Racist Maccabi Tel Aviv thugs instigate violence and criminal damage on trip to Amsterdam

[SilentWitness]

The attempts to deny that a lot of the violence was not motivated by anti-semitism speaks for itself.
Asking people to show their passports speaks for itself.
It was a pogrom.
We know what it was.

Kind of feels like you've fell for the media bait. A pogrom? Ffs.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Aren't Ajax a Jewish club? It has nothing to do with Judaism in my opinion.

Ajax fans weren't really involved in this.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

Ajax fans weren't really involved in this.

Ah, my understanding was it was Ajax fans retaliation. Well then, this has even less to do with football then. Just a few gobshites getting a few slaps.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

No it wasn't.

Denying it does not prove it's not the case.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Themselves and the governments they want to have on their side. You think they care about the public?

I know they don't care, but I would understand if it was serving a specific political agenda and maybe a special interest agenda but this extent of being extremely one sided towards Israel even in this situation where it is common hooligan football fans will cause trouble everywhere they go (not saying other hooligans are singing about kids in Gaza being killed) they could just said aah this football hooliganism and whatnot, but they all cried anti semitism, this is something else and I am your average cynical fella.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Ah, my understanding was it was Ajax fans retaliation. Well then, this has even less to do with football then. Just a few gobshites getting a few slaps.

It was a bit more than that honestly. The violent hooligans got what they deserved for all I care, but random bystanders were also asked to show their passports to prove they weren't Jewish under threat of violence. And while Israel is committing horrendous crimes, that's still not ok.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

I’ve only read one article. Those three paragraphs came from it. It would have to be about 50 pages long for them to represent only 1% of the coverage (it isn’t)

It’s incredibly naive to pretend that there wasn’t an antisemitic element to this violence. As naive as pretending that all of the Maccabi fans were innocent victims.

"Amsterdam police have made more than 60 arrests after what authorities called “hateful antisemitic violence” against Israeli football fans.

A plane carrying football supporters brought home from the Dutch capital by the Israeli government landed on Friday at Israel’s Ben Gurion airport after the clashes on Thursday, which took place after a Europa League match between Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv.

The mayor of Amsterdam, Femke Halsema, described an “outburst” of antisemitism with “hit and run” attacks on the visiting supporters.

“Men on scooters crisscrossed the city looking for Israeli football fans. It was a hit and run. I can easily understand that this brings back memories of pogroms,” Halsema said. “Our city has been deeply damaged. Jewish culture has been deeply threatened. This is an outburst of antisemitism that I hope to never see again.” "

That's how the Guardian article starts. It paints a picture of thugs riding around beating people up because they're Jewish. Just saying there were "incidents on both sides" a couple of times later on doesn't do much for that picture.

If it would have started with disclosing that visiting supporters tore down flags and smashed up taxis, shouted "kill the Arabs", "gas Gaza" and "your children are dead", followed by taxi drivers organising and attacking them, it would have painted a different picture. One without the main focus being antisemitism.

Whatever you believe here about what happened and what is right and wrong, it's really clear that the media has a strong slant on this. I wonder what is going on in the West and Israel right now for the media to have such bias?

 

[johnnyteutonic]

Kind of feels like you've fell for the media bait. A pogrom? Ffs.

It's hard not to look at it through that lens for me and I think I speak for a lot of the community, at least based on those I've spoken to.

I will say it's hard for many of us to distinguish between legitimate critiques of Israel and the IDF, and hatred of Jews.

 

[Acrobat7]

Shouldn’t this be in the Current Events forum? This thread will get locked at some point anyways.

 

[SilentWitness]

It's hard not to look at it through that lens for me and I think I speak for a lot of the community, at least based on those I've spoken to.

I will say it's hard for many of us to distinguish between legitimate critiques of Israel and the IDF, and hatred of Jews.

I can understand that in other situations but in regards to this one I find it hard to understand how you've reached that conclusion given the behaviour of the Maccabi fans and what the media has been unwilling to share about it. It's not hard to find and has been shared in this very thread.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

"Amsterdam police have made more than 60 arrests after what authorities called “hateful antisemitic violence” against Israeli football fans.

A plane carrying football supporters brought home from the Dutch capital by the Israeli government landed on Friday at Israel’s Ben Gurion airport after the clashes on Thursday, which took place after a Europa League match between Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv.

The mayor of Amsterdam, Femke Halsema, described an “outburst” of antisemitism with “hit and run” attacks on the visiting supporters.

“Men on scooters crisscrossed the city looking for Israeli football fans. It was a hit and run. I can easily understand that this brings back memories of pogroms,” Halsema said. “Our city has been deeply damaged. Jewish culture has been deeply threatened. This is an outburst of antisemitism that I hope to never see again.” "

That's how the Guardian article starts. It paints a picture of thugs riding around beating people up because they're Jewish. Just saying there were "incidents on both sides" a couple of times later on doesn't do much for that picture.

If it would have started with disclosing that visiting supporters tore down flags and smashed up taxis, shouted "kill the Arabs", "gas Gaza" and "your children are dead", followed by taxi drivers organising and attacking them, it would have painted a different picture. One without the main focus being antisemitism.

Whatever you believe here about what happened and what is right and wrong, it's really clear that the media has a strong slant on this. I wonder what is going on in the West and Israel right now for the media to have such bias?

It starts with facts and a quote from the mayor of the city involved. That’s what the media do. Establish facts and use quotes provided by the main protagonists. By all means ask yourself why the mayor said what she did but that’s not the media’s fault. You can read the post from @KirkDuyt on the previous page if you want to know if the mayor has an underlying Zionist agenda.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

It's hard not to look at it through that lens for me and I think I speak for a lot of the community, at least based on those I've spoken to.

I will say it's hard for many of us to distinguish between legitimate critiques of Israel and the IDF, and hatred of Jews.

It really shouldn't be hard, it is extremely easy to distinguish and tell.

 

[Mike Smalling]

It really takes a special kind of scumbag hooligan to travel to another country and openly and loudly brag about the genocide being committed by their country. I have no doubt that the worst of the Maccabi fans were at least as racist and awful, as the response they got. What other fan group can openly chant about "f*cking" an entire race of people, and still end up getting most of the sympathy from the media and public officials? There seems to be a clear predisposition to treat Israelis as the victims, no matter the exact events.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Not really. She's also very progressive. I think it's a bit of a reaction for the flack she's getting for allowing a Pro-Gaza protest on matchday. Which, honestly, was a very dumb decision. And to be fair, there were definitely also unprovoked attacks on none hooligans and even random people who were suspected of being jewish. This incident just reflects on the endless horror in Gaza. It's both groups laying 100% of the blame on the other.

There were both violent hooligans who got what they deserved as well as antisemitic attacks.

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

It starts with facts

It didn't though, it started with facts from one side, no mention of what the Maccabi fans did in the headline or in the opening paragraphs.

 

[Devil_forever]

Kind of feels like you've fell for the media bait. A pogrom? Ffs.

A pogrom is a violent riot incited with the aim of massacring or expelling an ethnic or religious group, particularly Jews.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It didn't though, it started with facts from one side, no mention of what the Maccabi fans did in the headline or in the opening paragraphs.

The 60 arrests and the airplane are facts. Ditto the numbers hospitalised. Specific things done by fans are more allegations than facts.

I do agree the headlines are all very dramatic and go in hard with the antisemitic angle but they write themselves when the mayor of the city involved comes out so strongly with that statement. The main thing is, the article as a whole includes balanced reporting on what happened. Unlike the OP of this thread.

 

[ryansgirl]

Disgraceful behaviour from both sides but if a section of the Maccabe fans did set out to antagonise Amsterdam residents with Arabic/Palestinian origins, said and chanted vile words about the Palestinian and Lebanese war victims of Israel`s military offensive, ripped down Palestinian flags, engaged in insulting and discriminatory chants based on ethnicity and religion and insulted all locals by disrupting a minute of silence for victims of a natural disaster then the response was hardly surprising.

Those Maccabe fans who did all or some of that need to be called out by authorities and the media instead of benefiting from false analogies with Jewish victims of very real pogroms conducted against Jewish civilians throughout different historical periods. Not all the Maccabe fans would have done this but the club and the country of Israel have to take some responsibility for those thugs who they permitted to travel. Don`t tell me this occurred outside any previous context.

 

[Fugeeface]

seriously, your defending the antisemitic attack.

How deep does your cognitive dissonance go? The Israeli hooligans clearly started it all, beat up people in true coward's fashion and behaved horribly from the second they arrived. They were held accountable.

But they're the victims in this, right?

 

[Fugeeface]

Disgraceful behaviour from both sides but if a section of the Maccabe fans did set out to antagonise Amsterdam residents with Arabic/Palestinian origins, said and chanted vile words about the Palestinian and Lebanese war victims of Israel`s military offensive, ripped down Palestinian flags, engaged in insulting and discriminatory chants based on ethnicity and religion and insulted all locals by disrupting a minute of silence for victims of a natural disaster then the response was hardly surprising.

It's not if. This happened. There are countless videos of their despicable behaviour that includes violence, racist chants, open provocation and lots of other low life activities. This isn't alleged or hearsay.

 

[Fugeeface]

The attempts to deny that a lot of the violence was not motivated by anti-semitism speaks for itself.
Asking people to show their passports speaks for itself.
It was a pogrom.
We know what it was.

That's an outrageous lie. Please check a history book. Back in the day when a real pogrom happened, the victims were not running around in the streets beating and provoking strangers. They were helpless victims confronted with an organized effort against them. That's not what happened Thursday night and you know that very well.

 

[DWelbz19]

Now even Biden reacted lamenting the anti semetic attacks. The media spin on this is mental.

They fecking started it.

Netanyahu has the gall to speak of pogroms.

That tweet is absolutely mental.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

It starts with facts and a quote from the mayor of the city involved. That’s what the media do. Establish facts and use quotes provided by the main protagonists. By all means ask yourself why the mayor said what she did but that’s not the media’s fault. You can read the post from @KirkDuyt on the previous page if you want to know if the mayor has an underlying Zionist agenda.

I mean sure, if you think articles paint a truthful picture just because they are factual, without considering how the article is structured and what is omitted. The article could have as easily started with the violence, genocidal language and vandalism by the visiting fans that triggered this incident.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

It really shouldn't be hard, it is extremely easy to distinguish and tell.

Not for me and many others, evidently.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

That's an outrageous lie. Please check a history book. Back in the day when a real pogrom happened, the victims were not running around in the streets beating and provoking strangers. They were helpless victims confronted with an organized effort against them. That's not what happened Thursday night and you know that very well.

I've read many history books. Hell, I was taught from a young age what a pogrom was.
In fact, I may be guilty of looking at it through a too historical lens, as it is a bit reminiscent of Kristallnacht. The pretext the Nazis used was the actions of Grynzspan.

Perhaps I am wrong on this occasion but maybe try and understand the perspective that comes when you are taught from a young age that the world does not like you.
I can acknowledge I can be a bit sensitive and reactive to these kinds of things though.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

This definitely isn’t a football conversation.

 

[duffer]

I've read many history books. Hell, I was taught from a young age what a pogram was.

It's "pogrom", isn't it?

 

[Solius]

Yeah you're really making this space safe and totally not anti-semitic.
From a Jew.

Sorry for saying that dickheads deserve consequences regardless of their religion or race.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

It's "pogrom", isn't it?

A typo, I already edited my response.

 

[Solius]

Do you really think all the Macabi fans who were attacked were involved in those chants? Isn’t it more likely that some of their fans are total scumbags but many aren’t? Like most football fans.

With a similar proportion of local scumbags dealing out unprovoked violence vs those involved in justifiable retaliation against scumbag Israelis?

The OP (and thread title) is as biased as any of the mainstream media reporting. That can happen when you spend hours every day immersed in an echo chamber on Musk’s hellsite.

No way of knowing but I know if there’s a bunch of twats chanting stuff like that I’m definitely not walking alongside them.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

Sorry for saying that dickheads deserve consequences regardless of their religion or race.

You believe in collective punishment it seems? A bit ironic.

 

[Solius]

The attempts to deny that a lot of the violence was not motivated by anti-semitism speaks for itself.
Asking people to show their passports speaks for itself.
It was a pogrom.
We know what it was.

If they were asking for passports then yes that is targeting based on anti-semitism. Nobody would deny that. Both things can be true though in that some were just being absolute cnuts and got consequences.

 

[Solius]

You believe in collective punishment it seems? A bit ironic.

Nope. See reply above.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

The 60 arrests and the airplane are facts. Ditto the numbers hospitalised. Specific things done by fans are more allegations than facts.

I do agree the headlines are all very dramatic and go in hard with the antisemitic angle but they write themselves when the mayor of the city involved comes out so strongly with that statement. The main thing is, the article as a whole includes balanced reporting on what happened. Unlike the OP of this thread.

Yeah I can see that too. Hard not to react based on what the OP posted.

 

[StamsShinyHead]

I hope Robbie Keane is proud that he sold out to go manage these cretins for a year.

 

[johnnyteutonic]

If they were asking for passports then yes that is targeting based on anti-semitism. Nobody would deny that. Both things can be true though in that some were just being absolute cnuts and got consequences.

Alright, that seems a bit more measured. For the record, I obviously think the behaviour of some of those ultras was absolutely disgraceful.

 

[HTG]

The minutes silence that got disturbed, was it about the flood in Spain or something I have missed?

 

[johnnyteutonic]

The minutes silence that got disturbed, was it about the flood in Spain or something I have missed?

Yep it was.

 

[Bright_Eyes]

I've read many history books. Hell, I was taught from a young age what a pogrom was.
In fact, I may be guilty of looking at it through a too historical lens, as it is a bit reminiscent of Kristallnacht. The pretext the Nazis used was the actions of Grynzspan.

Perhaps I am wrong on this occasion but maybe try and understand the perspective that comes when you are taught from a young age that the world does not like you.
I can acknowledge I can be a bit sensitive and reactive to these kinds of things though.

There might have been some level of antisemitism involved. People come in all varieties, and some of those varieties are scumbags. I just dislike that the media have spun it as the main cause, when it appears that there was a lot of provocation from the travelling fans, to say the least. I've seen antisemitism claimed before for dubious reasons, and this appears to be one of those cases.

 

[Mike Smalling]

The minutes silence that got disturbed, was it about the flood in Spain or something I have missed?

Yes, and probably they did it because Spain is one of the few European countries that has offered pushback to the genocide.