Was it a smart bomb that hit the Chinese embassy?
Let's not even go there with collateral damage or how smart white phosphorus is
Putin and Russia in Syria
- Thread starter Dans
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Let's not even go there with collateral damage or how smart white phosphorus is
Eh, ohhhhh, hmmmmm... You'll have to wait for the full investigation before jumping to conclusions
Well the Kurds are still Iraqis in terms of citizenship and living within the Iraqi nation state, so they obviously count, and they were spot on about wanting them to stay. Its hardly surprising that the Da'wa party who are generally more Iran centric wanted them out. I know quite a few senior Da'wa party leaders who said as much.
So you're denying the majority of Iraqis wanted the US out?
I'm sure a good number of them did, not because it was the US but because they were war weary. No one likes to be in a war for 8 years, so its obvious they thought the US going home would bring peace. Little did they know it would bring ISIS and Iranians.
There's a possibility. Nations that have fought or supported actions against various radical Middle-East groups draw retaliatory attacks, and the Russians had their share of problems with Chechen extremists when hostilities were high in the late 1990s and early 2000s.
Considering how unpopular any Russian intervention in Syria is at home whereas economy is a bigger issue, he's risking a huge lot on the go. If things turn wrong, it would be another Afghanistan all over again.
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More likely you'd dead.
Defending indiscriminate killings of childrens and civilians.....
You should probably give a read to Palestine thread mate.
Where did you get that from? Stop posting what you don't know.
Smart bomb only means it will have a vastly increased chance of hitting the target it is aimed at. Plug in the wrong coordinates, aim at the wrong bldg, a hardware or software failure takes place, etc etc etc and theywill hit the wrong target with incredible accurracy.
True.. White phosphorus on the other hand is just evil... Should be a war crime as it's essentially a chemical weapon
Or the refugee crisis where he reccomend landmines because they had probably committed the heinous crime of being muslims
I'd say he gets lot of leeway here and he got off lightly with just a tagline, on other forums he'd be banned for things that he regularly posts here.
Rubbish. I never had to defend anything like that anyway. Arabs on the other hand...
I certainly recommend landmines as means to prevent mass marches from surrounding enemy states. That's why we fundamentalists have these:
Assuming Syrian refugees are all GDP-raising teachers and engineers they should be well aware of the existence of landmines and avoid getting blown up.
Israeli Muslims serve in parliament (doing a horrible service to their voters imo), supreme court, IDF and are part of our academia, medical staff in hospitals and research institutions, and play and captain Israeli national sports teams. You can feck off with your preaching.
Nevermind, if you are obsessed with my opinions I suggest that instead of derailing this thread you could dedicate a thread to your obsession, or better discuss relevant posts in existing threads. I promise to take part in discussions as long as they don't deteriorate to racist name-calling and zoological analogies.
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"It's a process....."
Good article on Syrian anxieties over Iranian influence.....
http://www.spiegel.de/international...-1056263.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=
http://www.spiegel.de/international...-1056263.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/...-syria-russia-insurgent-idUKKCN0S31LU20151009
Russia says 300 millitants killed. Not sure how believable this is!
Russia says 300 millitants killed. Not sure how believable this is!
I think that there is a wrong idea where western countries can do whatever they want but not Russia. Assad is not going to lose the war and the revolution has been stolen for ISIS.At this point I would prefer that Assad gets all the country back. Surely USA intentions were good but have been stopped for Assad-Putin alliance and the fail of diplomacy with Turkey during many months. I also don't understand the ambiguity of Saudi Arabia, and how the relations with US can be provoking that the americans take this conflict so softly.What happened with that big Irak-Iran army that took Tikrit months ago?.I still remember that the coalition didn't participate in the attack to not be mixed with Iran regime.and the siege of Mosul that was going to begin "in a month"?.Too much diplomacy and interests.I feel that Russia won't be so worried about that
Not if they start having casualties and, worse, have terrorist actions perpetrated on Russian soil. Past history with Chechen terrorist groups suggest that the FSB is not as effective as a number of other agencies are in thwarting terrorist plots. Putin is walking on a thin thread with that military intervention that lacks support at home while the economy and standards of life are going to shit.
Anyway, I spit on any form of dictatorship there is. Whether it is supported by the US or by Russia, the message remains the same: feck the dictatorship and start evolving into the 21st Century, people.
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*edit:I misread your post,about casualties.I thought that you mean civil casualties,as what happened with the hospital.We will see,they already had terrorist attcks in Volvograd and is a risk that every country involved will have to face.*But this is a war,they can't beapologizing for every casualty while they continue beheading people.I think that IS is not going to be beaten with selected airstrikes and without infantry.I read an interview to one of the kidnapped periodists that was in James Foley group and he said that they are kept in army camps to avoid the airstrikes. Putin has won a lot of square kilometres for Russia in the last 2 years and a lot of international presence.If I were a russian patriot I would be quite satisfied
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Without diverting into the topic that should be discussed into the other thread, I think the problem the Russians will have plenty of problems with potential casualties and possible retaliatory attacks from radical groups and lone wolfs. Furthermore, the fact that they are nowhere near able to break down Ukraine shows that the Russian Army will not be able to avoid getting stretched if the conflict goes on. It's only early days with the Russian intervention, but I believe the backlash will come.
I might have written this either here or in the other thread, but using the excuse that the naval base is in danger was a poor one. I'm sure that Russian naval base is "threatened" as much as Guantanamo Bay was when Castro arrived in 1959, then the Bay of Pigs in 1961, and the Missile Crisis in 1962, but people also know how things went with Gitmo since.
Do you think that they can´t break down Ukraine? I think that once they started using heavy artillery they were crashing Ukraine army, that already had called to one million reservists. I wonder how long they could have endured without Merkel-Holland-Putin pact in Minsk.
Of course all are excuses but the only thing that we can do is economical sanctions. Nobody is going to raise the voice too much, if not they can finish like Nemtsov
Seems fair:
Who Is a Better Strategist: Obama or Putin?
Pitting a former KGB agent against a former community organizer and seeing what happens in Syria.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/09/who-is-a-better-strategist-obama-or-putin/
Who Is a Better Strategist: Obama or Putin?
Pitting a former KGB agent against a former community organizer and seeing what happens in Syria.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/09/who-is-a-better-strategist-obama-or-putin/
Not particularly encouraging - this is a one man mistake of turning into something much bigger.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/raf-given-green-light-shoot-down-hostile-russian-jets-syria-1523488
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/raf-given-green-light-shoot-down-hostile-russian-jets-syria-1523488
Bluster. Nothing more.
Not read anything about this and don't understand the news over here.
Is it Russia secretly taking oil instead of the usual America?
Is it Russia secretly taking oil instead of the usual America?
Not yet. It is one of the big guns bombing nations not their own, depending on their ever-changing foreign policies which decides who is a friend and who is the enemy in the current situation.
Probably hiding in a crowd of a few thousand civilians. They are easy to spot in the crowd. They are the angrier looking ones.
Back in London after a few days away, so that explains the delayed response.
Again - it's a really odd point you're making/trying to insinuate.
Nobody forced them to work for the regime, but if they dared to speak out and about what would have happened? Or if they decided that Assad was inhumane and barbaric how would that have ended up? You mention that they'd either be killed imprisoned or exiled, and I agree that's exactly what would have happened...but for some reason you think that's something to hold against them? It's a strange point to make. Like I mentioned before, Daraa was a spark. There was a real, valid opportunity for these guys to make a difference and change the regime, and again, I don't see why you would think that is a bad thing. You used the words 'modern secular loving hippies' or something earlier - I don't get where that type of idea came from (unless you feel I dressed them up that way? Which I haven't), but anyway, they are a better alternative to the current regime. That is undeniable. Going back to pre-2011, the UK has a lot of Syrian expats who fled for that very reason. The Imam in West London who was murdered earlier this year had to flee for that reason. My Arabic teacher's family is the same. There's many pre-2011 Syrians living here who found themselves in a dire situation due to the regime.
I've no problem with you wanting Assad gone btw, if you believe he is the worst of the worst in Syria. I'm just very skeptical of the wishful thinking you seem to have with regard to the nature and influence of the FSA, and your downplaying of the nature of Nusra.[/QUOTE]
There is no evidence that Saudi Arabia sponsor these guys. In fact, I'm surprised someone as knowledgeable as yourself would come out with such a comment. Do you really think a government in bed with the US etc would sponsor these guys? They are sponsored by a few select wealthy individuals but to say so boldly that it's Saudi Arabia (and I'm assuming you mean the gov't because it's implicit in your post) is a bit silly. AQ has been setting off bombs in residential compounds and gov't offices since 2003 in SA, they managed to drive the majority of them out in 2007 and now they're friction is confined to the border with Yemen. I really doubt they'd be so overt in sponsoring their terrorist activities and then fighting them elsewhere.
And the beheading thing - yes it's archaic, but it is no better or worse than the crimes the regime has been committing, many of which you've been quite silent on. Do you think a beheading is a worse way to die than napalm? Or chemical gas? It's easy to paint these groups as inhumane and barbaric, but it's telling that you'd look the other way when it concerns a secular regime. Furthermore, Julani is trying to distance himself and the group from that type of behaviour anyway.
And I'll get back to you on those other groups, but from my own reading, I've seen that Nusra and their associated groups are sympathetic to the FSA and vice versa. Maybe after the regime is overthrown they'll start on the 'chopping board', but I don't really see that occurring.
Again - it's a really odd point you're making/trying to insinuate.
Nobody forced them to work for the regime, but if they dared to speak out and about what would have happened? Or if they decided that Assad was inhumane and barbaric how would that have ended up? You mention that they'd either be killed imprisoned or exiled, and I agree that's exactly what would have happened...but for some reason you think that's something to hold against them? It's a strange point to make. Like I mentioned before, Daraa was a spark. There was a real, valid opportunity for these guys to make a difference and change the regime, and again, I don't see why you would think that is a bad thing. You used the words 'modern secular loving hippies' or something earlier - I don't get where that type of idea came from (unless you feel I dressed them up that way? Which I haven't), but anyway, they are a better alternative to the current regime. That is undeniable. Going back to pre-2011, the UK has a lot of Syrian expats who fled for that very reason. The Imam in West London who was murdered earlier this year had to flee for that reason. My Arabic teacher's family is the same. There's many pre-2011 Syrians living here who found themselves in a dire situation due to the regime.
Yes - at the start of Nusra's entrance to the conflict, when there was a grey area on where they would align themselves, naturally, there were incidents between the rebels and them. Since then, and here's the benefit of retrospect, they are firmly against IS, and firmly with the FSA (with the ultimate aim of overthrowing Assad). So, you can understand why Mr. Maarouf, is now residing in Turkey. Like I said before (in the other thread), the FSA had no way near the amount of funds or weaponry that the regime or the likes of Nusra or IS received. I fully recognise that in the conflict their legitimacy was lessening as they were running out of tools, and money. When the regime is being propped up by Iran and Russia, and IS by rich Gulf individuals, and FSA by..well, initially by the Syrian people, who were in the eye of the storm, I'd imagine it's a difficult situation to manage. So, it was inevitable they'd have to 'let' the Jihadists lead the fight. But it almost sounds like you're blaming them for not having any outside support, which is silly.
Do you really think SA sponsor Jihadist groups?
I've no problem with you wanting Assad gone btw, if you believe he is the worst of the worst in Syria. I'm just very skeptical of the wishful thinking you seem to have with regard to the nature and influence of the FSA, and your downplaying of the nature of Nusra.[/QUOTE]
There is no evidence that Saudi Arabia sponsor these guys. In fact, I'm surprised someone as knowledgeable as yourself would come out with such a comment. Do you really think a government in bed with the US etc would sponsor these guys? They are sponsored by a few select wealthy individuals but to say so boldly that it's Saudi Arabia (and I'm assuming you mean the gov't because it's implicit in your post) is a bit silly. AQ has been setting off bombs in residential compounds and gov't offices since 2003 in SA, they managed to drive the majority of them out in 2007 and now they're friction is confined to the border with Yemen. I really doubt they'd be so overt in sponsoring their terrorist activities and then fighting them elsewhere.
And the beheading thing - yes it's archaic, but it is no better or worse than the crimes the regime has been committing, many of which you've been quite silent on. Do you think a beheading is a worse way to die than napalm? Or chemical gas? It's easy to paint these groups as inhumane and barbaric, but it's telling that you'd look the other way when it concerns a secular regime. Furthermore, Julani is trying to distance himself and the group from that type of behaviour anyway.
And I'll get back to you on those other groups, but from my own reading, I've seen that Nusra and their associated groups are sympathetic to the FSA and vice versa. Maybe after the regime is overthrown they'll start on the 'chopping board', but I don't really see that occurring.
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Your original point was that because these guys have worked for the regime for years, they are particularly suitable to lead Syria in the future. Given your justifiable criticisms of the regime under which they happily served, that makes no sense. If they were truly principled actors who cared about the future of Syria, they never would have worked for the regime in the first place, and some of them might have joined the real opposition in exile. The nature of the regime was well known prior to 2011, and we can assume even more so by those working within it. But just because these guys jumped ship in 2011, we should suddenly believe that they are the key to Syria's future? I think you'll find yourself extremely disappointed if any of them get their hands on power in Syria, not that it's likely to happen.
Uzz said:
There was no grey area when they entered the Syrian conflict - they were sent by al-Baghdadi. That they are now firmly against the IS is because of a dispute over to whom exactly they owe their pledge of allegiance, al-Zawahiri or al-Baghdadi. A massive chunk of Jabhat al-Nusra decided to stick with al-Baghdadi and so they joined ISIS. Their brand of Salafi-Jihadism is almost identical, the only significant difference being that al-Nusra do not believe in Takfir-ing, for the time being, the other rebel groups fighting Assad. The idea that once Assad is gone these al-Qaeda groups are going to step aside and allow the FSA or whoever to chart a pluralistic path in Syria is absolutely ridiculous.
Uzz said:
This from just four days ago - Gulf Arabs 'stepping up' arms supplies to Syrian rebels http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34479929
The pertinent bit: "The well-placed official...said those groups being supplied did not include either Islamic State (IS) or al-Nusra Front, both of which are proscribed terrorist organisations. Instead, he said the weapons would go to three rebel alliances - Jaish al-Fatah (Army of Conquest), the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and the Southern Front."
And this is exactly how they are hood-winking the world. They claim they are not supporting Jabhat al-Nusra, however they are supporting Jaysh al-Fatah - which is a jihadist coalition that happens to be led by Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham!
There's a ton of other evidence the Saudis have/are supporting jihadis, e.g. Jaysh al-Islam's Zahran Alloush is the son of a prominent Saudi-based 'alim, you really think those guys aren't receiving Saudi support?
Uzz said:
Actually I've been one of the few critics of the opposition in this thread to acknowledge the role played by Assad in all this and the crimes committed by his regime. For some reason you're misconstruing my criticism of what the opposition movement has become with turning a blind eye to the nature of the regime, when I've stated more than once that the regime is ultimately responsible for producing these groups - through 45+ years of brutalization of Syrian society, through support for the jihadists laying waste to Iraq a decade ago, through deliberately targeting any and all liberal and moderate voices which might come to represent a legitimate challenge to it, through releasing hundreds/thousands of jihadis from its prisons in 2011 with the obvious aim of discrediting the opposition, through its refusal to seriously engage and take on the Islamic State for the same reason, and of course through the numerous atrocities committed in Syria during the war.
None of this, however, means we should give the benefit of the doubt to al-Qaeda, which, I'm afraid, is exactly what you've done in your last sentence there. Some of us remember exactly what the core Jabhat al-Nusra leadership has been up to in Iraq for the past 12 years.
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For me it is completely different. You are comparing a civil war with two sides , which is debatable who are good with a regime that treats Christians as trash.
@syrian_scholes do you think that SA (not necessarily the government) is somehow collaborating with ISIS or arming the no moderated rebels?
I'm not following you on this. What do you mean? Who treats Christians as trash?
Saudi Arabia
So what does that have to do with the bit you quoted above? The beheading was in reference to 2cents mentioning JAN in Syria.
Forget it, I should not have gotten into the discussion, simply a lot of your posts seem ambiguous to me, but probably I am biased for being practising catholic. Not a big fan of Saudi Arabia