Question of when not if.
Pro Cycling 2018
- Thread starter RedFish
- Start date
Question of when not if.
Some nice names already (apparently) confirmed for Vuelta...
Sunweb: Kelderman
Lotto Soudal: Benoot, Lambrecht (only first half of the race)
BMC: Porte, Teuns
Lotto Jumbo: Bennett, Kruijswijk, van Poppel
Astana: López
Mitchelton-Scott: S. Yates, Caleb Ewan
Bahrain: I. Izagirre, V. Nibali(*)
Cofidis: N. Bouhanni
Quick-Step: Mas, Viviani(?)
FDJ: Pinot
BORA: P. Sagan, Buchmann
Katusha: Zakarin
Team Sky: Kwiatkowski
Movistar: Valverde, Landa, N. Quintana
EF Education: Uran
UAE: Aru
Sunweb: Kelderman
Lotto Soudal: Benoot, Lambrecht (only first half of the race)
BMC: Porte, Teuns
Lotto Jumbo: Bennett, Kruijswijk, van Poppel
Astana: López
Mitchelton-Scott: S. Yates, Caleb Ewan
Bahrain: I. Izagirre, V. Nibali(*)
Cofidis: N. Bouhanni
Quick-Step: Mas, Viviani(?)
FDJ: Pinot
BORA: P. Sagan, Buchmann
Katusha: Zakarin
Team Sky: Kwiatkowski
Movistar: Valverde, Landa, N. Quintana
EF Education: Uran
UAE: Aru
Both races will finish at same time.
For monetary reasons need Viviani/Demare double.
For monetary reasons need Viviani/Demare double.
Sagan perfectly placed....
Shit the peleton have fecked this up....
Kristoff?!! Not sure who got that.
Kristoff! Never doubted you son!
The French must be sick of hearing the British national anthem in the Champs. 
Kristoff?!! Not sure who got that.
George Hincapie predicted it yesterday!
He had just a tiny bit worse odds than Demare with bookies, don't think it was a surprise or anything...Sagan was third favourite, but far from these two.
He's a class act and a real gentleman, really nice comments.
Team Sky are dodgy as f*ck it won't be long until their house of cards falls.
Keep the salty spirits!
It's true though - US Postal 2.0 and anyone who doesn't see that is naive or refuses to admit the truth. Thomas is talented and always has been, but there's something in the water at Sky that other teams haven't discovered yet.
Was this tour a disappointment for some because of the riding(which it's been like for years now....) or simply because Froome/Thomas didn't turn into Hinault/LeMond or Contador/Lance v3?
You may get that drama next year if both stick to Sky.....which I guess they will. But I reckon Thomas goes Giro-Vuelta in 2019. Froome goes for the fifth.
You may get that drama next year if both stick to Sky.....which I guess they will. But I reckon Thomas goes Giro-Vuelta in 2019. Froome goes for the fifth.
The riding obviously, I don't really care about internal team drama. That's not the kind of drama I want to see (nor do I think we'll get it, fortunately). It has been like this for years, that's true, but now more than ever the competition comes from near identical riders to those in the Sky team, i.e. Dumoulin and Roglic. They all ride at a steady pace and lack any sort of attacking instinct. I don't necessarily mind a specific team or even rider dominating for several years, as long as there's an interesting battle at the top. This wasn't a battle, it was a procession where everyone seemed comfortable with their own position. The competition just seems to lack ambition.
Don't think they'll go with Thomas for the Giro and Vuelta next year, I'm pretty sure Bernal will already be the leader for one of the big three, or at least he should be. He has shown that he's ready and has done enough to warrant that next year imo.
Thomas won't leave Sky as he knows he wouldn't even come close if he was at another team. Porte and Landa tried the same thing but failed quite miserably.
Thomas won't leave Sky as he knows he wouldn't even come close if he was at another team. Porte and Landa tried the same thing but failed quite miserably.
The interesting thing about Sky is how they are achieving their ill-gotten victories, not necessarily the fact they’ve won them. Five Tour de France wins now in six years for them, through three different cyclists, none of which are your classic GT-styled riders. Winning a GT is monumentally difficult yet Sky achieve it nonchalantly with riders with no GT pedigree in their past. Countries with storied histories in cycling have programmes in place to develop world-class cyclists and even they miss the mark quite often but Sky, in the last 6-8 years, have a conveyor belt of talent and a ‘next man up’ policy when it comes to collecting GT victories. It’s preposterous.
Are they blood doping? Mechanical doping? Doping in the knowledge it’s undetectable so they’ve got practically nil chance of getting caught? That, for me, is the intriguing thing about Sky, not the fact they are winning.
Are they blood doping? Mechanical doping? Doping in the knowledge it’s undetectable so they’ve got practically nil chance of getting caught? That, for me, is the intriguing thing about Sky, not the fact they are winning.
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You missed the obvious policy of buying the GTs by hoovering up the best talent, team leaders in their own right, by offering them massive wages. There are a number of riders from the other WT teams that would easily win a GT if they rode with the super Doms that Sky employ. It really is that simple.
Is that the name of their PEDs?
3 Words.Sky Ocean Rescue
...so cute and cuddly, they do not do drugs and neither should you Robin.
How come these ‘super doms’, as you call them, only really amount to anything when with Sky and flop when they get too big for their boots and try challenge as the leaders of rival teams? It’s all rather convenient.
Meanwhile, Sky, littered with track-cyclists-and-time-triallists-cum-Grand-Tour-legends, win a Tour de France with a modest-pedigree operator like Thomas, who’d never had a top 10 finish in a GT before. It’s almost like we, as spectators, are expected to suspend disbelief and swallow everything Brailsford throws at us. It’s absolutely obscene.
The main reason I suspect they fail at other teams is they don't have people like themselves as domestiques. Some of them may not even be cut out for grand tours at all, as even the best domestiques are allowed an off-day; it's up to another domestique to step in. When you're the main man, that off-day ruins your GC. I suspect most of them could thrive in the shorter races though, such as Paris-Nice, Tirreno or Dauphiné. For example Richie Porte won PN twice for Sky and I believe Sergio Henao won it once as well.
I don't think it's about doping. And if it is, then surely non-Sky rider Dumoulin is at least as suspect as all of Sky together. They way he has progressed in recent years from non-climbing TT specialist to Giro winner last season and runner-up in both this season's Giro and Tour is nothing short of spectacular. Even Contador was utterly spent by the third week of the Tour when he had contested the Giro in the same year.
Thomas winning the Tour de France is just ...
He was never, ever a Grand Tour possibility. He was a talented cyclist but not a climber who would win on the big mountains for feck's sake. Sky might have gotten Cavendish a Tour win if they'd wanted to.
He was never, ever a Grand Tour possibility. He was a talented cyclist but not a climber who would win on the big mountains for feck's sake. Sky might have gotten Cavendish a Tour win if they'd wanted to
.Thomas winning the Tour de France is just ...
He was never, ever a Grand Tour possibility. He was a talented cyclist but not a climber who would win on the big mountains for feck's sake. Sky might have gotten Cavendish a Tour win if they'd wanted to
This is just ridiculous. So, you belittle his achievement as cyclist just for sake of it.
Thomas still a talented cyclist. He won at Alpe de Huez, a big mountain stage. I doubt you watch it tbh.
You didn't understand me, the fact that he did win at the Alpe de Huez is what is hilarious. I remember Thomas when he was 21 racing for Barloworld. A classics rider, good on a hilly stage and can help out a teammate climber when called upon, but never a GT guy in a million years. Sky have made a mockery of the sport.
You'd have to be new to the sport or have your whole being buried in the sand at this point not to see it.
Sorry for me not being as smart as you do.Oh you come from holyland after all milord.
What is a this GT guy for you? super climber like Quintana? or rider like Dumoulin? I remember him from Barloworld. Same as Froome. He maybe not as highly talented as Froome but he is a talented cyclist on his own. He has the same strengh as Froome.
What mockery Sky did to the sport? Salbutamol case? Jiffy bag Wiggins? Winning Tour multiple times?
Seriously, they method surely not pleasing in the eyes but it effective. Nowadays, you just cant win a Tour solely on mountain except you build healthy lead over 5mins buffer for a ITT stages. Many rider in that mould like Roglic, Tom, Froome, Thomas come around. No wonder pure climber tend to struggles
I'd probably win the Tour with Kwiatkowski and co riding up those hills for me. It's a joy to watch in some ways, like an all-star team. Choo Choo goes the Sky train.
Updated provisional start list:
Team Sunweb
.. KELDERMAN Wilco
Lotto Soudal
.. DE GENDT Thomas
.. MARCZYNSKI Tomasz
.. HANSEN Adam
.. LAMBRECHT Bjorg
.. BENOOT Tiesj
BMC Racing Team
.. CARUSO Damiano
.. VAN GARDEREN Tejay
.. TEUNS Dylan
.. PORTE Richie
Team LottoNL-Jumbo
.. KRUIJSWIJK Steven
.. VAN POPPEL Danny
.. BENNETT George
.. DE TIER Floris
.. CLEMENT Stef
Astana Pro Team
.. LOPEZ Miguel Angel
.. FRAILE Omar
.. STALNOV Nikita
.. FUGLSANG Jakob
Mitchelton-Scott
.. YATES Simon
.. CHAVES Johan Esteban
.. EWAN Caleb
.. MEZGEC Luka
Bahrain Merida Pro Cycling Team
.. IZAGIRRE Ion
.. VISCONTI Giovanni
Euskadi - Murias
Caja Rural - Seguros RGA
Cofidis, Solutions Crédits
.. MATÉ Luis Ángel
.. HERRADA José
.. BOUHANNI Nacer
Burgos-BH
.. BOL Jetse
Trek - Segafredo
.. GUERREIRO Ruben
.. NIZZOLO Giacomo
.. MOLLEMA Bauke
Quick-Step Floors
.. MAS Enric
.. DE PLUS Laurens
Groupama - FDJ
.. PINOT Thibaut
Team Dimension Data
BORA - hansgrohe
.. BUCHMANN Emanuel
.. KENNAUGH Peter
.. SAGAN Peter
.. SAGAN Juraj
AG2R La Mondiale
Team Katusha - Alpecin
.. RESTREPO Jhonatan
.. ZAKARIN Ilnur
.. CRAS Steff
Team Sky
.. DE LA CRUZ David
.. KWIATKOWSKI Michal
.. GEOGHEGAN HART Tao
Movistar Team
.. VALVERDE Alejandro
.. LANDA Mikel
.. OLIVEIRA Nelson
.. QUINTANA Nairo
Team EF Education First-Drapac p/b Cannondale
.. URAN Rigoberto
.. ROLLAND Pierre
UAE-Team Emirates
.. ARU Fabio
.. BYSTRØM Sven Erik
People would've said exactly the same about riders like Dumoulin or Roglic several years ago. It didn't just happen overnight with Thomas either, he steadily improved as an all round rider over the years. Somewhere around 2014 he started truly contesting the classics and then in 2016 he went on to win Paris-Nice. At that point it became clear that if he fully applied himself to climbing he could be a major force in this discipline. The next year he won the Tour of the Alps, which used to be the Giro del Trentino, a real climber's race. He was co-leader for Sky in the Giro and looked a strong candidate before crashing out of the race due to a parked motorcycle. This year he opened strongly with a decent Tirreno finish, winning the Dauphiné and maintaining that form in the Tour.
His credentials in a 3 week grand tour were in doubt due to the endurance required but there weren't really any questions about his ability. He proved that he could last the distance, just as Dumoulin did last year at the Giro. Both grand tour wins are characterised by a relative lack of explosive attacks by their competitors. Dumoulin had to suffer slightly more of those for his Giro win but had more TT kilometers to compensate for that. This year, Thomas barely ever had to react to any attacks so he could so what he does best, riding at a very steady tempo and finishing strongly.
When you look at his journey as a rider and how his Tour was won, it makes a lot more sense than when you just consider "OMG track racer Geraint Thomas won a Tour!!!" without context. There were no heroics or super-human performances involved, just an excellent rider getting to contest a Tour under ideal circumstances.
Oh you come from holyland after all milord.
What is a this GT guy for you? super climber like Quintana? or rider like Dumoulin? I remember him from Barloworld. Same as Froome. He maybe not as highly talented as Froome but he is a talented cyclist on his own. He has the same strengh as Froome.
What mockery Sky did to the sport? Salbutamol case? Jiffy bag Wiggins? Winning Tour multiple times?
Seriously, they method surely not pleasing in the eyes but it effective. Nowadays, you just cant win a Tour solely on mountain except you build healthy lead over 5mins buffer for a ITT stages. Many rider in that mould like Roglic, Tom, Froome, Thomas come around. No wonder pure climber tend to struggles
I never said I was smarter than anyone. You were questioning whether I watched cycling so I was just saying that I've been watching for many years. I'm British so I would have lots of reasons to support Sky if I wanted to, but I'm just not buying it. All of the major cycling forums think the same, it's way, way too good to be true. Whatever it is that they're doing, will surely come out some day.
This guy sums it up pretty succinctly:
"This is a guy who is 32 years old, who prior to this Tour never finished better then 15th in a GT, afaik never managed to have more then 1 decent mountain stage result (6th in 10th stage 2015), who out of the blue became the best rider and climber in the Tour who happens to win Sky's 5th TDF win in 6 years with 3 riders each one having a unique transformation into GC cyclist."
Thomas by winning also smashed a previous record of worst GC finish by a future Tour winner. He had finished 139/140 in his first tour, before joining Sky. Way worse than any other future winner. Coincidentally (or not) the previous record holder in that regard was Wiggins. Froome is also in the top 5.
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Exactly right. It was the opportune moment for him. I doubt he'll win another grand tour, not because he isn't capable, but because the GT he is most likely to win is the Tour, rather than the unpredictablilty and difficulty of the Giro or Vuelta in its typical forms (uncompensated for by TT Kms etc.).
Those ‘worst GC finish by a future Tour winner’ stats, featuring our three Sky heroes, were obviously due to them not having fluffy pillows or something in previous years.
On those "worst GC finish by a future Tour winner": Thomas finished 140th in 2007 when he was pretty much exclusively a track racer and he was also the youngest rider on the entire Tour that year. Him finishing that Tour at all was an achievement in itself, instead of something to be used against him. But hey, don't let that stop your stat driven narrative that completely ignores any context. He finished 140th again in 2013 by the way, having crashed in the opening stage and riding the rest of the Tour with a fractured pelvis. What you use as a stat to paint him in a bad light, I could just as easily use as evidence of his determination, in both cases.
I'm not arguing that Thomas isn't talented, on the contrary. He's an extraordinary track rider, and a very good one for races like the E3 and maybe even shorter contests like Parijs-Nice or the Dauphiné to a degree. The evolution you all speak of is definitely visible, but it's not like he ever came close in a big tour.
I'm simply saying that he, and Sky as a whole, did not achieve this in a clean way. Whatever they're using, it's better stuff or better organized than the rest of the peloton, much like the US Postal days. To think times have truly changed in pro cycling is naive imo but each to their own, I guess. Maybe I'd be sticking my head in the sand as well if I was British.
I'm simply saying that he, and Sky as a whole, did not achieve this in a clean way. Whatever they're using, it's better stuff or better organized than the rest of the peloton, much like the US Postal days. To think times have truly changed in pro cycling is naive imo but each to their own, I guess. Maybe I'd be sticking my head in the sand as well if I was British.
I'm far from a Sky fan but I just find most of these accusations baseless and lacking in context. Again, why is all the attention only going to Sky? What Dumoulin has achieved in the last few years is just as impressive or suspect, depending on where you stand. He isn't a Sky rider, so where does that leave us? Isn't it equally naive to think it's only Sky that's on something and the rest of the peloton is clean, or that Sky somehow has access to better stuff than the rest? It's far more likely that all world tour teams are operating in a moral and legal grey area and that Sky is not only better organised than other teams but also have an abundance of talent that most teams can only dream of.
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Those ‘worst GC finish by a future Tour winner’ stats, featuring our three Sky heroes, were obviously due to them not having fluffy pillows or something in previous years.
Isn't that just that some riders crash out of the tour altogether rather than being encouraged by the team setup to stay in place and keep chugging along.
Maybe they are doing something bad, maybe all the teams are.
From the outside, it just doesn't seem that it's so odd that Thomas won it. People on here have even described him as a boring rider - unexceptional in most stages. Not particularly aggressive or inspired and certainly not a risk-taker, just doing everything he needed to do to get by each day. Tactically sharp enough to chase at the right moment and grab the odd few seconds of bonus points, without overstretching himself, and no accidents, breakdowns, bad luck or panic throwing him off plan. I'm not sure that says more than he was mentally ready to make it through the Tour as a contender rather than a helper and he had a lucky year, when other riders didn't.
Prizemoney Fallout from the TdF
1. Team Sky €728,630
2. Team Sunweb €245,280
3. LottoNL-Jumbo €190,980
4. Quick-Step Floors €145,070
5. Bora-Hansgrohe : €125,900
6. Movistar €114,620
7. UAE Team Emirates €100,650
8. Bahrain-Merida €86,050
9. AG2R La Mondiale €69,800
10. Trek-Segafredo €58,850
11. Wanty-Groupe Gobert €56,600
12. BMC Racing €54,340
13. Astana €53,530
14. Groupama-FDJ €53,290
15. Direct Energie €40,850
16. Fortuneo-Samsic €36,590
17. Cofidis €25,780
18. Mitchelton-Scott €20,970
19. Katusha-Alpecin €18,070
20. Lotto-Soudal €16,750
21. Dimension Data €15,730
22. EF Education First-Drapac €14,420.
Luckily the riders have post Tour crits to top up their coffers.
1. Team Sky €728,630
2. Team Sunweb €245,280
3. LottoNL-Jumbo €190,980
4. Quick-Step Floors €145,070
5. Bora-Hansgrohe : €125,900
6. Movistar €114,620
7. UAE Team Emirates €100,650
8. Bahrain-Merida €86,050
9. AG2R La Mondiale €69,800
10. Trek-Segafredo €58,850
11. Wanty-Groupe Gobert €56,600
12. BMC Racing €54,340
13. Astana €53,530
14. Groupama-FDJ €53,290
15. Direct Energie €40,850
16. Fortuneo-Samsic €36,590
17. Cofidis €25,780
18. Mitchelton-Scott €20,970
19. Katusha-Alpecin €18,070
20. Lotto-Soudal €16,750
21. Dimension Data €15,730
22. EF Education First-Drapac €14,420.
Luckily the riders have post Tour crits to top up their coffers.