[Devil may care]

The McNair thing is odd. Perhaps he's been on the bench instead of Rafael because he can cover two positions if necessary? In terms of starting games he came in and was excellent (against Preston? or was it Cambridge?) then started the next game, was crap, and hasn't been seen since.

Wasn't that also around the time Rafael was recently injured (lacking "match rhythm"?) Anyway, I'd be amazed if Rafael didn't start the next game that Valencia was unavailable. Especially with him looking good for the reserves. If that doesn't happen then I'll accept Van Gaal must really think he's crap.

McNair can cover two positions but I am sure there most times he was on the bench ahead of Rafael so was another CB so him being able to play both positions seems a stretch. As a RB McNair has had 2 good games, both against lower league teams in the FA Cup, the second half against Cambridge and the full game against Preston. in the PL the couple of games he's had at RB he's looked out of his depth attacking and defending, but did show an knack for intelligent passing from the role.

I have to confess I am not sure on the exact timeline of Rafael's injury issues but he seems to have been playing in the U21's for a couple of months now and the injury he had was a facial one as opposed to the type that would stop a player keeping their full training regime, and LvG's match rhythm seems to only apply when it suits him, I mean Blind returned from a nasty knee injury straight into the starting lineup.

 

[NinjaZombie]

McNair can cover two positions but I am sure there most times he was on the bench ahead of Rafael so was another CB so him being able to play both positions seems a stretch. As a RB McNair has had 2 good games, both against lower league teams in the FA Cup, the second half against Cambridge and the full game against Preston. in the PL the couple of games he's had at RB he's looked out of his depth attacking and defending, but did show an knack for intelligent passing from the role.

I have to confess I am not sure on the exact timeline of Rafael's injury issues but he seems to have been playing in the U21's for a couple of months now and the injury he had was a facial one as opposed to the type that would stop a player keeping their full training regime, and LvG's match rhythm seems to only apply when it suits him, I mean Blind returned from a nasty knee injury straight into the starting lineup.

Yeap. I was thinking this when Blind returned. We're Manchester United (the club that was run by an autocracy for close to 3 decades) fans, I think most of us would accept that the manager will want to make decisions based on his own whims or gut feelings. I preferred how Ferguson did things, without any bullshit scientific type waffling about why he'd make decisions. Doesn't help when you contradict your words with your actions.

 

[POF]

In his absence, Valencia has come in and done a very good job and retained his place on merit. It really is that simple. If/when he gets injured or has a dip in form I'm sure Rafael will get games again. I hope he plays well enough to keep Valencia out of the team. Time will tell.

But it really isn't that simple. When Valencia needed to be rotated he chose McNair at right back instead of Rafael. I cannot speak for others but I can absolutely understand why he likes Valencia. Van Gaal's full backs play far higher up the pitch than normal full backs and one of Valencia's greatest strengths is his ability to shield and keep the ball under pressure. He is brilliant at it. Van Gaal values possession above all else. I believe he also sees Valencia as a "safer" player.

I just happen to think that he's wrong. In a team that struggles for balance and cannot seem to be both an attacking threat and a competent defensive unit with the same line up, including a full back who is better defensively and more creative than the incumbent appears a no brainer. Also, Rafael's detractors criticise him for giving fouls away and making mistakes. Conceding stupid needless fouls is the biggest flaw in Valencia's game and the goal against Arsenal (given the game, the opposition and the stage of the season) was one of the worst and most costly mistakes by a United defender in many years.

Valencia has some positive features but Rafael is just a significantly better right back.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

McNair can cover two positions but I am sure there most times he was on the bench ahead of Rafael so was another CB so him being able to play both positions seems a stretch. As a RB McNair has had 2 good games, both against lower league teams in the FA Cup, the second half against Cambridge and the full game against Preston. in the PL the couple of games he's had at RB he's looked out of his depth attacking and defending, but did show an knack for intelligent passing from the role.

I have to confess I am not sure on the exact timeline of Rafael's injury issues but he seems to have been playing in the U21's for a couple of months now and the injury he had was a facial one as opposed to the type that would stop a player keeping their full training regime, and LvG's match rhythm seems to only apply when it suits him, I mean Blind returned from a nasty knee injury straight into the starting lineup.

I remember @limerickcitykid discussing that with someone before. It's not true. Blind was in full training a week or two before he started a first team game.

 

[Nick 0208 Ldn]

We're just past the first week of March and people are using the fact a player has been available "save for about 7-10 days" since the first week of December as evidence that he's not injury prone. Colour me not convinced.

I know such things don't factor into your thinking Pogue, but there are numerous players with a comparable or worse injury record who nonetheless start matches. The fitness argument simply doesn't hold water, not in isolation.

It is more plausible that Van Gaal doesn't favour his style of play, or something of that nature. Although even should be his opinion over the long term, he's been cutting off his nose to spite his face with this McNair business.

 

[m1y2]

play him as LB.. could be interesting looking left hand side with two natural "rightfooters" perhaps little bit too much of imbalance for van Gaal tho

 

[Devil may care]

I remember @limerickcitykid discussing that with someone before. It's not true. Blind was in full training a week or two before he started a first team game.

Yes training, but Rafael has been training and playing reserve football for 2 months now and hasn't even made the bench, in fact I don't think Rafael missed much training at all with the cheekbone injury.

 

[Devil may care]

Yeap. I was thinking this when Blind returned. We're Manchester United (the club that was run by an autocracy for close to 3 decades) fans, I think most of us would accept that the manager will want to make decisions based on his own whims or gut feelings. I preferred how Ferguson did things, without any bullshit scientific type waffling about why he'd make decisions. Doesn't help when you contradict your words with your actions.

I'd prefer if he was direct as well, in fact he doesn't even need to give a reason, he simply has to say he can only select 18 players and he'll decide when a player has shown him enough in training for him to put them back in the squad, and that all players recover differently.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I know such things don't factor into your thinking Pogue, but there are numerous players with a comparable or worse injury record who nonetheless start matches. The fitness argument simply doesn't hold water, not in isolation.

It is more plausible that Van Gaal doesn't favour his style of play, or something of that nature. Although even should be his opinion over the long term, he's been cutting off his nose to spite his face with this McNair business.

Mc Nair's barely played a handful of games at fullback, off the back of excelling in that position for our U-21s. In his debut first team game in that position he was arguably MOTM. He subsequently got dropped after a bad game and hasn't played that position since.

With all the fuss about losing our emphasis on youth development when Fergie retired I find it very hard to get worked up about the opportunities given to McNair this season. Especially with so few opportunities to give players games.

 

[sullydnl]

Didn't Van Gaal say something like "McNair could be the Manchester United right-back for the next ten years"? Hardly surprising he's picking him over Rafael if he rates him that highly....

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Didn't Van Gaal say something like "McNair could be the Manchester United right-back for the next ten years"? Hardly surprising he's picking him over Rafael if he rates him that highly....

He was bigging him up after a really good performance against Cambridge. He's been talking up the kids at every chance he gets this season. Youth development seems to be a point of personal pride for him. I wouldn't take everything he says about them entirely seriously.

 

[Devil may care]

Seems to enjoying himself at Cheltenham.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ung-enjoy-Ladies-Day-Cheltenham-Festival.html

 

[Walrus]

Damn, knew I should have nipped over to the racecourse today (I live like 5 mins walk from it)!

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Some excellent caption opportunities there.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Just saw a clip of the screamers he has scored for us, think I will probably shed a tear when he leaves. I think winning & losing is a part of sport but it just sucks how hard it is becoming to associate with the current team, I am ready to give the manager time to improve us but it seems like by this time next season almost every single player in the team bar Rooney will be new and bought post Saf leaving.

 

[LeChuck]

Most of LvG's 'baffling' decisions, I can maybe make a case for...but this guy's omission at the expense of Valencia is the one that really doesn't make any sense.

He should be playing every game.

 

[Amir]

I would accept there's no point in playing Rafael in Van Gaal was intent on creating a settled back four. But when he himself makes changes, during matches as well, then I don't see the point. He's our best right back, by far.

 

[RedOldBoy]

I would accept there's no point in playing Rafael in Van Gaal was intent on creating a settled back four. But when he himself makes changes, during matches as well, then I don't see the point. He's our best right back, by far.

He's our only natural right back

 

[Invictus]

@Pogue Mahone

How do your define par? The average performance over the last two seasons would be reasonable, no? If so, I'd say there's a very big doubt over whether he's an upgrade on Valencia.

If we're talking about his form way back in 2012/13 then there's no doubt he'd be a big upgrade. That shouldn't be how the manager picks his team though.

I disagree mate.

Rafael is a better right back than Valencia both offensively and defensively, even if we're talking about post 2012/ 2013 or just this current season. eg. Look at his performances vs West Ham or Everton from this season which were as good as his 2012/ 2013 form).

But that gets overlooked or underrated or forgotten because he has started just 6 games under Van Gaal in the regular season making the sample size minimal. The only thing (IMO) holding him back from being our long term starter is his dodgy fitness record. If we was consistently fit, Valencia wouldn't get a whiff at RB. Therein lies the problem, if he's fit right now, why not just plug him in, instead of persisting with a player who is more suspect in terms of his positional discipline for the role (not that I blame Valencia mind - it's not his natural position).

 

[justboy68]

Clearly still keeping a good attitude which is good to see. I trust he'll still find success somewhere else just wish it could be here. I'm sure we'll spunk another £30 million on someone almost as good though.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So the boss enjoyed his performance and his goal.

On Rafael, the United boss added: "Rafa played a very good match and scored a wonderful goal and because of that he can grip again his confidence."

Now who was it saying he wouldn't like to see a fullback doing what Rafael did?

 

[Keeps It tidy]

So the boss enjoyed his performance and his goal.


Now who was it saying he wouldn't like to see a fullback doing what Rafael did?

Cool maybe he can actually give him playing time now.

 

[bosnian_red]

@Pogue Mahone



I disagree mate.

Rafael is a better right back than Valencia both offensively and defensively, even if we're talking about post 2012/ 2013 or just this current season. eg. Look at his performances vs West Ham or Everton from this season which were as good as his 2012/ 2013 form).

But that gets overlooked or underrated or forgotten because he has started just 6 games under Van Gaal in the regular season making the sample size minimal. The only thing (IMO) holding him back from being our long term starter is his dodgy fitness record. If we was consistently fit, Valencia wouldn't get a whiff at RB. Therein lies the problem, if he's fit right now, why not just plug him in, instead of persisting with a player who is more suspect in terms of his positional discipline for the role (not that I blame Valencia mind - it's not his natural position).

I agree for the most part, but I think Valencia has done really well generally this season. Yes he might frustrate supporters, but is a very reliable player with his overall fitness and physicality. Almost always reliable on the ball as well, to dribble it out of defence and keep the width. It's his final ball that is lacking and the defensive nous that comes with being a natural fullback as you say, but he is very harshly criticized for the most part. Rafael at his best is better, but he needs a run of games to get to his best, and that very rarely happens with his injury record, and so that's just more chopping and changing in the team. It's better to have consistency at the back with Valencia, to form an understanding with the players around him, rather then have the position change every few games because of injuries.

 

[MTR]

6.2 Average rating
6.6 Your rating

Guess van Gaal thinks otherwise.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Rafael makes the entire right side of the pitch better when he plays. You can't say that about Valencia or Mcnair or any other player thrown in.

 

[bugmat]

But it really isn't that simple. When Valencia needed to be rotated he chose McNair at right back instead of Rafael. I cannot speak for others but I can absolutely understand why he likes Valencia. Van Gaal's full backs play far higher up the pitch than normal full backs and one of Valencia's greatest strengths is his ability to shield and keep the ball under pressure. He is brilliant at it. Van Gaal values possession above all else. I believe he also sees Valencia as a "safer" player.

I just happen to think that he's wrong. In a team that struggles for balance and cannot seem to be both an attacking threat and a competent defensive unit with the same line up, including a full back who is better defensively and more creative than the incumbent appears a no brainer. Also, Rafael's detractors criticise him for giving fouls away and making mistakes. Conceding stupid needless fouls is the biggest flaw in Valencia's game and the goal against Arsenal (given the game, the opposition and the stage of the season) was one of the worst and most costly mistakes by a United defender in many years.

Valencia has some positive features but Rafael is just a significantly better right back.

Just below Smalling not contesting that Kompany header in theyear City won the league, Rafael getting red carded vs Bayern when we had a path to the finals almost sewn up, and Evans getting sent off for the 6-1 in the year we lose by goal difference... so actually not really. We've had many defenders over the year with brain farts. This game is not less crucial than those were except now we're fighting for the famous 4th place trophy. Riio was one defender who had regular brain farts for a few years when he just came. Jones has had many a costly mare for us too the past 2 years.

I agree Rafael is the better RB when on form, because Valencia though doing very well over the season isn't experienced as a defender, but your argument as to why has flaws in itself given how well he's played bar the last game.

 

[Devil may care]

So the boss enjoyed his performance and his goal.


Now who was it saying he wouldn't like to see a fullback doing what Rafael did?

The whole "he'll play him as a wingback" and "LvG only likes safe, boring players" is this seasons "We are gonna buy Osman."

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Just below Smalling not contesting that Kompany header in theyear City won the league, Rafael getting red carded vs Bayern when we had a path to the finals almost sewn up, and Evans getting sent off for the 6-1 in the year we lose by goal difference... so actually not really. We've had many defenders over the year with brain farts. This game is not less crucial than those were except now we're fighting for the famous 4th place trophy. Riio was one defender who had regular brain farts for a few years when he just came. Jones has had many a costly mare for us too the past 2 years.

I agree Rafael is the better RB when on form, because Valencia though doing very well over the season isn't experienced as a defender, but your argument as to why has flaws in itself given how well he's played bar the last game.

None of those things were anywhere near as bad as Valencia's mistake against Arsenal. Losing a header to Kompany is understandable, Rafael was sent off for some ticky tack fouls and City were already pistol whipping us when Evans was sent off.

 

[Gannicus]

@Pogue Mahone



I disagree mate.

Rafael is a better right back than Valencia both offensively and defensively, even if we're talking about post 2012/ 2013 or just this current season. eg. Look at his performances vs West Ham or Everton from this season which were as good as his 2012/ 2013 form).

But that gets overlooked or underrated or forgotten because he has started just 6 games under Van Gaal in the regular season making the sample size minimal. The only thing (IMO) holding him back from being our long term starter is his dodgy fitness record. If we was consistently fit, Valencia wouldn't get a whiff at RB. Therein lies the problem, if he's fit right now, why not just plug him in, instead of persisting with a player who is more suspect in terms of his positional discipline for the role (not that I blame Valencia mind - it's not his natural position).

Wisely chosen words.

Rafael is fit and he's got a nice tan. Play the man at RB!

 

[Pexbo]

So the boss enjoyed his performance and his goal.


Now who was it saying he wouldn't like to see a fullback doing what Rafael did?

Interesting what he said about confidence. It's something a lot of people never consider when they are demanding that player X should be playing. He might be having a bit of a tough time of it lately and not training well so the club have lightend the load on him and given him some U21 games to get back into it.

The fact he hasn't played very well in them up until now says a lot too.

But no, throw him straight in again, he's our best right back.

 

[caid]

Interesting what he said about confidence. It's something a lot of people never consider when they are demanding that player X should be playing. He might be having a bit of a tough time of it lately and not training well so the club have lightend the load on him and given him some U21 games to get back into it.

The fact he hasn't played very well in them up until now says a lot too.

But no, throw him straight in again, he's our best right back.

He wouldn't strike you as a player that suffers from low confidence but then, you'd never know would you?

 

[Pexbo]

He wouldn't strike you as a player that suffers from low confidence but then, you'd never know would you?

He's not one you would think to make his game more conservative as a result of lack of confidence like Valencia did. I think he's possibly suffering from a lack of confidence in the same way Jones does though. They are instinctive players who play at breakneck speed and get stuck in. With confidence and a clear head it can result in excellent performances.

Short of confidence and with doubt in their mind it can result in poor decision making. They can be caught in two minds about committing or holding off and they might be more prone to do something out of fraustration.

 

[POF]

Just below Smalling not contesting that Kompany header in theyear City won the league, Rafael getting red carded vs Bayern when we had a path to the finals almost sewn up, and Evans getting sent off for the 6-1 in the year we lose by goal difference... so actually not really. We've had many defenders over the year with brain farts. This game is not less crucial than those were except now we're fighting for the famous 4th place trophy. Riio was one defender who had regular brain farts for a few years when he just came. Jones has had many a costly mare for us too the past 2 years.

I agree Rafael is the better RB when on form, because Valencia though doing very well over the season isn't experienced as a defender, but your argument as to why has flaws in itself given how well he's played bar the last game.

Congratulations. That is the most confusing post I have read on this forum. You agree with the point but not the reasoning? You dispute that it was one of the worst recent errors by mentioning just 3 other examples (none of which were anywhere near as bad) and one of them was from 5 years ago. Even if the others were worse (they weren't) isn't it still one of the worst?

Arsenal are the ultimate confidence team. Gifting them a confidence boosting win when they are big rivals in a run in could be really costly.

I've not been impressed with Valencia at all this season. I really don't know where this idea that he has had a good season has come from. He's suspect defensively, gives away numerous needless fouls and provides no attacking threat.

 

[POF]

Interesting what he said about confidence. It's something a lot of people never consider when they are demanding that player X should be playing. He might be having a bit of a tough time of it lately and not training well so the club have lightend the load on him and given him some U21 games to get back into it.

The fact he hasn't played very well in them up until now says a lot too.

But no, throw him straight in again, he's our best right back.

Being dropped in favour of Valencia and McNair won't have done much for his confidence.

 

[ChrisG11]

The way he brings the ball forward is an attacking threat and very underrated, it's easy to forget that was what created our goal vs Arsenal as well. It boils down to the fact he's not a natural right back and will look out of his depth positionally in every big game. I'm seething at the mistake for the 2nd goal but that's all it was, it's not a common fault in his game like his lack of awareness of what's behind him, it was just an unfortunate instance that we'll never see again from him.

 

[RedMachine03]

@manutd
United boss Louis van Gaal says Rafael is in his thoughts as he ponders his #mufc team for Tottenham.

 

[El-Manos]

He might start and it would be fully deserved tbh.

 

[Amir]

[But that gets overlooked or underrated or forgotten because he has started just 6 games under Van Gaal in the regular season making the sample size minimal. The only thing (IMO) holding him back from being our long term starter is his dodgy fitness record. If we was consistently fit, Valencia wouldn't get a whiff at RB. Therein lies the problem, if he's fit right now, why not just plug him in, instead of persisting with a player who is more suspect in terms of his positional discipline for the role (not that I blame Valencia mind - it's not his natural position).[/USER]

[USER=19580]

[COLOR=#000000]I would have had no issues with Valencia taking Rafa's place in Van Gaal was insistent on making the back four as stable as can be. But when he makes changes at Half time against Arsenal and in between matches as well, I don't see the point. So we play Rafa a few games and he gets injured to we switch to Valencia... At least we got a few games from our best right back.[/COLOR][/user]

 

[Revan]

I wonder if there is any chance that LVG didn't really put Rafael out of the team because he doesn't rate him, but instead if it was a way of managing his injuries. You know, like saying him to take the needed time, became match fit on the reserves, monitorate his progress instead of rushing him on the first team where he would inevitably get injured.

Maybe wishful thinking but it would be great if he'll play (and don't get injured) on the rest of the matches. Because, a fully fit and confident Rafael is a great player and would make us much better.

 

[Water Melon]

I wonder if there is any chance that LVG didn't really put Rafael out of the team because he doesn't rate him, but instead if it was a way of managing his injuries. You know, like saying him to take the needed time, became match fit on the reserves, monitorate his progress instead of rushing him on the first team where he would inevitably get injured.

Maybe wishful thinking but it would be great if he'll play (and don't get injured) on the rest of the matches. Because, a fully fit and confident Rafael is a great player and would make us much better.

It seems to be the reality, not wishful thinking. I am sure we will see Rafael playing in the main team soon.