The squad are making themselves look shit.
Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?
- Thread starter RonaldoVII
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The squad are making themselves look shit.
Sure don't disagree but it's still the managers job to get the best out of them and he isn't coming close to doing that
What the feck else is he supposed to do ? Our defensive options are shite. Our midfield options are shite. And our attacking options are mostly shite.
Having an interim as manager served 2 purposes, get the right manager choice decided and to spend no money in January. The team next season will be decimated and youth players will have to be promoted quickly this season to help out more next.
Matic, Pogba, Cavani, Mata, Lingard, Greenwood not at the club next season, potentially Ronaldo, Martial and Henderson as well. 6 definite leavers all going for free so no value being brought into the club, are we going to go out and make 6 or 7 signings in the summer, it’s not likely. We will be 2 seasons behind in the summer from where we need to be, even if we get champions league football this season it will be a hindrance rather than a positive, we won’t have the team to compete in it properly.
Matic, Pogba, Cavani, Mata, Lingard, Greenwood not at the club next season, potentially Ronaldo, Martial and Henderson as well. 6 definite leavers all going for free so no value being brought into the club, are we going to go out and make 6 or 7 signings in the summer, it’s not likely. We will be 2 seasons behind in the summer from where we need to be, even if we get champions league football this season it will be a hindrance rather than a positive, we won’t have the team to compete in it properly.
True, but where would we have ended up if we'd kept Carrick on, yes he might have got a bit more out of the players, most likely becasue they would have made more effort becasue they respected/liked him more, so we might have ended up getting 4 th, and kidding ourselves that the squad isn't so bad afterall, and then overpaying to get Poch as he would have been a far easier choice to make in this situation, or worse still thinking that Carrick could carry on. We'd just end up back where we always do soon enough.
Ralf has done an average job in the last 6 months, but he is leading us down the path of proper change it seems, which was always the main reason he came here, so for me all the pain of this season, and having no CL football next season could be worth it, simply in the hope it's the catalyst for us finally playing the right sort of football, and competing properly again.
He’s on something of a hiding to nothing though.
Still has a better points per game rate than Ole over his last 23 games. I just don’t think he’s suited to doing an interim job, he needs to change and bring in personnel to fit his system. An interim ideally is someone more pragmatic, that will simply get the best out of what he has, Ragnick hasn’t been that guy.
The real plus points of his appointment is two fold, his consultancy role after the season and that he wants to play a similar style to ETH so it’ll be extremely helpful to ETH seeing and consulting with Ragnick. Bringing in a top pragmatic interim may have just papered over too many cracks, now it’s laid bare.
Completely agree he isn't suited to being an interim I don't see his consultancy role as much of a benefit because I don't have any confidence it will amount to anything. He should be our dof
In terms of playing a similar style of football to ÈTH, that was what I was expecting but in reality the football under ralf hasn't been anything like what I would expect from an ETH team
ETH wouldn’t have managed to make this team do it either with zero signings, coming mid-season and with a brief to focus on trying to get CL.
You’re ridiculously naive to think ETH could’ve managed it under these circumstances.
I wasn't suggesting that.
Realistically I think ralf was the wrong appointment as an interim coach given the squad isn't immediately capable of playing the football he is known for and especially given his limited time working as a coach over the last 10 years. We would have been better off hiring a more pragmatic interim coach. If we weren't a ridiculous club we would have hired him as a dof
And I disagree, a pragmatic interim papers over cracks, distorts both ETH and the club’s idea of what this squad is capable of. Bringing in someone who wants to play like ETH lays it bare.
ETH will have no questions whatsoever after watching our games and consulting with Ralf on who can, and who can’t play for him.
I should clarify that I think he was the best option if we wanted to get a genuine head start for Ten Hags reign. If we solely wanted a CL spot, he was the wrong option.
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Seems that something isn’t right, the players don’t seem to like or respect him for whatever reason, and I can’t say I’m arsed about that.
It’s either they’re used to calling the shots and that has gone with Ole, or he’s actively fecking with their brands by calling them out every time he does an interview, or he’s told a bunch of them they’re not good enough to play for United.
We’ve had Shaw and Pogba say recently that things aren’t happy at United behind the scenes, which suggests a power struggle. I guess everyone thought the sub teacher was going to be softer than the actual teacher who got sacked?
It’s either they’re used to calling the shots and that has gone with Ole, or he’s actively fecking with their brands by calling them out every time he does an interview, or he’s told a bunch of them they’re not good enough to play for United.
We’ve had Shaw and Pogba say recently that things aren’t happy at United behind the scenes, which suggests a power struggle. I guess everyone thought the sub teacher was going to be softer than the actual teacher who got sacked?
Since pretty much everything he can be measured by has been a bit shit, it's now turned into somewhat of a fact that he was always going to be a poor manager but the work behind the scenes is his real strength and where he is doing such a brilliant job (even though he wasn't even involved in the decision to go for ETH?)
You do understand that his role as consultant could be everything between non-existing to heavily involved, and that it might just depend on how he performs during his period as manager?
You do understand that his role as consultant could be everything between non-existing to heavily involved, and that it might just depend on how he performs during his period as manager?
Does it have to be a power struggle? Maybe he's just a bit of a dickhead and he's creating an unhealthy atmosphere?
It could be but how could he possibly do that? Make them train more? Give them more prep for the next game, explain tactics to them? Take away the chips and tell Maguire he’s playing shit? I don’t think there’s much he could do that would make him seem totally unreasonable, unless he’s calling them in the middle of the night and shouting “cnut!” Down the phone then hanging up.
I think he wants them to work harder than they want, in a system they weren’t even sure is gonna be similar next season, for a demanding man that isn’t gonna be their manager next season.
It can all add up to the power struggle you mention.
That’s not true at all though is it? Most people here are saying that in hindsight he doesn’t look a good choice for interim manager if the sole goal was top 4, as we have no doubt now that these players cannot play the system he (or ETH) wants. Many of us (like myself) vastly overrated the squad and thought switching Ole out with a more tactical manager would work wonders. But the squad is wank, I’m glad it’s laid bare for ETH, Murtough and the owners.
I have no doubt that Conte for example would’ve been a miles better interim (he wouldn’t have done it though) and papered over a tonne of cracks and we’d all be here thinking that we just need a player or two to complete a puzzle.
That's the one thing I like about him is his honesty and straight talking when asked about the players doing things that might be considered unwise or out of order. He's a terrible coach though.
There doesn't exist any scenarios where it's acceptable to be unhappy with how the manager is performing his tasks, ala Ancelotti's situation at Bayern?
Well, Ralf's take on physios and recovery is hardly state of the art, if the rest of his training methods are of similar mold then what? Maybe the way he's interacting with players is creating more problems than it solves?
It's not like the only alternative here is a power struggle, but obviously with Ralf Rangnicks illustrious career as a manager at the highest level it does seem highly unlikely
Because our team is a mishmash of players who aren't suited to an ETH team, and no one could train them to play like one in 6 months, especially when many of them seem unwilling to even put in the effort to improve
Thats certainly putting a positive spin on it but I don't think ETH and ralfs preferred styles of football are all that similar beyond being progressive. Ralf seemed to abandon attempts to play a high press fairly quickly so we are now playing in a mid block with little defensive organisation or coherence in possession. So the idea we are learning about how the players would fit into ETHs system seems fanciful. Unfortunately ralf also wasted a month at the start of his reign trying to implement an anachronistic 4222 system which didn't work.
Clearly it has been too much to ask ralf to implement a pressing style of football with these players so think a more pragmatic appointment could have got us in the cl thereby making it easier for us to attract players and increasing our budget
It’s so hard to judge him with this team, literally half of them don’t want to be here, and half of the other half are constantly injured or aren’t good enough anyway.. you could give Pep this lot and he’d achieve the same, it’s not up to the manager to ask the players to check their shoulder at this level
He abandoned it despite how well it worked even in his very first game versus Palace because the players weren’t capable of maintaining it, he didn’t abandon something he’s preached about his entire career for shits and giggles.
I really do think we’d have a smaller budget in the CL if the interim had papered over cracks, we’ve often spent much bigger when we’ve missed out, because the powers that be decide we’re actually an alright team and now just need a Fred or a Dalot. Missing out also requires big stories, a Zlatan, a Pogba, a Angel Di Maria to keep up the commercial side of us still looking powerful.
I still don't know what benefit and redeeming features he has brought to the club since his appointment. It seems everyone likes him only because he is publicly calling out the players and speaking what is on their fans' mind, so if that's the case, you all should like Mourinho too.
Conte accepted a two year contract at Tottenham, not sure how it’s outside the realms of possibility that he would’ve accepted a well compensated job as interim manager at Manchester United when we were still in the FA cup and the Champions League.
It’s somehow turned into a fact that the only path to ETH and improving the squad is Ralf doing a poor job as a manager. A new manager is always going to come in and priorities will be made in terms of what positions we strengthen first. Midfield? Attack? Fullbacks? What’s most important to fix, how do you cover the cracks in the position you can’t strengthen..
The squad isn’t wank, it’s capable of much better than the type of performances we’re seeing. You can get the team to perform and at the same time assess which players needs to be replaced, it’s much easier than having an entire squad of underperforming players and not being sure what the problem actually is. Bruno Fernandes, part of the problem or part of the solution? Would Lingard have thrived in a position as wingback?
We really have no idea what Ralfs role at the club is going to be after he steps down as manager, it might be feck all and he might play a bigger role than initially planned for, but it’s hardly an established fact that he will play a major role. According to himself, he’s barely been involved in anything related to the next manager.
Pretty irrelevant comment. Just pointing out that Carrick got more from the same players, Ralf’s just been too inflexible. I’m not advocating whatever you’re on about.
Jose did that to make himself look better and shift blame, Ralf's way is just not really comparable. Blokes looking to keep his job and improve things, not get paid off to leave like Jose.
I think people have very quickly forgotten just how bad we were this season under Ole. Over time it's morphed into an expectation for top 4 as the measure for Ralf but that was always a long shot for any manager coming in.
The squad is shit or a number of them know they are leaving and couldn't give a shit. Take your pick?
Name any of our players that would make pools, city's, or even Chelsea's side? Only ronaldo and I honestly think he would be a bench player for most of them.
We were in relegation form with ole. We managed 4/24 points before he was sacked and 3 points came against spurs who eventually sacked their manager afterwards. Even our CL was in doubt if it wasn't gor Ronaldo.
I reckon we could crowd find Keano calling them in the night if we recorded the phone calls
For three games. The sample size is far too small to make any kind of meaningful comparison with Ralf. Who is to say that Carrick wouldn't have performed worse given equal run of games? There's no way to know, and so, really, it's not a helpful comparison.
I hope you get what you're looking for
We were undoubtedly bad in the late ole days but it's worth noting the we had a difficult run of fixtures. Rangnick has had a pretty favourable run of fixtures so far but hasnt been able to deliver the uptick in fork expected
The players have the right to be unhappy with the board and the club in general. When they sacked Ole they pretty much said we won’t show any ambition this season so you’re all wasting a year just being here, even though they were the ones that appointed a manager that was potentially out of his depth. If that’s what they’re sulking about then I’m with them but there’s still next season to play for.
However if there is an issue with Ralf in general I don’t understand why one of the players hasn’t outed him yet via an agent. It’s not like he’s staying on as manager, someone might as well. Possibly because he’s not asking them to do anything that isn’t radical and fans will ultimately side with him, especially if it involves him telling them they’ve overpaid and entitled for their achievements.
He's starting to be more critical of the team, which I approve of. You could see him getting slightly heated when discussing the players lack of fight in their defensive battles.
Ten Haag doesnt know what he's after getting himself into
Ten Haag doesnt know what he's after getting himself into
We would have lost to Arsenal and probably drawn or lost with Villareal under Ole that would've carried on into the Christmas period where I imagine we'd have lost against the likes of Palace.
Chelsea would've beaten us too under Ole.
We can say Ralf started with an easy run of games but the mood around the club was rotten and it needed Carrick and then Ralf to offer something fresh.
Chelsea would've beaten us too under Ole.
We can say Ralf started with an easy run of games but the mood around the club was rotten and it needed Carrick and then Ralf to offer something fresh.
I think Ralf is the best acquisition United have made in a long while.
His real skillset is what he can offer moving forwards to make United a much better run club, I really hope he gets that opportunity and can work well with the new manager.
His post match press conferences are a breath of fresh air because he says it as he sees it.
He looks highly frustrated, almost shocked at the standard of our defence and how we play when we do not have possession, this is not something you can address in a few months with the players he has at his disposal.
His real skillset is what he can offer moving forwards to make United a much better run club, I really hope he gets that opportunity and can work well with the new manager.
His post match press conferences are a breath of fresh air because he says it as he sees it.
He looks highly frustrated, almost shocked at the standard of our defence and how we play when we do not have possession, this is not something you can address in a few months with the players he has at his disposal.
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