Protest planned before Norwich game

[moses]

So you're saying that unless a protest effects immediate change, it's pointless? Thank goodness the African American community didn't think that during the civil rights struggles. 'Mr King, we've chained ourselves to railings once but bathrooms remain segregated. What's the point? At this point all we're doing is fueling our own ego, our own self worth, nothing more.'

Not even remotely comparable. And quite insulting to be honest.

 

[Jeppers7]

It was 2010. At the time there was a huge debt mongering by MUST/Andy Green et al and we just lost both the league and CL after a very lacklustre 2009-2010 summer window. It was pretty much quiet the next few years until Fergie’s retirement because we either won the league or lost it on GD, despite the spending still being relatively anemic.

The poster you replied to had the right of it. When we were winning, there wasn’t much of a drive to protest, only when the perception in the fan base is that things are really going South do people turn out.

Sorry did Blackpool protest their owners when they hit the Prem ? So you think our fans are only protesting because we haven’t won a trophy? You honestly think that? You think United fans are simply glory hunters and have no moral grounds to protest their owners? We’re Blackpool morally protesting their owner being a convicted rapist on moral grounds or because they felt he was taking money out of the club akin to the Glazers.

 

[Jeppers7]

Not even remotely comparable. And quite insulting to be honest.

I think the point being made was that things don’t happen overnight. Causes grow over time and support comes and goes. Sometimes nothing changes. Typically it takes a major event to force change in anything and focus attention but the groundwork is laid over years. In relation to the post it made sense to me.

I don’t think anyone is remotely suggesting the two are comparable. Nobody said that.

 

[moses]

I think the point being made was that things don’t happen overnight. Causes grow over time and support comes and goes. Sometimes nothing changes. Typically it takes a major event to force change in anything and focus attention but the groundwork is laid over years. In relation to the post it made sense to me.

I don’t think anyone is remotely suggesting the two are comparable. Nobody said that.

He did compare the protests and its not comparable. In any way.

It does, back up the other post about ego though.

 

[Terrific Tangerine]

Sorry did Blackpool protest their owners when they hit the Prem ? So you think our fans are only protesting because we haven’t won a trophy? You honestly think that? You think United fans are simply glory hunters and have no moral grounds to protest their owners? We’re Blackpool morally protesting their owner being a convicted rapist on moral grounds or because they felt he was taking money out of the club akin to the Glazers.

I've laid out my answers to your points replying to someone else who asked very similarly.

Every fan would have his own reasons, and for many.it was definitely about the money. For far too few it was the rape conviction. But for most it was when the owners went after fans and sued them for tens of thousands of pounds for criticising online the way the club was run.

 

[stw2022]

The bedsheet banners brigade only come out when we aren’t performing well.

Sack Fergie, Sell Giggs, etc.

And that’s fine, fans have a right to do that but you can’t deny that the laundry is safe when we’re winning and the takeover is irrelevant to that

 

[Jeppers7]

He did compare the protests and its not comparable. In any way.

It does, back up the other post about ego though.

The point was that change takes time. It doesn’t happen overnight…..even something so profound as racial discrimination. Never mind something trivial like football ownership.

The other poster was asking what’s being done today, tomorrow etc. As if the fact that nothing major will happen as a result means that the protest was purely a vanity project.

Nobody said anything about the causes being comparable.

There’s a lot of ego’s on here that’s for sure. I wasn’t part of the protest yesterday but I wouldn’t knock those trying. Somebody doing something, a cause and a purpose. Good on them.

 

[stw2022]

Protest at fact we’re run chaotically is fine. Make it that. It’s true. We are and the owners would deserve that criticism.

“We decided a random mid April match against Norwich was a great opportunity for a timely protest against the takeover of 2005” is complete bollocks

Not every legitimate contemporary gripe about how the club is run means we have to pretend there arguments of 17 years ago haven’t been aired enough. There needs to be space to criticise the running of the club without it constantly being hijacked by those still not over the buyout

 

[moses]

Sorry did Blackpool protest their owners when they hit the Prem ? So you think our fans are only protesting because we haven’t won a trophy? You honestly think that? You think United fans are simply glory hunters and have no moral grounds to protest their owners? We’re Blackpool morally protesting their owner being a convicted rapist on moral grounds or because they felt he was taking money out of the club akin to the Glazers.

I agree that morality comes into it, but when you do see it as an issue of morality, then it suddenly becomes an almost trivial detail in the grand scheme of things.

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be more protests, and I drifted from the club long before the Glazers, because we were whoring ourselves for profit and the ownership quagmire we are in now was always a risk with the ethos that was developing.

It's about money, they don't care as long as the money cones in. Boycott will have an effect and the matchday fans staying outside the ground instead of going in for a few weeks would be a massive story. One event every few years is easily diluted.

 

[moses]

The point was that change takes time. It doesn’t happen overnight…..even something so profound as racial discrimination. Never mind something trivial like football ownership.

The other poster was asking what’s being done today, tomorrow etc. As if the fact that nothing major will happen as a result means that the protest was purely a vanity project.

Nobody said anything about the causes being comparable.

There’s a lot of ego’s on here that’s for sure. I wasn’t part of the protest yesterday but I wouldn’t knock those trying. Somebody doing something, a cause and a purpose. Good on them.

Yeah, I still think the comparison as you explain what he meant, is in poor taste.

We can literally just not support the club. And take up stamp collecting. In the context he mentioned, it's a total irrelevance.

 

[TwoSheds]

Yeah, I still think the comparison as you explain what he meant, is in poor taste.

We can literally just not support the club. And take up stamp collecting. In the context he mentioned, it's a total irrelevance.

He's just drawing a parallel to try to explain why he (rightly) thinks protesting is important. It doesn't have to be exactly the same sort of situation to help the depressed fatalist know-it-alls in this thread understand why protesting matters, regardless of whether its successful or not. The right to protest, and the energy to get out and do it about any topic that is important to you, is fundamental to a healthy society.

 

[Pickle85]

Not even remotely comparable. And quite insulting to be honest.

In what way is it insulting? Hyperbolic, I agree, but I'm certainly not equating the two in terms of their respective importance. I was just saying that to expect overnight change is facile and futile. Feel free to hop on the knee jerk moral outrage wagon though.

 

[Jeppers7]

Yeah, I still think the comparison as you explain what he meant, is in poor taste.

We can literally just not support the club. And take up stamp collecting. In the context he mentioned, it's a total irrelevance.

I agree with you there. I wouldn’t have chosen that example but I honestly think the point was being made that these things take time to change, if indeed they ever change.

 

[Pickle85]

He's just drawing a parallel to try to explain why he (rightly) thinks protesting is important. It doesn't have to be exactly the same sort of situation to help the depressed fatalist know-it-alls in this thread understand why protesting matters, regardless of whether its successful or not. The right to protest, and the energy to get out and do it about any topic that is important to you, is fundamental to a healthy society.

Exactly. My point was that if we all thought that protest led to overnight change and if it doesn't we should call it a day, most, if not all, of the most important social, political etc changes would never have happened.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Sorry did Blackpool protest their owners when they hit the Prem ? So you think our fans are only protesting because we haven’t won a trophy? You honestly think that? You think United fans are simply glory hunters and have no moral grounds to protest their owners? We’re Blackpool morally protesting their owner being a convicted rapist on moral grounds or because they felt he was taking money out of the club akin to the Glazers.

I can’t speak to other fans, each have his/her own reasons whether to protest or not. I’m merely pointing out that after the initial furore of the takeover, when people split off to form FC United and all that, we did not have a major protest until 2010 when the debt hit 700m and MUST was driving a very aggressive campaign on ownership change based on that, it was also ‘coincidentally’ the year we lost the league to Chelsea by a point and went out of the CL in the quarter, after a disastrous summer of losing both Ronaldo/Tevez and bringing in Valencia/Obertan/Owen. These protests were not sustained and disappeared largely when the doom mongering about the club’s imminent financial collapse didn’t manifest and we kept winning leagues until Fergie’s retirement, and much of the ire of the fan base was reserved for managers later on when investment in the playing squad were made in the following years.

Not until the Super League attempt of last year did the protests ever reached the scale of the 05/10, so while I don’t believe Utd fans are ‘glory hunters’, I do believe the kind of sustained effort you talk about isn’t feasible anytime soon if we get our act together on the pitch. As unsavoury as our owners are, most people would not get off their arse if they don’t think the future sporting/financial prospects of the club is in jeopardy.

 

[moses]

In what way is it insulting? Hyperbolic, I agree, but I'm certainly not equating the two in terms of their respective importance. I was just saying that to expect overnight change is facile and futile. Feel free to hop on the knee jersey moral outrage wagon though.

I'm not outraged, just pointing out it was crass. If you don't see the insult then that's fine, I've no desire to explain it. And any comparison only serves to highlight the overall insignificance of who owns your hobby. You managed to take something culturally important and dwarf it beside one of humanities biggest crimes. Well done.

 

[Pickle85]

I'm not outraged, just pointing out it was crass. And only serves to highlight the overall insignificance of who owns your hobby. You managed to take something culturally important and dwarf it beside one of humanities biggest crimes. Well done.

What are you talking about? I didn't compare the two in terms of importance because it's clear that there's no comparison. What I was doing was taking the 'if we can't change something immediately it's not worth persevering' logic to its conclusion. To show the stupidity of this logic I used what you rightly describe as one of humanity's biggest crimes, emphasizing how potentially dangerous and nonsensical it is. Please do tell me how this is crass. Just because a comment deals with sensitive issues doesn't automatically make it crass. Try reading more carefully.

 

[moses]

What are you talking about? I didn't compare the two in terms of importance because it's clear that there's no comparison. What I was doing was taking the 'if we can't change something immediately it's not worth persevering' logic to its conclusion. To show the stupidity of this logic I used what you rightly describe as one of humanity's biggest crimes, emphasizing how potentially dangerous and nonsensical it is. Please do tell me how this is crass. Just because a comment deals with sensitive issues doesn't automatically make it crass. Try reading more carefully.

To in any way compare your pasttime, and I mean in any way, to the US civil rights movement, which you did, is crass and stinking of a total lack of perspective.

Edit - I've been on literally hundreds of protests in my life, and for arguably bigger things than owning a football club, and I've been detained by the cops and nobody has ever evoked Martin Luther King, because it's just fecking stupid.

 

[Pickle85]

To in any way compare your pasttime, and I mean in any way, to the US civil rights movement, which you did, is crass and stinking of a total lack of perspective.

I feel like we're not getting anywhere here and it's derailing the thread. I've already explained why thats not the case and my suspicion is you read 'civil rights movement' in my original post and jumped on that without trying to understand the point. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

 

[moses]

I feel like we're not getting anywhere here and it's derailing the thread. I've already explained why thats not the case and my suspicion is you read 'civil rights movement' in my original post and jumped on that without trying to understand the point. Let's agree to disagree and move on.

Grand, but the thread needed derailing to clear up that ham-fisted comparison. Some things are bigger than others.

 

[VivaObertan]

We are holding them accountable by continuing to pay for the seats to watch games??
The Glazers have their cash, why should a few flares, and a bit of short term chanting mean anything to them??

What is the plan tomorrow?? Anything??

How about at Anfield?? Or Wednesday?? Or Thursday?? Or Friday?? Nothing planned??

Thought as much, today was meaningless, simple really.

It was just a small group of people overestimating their importance hugely.

Sums it up if people were chanting about Ed.

Just a drunken mob, with nothing better to do.
An embarrassing mess around really.

Today shouldn't have happened.

The seats were paid for last summer, not much you can do about that.

Weird, weird post

 

[Jeppers7]

I can’t speak to other fans, each have his/her own reasons whether to protest or not. I’m merely pointing out that after the initial furore of the takeover, when people split off to form FC United and all that, we did not have a major protest until 2010 when the debt hit 700m and MUST was driving a very aggressive campaign on ownership change based on that, it was also ‘coincidentally’ the year we lost the league to Chelsea by a point and went out of the CL in the quarter, after a disastrous summer of losing both Ronaldo/Tevez and bringing in Valencia/Obertan/Owen. These protests were not sustained and disappeared largely when the doom mongering about the club’s imminent financial collapse didn’t manifest and we kept winning leagues until Fergie’s retirement, and much of the ire of the fan base was reserved for managers later on when investment in the playing squad were made in the following years.

Not until the Super League attempt of last year did the protests ever reached the scale of the 05/10, so while I don’t believe Utd fans are ‘glory hunters’, I do believe the kind of sustained effort you talk about isn’t feasible anytime soon if we get our act together on the pitch. As unsavoury as our owners are, most people would not get off their arse if they don’t think the future sporting/financial prospects of the club is in jeopardy.

But the poster I replied to said that nobody has any support for Uniteds protests, but would for plenty of other clubs, because our fans are all glory hunters. My point was that Blackpool didn’t protest against a convicted rapist whilst in the premier league, until he started taking money out of the club years later.

So I’m confused really as to why you said he was right? Why Blackpool fans were morally in the right with their protests and why United fans are not morally deserving of owner protest or less deserving than fans who support a convicted rapist until he starts taking money out of the club.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

But the poster I replied to said that nobody has any support for Uniteds protests, but would for plenty of other clubs, because our fans are all glory hunters. My point was that Blackpool didn’t protest against a convicted rapist whilst in the premier league, until he started taking money out of the club years later.

So I’m confused really as to why you said he was right? Why Blackpool fans were morally in the right with their protests and why United fans are not morally deserving of owner protest or less deserving than fans who support a convicted rapist until he starts taking money out of the club.

He did not said that, what he said was that the current protest has less to do with the 05 takeover method (leveraged buyout) but rather our dire state on/off the pitch.

You are the one who are confusing posters by merging two separate convos. Just reread the last page.

 

[Jeppers7]

He did not said that, what he said was that the current protest has less to do with the 05 takeover method (leveraged buyout) but rather our dire state on/off the pitch.

You are the one who are confusing posters by merging two separate convos. Just reread the last page.

As a Blackpool fan I am incredibly happy whenever shitty owners are removed from a club and replaced by better owners. All the better if it happens as a result of grass roots movement in the local community.

United however will never get popular support throughout the football community amongst other fans, journalists and celebrities. Simply because there is no moral element to the campaign. To anyone outside Uniteds fanbase the protesters are just glory hunters whinging because they don't win anymore.

It’s exactly what he said. Almost word for word.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

It’s exactly what he said. Almost word for word.

This is the post you replied to that I afterwards replied to.

We won the Champions League in 2008. There was no protest that year or the next. In fact from 2007-2010 trophies rolled in and things were pretty quiet.

It’s not a criticism but an observation that memory of opposition to the takeover always seems to be jolted even we stop winning things.

A random protest in April at the not-even-seventeenth anniversary of the buyout had more to do with the defeat at Everton and the general consensus (at least at the time) that CL qualification was beyond our reach.

To that end it had nothing to do with opposing the takeover. Nobody earmarked a nothing mid-April match against Norwich over the Easter weekend as a perfect opportunity to make a point about how much they are aggrieved at the takeover

People have a right to protest but this was just fans using recent bad form for an opportunistic whip-up for the cause planned because the loss to Everton and prospect of no CL football next season would made others more likely to join in

As I said, you held two separate convos and mistook posters for each other, these things happen.

 

[Sky1981]

The fact that OT is still majority filled meant that the majority of the matchgoing arent in support of the protest.

Sure blame it on daytrippers and overseas fans. But do you really believe 60k fans still in the stadium are all overseas and foreign fans?

Besides. What's your demand

Glazer out? Gripe about the take over? It's done and dusted. The debt are fine. The spending is as big as ever. Our wage spent is number 1. They did their part on finance, cant honestly blaming then for taking 20m divident. Our players got paid more than that posting on instagram.

If you protest and wanted football people assigned as dof. I support that.

If you voice your discontent and decided you want poch, that's fair play.

Asking them to leave and sell just because we do badly the past 8 years? And that is part done by ole Gunnar the ex player we all adore and support all these last 2 years? The moyes that was appointed directly by our living legend alex Ferguson? And somehoe the board actually listen to football god (SAF) but when shit hits the fans we didnt put a finger on saf but point it on bad management?

Sure the result arent there but i dont blame the effort. They spent like mad even when we're on top 4, if they didnt care they wont let ole spend 400m, we did hit top 3.

Not looking for glory? Our scout department is so bloated the last time i played fm i spent 2 hours sacking every single one of them. If FM is to be believed we have like 20 plus scouts.

OT needs refurbished? Working on that.

And i felt they read the fans. Each year they give us what we want in this forum. Mourinho, ole, rangnick, and now ETH. The board actually listened and trying to get what the fans want. Cross your heart and be honest, everytime they appoint a manager we all think that wasnt so bad. Only when things go south we blame woody.

 

[Jeppers7]

This is the post you replied to that I afterwards replied to.



As I said, you held two separate convos and mistook posters for each other, these things happen.

Ah sorry !

 

[Withnail]

The fact that OT is still majority filled meant that the majority of the matchgoing arent in support of the protest.

Sure blame it on daytrippers and overseas fans. But do you really believe 60k fans still in the stadium are all overseas and foreign fans?

Besides. What's your demand

Glazer out? Gripe about the take over? It's done and dusted. The debt are fine. The spending is as big as ever. Our wage spent is number 1. They did their part on finance, cant honestly blaming then for taking 20m divident. Our players got paid more than that posting on instagram.

If you protest and wanted football people assigned as dof. I support that.

If you voice your discontent and decided you want poch, that's fair play.

Asking them to leave and sell just because we do badly the past 8 years? And that is part done by ole Gunnar the ex player we all adore and support all these last 2 years? The moyes that was appointed directly by our living legend alex Ferguson? And somehoe the board actually listen to football god (SAF) but when shit hits the fans we didnt put a finger on saf but point it on bad management?

Sure the result arent there but i dont blame the effort. They spent like mad even when we're on top 4, if they didnt care they wont let ole spend 400m, we did hit top 3.

Not looking for glory? Our scout department is so bloated the last time i played fm i spent 2 hours sacking every single one of them. If FM is to be believed we have like 20 plus scouts.

OT needs refurbished? Working on that.

And i felt they read the fans. Each year they give us what we want in this forum. Mourinho, ole, rangnick, and now ETH. The board actually listened and trying to get what the fans want. Cross your heart and be honest, everytime they appoint a manager we all think that wasnt so bad. Only when things go south we blame woody.

Explain how the finances are fine.

This is from last year but shows the Glazer ownership has cost the club massive amounts of money which could have already gone into transfers/facilities/new stadium etc. Yet you think they've earned their dividend?



By the way, does the roof still leak or have they bothered fixing it?

 

[NinjaZombie]

To be honest, I don't see the problem with the fact that these protests are organised only when on field performances are at their lowest points.

That's what we all want. For the club to do well. The Glazers are tolerated only if the team is doing well.

 

[Dan_F]

To be honest, I don't see the problem with the fact that these protests are organised only when on field performances are at their lowest points.

That's what we all want. For the club to do well. The Glazers are tolerated only if the team is doing well.

Exactly. It’s not like the fans that are protesting have suddenly decided that the Glazers are shit owners because we aren’t winning. The vast majority old enough would have been completely against it from the start and have voiced that opinion consistently, without a good word to say about the owners while we were winning.

Of course that will be pushed to the forefront if the team are in such a bad state currently. I don’t really understand why anyone would expect it to be any different.

 

[Pickle85]

Grand, but the thread needed derailing to clear up that ham-fisted comparison. Some things are bigger than others.

Disagree with the first part but agree with the second. To reiterate, in case you somehow missed it the first couple of times, I wasn't comparing them in terms of significance or 'size'. Not sure how much clearer i can be here.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Don’t you also think that the spending has lacked vision? Or has lacked any commitment until/unless top four and the Glazers business model has been put into jeopardy

It’s definitely lacked vision, but that’s because we have let managers have free reign over signings without any overarching strategy. And no I don’t think champions league has anything to do with it, they have spent when it’s been logical to spend. Look I think they do deserve valid criticism when it comes to putting the right people in place within the football structure (cough Woodward) but this is something the club are clearly trying to address and like it or not it takes time.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

For the millionth time, the owners have put a structure in place that allows that money to be continually wasted. They let a banker with no football experience run the club for almost a decade. They are fully accountable for everything.

Also. feck praising them for spending the money the clubs generates itself.

I do agree on your first part and I’ve said the same myself but at some point the buck has to stop with the manager and the playing staff too. We have also tried to address some of those structural changes and it will take time to see if they have the desired impact.

The second point is moot, they are owners of a business and deserve praise when they allow the club to spent their money. There are owners far worse who wouldn’t have spent a penny and stripped us dry.

 

[MUW4Eva]

The fact that OT is still majority filled meant that the majority of the matchgoing arent in support of the protest.

Sure blame it on daytrippers and overseas fans. But do you really believe 60k fans still in the stadium are all overseas and foreign fans?

Besides. What's your demand

Glazer out? Gripe about the take over? It's done and dusted. The debt are fine. The spending is as big as ever. Our wage spent is number 1. They did their part on finance, cant honestly blaming then for taking 20m divident. Our players got paid more than that posting on instagram.

If you protest and wanted football people assigned as dof. I support that.

If you voice your discontent and decided you want poch, that's fair play.

Asking them to leave and sell just because we do badly the past 8 years? And that is part done by ole Gunnar the ex player we all adore and support all these last 2 years? The moyes that was appointed directly by our living legend alex Ferguson? And somehoe the board actually listen to football god (SAF) but when shit hits the fans we didnt put a finger on saf but point it on bad management?

Sure the result arent there but i dont blame the effort. They spent like mad even when we're on top 4, if they didnt care they wont let ole spend 400m, we did hit top 3.

Not looking for glory? Our scout department is so bloated the last time i played fm i spent 2 hours sacking every single one of them. If FM is to be believed we have like 20 plus scouts.

OT needs refurbished? Working on that.

And i felt they read the fans. Each year they give us what we want in this forum. Mourinho, ole, rangnick, and now ETH. The board actually listened and trying to get what the fans want. Cross your heart and be honest, everytime they appoint a manager we all think that wasnt so bad. Only when things go south we blame woody.

If they were to listen to the fans, then they would increase the budget for the women's team, and offer increased accessibility to Leigh Sports Village for a start.

 

[The Irish Connection]

The social context of why Man United fans are divided and not consistent on the issue is partly to do with the ‘glory hunter’ criticism, in my opinion.
Since the 90s the criticism was that half of our fan base is made up of glory hunters. In response to that, the ‘top red’ thing happened.
Man United fans, more than most, want to try to show support for the team as much as possible, be positive and hopeful, to be ‘top reds’ and not seem like entitled whingers.
ironically, the criticism now has changed to ‘oh you’re entitled whingers’ because the team aren’t doing well.

The reason why the protests haven’t been sustained and consistent up until this point is because fan groups want to try to be positive and see if changes are being made.
Last year, the Liverpool protest forced the glazers to come out and state that they would change. Fan groups then stood back and waited to see would it happen.
Now that the owners seem to be slacking on the fan share promises there has been a reaction again.

 

[JB7]

The fact that OT is still majority filled meant that the majority of the matchgoing arent in support of the protest.

Sure blame it on daytrippers and overseas fans. But do you really believe 60k fans still in the stadium are all overseas and foreign fans?

Besides. What's your demand

Glazer out? Gripe about the take over? It's done and dusted. The debt are fine. The spending is as big as ever. Our wage spent is number 1. They did their part on finance, cant honestly blaming then for taking 20m divident. Our players got paid more than that posting on instagram.

If you protest and wanted football people assigned as dof. I support that.

If you voice your discontent and decided you want poch, that's fair play.

Asking them to leave and sell just because we do badly the past 8 years? And that is part done by ole Gunnar the ex player we all adore and support all these last 2 years? The moyes that was appointed directly by our living legend alex Ferguson? And somehoe the board actually listen to football god (SAF) but when shit hits the fans we didnt put a finger on saf but point it on bad management?

Sure the result arent there but i dont blame the effort. They spent like mad even when we're on top 4, if they didnt care they wont let ole spend 400m, we did hit top 3.

Not looking for glory? Our scout department is so bloated the last time i played fm i spent 2 hours sacking every single one of them. If FM is to be believed we have like 20 plus scouts.

OT needs refurbished? Working on that.

And i felt they read the fans. Each year they give us what we want in this forum. Mourinho, ole, rangnick, and now ETH. The board actually listened and trying to get what the fans want. Cross your heart and be honest, everytime they appoint a manager we all think that wasnt so bad. Only when things go south we blame woody.

This is such a horrific take all round that I don't really know where to start with pulling it apart. Imagine supposedly following the club since at least 2006 based on your RedCafe join date as the earliest possible timeframe and having this bad of an understanding of the issues.

 

[Dan_F]

I do agree on your first part and I’ve said the same myself but at some point the buck has to stop with the manager and the playing staff too. We have also tried to address some of those structural changes and it will take time to see if they have the desired impact.

The second point is moot, they are owners of a business and deserve praise when they allow the club to spent their money. There are owners far worse who wouldn’t have spent a penny and stripped us dry.

In my opinion not a single owner would have done that to United. They’ve had their dividends and would now get billions for the sale. Strip the asset and spend nothing and you end up with what Mike Ashley had at Newcastle. Wouldn’t have made any sense.

 

[Withnail]

I do agree on your first part and I’ve said the same myself but at some point the buck has to stop with the manager and the playing staff too. We have also tried to address some of those structural changes and it will take time to see if they have the desired impact.

The second point is moot, they are owners of a business and deserve praise when they allow the club to spent their money. There are owners far worse who wouldn’t have spent a penny and stripped us dry.

Now from the Swiss table but the owners of other PL clubs don't really take dividends.



Who are these owners that wouldn't have spent a penny and stripped us dry? Do they exist in football?

 

[steffyr2]

I agree that morality comes into it, but when you do see it as an issue of morality, then it suddenly becomes an almost trivial detail in the grand scheme of things.

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be more protests, and I drifted from the club long before the Glazers, because we were whoring ourselves for profit and the ownership quagmire we are in now was always a risk with the ethos that was developing.

It's about money, they don't care as long as the money cones in. Boycott will have an effect and the matchday fans staying outside the ground instead of going in for a few weeks would be a massive story. One event every few years is easily diluted.

Funny, this, because my understanding is the complaint with the Glazers is they don't have enough money. Petro-state? Sounds great! Russian oligarch? Spectacular!
(I always thought we should go for a drug kingpin next.)

This also sounds like people who don't like a particular band, because they 'sold out' and became too popular.

 

[Sky1981]

If they were to listen to the fans, then they would increase the budget for the women's team, and offer increased accessibility to Leigh Sports Village for a start.

One at a time maybe. They are a corporate anyway. With men's football in dire straits, covid, women's football understandably the least of their worry