Zabaleta will be right back in the team of the year and rightfully so as he's been class. Don't think Johnson will be anywhere close, while Rafael will probably just miss out. And Sagna... well Sagna has no fecking chance.
Rafael da Silva | 2010-14 Performances
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Again it's about anticipation - Higuain's setting himself for a low, driven ball across - Vidic has closed out most of the space required for a lofted ball. As the ball goes past Rafael he's not in control of the situation - he's hoping that Ronaldo doesn't get on the end of it. Ronaldo gains 3 yards on Rafael within the space of 10 yards: he's clearly culpable.
We are nit-picking as the cross and finish were excellent, but those are the margins which decide games at this level.
Rafael's looking at Ronaldo when Higuaín's already past Vidic - that's why he got caught flat-footed. If Higuaín stood it up and Rafael had taken a step back it would've put him in a position to get out and attack the ball or step back and watch the line. This just left him desperately struggling to get anything on it, even if he did stand it up at the back post Rafael still wasn't in a position to deal with it - he gained nothing from reacting once Ronaldo had stolen a yard on him. I reckon Neville would've dealt with it differently.
1. He's the attacker and obviously has the advantage here in this situation, if you don't understand that, you don't understand football.
2. 3 yards? really? He gains about 0.5 yards max. See the gif below. You really have misunderstood if you think he gains 3 fecking yards on him. The entire run is only about 6 yards ffs.
Ronaldo is faster than Rafael and the ball has about 2 more yards to travel after Rafael before it reaches Ronaldo, both of these things lead to that 0.5 yards.
Seriously, the idea that Rafael is at fault here is one of the most stupid things I've ever seen on this place.
Brwned, ffs... Rafael has to wait to see what Ronaldo does before making his move. Wow man, just fecking wow!! Gary Neville would've been completely fecked.
Seems some fans just need to have someone to point the blame at for every lose/goal we concede
Looking at that gif, it seems like Rio was dealing with his man in exactly the same way that Rafael was trying to deal with Ronaldo? It's almost identical and if the ball went to Kaka instead then he would've put it away.
It's pathetic.
Ronaldo is at the back post and still has to slide and strech to reach the ball, Rafael would either have to run back to his goal line a second earlier than Ronaldo makes his run like a complete fecking idiot or it's a goal, he aint fecking getting there and the idea that Neville would of... well, that's just some stupid re-writing his history, Neville was a great defender but he'd have been fecked here.
of course Rio is doing the same thing, because that's the only way you defend this situation.
God this is pissing me off, I'm actually getting serious annoyed with the stupidity in here. I think it's time for me to leave before Brwned starts brandishing his daft banning stick.
I think a longer gif would change some people's minds on this matter, when Ozil has the ball Rafael is doing the correct thing in being close as possible to Ronaldo. His creativity with the flick gave the attackers that extra moment to get the better of the defence, Vidic, Rio and Rafael, and that's what caused the goal.
Anyway, this is a pretty painful discussion to have.
Anyway, this is a pretty painful discussion to have.
Even if he somehow got to the ball what would he have done? It would've been very difficult to clear it from that position. Yes Ronaldo was Rafael's man but there wasn't a whole lot he could've done.
Yep. It's the type of ball that needs to be cut out before it comes into the box. Otherwise the attacker is always likely to be able to put it away or an own goal is conceded.
It's strange, I think Pete is a good poster, and one of the most knowledgable on the forum, but it's obvious he goes on the occasional WUM driven by whatever agenda he has. Some people refuse to see it though, convince themselves that he is actually talking sense, and then go to lengths to argue his own pretty ridiculous point for him! I'm sure he is laughing to himself everytime a poster picks up one of his WUMs and runs with it!
It was a great pass by Ozil and a great cross by Higuain. Only on the Caf do you see such overanalysis on the goals we concede.
I think the whole backline got caught out by the Ozil backheel and swift cross.
Ronaldo's at full stretch to meet that and what is he like 3/4 inches taller than Rafael?
Hopefully this will end the argument.
It's a pic of the ball at it's closest point to Rafael that also shows where Ronaldo is at that point where Ronaldo's eventual slide is. Without the slide Ronaldo would be nowhere near the ball. And even with the slide Ronaldo still wouldn't get to the ball there if he was in the full back position. This isn't even mentioning the fact that the ball travelled a little further to Ronaldo so he made up at least another yard before making that slide. There is absolutely no question looking at this that if Ronaldo attacks that ball exactly as he did from Rafael's position (tucked inside as he must be) then Ronaldo himself does not get to the ball, it goes out for a throw in.
So even if Rafael reads Ronaldo's mind and starts running at the very same nano second as him, and is as fast as Ronaldo and as tall as Ronaldo.... he doesn't doesn't get the ball.
Only on the fecking caf would that be the fullbacks fault, fecking insane
Yep, its insanity to say he was at fault there. Cant understand why people cant simply give credit where its due. fantastic cross to the paciest player in the opposition. Half a foot to either side or anyone else back there instead of ronaldo and there would be no goal to dissect to death in order to find a scapegoat.
It's about anticipation, otherwise man-marking is an impossible job and defenders are forever powerless reacting to what attackers are doing.
Rafael's a yard ahead of Ronaldo as the move develops. He is then two yards behind the ball when Ronaldo slides it in.
Please stop talking utter shite Gio, it's just clogging up my photobucket account. I've posted a pic above that rubbishes your "anticipation" theory, even Ronaldo himself wouldn't have reached the ball from the fullback position.
But anyway, just for the fecking record, it's half a yard, as I said (unless of course you think the pic below shows 2 yards...
3=1+2. And why did Ronaldo end up where he did? He anticipated where the ball was going to go unlike someone else.
Ronaldo is the attacker, the fullback has to stay inside him.
If you'd played at a level above Sunday League you'd know this. As proved above, even Ronaldo's run stood in the fullback position doesn't reach the ball.
Ronaldo's slide from his position at the point where the ball is closest to Rafael.
Oh look, he's miles away from the ball.
It's also worth noting that the difference between Rio and Kaka and Rafael and Ronaldo is almost identical in every way. Rio is the best defender I've ever seen at this club fwiw, especially when it comes to this "anticipation" Gio keeps mentioning.
Why can't people just accept it's a good goal, you're really going to give the lad a hard time over a yard vs. arguably the best finisher of his generation? Ok. Vidic got caught out by the pass from Ozil and gave Higuain too much space too if you want to be hypercritical. I find it interesting Pete has only piped up about Rafael 3 times this season, at the start, after Reading and the 2 legs vs. Real. Yes Rafael has defensive shortcoming but he's 22 FFS.
What do you make of Rio doing the exact same thing as Rafael when dealing with Kaka during the same situation?
Hard to fault Rafael if he's following our most senior defenders lead.
He anticipated it at the same time as Rafael, he just had a moment longer to get there and the extra height advantage, as well as no nagging feeling that he may score an own goal.
Why do you keep mentioning the OG possibility? Rafael as proven in this pic has no chance of getting to the ball, even Ronaldo doesn't get there with his run if he's in the fullback position and slides in from when the ball is closest to the fullback.
As I said, Ronaldo is still miles from the ball, so Rafael certainly had no chance of getting there.
Why do you keep mentioning the OG possibility? Rafael as proven in this pic has no chance of getting to the ball, even Ronaldo doesn't get there with his run if he's in the fullback position and slides in from when the ball is closest to the fullback.
As I said, Ronaldo is still miles from the ball, so Rafael certainly had no chance of getting there.
Yeah, that's true. Just trying to get across how much of a difficult situation it was for Rafael really, and that trying to attribute any blame to him is really clutching at straws.
At the very worst, Rafael did no more wrong than Rio and Vidic (Rio does exactly what Rafael does, and going by the stringent 'anticipation' factor being put forward, Vidic 'fails to anticipate' Ozils pass), two of the greatest defenders of thier generation, yet we have our own fans trying to single out our young full back for it. It's quite annoying really.
There's the white line showing even Ronaldo doesn't make the ball from the fullback position so can we shut up about own goals, anticipation, sliding in, mind-reading etc etc. It's just a fecking perfect ball. Rafael had absolutely no chance.
Even if you blame him, he was never sleeping, as people are accusing him to.
There's the white line showing even Ronaldo doesn't make the ball from the fullback position so can we shut up about own goals, anticipation, sliding in, mind-reading etc etc. It's just a fecking perfect ball. Rafael had absolutely no chance.
basically Rafael is at fault for not being as quick as ronaldo over 5 yards and an inch perfect ball (ie one inch closer to rafael and its cleared or one inch closer to de gea to kick out)
im with you I'm always right, I just think while Rafael may have been caught unawares it took three special plays to turn it in and that it should be more credit to the attackers than fault of the defenders.
Just going back to the main and most important point that some people seem to be ignoring. Top class cross from Higuain you cant do too much about them
There's the white line showing even Ronaldo doesn't make the ball from the fullback position so can we shut up about own goals, anticipation, sliding in, mind-reading etc etc. It's just a fecking perfect ball. Rafael had absolutely no chance.
I brought the own goal possibility up earlier only to suggest that even if he had gotten to the ball before Ronaldo there wasn't a whole lot he could even do from that point. Like you said it was just a good goal and there wasn't much Rafael could've done to stop it.
The only reason Ronaldo wouldn't have reached it from Rafael's starting position would have been if he was similarly flat footed on the turn.
I played right-back against an SPL side a couple of months ago, but really you don't need high-level experience to spot that Ronaldo's read the situation better, anticipated where the ball was going and that Rafael is flat-footed on the turn (weight on his heels). In his defence it's a penetrating ball and he's marking a machine in exposing momentary lapses in concentration, but ultimately it's his man that has scored the goal. I've never been in a situation where the man I've been marking has scored a goal and not shouldered some of the responsibility for it.
Rafael didn't put him onside, he was behind the ball. Can't see how Rafael could've done better. And I don't mean, the obvious choice of predicting correctly Ronaldo's move.
Agree with Gio on this. Its a cracking cross and Ronaldo anticipates it well but i also play full back and would certainly apportion some blame to myself if i was in that situation. Not significant blame but i would think i could have anticipated it better. Rafael should have been proactive rather than reactive in this case.
I love the little fecker, but he could have done better on this occasion. Its not an undefendable situation.
I love the little fecker, but he could have done better on this occasion. Its not an undefendable situation.
It's not an impossible situation for the full back no but you have take into account who he was marking, one of the fastest and greatest players ever, and the angle of the ball. The ball's too far out for De Gea to get and too close to the goal for Rafael to get. For either to get to the ball they'd have to take massive gambles. They played it safe and got burned by one of the greatest players ever and a wonderful cross.
Rafael should have been proactive and continued his run to defend the area infront of the keeper, not hesitated, looked round and be caught flat footed. A fullback will always take responsibility for defending that channel, and i think even by his reaction he thought he could have done a bit better. He could have gave himself another yard on Ronaldo and been in a better position to defend the situation.
You mean he should have run forward and played Ronaldo onside instead of doing like Rio and keeping the line in case there's an offside?
Yes. feck the offside when you've got a penalty box to protect and one of the most dangerous forwards in the world trying to sneak in behind you
It's a joke - any cnut who has played fullback at any level realises he should have got across the attacker,
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