Do you mean that managers shouldn't be racists or that you want to talk about football without societial issues getting into the conversation?
PSG manager Christophe Galtier under grave accusations of racism and islamophobia
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It isn't important in the slightest. Why would it be? This is a weird and to be honest worrying post.
I don't think there are many Muslim men in the England team either. I was talking about the lack of black or any non-white players.
I don't think it's that similar tbh. I know so many people who identify as Christian but Sunday is just another day to them. Even the ones that go to church sometimes skip it if they have other plans.
I would imagine Muslim footballers are quite aware that fasting may have an impact on performance, it's not going to be news to them, so the fact that they fast regardless shows that they have made their decision on the matter (the decision being that observing their faith is worth the impact on football performance, which is absolutely their right to do so). It is - at the least - very tone-deaf of a non-Muslim to ask if they would stop fasting in order to perform better on the football pitch.
Yeah, i just kind of wanted to add to what you said, didn't mean to argue with it
(unless i quoted the wrong post)
I stand corrected then.
So how did he know if someone overly religious without asking?? I don't know how he posed the question or request though.
It seems like he asked then rejected. Then that's it, as he continued to play those players in games.
My point is it's not necessary or appropriate to even ask the question. Either the answer is yes, I practice, and therefore I will be fasting, or the answer is no, I don't practice. Either way, the player himself has made their decision and doesn't need to be asked about it.
I managed an ESL school for many years, plenty of students would observe Ramadan and come to class tired as a result. It would never occur to me to ask if they could stop fasting so that they might be more engaged in class, because it's not my place and the students themselves are clearly already aware that their energy levels are different when they are fasting, so it would be completely tone-deaf to bring it up.
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Technically you can't skip just to play a game, but there is several allowances for certain circumstances, for example travel is one of them, today Kante and Fofana can skip fasting since they are traveling to Spain to play against Madrid, but for example Benzema shouldn't skip since he is not traveling, and if you are sick you can skip and of course for women there are further allowances for them to skip fasting like during their menustration period or pregnancy/breast-feeding
It was an ignorant and borderline bigoted thing to say by that poster.
Most Muslims in the UK are from the sub continent where most play cricket and unlike football plenty have made it to play for the England cricket team.
Whilst in France the majority come from north africa who have strong footballing cultures which filters through to their national team.
Honest question, is there any evidence beyond hearsay that Galtier actually said these things?
I don't know. This is paid work related and in competition that massively rely on physical condition. Unless there's a threat behind it or it is in their contract, I think it's a fair question to ask, whether they'll refuse or not is not the issue.
As others pointed out playing a football match isn't a valid exemption to allow for a fidya payment to make it up.
Majority of Muslims take Ramadan seriously and that should be respected. At the top level I haven't seen many players lose significant form over Ramadan, in most cases the players carry on like normal or sometimes perform better (e.g Benzema, Salah).
But it's a personal choice imo, it's not something that should be imposed, so if a player doesn't want to fast that's OK too.
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Exactly. The coach made a reasonable request, and it was rejected. And it seems like there's no repercussion by refusing.
I don't know what's in their contract or PSG policy, though.
Please go back to your BNP meeting, thanks
But I don't think that's what has happened here, the quote says the following:
“The weeks leading up to Ramadan were a time for CG to continually complain that we had 'too many Muslim players' in the squad. »
That's the bigoted part of it.
In fairness not many people in the west are religious though. Even the caf has a "relgion, whats the point thread" and this place tries super hard to be inclusive. When a lot of people in the west don't respect their own families religions etc.. its hard to expect them to respect others.
Playing professional sports during Ramadan has been done for ages. NBA players do it (a sport that I'd wager is as taxing or perhaps more taxing than football) and Kyrie Irving was playing so well while fasting last year (I think it was last year) that memes were being made about the legend of "Ramadan Kyrie". Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Hakeem Olajuwon are two other names that come to mind. There are a couple quotes in this article that talk about the adaptation process that takes place when someone consistently fasts for Ramadan that accord with my own experiences (in short, the first week is tough and then it gets much easier)
With comments like that has he thought to join the Conservative Party?
Who knows if any of the players are even fasting? Many footballers seems to be religious when they enter the pitch or post something on instagram. Next week they drunk drive or they have cheated on their taxes/wives. Or worse.
I don't believe for a minute that so many top pros are religious. At all
I don't believe for a minute that so many top pros are religious. At all
French football is never boring, drama after drama after drama
That's where you're wrong, if you don't fast when you can, then you're defo 10000% not a Muslim. It's one of the pillars of the religion.
No matter what one's name sounds like, his upbringing, if one doesn't fast when nothing prevents it, then he's or she's not a Muslim.
So all Muslims fast in essence
There’s been load of England players who could have played for other countries due to being born there or having grandparents/parents from other countries. If you’re counting Ireland, I’m sure the list gets even longer.
You don’t get much more conservative than following Islam.
Islam phobia, clearly may not know who his current employers are ?
Yeo he’s gone from July 1st or before
True. I'd assume he complained not because the players are having Muslim as religion, but most likely because of those fasting period that he has problem with.
But then, I could be wrong. The sentence does sound bigotry.
Pretty sure most French people weren't bothered after winning 2 world cups with teams full of black and Arab players. Don't buy into the idea that football fans really care about representation as long as their team is successful. But I do believe that some managers might have a preference.
I think the point they are making is that apparently it is problematic socially when teams from a predominantly white European country don’t have much representation of other races in said team - but that when a team from a predominantly white European country has majority other race and not white then it’s not considered a problem.
So whilst you say it isn’t important, it does matter to some obviously if you read social media and mainstream news.
But anyway if the Galtier stuff is true then he is quite the racist and should obviously be fired and should find it difficult to get a job as a manager somewhere else, I’m surprised this hasn’t all surfaced long before now.. don’t think the players will mind if he goes though
If the leaked email is to be believed, it's more than just about fasting, it's straight up racism and islamophobia.
I am a Muslim and I have the same 'opinion' as you or your Muslim friend.
I'd say both are correct, just the other one is stricter.
People (including managers) shouldn't be racist, and that would help us to talk about football without racism issues getting into the conversation.
But yeah, while we are at it, keeping other social issues out of football talks would be good too. Football is a fine topic for discussion just the way it is.
Are you sure about that? 5 minutes on google and I‘ve found this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidyah_and_kaffara
And this
https://islamic-relief.org/kaffarah/
Now that's a whole different twist I didn't know off.
We are talking about different things. What you posted doesn't fall under the category of what I said about people not fasting when they can.
I meant that if someone purposely doesn't fast, when all the conditions are perfect for him to do so then that person isn't a Muslim.
Astonishing take
This is a much more intelligent post than the one that was being replied to.
And for those who may not be aware, France is still meddling to an outrageous degree in its 'former' colonies in Africa.
This is if you're unable to fast for a specific reason (if you're ill or something).
@kouroux is talking about individuals who are able to fast but willingly choose not to.
I know this point is deviating from the thread a bit but is this actually true though? There are many Muslims who don’t take fasting in Ramadan seriously at one point in their lives and then fix up and start fasting years later. Same with prayers, which is also one of the 5 pillars. People sometimes go years without praying for no reason until they suddenly begin to take religion seriously. Is it really right to say all those people aren’t Muslims?
Ding ding. There’s a reason why it’s potentially more worrying when there’s lack of minorities particupating.
I literally know a guy who describes and considers himself a Muslim (his parents' faith) but since he lived in Western Europe all his life he's really not the strictest when it comes to pillars, yet again it doesn't mean he ignores them all and the religion still plays a big role in his life. Not to mention scores of other Muslim lads I'd have met who'd enjoy an occasional drink or other stuff not necessarily allowed by the religion. This approach "you're either a fully devoted worshipper or you're not one of us" strikes me a bit as gatekeeping. In all honesty, I'm sure that in my home country there are quite a few of hardlines that'd also go "oh if you don't go to church every Sunday, don't respect lent, don't do the X, Y, Z, you're not a real Catholic". I'm not buying it - I'm not religious at all, but vast majority of the religious people I know (and from different religions too) are relatively big hypocrites
