[iBoss]

That can't be true, can it? He's scored a handful of goals for them hasn't he? That was the impression I had but admit I can't be arsed to check.

He's score a couple for England, I think two in the league and a hat trick in Europe.

 

[Phil Duck]

Football has become a fickle sport.

 

[Adebesi]

Welbeck wanted the move. Before Van Gaal turned up he was pushing for a move.

Football players are also just so fickle, they really are.

When did his contract run till though? Was it till the end of this season?

Anyway, my Welbeck comment was originally intended as a joke, no point in getting into a big debate about it here.

 

[Speak]

If it was one in, one out (and that was the rational for getting rid of Welbeck) yes I would have ditched RvP. I would also argue that an opinion formed over an entire season (and a WC tournament in which I was really unimpressed by his overall form) isn't particularly fickle. If we could have held onto all of them, sure, I'd be ok with that. Like you, I'm not too fussed about people getting frustrated on the bench. The more competition for places the better IMO. Makes us a stronger team. Of course, I can understand why a manager might consider that an unnecesary headache.

Of course, I think the fact we've got three superstar strikers is inherently problematic. As our manager seemed intent on trialling weird formations to give them all a game. Which does seem to endorse the idea that two superstars and two "up and comers" would have given us a better balance.

You can add me to the 'would have let van Persie go and kept Welbeck, if possible' group too.
You're then looking at a more versatile set of strikers. Three up top is very doable too.
I appreaciate van Persie's role in number 20, but I've never been too attached to him, and believe he hindered us in ways.

Realistically it wasn't going to happen, because very few clubs who'd want/need van Persie could pay his wages, and he wasn't ever as open to moving as Welbeck,.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You can add me to the 'would have let van Persie go and kept Welbeck, if possible' group too.
You're then looking at a more versatile set of strikers. Three up top is very doable too.

Realistically it wasn't going to happen, because very few clubs who'd want/need van Persie could pay his wages, and he wasn't ever as open to moving as Welbeck,.

This is true. So I guess we have to accept that it's Falcao in = Welbeck out.

Hopefully the wisdom of the decision will be borne out as the season progresses. Falcao is obviously a really top class player, so fingers crossed it's onwards and upwards from here.

 

[Adebesi]

Neither of you are mentioning the sentimental aspect. Would Van Gaal have come in and axed his friend and confidant? Hard to see it. The old Dutch softy that he is.

 

[JUPITER]

Football has become a fickle sport.

It really has.

In my day once you'd formed an opinion you stuck with it for 3 score and 10.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Neither of you are mentioning the sentimental aspect. Would Van Gaal have come in and axed his friend and confidant? Hard to see it. The old Dutch softy that he is.

Yeah, that's a big factor too. He won't even fecking drop him, so expecting him to sell him was more than a little unrealistic.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

If we're being honest I don't think there is any manager in the world who would have done that (sold an ally at a new club like Van Persie).

 

[KeninDC]

The expected role for Falcao was not like when Michael Owen was signed-a veteran who could play in spots and be a nice addition to the squad. Instead, as someone said above, Falcao was brought in to be an integral part of the first XI. He has been unable to to this so far, we've been told because of jet lag and a knock.

That he will make a full recovery and get back to his pre-surgery form is, IMO not a 100% certainty. Not every athlete makes a full recovery from ACL repair. And, I am concerned, based on Ogden's reporting that Falcao didn't follow the typical rehab protocol for ACL surgery recovery.

And, yes, I'm increasingly skeptical about his calf injury being the sole reason for his absence. He may very well have been kicked in training, but he also could have issues with his knee.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Neither of you are mentioning the sentimental aspect. Would Van Gaal have come in and axed his friend and confidant? Hard to see it. The old Dutch softy that he is.

Yeah, that's a big factor too. He won't even fecking drop him, so expecting him to sell him was more than a little unrealistic.

And neither of you mention that we would've lost to Chelsea and wouldn't have won against West Ham if it weren't for Van Persie. Would be lovely to see the the caf and especially the Welbeck thread if that had happened. First choice #9 was always going to be RVP or Rooney for Van Gaal and rightly so, that's why Welbeck wanted to move and we signed Falcao.

Didn't Radamel play for Columbia in the last international break? I vaguely remember him either playing with a little strain and scoring, or scoring and picking up a strain afterwards, but I'm not certain if that was the case. If it was though, why the hell did we let such an expensive player who just came back for injury and hadn't settled fly around the world? And if he really played with a strain, how is that possible, insane risk taking and we're reaping the rewards now.

Maybe Van Gaal felt obliged because Falcao himself wanted to play for Columbia and because LvG was a National team coach, and maybe Falcao was 100% fit when playing for Columbia, but it still strikes me as borderline insane.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

And neither of you mention that we would've lost to Chelsea and wouldn't have won against West Ham if it weren't for Van Persie. Would be lovely to see the the caf and especially the Welbeck thread if that had happened. First choice #9 was always going to be RVP or Rooney for Van Gaal and rightly so, that's why Welbeck wanted to move and we signed Falcao.

Didn't Radamel play for Columbia in the last international break? I vaguely remember him either playing with a little strain and scoring, or scoring and picking up a strain afterwards, but I'm not certain if that was the case. If it was though, why the hell did we let such an expensive player who just came back for injury and hadn't settled fly around the world? And if he really played with a strain, how is that possible, insane risk taking and we're reaping the rewards now.

Maybe Van Gaal felt obliged because Falcao himself wanted to play for Columbia and because LvG was a National team coach, and maybe Falcao was 100% fit when playing for Columbia, but it still strikes me as borderline insane.

Scored an absolute belter of a header in the first game and had a very good goal disallowed in the second one.

I do remember something about him carrying a niggle into the second of the two fixtures, which annoyed me at the time.

 

[Adebesi]

And neither of you mention that we would've lost to Chelsea and wouldn't have won against West Ham if it weren't for Van Persie. Would be lovely to see the the caf and especially the Welbeck thread if that had happened. First choice #9 was always going to be RVP or Rooney for Van Gaal and rightly so, that's why Welbeck wanted to move and we signed Falcao.

Didn't Radamel play for Columbia in the last international break? I vaguely remember him either playing with a little strain and scoring, or scoring and picking up a strain afterwards, but I'm not certain if that was the case. If it was though, why the hell did we let such an expensive player who just came back for injury and hadn't settled fly around the world? And if he really played with a strain, how is that possible, insane risk taking and we're reaping the rewards now.

Maybe Van Gaal felt obliged because Falcao himself wanted to play for Columbia and because LvG was a National team coach, and maybe Falcao was 100% fit when playing for Columbia, but it still strikes me as borderline insane.

Take it up with Pogue, I never wanted to sell RVP. I thought his attitude was a bit questionable last year but for me it is way too soon to be concluding that he is past it. I expected him to be back to his old self this year under a manager who knew him very well and would know how to get the best out of him.

 

[izec]

He is class, injury prone at the moment though. Dont know why people jump on his back for being injured, it is not liek half of our squad is injured. We even dont know what it is, people assume knee injury for no reason. Just when you think it couldnt get worse, the Welbeck lovers start comparisions.

 

[Bilbo]

Rather than Welbeck leaving because Falcao came in, I suspect its more likely than Falcao came in because Welbeck wanted out. We knew we were taking a risk with a player recovering from a serious injury, hence the loan.

I think we also realised that if the worst came to the worst we had Van Persie (who I think has earned more time to rediscover his form), Rooney and Wilson as options.

 

[Adebesi]

He is class, injury prone at the moment though. Dont know why people jump on his back for being injured, it is not liek half of our squad is injured. We even dont know what it is, people assume knee injury for no reason. Just when you think it couldnt get worse, the Welbeck lovers start comparisions.

Who is jumping on his back though? Its not his fault he's injured.

People take everything so personally. As in, assuming it is a personal thing against Falcao. Its not.

 

[Escobar]

There were rumours in March already that Welbeck wanted out. It is how it is and I'm confident Falcao will be brilliant for us

 

[Speak]

And neither of you mention that we would've lost to Chelsea and wouldn't have won against West Ham if it weren't for Van Persie. Would be lovely to see the the caf and especially the Welbeck thread if that had happened. First choice #9 was always going to be RVP or Rooney for Van Gaal and rightly so, that's why Welbeck wanted to move and we signed Falcao.

Didn't Radamel play for Columbia in the last international break? I vaguely remember him either playing with a little strain and scoring, or scoring and picking up a strain afterwards, but I'm not certain if that was the case. If it was though, why the hell did we let such an expensive player who just came back for injury and hadn't settled fly around the world? And if he really played with a strain, how is that possible, insane risk taking and we're reaping the rewards now.

Maybe Van Gaal felt obliged because Falcao himself wanted to play for Columbia and because LvG was a National team coach, and maybe Falcao was 100% fit when playing for Columbia, but it still strikes me as borderline insane.

Would we have been playing with 10 men, or what?
There's a difference between him scoring the winner and us being unable to win without his presence.

 

[Truedevil]

LvG confirmed he's still injured.

 

[thejtrain]

This is fecking sickening everyone wants to remain in the infirmary forever. How many players injured now? What are they all made of? Glass?

 

[ManUSarge]

I've come on here to see if Falcao had a chance to play this weekend. After reading the last two pages I am left thinking this: It's a bit hypocritical for Caf members to have a go at Liverpool for hailing Balotelli as they did when they bought him but turned on him when he started being Balotelli....when the caf exploded with glee when we signed Falcao only to read the comments on here now calling him out to be the next Shevchenko and how his career at United will never amount to anything. Seems a bit RAWKish to me. Pogue put it well when he said that football fans are fickle. It surely does not exclude some of you lot. For me, I expect to see good things from Falcao. It's no good that he is injured (if he still is) but I think he will prove invaluable to us in our trek toward top 4.

 

[Bwuk]

Agreed that it's no good when he's injured. If we rush him back he's just going to keep getting injured. A fully fit Falcao is tremendous, and we should be aiming to get him fully fit before playing him.

 

[togg]

Well...everything we say about Falcao is going to be speculation. It's one of two things really. He'll either recover totally and become a lethal goal machine again, or he'll end up out of the team more often than not. We'll know probably by next April! No doubting his ability....just I think being Novermber, it's ok to speculate on his fitness.

 

[Dion]

Good stuff. An example of a player Falcao's age or older who didn't have to score a goal a game in his first few fixtures at a new club in order to end up a major success (talking about his stint at Milan and PSG, obviously).

Ibrahimovic scored 5 in 7 in his first season at Milan and 5 in 4 in his first season at PSG? Ibra is a bad example (one I was tempted not to use but his general performances at Barca in his early few games swayed me) because he didn't actually get that bad a start at Barca anyway.

Ok, so you're predicting that his career will mirror Shevchenko's. Fair enough. You seem to be basing that they both had a decent start "oozed class on the ball and was great off it, gets an early goal or two" which is a strange basis to predict a future flop.

Well, given he's not had his full career here yet I would have thought it was obvious there was a predictive element. Next time I'll try and be more explicit. Please don't snip off bits off my quote, the missing bit is "it never quite comes together for them like it used to and the goals don't come at the rate everyone expects."

That's important. If the magic isn't there at the start it doesn't come, and it isn't with Falcao. It wasn't with Shevchenko either, people started saying how great his holdup play was and how good his runs were because in the end he wasn't getting on the end of chances with regularity and the few he did get he wasn't converting regularly. Give it a few more matches without a goal and I can guarantee there will be comments in this thread about how tidy he looks, how good his holdup play is and how hard he works off the ball. All the stuff that's great in a striker who is scoring goals but really not what you want to be talking about as the primary things your 'world class' striker is bringing to the team.

See above. I thought we're agreeing that Falcao hasn't got off to a slow start? He's actually been decent enough, as was Shevchenko.

No? We really aren't. You continually misrepresent my initial description of Falcao as a positive when it isn't. Like Shevchenko it's got plenty of style but no substance, and when the substance isn't there at the start it doesn't usually come.

In answer to your question, Luis Suarez is 27 and has had a slow start at Barca. I suspect he will still turn out to be a great signing.

So a prediction about someone younger without the injury who has just come off a ban for biting? Not the strongest.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Ibrahimovic scored 5 in 7 in his first season at Milan and 5 in 4 in his first season at PSG? Ibra is a bad example (one I was tempted not to use but his general performances at Barca in his early few games swayed me) because he didn't actually get that bad a start at Barca anyway.


Well, given he's not had his full career here yet I would have thought it was obvious there was a predictive element. Next time I'll try and be more explicit. Please don't snip off bits off my quote, the missing bit is "it never quite comes together for them like it used to and the goals don't come at the rate everyone expects."

That's important. If the magic isn't there at the start it doesn't come, and it isn't with Falcao. It wasn't with Shevchenko either, people started saying how great his holdup play was and how good his runs were because in the end he wasn't getting on the end of chances with regularity and the few he did get he wasn't converting regularly. Give it a few more matches without a goal and I can guarantee there will be comments in this thread about how tidy he looks, how good his holdup play is and how hard he works off the ball. All the stuff that's great in a striker who is scoring goals but really not what you want to be talking about as the primary things your 'world class' striker is bringing to the team.




No? We really aren't. You continually misrepresent my initial description of Falcao as a positive when it isn't. Like Shevchenko it's got plenty of style but no substance, and when the substance isn't there at the start it doesn't usually come.


So a prediction about someone younger without the injury who has just come off a ban for biting? Not the strongest.

I assumed the bit in bold was all part of your prediction, though. Rather than a summary of his handful of games so far. Hence I didn't include it. It would be crazy to draw a conclusion like that already. Bearing in mind the width of a crossbar is all that prevented him racking up 2 goals and 2 assists, in 4 games (as well as the width of a post preventing the assists from being bumped up to 3).

Have left all the rest of your post un-edited, as per your request.

EDIT: I am with you on the shades or Shevchenko here. Have a bad feeling about this deal. I just think it's too soon to talk about him as a flop, considering how's been the one consistent presence in all our best attacking football this season.

 

[kouroux]

Is there any truth to all those reports basically saying that Falcao is not "just" on loan at Utd but he's already been bought ?

 

[SATA]

Falcao is earning great money at United being injured. Did LVG say how long he's out for?

 

[Varun]

Is there any truth to all those reports basically saying that Falcao is not "just" on loan at Utd but he's already been bought ?

Nothing's confirmed but I do think its a done deal already.

 

[Moriarty]

Bit of a gamble and always was. I'm happy to see such an accomplished player at United but if he can't stay fit, what's the point? The Premier league is far more physical that either the Spanish or French leagues so will he, once he's fit again, stay injury free for the extended periods we'll need him for during the winter months.

 

[kouroux]

Nothing's confirmed but I do think its a done deal already.

If that's the case, is it not another (stupid ?) risk ?

 

[Varun]

If that's the case, is it not another (stupid ?) risk ?

If he ends up crocked most of the season, Yes. Do think there would be a get out clause in that regard considering his injury before the move.

 

[Getsme]

Nothing's confirmed but I do think its a done deal already.

Don't believe that for a second. It's a loan deal until the end of the year IMO.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Surely we wouldn't spend £40+ million on a player that that's so injury prone and quite old. There must be a clause in the contract we've made for how many appearances he makes or something.

I still believe he is destined for Real Madrid though.

 

[McMarmite]

Wilson is the reason welbeck moved. I have always seen wilsons ceiling being higher than welbeck's. He just has the raw qualities that for me welbeck does not to maks it as a guaranteed starter game in and game out.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

If that's the case, is it not another (stupid ?) risk ?

It is still only a loan deal but an agreement is in place if United decide to go ahead with the purchase. Obviously if he turns out to be constantly injured it is unlikely that United will take up the purchase option

 

[Amar__]

So van Gaal pretty much confirmed that he is injured, but also that there is no place for him in the team? At least judging by that video from press conference(was it discussed anywhere else on forum?).

 

[Kakeru]

The Premier league is far more physical that either the Spanish or French leagues

That is a little bit surprising considering how many players of African descent, often coming from the mould of being tough bastards, are playing in Ligue 1.

 

[Firstouch20]

People still crying about Welbeck? Go on twitter, Arsenal fans are sick of him already. Giroud is nearly back to full fitness and will bench him soon which is a sad indictment of any striker.

 

[GE]

Should have signed the lad on a bloody pay-as-you-play loan deal.

Such a shame, you can tell the lad appreciates the support from our fans at the games and is desperate to become a cult hero here. I just can't see it happening though, I can't see him returning and then having a run right through till the end of the season. It's inevitable he'll get a "knock" and be out for weeks again.

 

[Moriarty]

That is a little bit surprising considering how many players of African descent, often coming from the mould of being tough bastards, are playing in Ligue 1.

I haven't seen too many top level French league games in truth, but the games I have watched haven't matched the average Premiership game for pace and robustness, if that's the right word.