a free run on the left (despite being signed for the right). I think Jadon has 3 goals and 2 assists from the left under Ralf so I'm not sure that experiment was worth it to unbalance the team and marginalise one of our most productive players over the last few years.
Anybody know if ten hag even wants ralf to stop on at United. Or doesn't he have the choice
At the weekend, BT Sport were heavily pushing the narrative that Rangnick has nothing more than a paper consultancy.
In fairness to them, given how our club is run, nobody would be shocked if Rangnick's consultancy turns into a conference call once in a blue moon. It would be very much like this Man Utd to hire a great Sporting Director as a temporary coach, then ignore his insights as a Sporting Director because he didn't do great as a temporary coach.
However, it would be strange to cut him off completely after clipping and promoting those comments he's made about the future. So, maybe, just maybe, the club is going to change the way it works for the better.
You can't actually be blaming Rashfords form on Rangnick? Getting silly now.
I agree Rashford is better on the left but it's Elanga keeping Rashford out most of the time not Sancho. Rashford only has himself to blame for his non selection.
I suppose Maguire's form is Rangnicks fault as well.
Fair enough. I'm far from certain about the board as yet, either, or the upper echelons generally. I do think that so far Murtough has made some good calls, and that this may point us in a more promising direction. Not going for Poch and instead getting ETH in, Ralf's engagement with the club, etc. There seems to be some intelligence in these decisions that is quite unlike what we've done for the last decade... But I am still very nervous myself about the way it could go. Don't paint me too optimistic!
I very much doubt any successful manager in history would come in and have us purring like a rolls Royce in the timeframe Ralf has had. How long did it take Klopp? Guardiolas first season he won zilch even though the squad was being prepped for him before he even came in.
When a squad has been as badly mismanaged as ours maybe someone like Poch could of came in and gotten us top 4 because he's more of a people person than Ralf which is probably why rumours of the players wanting him surfaced but if ETH had of came in instead of Ralf I'm under no illusion that it wouldn't be much better than it is at the minute.
If Ralfs interim period serves for anything it's exposing the players for what they really are. Gutless, spineless, cowardly which is going to make THs job a lot easier weeding out the weaker links at the club. The litmus paper has been lit. Hopefully now our record of papering over cracks is now a thing of the past and a proper rebuild will take place. Something the club has been crying out for for the last decade.
No he's always been shit on the right I'm not blaming Rangnick for that, all I'm saying is Ralf isn't helping him regain his form by shunting him out to the right.
Well yeah because as previously mentioned Rashford's shit on the right and continuing to play him there when it's clearly not working has eroded his confidence further.
I doubt it.
Just to play Devil's advocate I doubt whoever decides which clips to run on the clubs social media accounts is privy to the boards plans for restructuring the club at the highest levels.
Think that’s been pretty clear for a while. Every report before we hired him seemed to indicate we wanted him as interim but he wasn’t willing to leave his job at the time for a 6 month contract. Now he’s got an undefined consultancy where he himself said in interviews he hasn’t a clue the meaning of. That to me just sounds like we’ve decided to pay him for an extra 2 years so persuade him to leave his old job.
But it's not just rashford and maguire who have been shit under rangnick. Nearly everyone was, given ole was such a poor coach is it not reasonable to expect some sort of uplift in the players form
An uplift comes when the players are prepared to put in the hard work. Ours aren't which makes the managers job impossible. What's he supposed to do. Drop the whole lot? There was no pressure playing under Ole for the players which made for a happier dressing room until we got in winners like Varane and Ronaldo. Then the atmosphere changed because winners are going to call out the mentality of the team as a whole if they see the hard work isn't being put in. And here we are today.
unmotivated, unfit and don't care. The squad is a disgrace. Turning up to fulfil a contract obligation, the chancing fecks.
He’s basically saying either we’re signing injury prone players or they’re faking it right? That’s the only thing I can deduce from this?
Players obviously phoning it in, not willing to bleed for the badge.
my take is that it's a combo of what Ole did and the players being so uncaring and unmotivated that they are simply turning up to tick a box. They aren't doing anything. He referenced this post-liverpool when he basically said the players have given up on post-training recovery.
I would say some players are either faking it, else haven't been prepared enough physically, which would put much blame on the players and former management.
He's been saying "WE must improve next season", "these are thing WE have to do better", "I know what WE need to do" etc.
Been obvious for a while he sees himself as an important part of the new set-up.
It was always the case. He was never going to entertain questions about his remit when he just joined though.
Puts the blame on everyone, including himself and the staff not just the players
I'm so OTT suspicious about anything and everything regarding the attitudes of the players (and to be fair, with this lot who can blame me?) that I can't help but read bitter undertones to every quote I read even when they're almost certainly not there Regarding the medical department:
"But it’s definitely not got anything to do with the quality of people and the motivation of the staff.... in that area"
I'm sure it's a very innocent quote really.
Regarding the medical department:"But it’s definitely not got anything to do with the quality of people and the motivation of the staff.... in that area"
I'm sure it's a very innocent quote really.
After the Liverpool game he said:
If the medical department aren't the problem then I would read that as implying that the physical conditioning regime or the players' own efforts to maximise their fitness are off?
the implication of said quote is the players do not do post-training recovery. Thus leading to the issues we are seeing. If you need to question what the players do to recover, its a roundabout way of claiming they don't do what is required.
Great news.
Noticed a huge tonal shift in his latest press conference. I think he's had some sort of assurance from Murtough that he will still be here and his contributions will be valued. It was also strangely reassuring to hear him praise the staff in the medical department, fairly unprompted, as he's not been too positive about anyone in United full stop. I'm excited for what he and Ten Hag can do over the coming years. Hopefully the club will soon turn around and we're making better, more humble decisions at the very top.
This is what I wanted to hear. I was never excited for Rangnick as a manager, but his success in building clubs is there for all to see and that's what we need right now. Him + ETH would be a terrific combo, provided they are actually allowed to reform the club.
Kick in the teeth for the mafia on here who claims he is totally blameless and hasn’t put a single foot wrong.
It's also not really accurate that Ralf decided Rash was a winger from day 1. Rashford started as a central striker in Ralf's first game. 4222 anyone? Think Greenwood was the one on the right and Bruno on the left. Rashford actually also started Ralf's second game as a striker before getting moved to the right after 10 minutes. His performance was really bad.
Rashford's form isn't down to how he is treated. It's actually the other way round. Actually feel bad for Ralf getting stick for this because I saw how much he tried to make it work for Rashford. ETH could run into the same problem when he sees just how lacking his general play is. His decision tree is shoot, head down dribble or pass into defender's legs. Poor passer and seems really bad at executing any kind of link up exchange. I seriously question his fit for tiki taka football when he's the most direct player in the first 11 after Bruno.
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