Ralf Rangnick | ex-interim manager | does anyone rate him?

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mctrials23 said:
This very much resonates with my feelings on the matter as well. Ole never showed any signs of being a top coach or manager from day one. Either you think that its possible to change a club completely in the space of about 3 days or you accept that Oles purple patch was almost entirely due to the new manager boost where players had gone from a horribly toxic manager to a happy clappy one who just wanted them to express themselves and attack. As soon as teams figured us out (and coincidentally as soon as Ole got his permanent contract. No idea if that is anything to read into that or not) results took a massive turn for the worse.

Most people who watch a decent amount of football and look at how teams play and what the best teams do will have seen the signs that Ole was massively out of his depth early on. If I was to summarise Oles tenure in one statement it would be "gets outplayed by most opponents but expensive players bail the team out". Yesterday is a prime example of what we have seen for years now. We should have lost that game. We were always a hiccup away from results turning and eventually the ups and downs were going to trend towards more downs as the players lost faith and didn't see a long term positive outcome. Anyone who thought that last years 2nd place finish was merited or anything but the result of our main rivals for top 4 being awful needs their head checking.

The other reason plenty of us never thought Ole was up to the job is that he never had any sort of plan or philosophy for his team. If you can name me a single team that competes for trophies in the big leagues and CL that doesn't have a strong club philosophy I would love to hear about them. Not a single top side has a manager that thinks "football is a simple game". Not a single manager thinks that you can be at your best when counterattacking if you want to win leagues and big trophies. You can't try to counter attack vs 12+ teams in the league who are going to sit deep and try and counter you.

He basically had done nothing to improve us as a team apart from buying better players and lets be honest, he has spent quite horribly at times.

Onto Rangnick. I have no idea how well he is doing but what I do hear from him gives me hope that either he will make some progress in the 6 months he is here or will at least have the right focus when he moves upstairs at the end of the season. I don't think people understand just how dysfunctional our setup currently is. Players don't seem to care. They don't seem to listen to instructions and they seem incapable of doing the simplest things that players should be doing instinctually.

Either we have somehow amassed a load of PL footballers who made it this far without these skills or they have been given such little focus for the past few years that they are no longer instinctual. Simple things like tracking runners. Where to place yourself on the pitch to cut out a pass, when to run and when to hold back, communication between players. Yesterday I watched as we had 5 -7 players at the back, only 2 of whom were doing any marking and Brentford, the mighty Brentford were just buzzing around in front of us, making yards of space at will and having their runners make simple runs to receive the ball in areas that in theory were overloaded with United players but because no one comes out to tackle or pressure they were free to do as they please.

Either Rangnick just talks a good game these days or these players are basically not bothering. I know where my money lies.
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Agree with most of this. Especially the appallingly bad decision to appoint the most under qualified manager Utd has ever had (though Wilf McGuiness comes close). He should never have been contemplated even for interim role but as the Guardian journo says that what you get when you are nostalgia FC stuck in the past. I would add even more importantly is when you have the worst CEO in this club's history who is clueless and has had 4 managerial stupid appointments, with Ole by far the worst.

To your final points, I would have more faith if Rlaf was confirmed as the new DoF. The consultant thing makes me nervous as its short code for Ed and his replacement not wanting to let go.
 
AltiUn said:
Kinda, it's sort of what he wants to do though, goals quickly after winning possession. That's how his Liepzig teams did it. It's easiest to score when you've just won possession as the opposition is bent out of shape. Below is a quote from Laurie Whitwell's article in the Athletic.
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Liverpool do this so well, they win the ball back quick and get the ball into the correct zones quickly, its also why goals can come quickly on top of each other also as the other team may try and open up a bit more allowing for more turnovers and quick attacks from the pressing team
 
Zen86 said:
We dropped points against Villa, Wolves and Newcastle. Even when we've got the 3 points, we were comfortably outplayed for much of those games against far inferior opposition. All I see is "yeah but we were really good against Villa for 60 minutes" and "that was the best 25 mins all season!" being mooted as signs of improvement. We were Moments FC a few months ago and not much has changed since then. Getting a tune out of a squad this expensive 10 minutes here and there, every now and then isn't progress and it's not an achievement. That was Ole's reign in a nutshell. Getting them playing well for 90 minutes is the challenge and we certainly haven't done that so far. You can imagine all the trigger points you like but it's not going to change that fact.
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It's not though - because Ole got spanked 4-1 from Watford was it? Spanked by Leicester and others. He was comprehensively out played and couldn't even dominate possession.
For all the chances we concede we still control games better under Rangnick than what we did. And our XG conceded for a while reduced, it's gone back up again in the last game but so did our offense - and we had 60% of the ball which is what you expect for United.

And yes we dropped some points - but our results would have us on course for a solid top 4 so I don't know why you are once again, making up a lazy narrative again. This goes back to my point, you want results and a big improvement straight away and it shows that you're demanding a pile bollocks that even Klopp or Pep couldn't deliver in short time. So why should Rangnick?

And by the way, I'm not imagining any trigger points. I am giving you facts and you're trying to make shit up like claiming the results overall haven't been good. And this is why I called you a wum earlier.
 
Bilbo said:
I think we're seeing some positive signs, but its also a balanced and reasonable view that we could have lost yesterdays game and then the pitchforks would have been out. Its a (ridiculous) reality that United fans are going to judge everything really quickly these days, and if you're of that mindset then there is plenty there to be slightly hesitant about. We haven't really improved much. We are still making very hard work of lower league opposition. We do still seem to find it easier to concede chances than to create them. You can't have those things happen and think 'wow, this guy has been a revelation!' at this point.

Then again, is it fair to expect any of that? Maybe it is? I personally would prefer a slow and consistent improvement over a new manager bounce because its probably more sustainable, but the fact that we haven't been able to just reorganise this team quickly shows that there are deep rooted issues that Ole was also struggling with. Tried to press and abandoned it. Tried various formations without seeing any more cohesion. This is a team severely lacking in confidence.

Lets give the guy time. There is no guarantee at this point, but he seems to have some idea of what he is doing and these changes are always going to take time. For me, the Atletico ties are the point at which we need to deliver. By then he's had plenty of time & fixtures, and if we can't put up a good showing against a strong European side then questions will need to be asked.
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Good post.

We have been clearly a shambles all season just after the first month. I can't pinpoint what happened but Ole way of doing it seemed to have lost total control on and off the pitch.

This job for Ralf being interim is absolutely huge. I don't even think a lot of people are actually realising how big a job it is when some many of the team seem to be disgruntled or completely out of confidence.


As far as results have been it's been good, but the performances at times not so good.

I do think these last 3 games he got more control of the team on the pitch, and defo learning a lot more about his team and squad. The changes 2nd half last night worked well and was exactly how he would like his team's to play.

As Pogue said confidence is huge. Bruno starting to click and if few others start too up front we could start dicking teams again. I think we are close. Hopefully we hit the form at the right stage of the season.


I think Ralf showed big balls as well with the way he going about showing who is boss. If we could move a few out in this window, it will give him even more clout.
 
GazTheLegend said:
Hugely impressed by Rangnick's willingness to change things that aren't working and his balls to take off Ronaldo knowing the inevitable media shitstorm. Remember Moyes being terrified of dropping van Persie and even saying as much to the press? And van Persie had half the clout Ronaldo does. His quiet word in Ronaldo's ear was one of the highlights of the game for me yesterday. Ronaldo looking crushed and muttering "why me though." to himself around when Rashford scored was amazing. I don't have a problem with either though, Cristiano really will use all this as fuel for West Ham on Saturday when we need him again.
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I thought that was a disgrace by Moyes, and was just one of the signs of how out of depth he was, and I'm one of the biggest Van Persie fans around. :lol:
 
ForeverRed1 said:
He’s come out and said Bruno’s best position is in a deeper number 6 role...


I disagree...
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Do you have a clip of this?



Here is what he actually says about where he see's Bruno's role - he calls it an 8. Is this what you disagree with?

EDIT Playback disabled by the uploader but if you click and forward to 1 min 40 the question is asked.

Ralph says "most the top teams play 433 in Europe. I think for Bruno it's better than being pinned to a 10 position because he can then make himself available in different areas, not only in the central areas. In this position, the eight he can sniff the moments of which areas we need to play the ball to him".
 
I still dont think he will be happy. He would prefer if we had more control. If you look at the five minutes after we scored the first goal, we completely lost control of the game. At that state you need your MFs and Defence controlling the game by retaining the ball.
 
VP89 said:
It's not though - because Ole got spanked 4-1 from Watford was it? Spanked by Leicester and others. He was comprehensively out played and couldn't even dominate possession.
For all the chances we concede we still control games better under Rangnick than what we did. And our XG conceded for a while reduced, it's gone back up again in the last game but so did our offense - and we had 60% of the ball which is what you expect for United.

And yes we dropped some points - but our results would have us on course for a solid top 4 so I don't know why you are once again, making up a lazy narrative again. This goes back to my point, you want results and a big improvement straight away and it shows that you're demanding a pile bollocks that even Klopp or Pep couldn't deliver in short time. So why should Rangnick?

And by the way, I'm not imagining any trigger points. I am giving you facts and you're trying to make shit up like claiming the results overall haven't been good. And this is why I called you a wum earlier.
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We were comprehensively outplayed last night for most of the game :lol:

And yes, if all we did was play 6 games against the dregs of the Premier League, then we would definitely be on course for a Top 4 finish. Bravo. Standards are indeed high again.
 
Zen86 said:
We were comprehensively outplayed last night for most of the game :lol:

And yes, if all we did was play 6 games against the dregs of the Premier League, then we would definitely be on course for a Top 4 finish. Bravo. Standards are indeed high again.
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We were "comprehensively outplayed for most the game". Here you go again with the made up stories.

We had around 60-65% possession in the first half and were turned over in 2 very big moments where they caught us on a counter and had very good opportunities. Their other chances in that half was all set piece play from corners or throw ins. They did not "comprehensively outplay" us.

In the second half we played much better, put them 3-0 down and just decided to sit back and let them try and break us down for the final 15 minutes. Ending stats was around 56% possession in our favour and a 3-1 score.

They did not comprehensive outplay us. And you're showing your ignorance again in calling Brentford as the "dregs of the Premier League". A team that pulled Chelsea's pants down at home, who drew 3-3 with Liverpool at home and generally had a very good record (I think only 4 home defeats all season).
 
Zen86 said:
We were comprehensively outplayed last night for most of the game :lol:

And yes, if all we did was play 6 games against the dregs of the Premier League, then we would definitely be on course for a Top 4 finish. Bravo. Standards are indeed high again.
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We were not. Period. Don't let the "love for Ole" or "hate for Ralf " cloud the actual facts.
 
We weren't outplayed, we just couldn't get a foothold in the game because Brentford were pressing and hassling us extremely well. The concerning part of the first half, more than the chances conceded, was the fact that we couldn't create anything in those periods where we did have control. Build up play was too slow and they were able to easily maintain a defensive shape because of that. We still don't look anything like a potent attacking team.
 
VP89 said:
We were "comprehensively outplayed for most the game". Here you go again with the made up stories.

We had around 60-65% possession in the first half and were turned over in 2 very big moments where they caught us on a counter and had very good opportunities. Their other chances in that half was all set piece play from corners or throw ins. They did not "comprehensively outplay" us.

In the second half we played much better, put them 3-0 down and just decided to sit back and let them try and break us down for the final 15 minutes. Ending stats was around 56% possession in our favour and a 3-1 score.

They did not comprehensive outplay us. And you're showing your ignorance again in calling Brentford as the "dregs of the Premier League". A team that pulled Chelsea's pants down at home, who drew 3-3 with Liverpool at home and generally had a very good record (I think only 4 home defeats all season).
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Moments FC. We only scored 3 because of individual brilliance and clinical finishing. That first half had oppo fans laughing their arses off.
 
Zen86 said:
Moments FC. We only scored 3 because of individual brilliance and clinical finishing. That first half had oppo fans laughing their arses off.
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Moments FC - so the save DDG made was from the "moment" a Brentford player found an eye of the needle pass from his own half. Fred did the same thing. But his assist is moments FC and Brentford's is comprehensively outplaying us.

You've been found out lad, have a word.
 
VP89 said:
Moments FC - so the save DDG made was from the "moment" a Brentford player found an eye of the needle pass from his own half. Fred did the same thing. But his assist is moments FC and Brentford's is comprehensively outplaying us.

You've been found out lad, have a word.
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Your lack of self-awareness is astounding :lol:
 
Had bit of faith restored yesterday with him recognizing his failure against Villa. He has a good history of the premier league but, I also think it's still just hitting him how competitive even the lower teams can be these days even when they are down 2-0, so needs to make adjustments. Add to the recognition that doesn't matter who the opposition is today in this league, to get control of games, we have got to have at least 3 in the middle. Hopefully based on that and adjustments in training, they can start building upon some good work in the last 2 games.
 
Zen86 said:
Your lack of self-awareness is astounding :lol:
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Coming from the guy who said we had bad results. Was shown facts of our results being good, and then forgot history with the comeback "what good results"? Was then pointed to the results and then backtracked they are against lower teams.
It's beggars belief.

And even then the latest team of which, outplayed Tuchel and drew 3-3 to Klopp. And then the idiocy to suggest they comprehensively outplayed us most the match with 45% possession having lost to us 3-1. Keep it up, really.
 
VP89 said:
Coming from the guy who said we had bad results. Was shown facts of our results being good, and then forgot history with the comeback "what good results"? Was then pointed to the results and then backtracked they are against lower teams.
It's beggars belief.

And even then the latest team of which, outplayed Tuchel and drew 3-3 to Klopp. And then the idiocy to suggest they comprehensively outplayed us most the match with 45% possession having lost to us 3-1. Keep it up, really.
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:lol: I will enjoy watching this thread
 
ForeverRed1 said:
He’s come out and said Bruno’s best position is in a deeper number 6 role...


I disagree...
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Good for you! I disagree also. His coach at Sporting said his best position was number 8. I think his best position is where he gets space to pass and bring the ball with him. So in reality, his best position is more about the system he plays in. He sure could learn a thing or two from Odegaard and De Breuyne about moving into space. Lot to desire, still.
 
NewUser777 said:
Good for you! I disagree also. His coach at Sporting said his best position was number 8. I think his best position is where he gets space to pass and bring the ball with him. So in reality, his best position is more about the system he plays in. He sure could learn a thing or two from Odegaard and De Breuyne about moving into space. Lot to desire, still.
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He didnt say that. He said the best position is the 8. I posted the video above.
 
Subbing Ronaldo, dropping Maguire, AWB, Rashford, promoting Elanga over the poor players, and flexible enough to try different things if his prefered 4222 is not working. Those are positive signs.

Why does Ronaldo need an explanation. If the boss thinks his time is up due to tactics, or to give someone else a run out, or manage his minutes then its up to him. Till now he still doesn't understand its a team game not Ronaldo FC. I trust Ralf to have the backbone to not second guess himself over a sub because the big baby is going to throw his toys out.

Also is this the new meta, where we transition to a back 5 when ahead?
 
Redlyn said:
Why does Ronaldo need an explanation.
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Why not? Every player wants to play all the time, so a manager should be able to explain to every player why he does (not) play.

I would be more bothered seeing a player happily leaving the pitch (at least when it happens in similar circumstances).
 
Samid said:
PPG is irrelevant all the while we’ve lost the only game we’ve played against a top half team under him.

Unnecessary points dropped at Villa and Newcastle mens we have to win every game until the end of February. After that the fixtures get really ugly.
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Before RR, we lost 1-4 to Watford who was at the bottom of the table, got dominated by Leicester who had been in awful form, lost to Villa at OT and Young Boys.

Like I said, we have not looked great by any means, but it has definitely been better.
 
Zen86 said:
Moments FC. We only scored 3 because of individual brilliance and clinical finishing. That first half had oppo fans laughing their arses off.
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Literally none of our goals were individual brilliance :lol:
 
"You guys were mean to Ole so we're going to be mean to every future manager".

Well could it be that one is being evaluated on standards of an interim not expected to take the long term job? Well there you go then, no bias. Many people backing Ralf don't even want him for the permanent job. We can up the standards per every 150m he has spent in the permanent role, till then there's no double standards.

Stop making Ole some mistreated martyr, it doesn't even make sense. All the criteria that got Jose fired got Ole fired so why not even add Jose's picture to the crusade. Guess he should still be United manager too.
 
Zen86 said:
Well, Ralf isn't Klopp or Pep and won't be manager long enough to ever reach that level. So yeah, stupid comparison really.
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Klopp finished 8th or something in his first season ffs.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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I'm sick of hearing from player's 'camps' to be honest, bunch of leeches no doubt blowing smoke up his arse telling him he's the best thing since sliced bread. Same no doubt as Lingard, Pogba, Martial et al the other divas - not used to criticism. I love how brutally honest Rangnick has been the whole time, makes a refreshing change from Jose's mind games and Ole's mollycoddling.

You're at a big club now Jadon, time to put your big boy pants on and actually compete for your place. That or tuck your tail and hop on the bus with Tony and Paul. That is the mentality required to turn the club around.
 
stefan92 said:
Why not? Every player wants to play all the time, so a manager should be able to explain to every player why he does (not) play.

I would be more bothered seeing a player happily leaving the pitch (at least when it happens in similar circumstances).
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It's not like he does not play. He was subbed at the back end of a game. Every match a player gets subbed and they don't each need to get an explanation. It doesn't always have to be someone else who gets subbed.

It also doesn't have to be extremes. Nobody is asking him to be happy. Just keep his toys in his pram. If he can't accept that he is no longer untouchable, it won't end well.
 
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C3Pique said:
I'm sick of hearing from player's 'camps' to be honest, bunch of leeches no doubt blowing smoke up his arse telling him he's the best thing since sliced bread. Same no doubt as Lingard, Pogba, Martial et al the other divas - not used to criticism. I love how brutally honest Rangnick has been the whole time, makes a refreshing change from Jose's mind games and Ole's mollycoddling.

You're at a big club now Jadon, time to put your big boy pants on and actually compete for your place. That or tuck your tail and hop on the bus with Tony and Paul. That is theI c mentality required to turn the club around.
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Me too, I couldn't give a flying feck what a players 'camp' are happy or not happy about. These guys are so worried about their image and brand they can't take it if the manager is not coming out and blowing smoke up their arse and covering for them all the time. Ole did that and look how they repaid him.

Maybe Ralf didn't need to mention Jadon was at a funeral but after the Martial debacle last week, mentioning that he was at a funeral and not "unavailable for selection" was probably a smart thing to do.
 
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