This is key for me. Falcao isn't even our player yet, we sshouldn't be spending a year trying to nurse him back and paying for the privilege of being able to do so. Not unless we were 100% on signing him, in which case why bother with the loan in the first place?
9
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
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- Goals
- 4
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 2
- Status
This is key for me. Falcao isn't even our player yet, we sshouldn't be spending a year trying to nurse him back and paying for the privilege of being able to do so. Not unless we were 100% on signing him, in which case why bother with the loan in the first place?
I think he's ours if we want him. If we had to decide now, I wouldn't. It's hard to see what we've gained from this very expensive deal thus far.
He was very good against Newcastle but he looked like a headless chicken at times today, I stood up when he was 1 on 1 with Lloris because I'd be banking on a player of his calibre to absolutely bury those chances he had and win us 3 points. He might have lost some confidence today which can't be good.
He should be putting away most of the chances he had today, but at least he's getting into dangerous positions to score in the first place and surely nobody is realistically questioning his finishing based on his performances in this league alone? unless he's done some kind of a Torres, I wouldn't be worrying. His finishing touch will return and those chances will become two or three goals.
I still think he'll come good and will be vital to us securing a top four spot.
I still think he'll come good and will be vital to us securing a top four spot.
Yeah, a few chances had me wondering before this also, but then the great technique for his goal sort of made me put it to the side. It's something I'll have to keep an eye out for.
I would say he looked "heavy legged" at times today. But let's be honest where else would he have played 2 high demand football matches in 48 hours?. England is a different animal in terms of physicality which he will need to adapt too.
It's a shame we didn't have a fit midfield as ideally LVG could have rested 1 of Rooney/RVP/Falcao against Newcastle and then swapped them today.
Anyway the main thing is he is getting on the end of these chances, people were worried about his "running style" and bollocks like that. He is getting on the end of the chances, just needs to get back to his goalscoring best.
It's a shame we didn't have a fit midfield as ideally LVG could have rested 1 of Rooney/RVP/Falcao against Newcastle and then swapped them today.
Anyway the main thing is he is getting on the end of these chances, people were worried about his "running style" and bollocks like that. He is getting on the end of the chances, just needs to get back to his goalscoring best.
This! We had to play RVP how many games before he came good? And it wasnt even a fitness issue with RVP.
Ball retention and pass completion are hugely different things, particularly when playing up front. Strikers lose the ball most when the ball is played into them - 50-50s, aerial challenges, holding off the defender with the back to goal - and this is something that van Persie is really exceptional at. Falcao at his best is very, very good at this too. Falcao right now isn't. He's not on the same wavelength with his team-mates, he's half a second behind the play and he's clumsily bringing the ball under control and recycling possession.
If we want to try and boil this down to stats then you can look at the number of times he was dispossessed and the number of "unsuccessful touches" he has. I'm not sure how either of these are calculated but they paint a pretty clear picture. He was dispossessed 9 times and he had 3 unsuccessful touches. Without context those numbers mean very little to me, but when you put it in context of the rest of the players on either team it tells an awful lot. The entire Tottenham team were dispossessed 11 times, and everyone in the United team bar Falcao were dispossessed 10 times in total. He had the joint-highest number of unsuccessful touches too.
In other words he lost the ball far more than anyone else on the pitch through things besides passing, and that doesn't take into account the number of times he was half a second behind the play and didn't even reach the ball in the first place (which ironically were from many of van Persie's "misplaced" passes). You can illustrate a lot of things with these stats but without the context they tell you very little in truth.
What I saw was a Falcao that was still very rusty, very laboured and very workmanlike, and that's what he's been like in practically every appearance. I think the only game that bucked that trend was against Villa and a quick glance at the stats tells you he was "dispossessed" a grand total of 0 times. Newcastle too actually and he was dispossessed just twice then. That to me is a much more telling stat then pass completion for a forward and it shows that today he was particularly bad in that sense but even then it doesn't come close to telling the full story.
I still maintain that the Falcao we're seeing now is a really sorry shadow of the player we saw at Atléti and the people praising him for these kind of performances are doing him a huge disservice because he is so, so much better than this in every facet of play. Right now he's clearly not fully fit, he's clearly lacking confidence and as a result of that he's trying to hard, he's too much in his head and he's over-complicating very simple things. In short he's going through the same thing van Persie went through for the first two months of the season and he's had niggly injuries on top of that which have prevented him from getting enough game time to play through it and get back into shape. If we're going to persist on playing Rooney in midfield then I'm very confident Falcao will get his mojo back and get into double figures but he's still a long way away from that right now.
I still think that buying Falcao was one of the stupidest signings we've made in years - and as many people have said there have been plenty of them - because if you're paying a player that much and you have a player of that quality then you absolutely have to play him, and yet he plays in a position where we already have two players that are in the exact same position. I think it was simply a case of Woodward saying to van Gaal: "you want genuine quality, this is who we can give you, all you have to do is find a way to fit him in" and van Gaal went with it, but if van Gaal really pushed for him then I think it's a colossally stupid decision. Rooney is fine in midfield and it's great to have an extra body capable of supporting the attack but he's clearly not at his best there, so we're hindering our best player to fit in a player we didn't need in the first place. I don't get it at all.
Jorge Mendes has already said the reason for the loan was purely financial and that Falcao has essentially joined us on a permanent basis but the full transfer was delayed by a year for whatever reason. Something to do with spreading the revenue out for FFP or something like that.
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Very good post, agree with pretty much everything
Great whole post, but this little snippet is something that is really, really bothering me at the moment.
These are Rooney's peak years, he's in brilliant scoring form, and we're shunting him into midfield so we can play two number 9s at the same time - neither of whom are as dangerous as Rooney is right now. It's literally mental.
I can only agree with the last few posts and specially @Brwned 's.
I'll give Falcao the benefit of the doubt for Sunday's performance and assume he was struggling to recover physically from Friday.
On playing Rooney in midfield, one assumes that the manager is doing it as a temporary expedient because his only good fit midfielder is Carrick. I'd expect Rooney to replace Mata or Falcao once more midfielders are recovered.
On playing Rooney in midfield, one assumes that the manager is doing it as a temporary expedient because his only good fit midfielder is Carrick. I'd expect Rooney to replace Mata or Falcao once more midfielders are recovered.
A lot of drama in here, as is always the case on the Cafe.
Two years ago Falcao was a top 3 or 4 player in the world. He's been pretty much injured since he got here. It's hard to come back from the serious injury he had, and hit the ground running. But to get where he has gotten in the game requires incredible dedication, determination, hard work, and talent. He has scaled heights that no-one else in this squad has ever matched (some may argue this point), so I think he deserves some time to rediscover his fitness and form. Van Gaal isn't sentimental. He has a track record of dropping big names. I find the argument that we are nursing him back to health for someone else to benefit to be absurd. In his brief recovery time he has been decent in almost every game. Even today, when he didn't play so well, he worked hard.
I really don't care how much he costs either, or what we are paying him. United isn't a club where money is an issue. He was good against Villa, only his second start of the season. Less so against Spurs just 43 hours later. But on the basis of this limited sampling there are people providing "expert" analysis. Surely the same experts that have written off countless youth products, even to the point of scapegoating and berating them but who, no doubt, in a month's time will completely change their tune if he starts rediscovering his best form.
He has 2-3 years left at his prime, which is being conservative given that his game never relied on pace. Van Gaal likes experienced strikers who are clinical in front of goal. You don't ever lose that, not really, and Falcao will prove that soon enough, once the rust is cleared away. If Van Persie goes down with injury, he suddenly becomes one of our most important players, because we don't have another no.9 of that quality.
Far, far too many conclusions and theories being bandied about on the basis of limited evidence, and limited knowledge. Falcao is one of the smartest and most driven professionals in the game, by all accounts, and I am excited to see what he can achieve over the rest of the season. I'm certainly not expecting miracles because I recognize that he is actually a human being, rather than a line of code in Football Manager. But if we do succeed in helping him return to top form, we will have one of the best strikers in world football on our books.
Personally, I love to see players of his caliber in a United shirt. It's symptomatic of the club's ambition to be back at the head of the table. It's a shame that people's memories are so short, and their patience so absurdly limited. Success is demanded instantly, understanding is in short supply, players are 'over-the-hill' at 30, pace is over emphasized, and sweeping condemnations or hyperbole are the order of the day.
I trust the club to make the right decision here, both financially and strategically. With regards to Falcao, the United player, I'm not making any judgement call based on just three starts, two months apart. I wish I could say that I am surprised that others would, but sadly I'm not. Modern football fans are like spoiled children.
Two years ago Falcao was a top 3 or 4 player in the world. He's been pretty much injured since he got here. It's hard to come back from the serious injury he had, and hit the ground running. But to get where he has gotten in the game requires incredible dedication, determination, hard work, and talent. He has scaled heights that no-one else in this squad has ever matched (some may argue this point), so I think he deserves some time to rediscover his fitness and form. Van Gaal isn't sentimental. He has a track record of dropping big names. I find the argument that we are nursing him back to health for someone else to benefit to be absurd. In his brief recovery time he has been decent in almost every game. Even today, when he didn't play so well, he worked hard.
I really don't care how much he costs either, or what we are paying him. United isn't a club where money is an issue. He was good against Villa, only his second start of the season. Less so against Spurs just 43 hours later. But on the basis of this limited sampling there are people providing "expert" analysis. Surely the same experts that have written off countless youth products, even to the point of scapegoating and berating them but who, no doubt, in a month's time will completely change their tune if he starts rediscovering his best form.
He has 2-3 years left at his prime, which is being conservative given that his game never relied on pace. Van Gaal likes experienced strikers who are clinical in front of goal. You don't ever lose that, not really, and Falcao will prove that soon enough, once the rust is cleared away. If Van Persie goes down with injury, he suddenly becomes one of our most important players, because we don't have another no.9 of that quality.
Far, far too many conclusions and theories being bandied about on the basis of limited evidence, and limited knowledge. Falcao is one of the smartest and most driven professionals in the game, by all accounts, and I am excited to see what he can achieve over the rest of the season. I'm certainly not expecting miracles because I recognize that he is actually a human being, rather than a line of code in Football Manager. But if we do succeed in helping him return to top form, we will have one of the best strikers in world football on our books.
Personally, I love to see players of his caliber in a United shirt. It's symptomatic of the club's ambition to be back at the head of the table. It's a shame that people's memories are so short, and their patience so absurdly limited. Success is demanded instantly, understanding is in short supply, players are 'over-the-hill' at 30, pace is over emphasized, and sweeping condemnations or hyperbole are the order of the day.
I trust the club to make the right decision here, both financially and strategically. With regards to Falcao, the United player, I'm not making any judgement call based on just three starts, two months apart. I wish I could say that I am surprised that others would, but sadly I'm not. Modern football fans are like spoiled children.
I like him, but spending 45 on him instead of using that money as part of the Bale offer or giving it to Reus to get him to choose us would be madness.
In terms of spending big money, the central defence, right back, the wide positions and central
midfield should all have greater priority than a position where we already have two very good players (one of whom is playing some of the best football of his career). We'd really need to see something exceptional in the next few months to justify the outlay as we can't base that kind of investment on what he did at Atletico two years ago. On the evidence to date, it is just as likely that he is following the Torres route (albeit with a better attitude and more raging against the dying of the light).
midfield should all have greater priority than a position where we already have two very good players (one of whom is playing some of the best football of his career). We'd really need to see something exceptional in the next few months to justify the outlay as we can't base that kind of investment on what he did at Atletico two years ago. On the evidence to date, it is just as likely that he is following the Torres route (albeit with a better attitude and more raging against the dying of the light).
I don't think its a case of spending money on him instead of anyone.
I think we are going to buy him regardless and will buy anyone else we need despite that outlay.
I also think the club have huge faith in Wilson and having RVP phasing out over the next two years and Falcao hopefully phasing out in 4 years despite people calling it an "old" attack I think the balance is good. It means in 2 seasons time we will be able to buy another top striker and have Wilson (21/22), Falcao (30/31) and new striker who is hopefully at a prime age.
Bale isn't coming here, and we already spent a summer not spending a penny in the hopes of landing one of Bale/Ronaldo/Fabregas and look how that turned out.
Yesterday was 'one of those days' with regards to finishing. Rooney, Mata and RVP all missed chances they would bury any other day. It's no surprise that Chelsea and City also drew and I feel the fixture congestion is part of the problem. For Falcao to go from 20mins a week in competitive fixtures to 90mins multiple times isn't great for him or us and our expectations are naturally quite high for a player of his calibre.
I'm optimistic about the coming home fixtures and him finding some confidence and bullying teams like we have seen for years.
I'm optimistic about the coming home fixtures and him finding some confidence and bullying teams like we have seen for years.
I dont remember Falcao being 1 on 1 yesterday? Have I blanked something?
Its like some of you never watched football before today. He wasn't good, but most are making large overarching judgments about his ability based on 1 (one) poor game. Get a fecking grip.
The chance where Mata put him through in the first half and defender got back enough to get a deflection on the shot and it went straight at Lloris.
To be fair he shouldn't have been playing that game yesterday. Guy has hardly played this season and asking him to play two games in 48 hours is too much. Sadly we had no alternatives.
Oh yeah. 1 on 1 makes it sound easier than it was but yeah, still expect better from him there.
But I agree with you, should never have started yesterday. 2 weeks ago he wasn't fit to start, now he can start 2 times in 3 days?
Yep. He was excellent less than 48 hours earlier against Newcastle. I actually popped into this thread at half time yesterday because I thought he'd done alright in that first half and we'd played well in general and people were shitting on him. RVP misses the easier chances as it goes largely unmentioned. People have weird agendas for certain players.
Useless yesterday. His all round game has never been impressive throughout the years but yesterday he look as limited as Hernandez. He brought great energy to the game but it started and pretty much ended there.
Why would someone have an agenda against Falcao? He says all the right things, he works his bollocks off and he's obviously got bags of talent. There's no possible reason for someone to have an agenda against him. Perhaps people just see things differently.
I'm not overly interested what he can do outside the box. Welbeck outside the box was better then Falcao. We saw glimpses and i'm disappointed that he didn't take one of his chances but let's be fair. He's out of sync. He's had no pre season at least he's now out there during the cold months to be counted. Even if we don't want to pay the fee I hope we re-negotiate and I think Falcao would be happy with that. Let's make sure we keep up the positive vibes for him and he'll come good.
Some probably have an agenda because that's their way of already accepting (maybe) it's not going to work out and we're not going to pay the fee. Doesn't really matter if you like someone. I bet they're secretly hoping he can turn it around.
Some probably have an agenda because that's their way of already accepting (maybe) it's not going to work out and we're not going to pay the fee. Doesn't really matter if you like someone. I bet they're secretly hoping he can turn it around.
Who knows? They miss Wellbeck? Want Wilson to start? Have some 45 million transfer muppet player in mind instead of Falcao? All I know is he played well in the last couple of games before yesterday yet people were shitting on him as soon as half time yet the RVP thread gets no attention despite him missing the better chances and being as anonymous in the second half. His wages or injuries or something cause people to overreact massively to Falcao.
Terrible performance from him, I thought he looked overwhelmed by the tempo of the game and how little time he had on the ball, that’s why he was dispossessed so many times. Overall his play was very poor but I’m not very concerned about that, I think he can and will be much better for us.
Still, his movement is great. I really want him to make it here. I thought Van Persie had better chances to be honest (not that it changes anything).
Still, his movement is great. I really want him to make it here. I thought Van Persie had better chances to be honest (not that it changes anything).
He was knackered yesterday, hence the poor finishing. If you've played football before (and I'm guessing most here have) - then you surely know what it feels like when trying to shoot after your legs have gone from tiredness!
I don't think most had too much of an issue with Falcao's finishing, it's natural that players will miss chances and Van Persie and Mata, both of whom played better, missed clearer opportunities. The issue for me (and some others) is that even in the games where he's played better, his touch has been really awkward and he seems to be struggling to run in that he looks like he's falling over half of the time.
The over reactions here are nothing new, flavour of the month or what ever you call it.
On another day he would have buried his chances and would have been regarded as the best striker in the world again. On to stoke city...
On another day he would have buried his chances and would have been regarded as the best striker in the world again. On to stoke city...
The problem is not with the amount of money we might spend on him - the club can afford it, and it's not our money - it's whether he has shown enough to warrant his signing.
Many people are saying 'I'd sign him if he was £25m, but not £43m,' but what difference does it make? It's not likely that we will go without signing other players just so we can sign him.
I don't think he has shown enough so far, and I doubt he will show enough to justify signing him in the time he has left. There are probably better options for us out there.
Many people are saying 'I'd sign him if he was £25m, but not £43m,' but what difference does it make? It's not likely that we will go without signing other players just so we can sign him.
I don't think he has shown enough so far, and I doubt he will show enough to justify signing him in the time he has left. There are probably better options for us out there.
Tbf to him Fazio is 6" 5 while he's only a 5" 10. In terms of height Fazio absolutely towers over him. He's a beast when he's attacking the ball from crosses and ball hit into the box because he's an excellent header of ball. Winning nod downs and flick ons are different matters. Its fine if he can't win those aerial battles because we are structured around dominating the second ball. Its his sloppy touch and possession play which were hugely disappointing yesterday.
kinda looks like Forlan the way he runs
People are ignoring this conveniently - he was great vs Newcastle...he isn't used to the league (only 6 starts) AND no one outside of England plays so many games in a week during the cold Christmas period. He was obviously physically jaded.
He's clearly good, like outrageously good but there's several things going against him. The obvious one being the injury and the time he's spent out of the game, the next him being unhappy at Monaco, next he moved to England on a loan (practically a trial) and lastly the English media are ruthless.
I really want him to be a success here but I can't see it happening. His runs have been world class so I wonder if we had a Pirlo in midfield would he have more goals? The same could be said for any striker with great movement though.
As the season passes by fast, he's under even more pressure to produce goals in a shorter space of time, not that I doubt he won't score more goals but you could get most players in the world for £45 million and the said £250k a week.
I really want him to be a success here but I can't see it happening. His runs have been world class so I wonder if we had a Pirlo in midfield would he have more goals? The same could be said for any striker with great movement though.
As the season passes by fast, he's under even more pressure to produce goals in a shorter space of time, not that I doubt he won't score more goals but you could get most players in the world for £45 million and the said £250k a week.
Not that interesting, but I read a stat saying he made the most fouls out of any PL player that played yesterday.
I like him and want him to succeed but I think posters on here overrate his goal scoring ability, he will need to continue assisting as he has done to justify that price tag. Posters on here talk about him regaining Athletico Madrid form so if he did that he would score about 70 goals in 91 games which is a fantastic record but how many of those were penalties?
I'm not sure where to find these stats but I read an article that stated he scored in 2012 - 13 for Madrid in the league 28 goals in 34 games however 8 of those were penalties so if he weren't taking penalties here then that would equate to 20 goals in 34 games putting him at the level of Negredo and Soldado in terms of non-penalty goals scored.
It could be a load of bull I don't know, it's here though:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nchester-united-is-taking-a-risk-with-falcao/
So this is Non-Penalty Goals per 90 minutes and Penalty Goals per 90:
This is a combined chart for the two seasons he was at Athletico Madrid showing how he ranked in terms of contribution from goals and assists:
Essentially he is a fantastic player who will surely contribute plenty but probably not worth the investment since we already have enough number 9s and 10s, we could just play 1 up top if needed and we would probably be better off signing a Robben type player, somebody who will be a winger in a 4-3-3 but could still play as a 9 in the diamond but will drift to the flank and run at players, I quite like the two up top but with a Robben type winger who can play through the middle as a RF but drifts to the right flank and then Angel di Maria as a LCM but drifts to the left flank.
I'm not sure where to find these stats but I read an article that stated he scored in 2012 - 13 for Madrid in the league 28 goals in 34 games however 8 of those were penalties so if he weren't taking penalties here then that would equate to 20 goals in 34 games putting him at the level of Negredo and Soldado in terms of non-penalty goals scored.
It could be a load of bull I don't know, it's here though:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nchester-united-is-taking-a-risk-with-falcao/
So this is Non-Penalty Goals per 90 minutes and Penalty Goals per 90:
This is a combined chart for the two seasons he was at Athletico Madrid showing how he ranked in terms of contribution from goals and assists:
Essentially he is a fantastic player who will surely contribute plenty but probably not worth the investment since we already have enough number 9s and 10s, we could just play 1 up top if needed and we would probably be better off signing a Robben type player, somebody who will be a winger in a 4-3-3 but could still play as a 9 in the diamond but will drift to the flank and run at players, I quite like the two up top but with a Robben type winger who can play through the middle as a RF but drifts to the right flank and then Angel di Maria as a LCM but drifts to the left flank.
Fantastic post !
Agree with everything !
The chances he has squandered since joining, Rooney would score them all day. Why are we playing our best striker in midfield when we have plenty of midfielders? What's that all about? Falcao can't do anything that Rooney can't except those headers and his movement. It's just pointless and we're reducing the balance by playing him and rvp up top.
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