Racism incident in PSG v Istanbul match

I was talking to my Romanian friend earlier and asked him about the incident since I heard the ref was Romanian. He said to me that the word in question is very similar to a racist term we would deem here. As in it sounds that way in his language but it's by no means offensive.

Surely If that's the case then it's taken out of context no?
 
No. I answered the question about how they could know their names. And by the way, nowadays the licenses and teamsheets or on tablets which is suppsed to be in possession of the fourth referee.

:lol:
 
Man everyone has a story, I went to England many a time and got called paddy and had to be searched at train stations and airports. Do I find Paddy offensive, no ,does my black family member being called "black" offend them no, they are proud. I don't get your point.
The point is really very simple: you don't get to chose how other people should feel.
 
This whole things seems like a big misunderstanding that's gonna destroy one guy's career/life. People on social media are already going full pitchforks mode.
 
Patrick Owomoyela (dark skinned former Dortmund player) was on german Sky and described what happened as a "misunderstanding" or "lost in translation" because the referee basically said "black" in romanian language.

In german the most polite way would have been to say "dunkelhäutig" (which means dark skinned) but I wouldn't judge someone as racist if he says "schwarz" (black).

Is this different in english and english speaking countries? Is "black person" something racist?

I've been to Japan and was often referenced as the "big white guy". I didn't have any problem with it whatever, but obviously I've never faced racism like people of color, so they may have a different opinion on terms like this.

Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just curious and open to learn.
I lived in Japan for several years and speak the language reasonably well. Surely they called you "gaijin" or "gaikokujin" mate?
 
So, in your scenario, your boss asks you who Sam is - there are three people in a room and you are just outside - one lady, one black guy and one white guy. Scenario 1 - Sam is the lady. How do you tell your boss which individual is Sam? Scenario 2 - Sam is the white guy. How do you tell your boss which individual is Sam?
I would attempt to describe the others first, focusing on descriptors like attire, hair color, positive height (tall, not short). Then gender. Wouldn’t state race unless absolutely necessary, then only to the boss & no one else. Wouldn’t let someone overhear.

But, using attire, hair color, positive height, & gender will allow you to be accurately descriptive of three different people every time. There isn’t a situation where you would have to use a racial descriptor in such a closed environment. It’s simply unprofessional to use one in such a fluid environment like a sporting event where an inappropriate word could be so easily misconstrued.
 
Someone does I suppose (thankfully that person is nobody on here! )... But that still doesn't change the fact that the fella in question still has ever right to have been upset.

Even if it all turns out to be a giant misunderstanding, I'm sure the ref in question will still apologise... Because that would be the decent and sensible thing to do when you offend someone - even if you didn't mean too.

I agree and personally I didn't intend to question his "right to be upset". For me it was more about the consequences for the referee and how to deal with similar situations in the future.
 
So? You remember every player from the 2010 World Cup? Or 2014?


A Dutch or German player with 227 La Liga appearances and two World Cups in the 21st century would be a known name to almost any football fan. Just saying.
 
I think your completely missing the point. Did the coach sound happy to be referred to as ‘the black one’? What about Demba Ba? Are they social justice warriors? Or maybe they are fed up of being described by their skin colour first and foremost

Everyone is right to how they feel. IF you feel he felt aggrieved fair enough.
 
What's wrong with calling a black person , black? Just tell me? They have fought for it long enough and now YOU say they cant be called it? I find this a very odd discussion. Basically if there was one black person in a crowd of 6, you cant refer to their skin colour? :lol: You seem to want to make it more of an issue than it is, like a game of Guess Who.

Context. Player explains, a white player is never called "That white one." That's the point; You had club, coat, number, NAME you could have used and you reach for at best
"That black one"
 
What's wrong with calling a black person , black? Just tell me? They have fought for it long enough and now YOU say they cant be called it? I find this a very odd discussion.

Do you not think you could engage your brain for two seconds and think that maybe, given the fact that BOTH teams walked off the pitch in clear upset and anger at what happened that maybe your insistence that what happened is in no way, shape, or form, racist might be misplaced?

You're far from the worst culprit in this thread, but it's a shame that all of the arbiters of racism are posting on redcafe. Perhaps, Uefa could appoint you all to games and you can tell the teams in person that they are wrong to take offence and should get on with playing football.
 
What people need to realise is, if someone believes they have been identified based just on the colour of their skin (in a professional setting no less) and that has upset them... Then it is not yours, mine or anyone elses right to say whether or not that is justified.

And even thinking that you can somehow say whether they're wrong to feel that way is kind of shitty.

And if you call then a "snowflake" or whatever other shit term you come up with, then that makes you a massive twat.
Thank you :)
 
No. I answered the question about how they could know their names. And by the way, nowadays the licenses and teamsheets or on tablets which is suppsed to be in possession of the fourth referee.

And what is the likelihood that they might remember any of those names if they're not already familiar with them? I'd say it's pretty low.

Since we're now adding tablets to the discussion, in the heat of that moment, is it reasonable to expect the fourth official to refer to his tablet knowing that the referee is looking for immediate clarification? Probably not. And if he uses the guy's name, is the referee going to know who he's talking about?
 
As with everything in life there's always going to be a limit....
I will never be so arrogant to presume to tell a black person they shouldn't be offended when someone categorizes primarily by the colour of their skin. I haven't lived that life, I cannot possibly understand how they would feel.
 
Context. Player explains, a white player is never called "That white one." That's the point; You had club, coat, number, NAME you could have used and you reach for at best
"That black one"

Why is "black" such an abrasive point? Again, I don't get this, should they be ashamed?
 
A Dutch or German player with 227 La Liga appearances and two World Cups in the 21st century would be a known name to almost any football fan. Just saying.
"Almost any" football fan, are you kidding me? I myself didn't know Pierre Webo. I guarantee you most wouldn't.
 
I appreciate your opinion, but it has nothing to do with this discussion. There were Jews that didn’t mind wearing or seeing a swastika - does that mean other Jews should not feel offended by it?

I never claimed to speak for all black people, never would, and I have no idea why you would think otherwise from what I wrote. It says more about you that you interpreted it that way.

I'm not assuming that any poster who's opinion I read is speaking for some monolith of white thought.
 
That's true in a way but eventually somebody has to estimate if it actually was derogatory since the victim can't simultaneously be the judge.
That’s why such language can’t be used in professional settings.
 
And what is the likelihood that they might remember any of those names if they're not already familiar with them? I'd say it's pretty low.

Since we're now adding tablets to the discussion, in the heat of that moment, is it reasonable to expect the fourth official to refer to his tablet knowing that the referee is looking for immediate clarification?

It seems that you are trying to advocate for something I haven't accused him about. In this thread there isn't a moment I have judged the situation or expected anything.
 
People genuinely don’t have a clue what real racism is anymore. Everyone is offended for someone.
True.

This whole things seems like a big misunderstanding that's gonna destroy one guy's career/life. People on social media are already going full pitchforks mode.


You're right and it's scary. It really is.

People need to utilize common sense a bit more frequently.
 
A Dutch or German player with 227 La Liga appearances and two World Cups in the 21st century would be a known name to almost any football fan. Just saying.

You're fecking kidding, right? :lol: I mean, instantly recognizing Van der Meyde these days would impress me.
 
Sorry, different decorum from a social setting v. a professional setting. Do you not see a need for such?

Nope, but I dont see how if I was talking about a team I was in control of I couldn't call him by his name. You are still missing the point, you seem to think being called black is an insult, its very odd.
 
Without going into a discussion about whether it is acceptable to refer to others by the color of their skin, this incident clearly escalated because the ref used a word that is easily misperceived as the n-word. Had he just said "the black guy", we wouldn't have this conversation now.
 
But arn't you talking about that in only your cultural context? Rather than Romanian or any other nation?
Yes, I am making somewhat of a generalization regarding decorum in professional settings, but there are vastly more multicultural, international professional settings that demand such professionalism than don’t. You get down to specific cultures, that’s not what we are talking about. This is an international, multicultural professional setting, there is protocol for management to adhere to.
 
I never claimed to speak for all black people, never would, and I have no idea why you would think otherwise from what I wrote. It says more about you that you interpreted it that way.

I'm not assuming that any poster who's opinion I read is speaking for some monolith of white thought.
I agree with you. It‘s totally irrelevant whether you feel offended by it or not. So why do you bring it up?
 
"Almost any" football fan, are you kidding me? I myself didn't know Pierre Webo. I guarantee you most wouldn't.

I said any Dutch or German player, aka white. There’s a reason you didn't know about Webo.
 
He has a name! Specifically to help identify him as a person!

What planet are you living on where you think it's okay for officials to ignore that and identify players/officials by their skin colour instead? I mean jesus fecking christ, this isn't difficult stuff.

Edit: Edited for accuracy.
Oh behave man. If you don’t know the player (which tbf in a UCL match is unforgivable) skin colour is a fair adjective if he meant it as a descriptor. Come on ffs there are better hills to die in than this.
 
It seems that you are trying to advocate for something I haven't accused him about. In this thread there isn't a moment I have judged the situation or expected anything.

Apologies, JP. I had the impression that you were indicating there were possible means for the fourth official to know or reference Webo's name.
 
If he has said something that is not considered derogatory in his country and he knows no better, then surely it's about how he is trained to handle situations like this in the wider world? Considering the occupation.
Sure he should be more careful but also please dont use the word "wider world". Its mainly an issue in the anglosphere and some western european countries. So unless the UK can set the standard for what is the standard in the wider world but poland or japan cannot we just cannot agree on how this training should be like and its dangerously close to enforcing one culture or one standard on others.

Are they all naked? Aren‘t there other ways to segregate them?

Use their names, ffs. Use eye contact, point with the hand if you need, too. So, many possibilities:(
I assume you are German. Bein played for Frankfurt right?
I live in germany but I'm of asian origin.
I'll always be referred to as the asian guy if I'm among a bunch of non-east asians its just so easy to understand.
Also I'd find it comically funny if someone tried to point me out as "ehm.. the... guy with the white shirt and the... no,no... not this ones the taller one
 
I would attempt to describe the others first, focusing on descriptors like attire, hair color, positive height (tall, not short). Then gender. Wouldn’t state race unless absolutely necessary, then only to the boss & no one else. Wouldn’t let someone overhear.

But, using attire, hair color, positive height, & gender will allow you to be accurately descriptive of three different people every time. There isn’t a situation where you would have to use a racial descriptor in such a closed environment. It’s simply unprofessional to use one in such a fluid environment like a sporting event where an inappropriate word could be so easily misconstrued.
And if roles are reversed and you are asking a colleague which one is Jamie? They say (entirely sensibly I suggest) that Jamie is the lady or the white guy? You sack them or suspend them for a very long time or do you say thanks and go and speak to Jamie?
 
I agree with you. It‘s totally irrelevant whether you feel offended by it or not. So why do you bring it up?

Ironically the most racist person in this thread.

Everyone else feel free share your opinions and life experiences that brought you to them. Black dude does it and you instantly use a weird Nazi analogy to imply that I somehow claimed to speak for my entire race, while adding that the post is both irrelevant and has nothing to do with the discussion despite being along the lines of every other opinion offered in the thread.
 
"On the right" (or left/in the middle)

He said you were outside the room. How do you know where the people are sitting/standing before you enter?

Not that this scenario happened tonight, but then nobody tonight was called Sam I don't think so in for a penny in for a pound.
 
So is this another term of endearment
 
I lived in Japan for several years and speak the language reasonably well. Surely they called you "gaijin" or "gaikokujin" mate?

I was there with a pretty mixed group of people of my company and we had to work with our japanese colleagues. None of us speaks japanese so everyone spoke english. And I was either called by my name or literally by "big white guy". I'm 1,98m and 110kg, so "big guy" would have easily been enough to identify me, but as i said I didn't take any offense in "big white guy".

Edit: I know the term "gaijin" but thought it is basically meant a little negative, no?
 
Nope, but I dont see how if I was talking about a team I was in control of I couldn't call him by his name. You are still missing the point, you seem to think being called black is an insult, its very odd.
No-one has said its anything to be ashamed of. Being fat isn't something to be ashamed of, but you wouldn't want to be called 'fat' as a primary description. Losing a leg isn't anything to be ashamed of, but being identified as the 'one legged guy' probably wouldn't be nice. Being old isn't something to be ashamed of but it wouldn't be nice to be referred to as 'the old one'. Being short isn't something to be ashamed of, but being referred to as 'the short one' probably wouldn't be ideal. Having a burnt face isn't something to be ashamed of but being referred to as 'the one with the burnt face' would be abhorrent.
 
I was there with a pretty mixed group of people of my company and we had to work with our japanese colleagues. None of us speaks japanese so everyone spoke english. And I was either called by my name or literally by "big white guy". I'm 1,98m and 110kg, so "big guy" would have easily been enough to identify me, but as i said I didn't take any offense in "big white guy".

Take a case, get a pay out, and give me ALL the money.