Potential Matic Replacements

[Lash]

.

completely agree and we also have Jimmy Garner who will be just as good or even better than Koopmeiners IMO. Play Garner in the same league and I believe he will out perform Koopmeiners in time.

I'm not sure Garner is quite there, but I agree with the idea he'd surpass him very quickly if he was playing in Holland.

The thing is he would get that time because he’s very comfortable dropping between the CBs exactly what Matic does.

I know he won’t get that in the very middle of the pitch but hopefully you can just how technically gifted he is with his passing.

He’s an outstanding line breaker and long ball player and I know I didn’t mention it (as it’s not really relevant to the role) but he’s great for set pieces and penalties.

I just think he’s always composed and ready to pick out runners. I think Rashford in particular would benefit from him being in the side.

I agree, but in our league as well, there's very few DMs that do that and then spray 60 yard passes, because teams are far more compact and don't leave that sort of space for those raking balls. Off topic, but its why it makes Ederson's passing all the more impressive. They usually are only to switch the play. Maybe against more aggressive teams against us that would work, but we know people won't play like that against us due to our pace up top.

I might be wrong, but watching him against us, I didn't see anything that suggests what I saw in that video would translate into our league. I think he would have stood out to most people if he had shown that.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I'm not sure Garner is quite there, but I agree with the idea he'd surpass him very quickly if he was playing in Holland.


I agree, but in our league as well, there's very few DMs that do that and then spray 60 yard passes, because teams are far more compact and don't leave that sort of space for those raking balls. Off topic, but its why it makes Ederson's passing all the more impressive. They usually are only to switch the play. Maybe against more aggressive teams against us that would work, but we know people won't play like that against us due to our pace up top.

I might be wrong, but watching him against us, I didn't see anything that suggests what I saw in that video would translate into our league. I think he would have stood out to most people if he had shown that.

It’s not only the 60 yard passes that I really like it’s also how comfortable he is as breaking lines and also assisting others. I think at the moment I can’t think of a better young line breaking DM that we could buy. I don’t know how much you’ve seen of him but he plays Pogba esque passes into the box, those slight chips into Rashford for example and does so very well.

I’d be very confident of Koopmeiners as a DM/CM and he’d also be a very handy option at CB.

I honestly think he’d be a great buy and very low risk for any PL side and won’t be at all surprised to see him move this year or next year.

 

[Adnan]

Surprised there isn't more people mentioning Laimer from Leipzig. An absolute pressing machine that never stops. Great line breaking passes and great bringing the ball up. The one big issue is that sometimes he gets pushed off the ball too easily but love his game.

Laimer is a excellent shout and another example of a player that excells in Nagelsmann's team in a similar way to how Solskjaer wants to setup once he has all the pieces of the puzzle. Very versatile player too and at 23 years old would be a great signing for the particular role and it's requirements.

 

[Lash]

It’s not only the 60 yard passes that I really like it’s also how comfortable he is as breaking lines and also assisting others. I think at the moment I can’t think of a better young line breaking DM that we could buy. I don’t know how much you’ve seen of him but he plays Pogba esque passes into the box, those slight chips into Rashford for example and does so very well.

I’d be very confident of Koopmeiners as a DM/CM and he’d also be a very handy option at CB.

I honestly think he’d be a great buy and very low risk for any PL side and won’t be at all surprised to see him move this year or next year.

I have to say I've not seen much of him outside compilations and the only real judgement I had was trying to suss him out when he played us as I had heard a lot of good things about him. I'm sure he is capable of that, but that's more my point of why I wouldn't see him as a DM. He would be the deeper CM (where pogba plays when Bruno plays) then and that's a potential case for him, I just struggle to think of any top team that has a player like him as their main defensive midfielder.

I think he would definitely need a move to a lower Southampton or Palace. Somewhere he can get a real run in a side and not be dropped quickly if he doesn't adapt super quick. As I've said before, he looks like someone who'd need improve quite a lot physically to step up as well, which could happen quite easily as I don't know him well enough, but could equally take some time.

 

[andersj]

advancing play which Zakaria is strong at.

He is exceptional at advancing with the ball at his feet. But he is not good passing the ball forward.

I think Gini Winjaldum is a good reference, but he is never the deepest midfielder in Liverpool. Klopp always have a very good passer in that position. I like Zakaria a lot, but I’m not sure he would be a suitable replacement for Matic. And I’m also not sure if he is what we need.

Yes, it would be great having someone who covers a lot of ground (and quickly) infront of our defenders. But I would also like to see a good passer there.

 

[Adnan]

He is exceptional at advancing with the ball at his feet. But he is not good passing the ball forward.

I think Gini Winjaldum is a good reference, but he is never the deepest midfielder in Liverpool. Klopp always have a very good passer in that position. I like Zakaria a lot, but I’m not sure he would be a suitable replacement for Matic. And I’m also not sure if he is what we need.

Yes, it would be great having someone who covers a lot of ground (and quickly) infront of our defenders. But I would also like to see a good passer there.

He is a good passer. Rose wants players who are adept at short passing in midfield and he's good at that. In such a high risk style a DM doesn't need to be good at long passes. It would be good to have that in ones locker but not important at all. But Zakaria's passing is good.

Who is the deep passer at Liverpool?

 

[andersj]

He is a good passer. Rose wants players who are adept at short passing in midfield and he's good at that. In such a high risk style a DM doesn't need to be good at long passes. It would be good to have that in ones locker but not important at all. But Zakaria's passing is good.

Who is the deep passer at Liverpool?

He is ok. I think both Kramer and Neuhaus are better and more progressive passers than Zakaria. Zakaria plays it safe most of the time. That is ok, but in my opinion he is not a good passer.

In midfield? Fabinho or Henderson. I think both are a lot better than Zakaria in terms of passing the ball.

 

[Adnan]

Fabinho or Henderson. I think both are a lot better than Zakaria in terms of passing the ball.

Can you back that up statistically?

 

[andersj]

Can you back that up statistically?

Not sure. But I can try a bit later.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I have to say I've not seen much of him outside compilations and the only real judgement I had was trying to suss him out when he played us as I had heard a lot of good things about him. I'm sure he is capable of that, but that's more my point of why I wouldn't see him as a DM. He would be the deeper CM (where pogba plays when Bruno plays) then and that's a potential case for him, I just struggle to think of any top team that has a player like him as their main defensive midfielder.

I think he would definitely need a move to a lower Southampton or Palace. Somewhere he can get a real run in a side and not be dropped quickly if he doesn't adapt super quick. As I've said before, he looks like someone who'd need improve quite a lot physically to step up as well, which could happen quite easily as I don't know him well enough, but could equally take some time.

With respect I’ve seen a lot of him this season. AZ are a Dutch side I’ve followed for quite some time.

I agree he’d also be a great CM option and he certainly is capable of the Pogba pass. However I think people are focussing on his passing (which is fair enough if you’ve only seen compilations) he’s defensively excellent too. His positioning and anticipation is one of the reasons he gets time on the ball to pick a pass.

Physically he’s one of the stronger members of AZ and holds his own against any opponent. I really think if you get the chance to see full games and not just the YouTube clips you’d see what I mean.

If I just thought he was a good passer I wouldn’t have even mentioned him to be honest. If you get the chance don’t take my word for it try and watch some games of his as he’ll make a far better case visually than I can through words.

He is ok. I think both Kramer and Neuhaus are better and more progressive passers than Zakaria. Zakaria plays it safe most of the time. That is ok, but in my opinion he is not a good passer.

In midfield? Fabinho or Henderson. I think both are a lot better than Zakaria in terms of passing the ball.

Zakaria can progress with the ball better well with his dribbles though so it does kind of balance out. He’s a good enough passer but it’s not a stand out of his game compared to other DMs.

I’d be inclined to agree that Fabinho and Henderson are better.

 

[Adnan]

Not sure. But I can try a bit later.

Henderson is worse passing wise and Fabinho is the same as Zakaria with the Gladbach player just shading it on average in all comps, but no significant advantage.

 

[andersj]

Henderson is worse passing wise and Fabinho is the same as Zakaria with the Gladbach player just shading it on average in all comps, but no significant advantage.

Based on what? Completion rate? That is way too simple in my opinion. Henderson is a significantly more advanced passer of the ball than Zakaria, and I am sure the stats will support that. I will get back to that.

I know that it will not matter much to you, because I know how you are when you fall in love with a player, but it might be of interest to others.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Can you back that up statistically?

https://www.whoscored.com/PlayerComparison

Just for passing:
Henderson beats all 3 for everything except Passing Success at 84.3% compared to Zakaria and Fabinho who are both on 86.7%.

Zakaria is bottom in 5/7 passing metrics compared to Henderson and Fabinho.

As expected though he is higher for successful dribbles. Which is pretty much what I said...

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Henderson is worse passing wise and Fabinho is the same as Zakaria with the Gladbach player just shading it on average in all comps, but no significant advantage.

I’m sorry but this is just not true.

You are now clearly showing an unfair bias towards Zakaria this is not an objective analysis of the statistics.

 

[Adnan]

Based on what? Completion rate? That is way too simple in my opinion. Henderson is a significantly more advanced passer of the ball than Zakaria, and I am sure the stats will support that. I will get back to that.

I know that it will not matter much to you, because I know how you are when you fall in love with a player, but it might be of interest to others.

Henderson is a player that mostly plays as a #8. You can't use him to make your point but if you want to you can compare him to Pogba and Fernandes . Stick to Fabinho who was considered by pundits to be the best DM in our league and you'll find that Zakaria is more than good enough on the ball.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Based on what? Completion rate? That is way too simple in my opinion. Henderson is a significantly more advanced passer of the ball than Zakaria, and I am sure the stats will support that. I will get back to that.

I know that it will not matter much to you, because I know how you are when you fall in love with a player, but it might be of interest to others.

The stats support your arguments. They do not support the idea of Zakaria being a better passer. He doesn’t win any passing metric outright as even on completion his % is the same as Fabinho who is operating at a higher level.

I don’t think anything you prove will convince him at this point. Despite Henderson and Fabinho working in a more competitive environment in a similar play style they are clearly the better players on this metric.

If however you wanted to look at progressive dribblers Zakaria is better.

 

[Adnan]

I’m sorry but this is just not true.

You are now clearly showing an unfair bias towards Zakaria this is not an objective analysis of the statistics.

Don't be sorry, show me how they're better at passing in comparison to a player who plays under a manager who favours short passing centrally in a deeper role.

 

[andersj]

Henderson is a player that mostly plays as a #8. You can't use him to make your point but if you want to you can compare him to Pogba and Fernandes . Stick to Fabinho who was considered by pundits to be the best DM in our league and you'll find that Zakaria is more than good enough on the ball.

Wow! You asked who played deep for Liverpool. I gave you the answer. You then answered that Zakaria was a better passer than Henderson.

Now you reply that I should not compare him to Henderson after all? But you did when you claimed Zakaria was a better passer than him, did you not?

You see that your logic is getting a bit flawed here?

 

[Lash]

With respect I’ve seen a lot of him this season. AZ are a Dutch side I’ve followed for quite some time.

I agree he’d also be a great CM option and he certainly is capable of the Pogba pass. However I think people are focussing on his passing (which is fair enough if you’ve only seen compilations) he’s defensively excellent too. His positioning and anticipation is one of the reasons he gets time on the ball to pick a pass.

Physically he’s one of the stronger members of AZ and holds his own against any opponent. I really think if you get the chance to see full games and not just the YouTube clips you’d see what I mean.

If I just thought he was a good passer I wouldn’t have even mentioned him to be honest. If you get the chance don’t take my word for it try and watch some games of his as he’ll make a far better case visually than I can through words.

Zakaria can progress with the ball better well with his dribbles though so it does kind of balance out. He’s a good enough passer but it’s not a stand out of his game compared to other DMs.

I’d be inclined to agree that Fabinho and Henderson are better.

Yeah, I might be taking too much stock of the game against us. I'll try and have a look at him in other games and we'll continue when I'm a bit more informed .

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Henderson is a player that mostly plays as a #8. You can't use him to make your point but if you want to you can compare him to Pogba and Fernandes . Stick to Fabinho who was considered by pundits to be the best DM in our league and you'll find that Zakaria is more than good enough on the ball.

I’m glad you say this.

Fabinho vs Zakaria

Assists 2:2
Key Passes 0.8:0.5
Avg Passes 57.2:38.3
Success % 86.7:86.7 (but higher number of
passes for Fabinho makes this a win for him)
Crosses 0.2:0
Long balls 3:1.5
Through balls 0:0.1

Fabinho wins every metric apart from a 0.1 difference in through balls in a more difficult league.

 

[MetoTTT]

I don't know who would be the best player for our midfield. I would like us to have a powerful scouting network and a real game plan and club development to get back to the top as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, the two do not seem to be the case.

It exasperates me that we are looking for the new Scholes, Keane, Carrick, Matic, Alonso, Pirlo etc. Instead of looking for clones of these players, you have to find players who will perform well with a clear game plan. The feeling that I have is that we put individuals on the ground hoping that it works without any real game plan.

Players must be complementary and make it work.

We had so many players who were not world class but were important to the team (JS Park, Carrick, Butt, Fletcher, Brown, O'Shea, Valencia (Fergie era) etc.
Example ... Makelele at Galacticos Real. As soon as he left, the balance fell.
So we need a good manager who could help us move in this direction.

So in my opinion the most important thing is not which players will come (reputation) but how they will register in the game project and make it perform.

 

[Devil may care]

Guimaraes I banged on about alone for a long while but we missed the boat and some club will have to deal with Mr Aulas now and he'll ask a for a very high sum. Tonali could be a possibility but according to Romano he favours a stay in Italy and Inter are pretty advanced in sealing the transfer according to the Italian journo.

Camavinga could be a possibility but it seems like Madrid have prioritized his signing according to quotes attributed to someone at Madrid. So unless they drop their interest I don't see it happening but would love to see Camavinga at United.

I khow many may disagree with me and that's fine. But for me Mejbri will become a backup option as the #8 in a years time and a midfield 3 of Camavinga(longshot), Pogba and Mejbri could be potentially outstanding but I wouldn't rule out Garner either.

Didn't Lyon miss out on the CL spots when Ligue One was stopped with the standings being final? I just wonder if that might give us an opewning, I mean I know they are going to sell Aouar this summer but with no CL money they might sell two. I fear we might be out of hope for Tonali as well mate, I just know we've scouted him and I'm hoping we might be making moves behind the scenes.

Is Camavinga taken with the Real Madrid glamour? Because we have a much better record of actually playing young platers and if he comes here he'd be alongside Pogba.

I can't really speak on Mejbri but I know you aren't alone in your belief in him, many feel like he'll have the same trajectory of Greenwood, but where would Bruno fit into that midfield?

I've seen suggestions of someone called Koopermeirs? and the lad that replaced De Jong at Ajax seems a potential option.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Don't be sorry, show me how they're better at passing in comparison to a player who plays under a manager who favours short passing centrally in a deeper role.

I’ve shown you. I’ve even been nice and pointed out a metric that Zakaria excels in progressive dribbles.

Now you show me and source evidence that Zakaria is better for that role.

I predict you won’t be able to and so will say something like “I don’t have to prove anything to you” or don’t have time.

 

[Adnan]

Wow! You asked who played deep for Liverpool. I gave you the answer. You then answered that Zakaria was a better passer than Henderson.

Now you reply that I should not compare him to Henderson after all? But you did when you claimed Zakaria was a better passer than him, did you not?

You see that your logic is getting a bit flawed here?

Come on mate give over. You're the one that first brought up Hendeson and he's mostly deployed as a #8 and has barely played as a DM. Not sure why you brought up a #8 in this argument and his pass percentage is worse than Gladbach's DM.

It was your comparison that was flawed.

 

[Adnan]

I’m glad you say this.

Fabinho vs Zakaria

Assists 2:2
Key Passes 0.8:0.5
Avg Passes 57.2:38.3
Success % 86.7:86.7 (but higher number of
passes for Fabinho makes this a win for him)
Crosses 0.2:0
Long balls 3:1.5
Through balls 0:0.1

Fabinho wins every metric apart from a 0.1 difference in through balls in a more difficult league.

This is what happens when the spreadsheet wars begin without context.

Zakaria plays for the 5th or 6th best side in Germany. Fabinho plays for the most dominant team in England which should give you the context.

 

[andersj]

Come on mate give over. You're the one that first brought up Hendeson and he's mostly deployed as a #8 and has barely played as a DM. Not sure why you brought up a #8 in this argument and his pass percentage is worse than Gladbach's DM.

It was your comparison that was flawed.

You asked me who plays deep in midfield for Liverpool? I gave you the answer.

Henderson played there for 10 PL games in a row when Fabinho was out injured. That is why I mentioned him. When I did, you decided to claim that Zakaria is a better passer. Then you claim I should not compare them. And now you are at it again comparing there passing completion (as if this is important).

Very weird behavior.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

This is what happens when the spreadsheet wars begin without context.

Zakaria plays for the 5th or 6th best side in Germany. Fabinho plays for the most dominant team in England which should give you the context.

So I give you unbiased evidence to disprove your point and you ignore it.

Your bias is clear to see and you cannot be bothered to evidence your argument.

Provide me literally any objective proof of him being a better passer or even a hint of evidence. Once you do so then we will look at context that Zakaria in an easier league in by your own admission a similar system to Liverpool is performing worse.

Your argument is unsupported by any observable metric including the eye test.

I gave you context Fabinho is performing at a higher more competitive level and is still comfortably beating Zakaria on metrics.

Give me proof to suggest otherwise.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

You asked me who plays deep in midfield for Liverpool? I gave you the answer.

Henderson played there for 10 PL games in a row when Fabinho was out injured. That is why I mentioned him. When I did, you decided to claim that Zakaria is a better passer. Then you claim I should not compare them. And now you are at it again comparing there passing completion (as if this is important).

Very weird behavior.

And now he won’t accept any objective proof of superior quality...

It appears to be a bias towards Zakaria as opposed to being open to objective criticism of the player.

Think unless an evidence based argument is presented it’s best to leave him to his bias.

 

[Adnan]

So I give you unbiased evidence to disprove your point and you ignore it.

Your bias is clear to see and you cannot be bothered to evidence your argument.

Provide me literally any objective proof of him being a better passer or even a hint of evidence. Once you do so then we will look at context that Zakaria in an easier league in by your own admission a similar system to Liverpool is performing worse.

Your argument is unsupported by any observable metric including the eye test.

I gave you context Fabinho is performing at a higher more competitive level and is still comfortably beating Zakaria on metrics.

Give me proof to suggest otherwise.

Fabinho will win alot of those by default due to playing in a far superior team that is dominant against every single team in the league apart from City. Zakaria is also not gonna make as many passes because he plays for a German team that has nothing like the control Liverpool enjoy in England so it's a moot point.

Zakaria has been used as a #8, ##6 CB, sweeper and has been deployed as a man marker by Rose to great effect. His passing is more than comparable to Fabinho too and i've given you context on your spreadsheet points which don't look beyond our league being stronger, but you forget Liverpool have the best collective in the country by far which makes it easier to control games in comparison to Gladbach.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Fabinho will win alot of those by default due to playing in a far superior team that is dominant against every single team in the league apart from City. Zakaria is also not gonna make as many passes because he plays for a German team that has nothing like the control Liverpool enjoy in England so it's a moot point.

Zakaria has been used as a #8, ##6 CB, sweeper and has been deployed as a man marker by Rose to great effect. His passing is more than comparable to Fabinho too and i've given you context on your spreadsheet points which don't look beyond our league being stronger, but you forget Liverpool have the best collective in the country by far which makes it easier to control games in comparison to Gladbach.

This is not proof.

I can easily argue doing a better job in a harder league is more difficult and negates the context issue. Fabinho does it in the PL and CL are you seriously suggesting that Zakaria could walk into Liverpool’s XI in place of Fabinho and there would be no difference?


Show me any metric where passing wise Zakaria is superior. Saying he plays for a worse team in a worse league doesn’t help because I could easily argue Koopmeiners is better than Fabinho at passing for arguments sake despite the same contexts you apply to Zakaria.

Or you could just admit Zakaria is a good player but not at the level of arguably the best DM in the premier league...

Is there any passing metric he outperforms Fabinho?

 

[Adnan]

Wow! You asked who played deep for Liverpool. I gave you the answer. You then answered that Zakaria was a better passer than Henderson.

Now you reply that I should not compare him to Henderson after all? But you did when you claimed Zakaria was a better passer than him, did you not?

You see that your logic is getting a bit flawed here?

Give over. Just provide your evidence of the 10 games he played as a filler DM it's not difficult.

It's also best you stick to Fabinho who is considered the best DM in the league because using a filler DM isn't gonna help your case here. The benchmark is Fabinho in England in the role.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Give over. Just provide your evidence of the 10 games he played as a filler DM it's not difficult.

It's also best you stick to Fabinho who is considered the best DM in the league because using a filler DM isn't gonna help your case here. The benchmark is Fabinho in England in the role.

If it’s not difficult to provide evidence why have you been unable to back up your beliefs in Zakaria being a better passer by any observable metric?

Unless of course you believe the 0.1 different in through balls per 90 to be unequivocal proof of his superiority?

Prove Zakaria is better than Fabinho. Don’t use your opinion or beliefs I used to believe in the tooth fairy doesn’t make it real.

 

[Adnan]

This is not proof.

I can easily argue doing a better job in a harder league is more difficult and negates the context issue. Fabinho does it in the PL and CL are you seriously suggesting that Zakaria could walk into Liverpool’s XI in place of Fabinho and there would be no difference?


Show me any metric where passing wise Zakaria is superior. Saying he plays for a worse team in a worse league doesn’t help because I could easily argue Koopmeiners is better than Fabinho at passing for arguments sake despite the same contexts you apply to Zakaria.

Or you could just admit Zakaria is a good player but not at the level of arguably the best DM in the premier league...

Is there any passing metric he outperforms Fabinho?

I'm saying Zakaria is someone Klopp wanted before he signed Fabinho as per German correspondent Raphael Honigstein. But Zakaria turned Liverpool down.

You could use Koopmeiners but it doesn't change the fact that AZ along with Ajax are the two best teams in a average league.

The point isn't me showing you Zakaria is superior but rather he's not worse at passing the ball playing with inferior teammates in comparison.

 

[Adnan]

If it’s not difficult to provide evidence why have you been unable to back up your beliefs in Zakaria being a better passer by any observable metric?

Unless of course you believe the 0.1 different in through balls per 90 to be unequivocal proof of his superiority?

Prove Zakaria is better than Fabinho. Don’t use your opinion or beliefs I used to believe in the tooth fairy doesn’t make it real.

I have never made those claims, stop making stuff up.

 

[seegoblu]

*grabs some popcorn to watch @Adnan and @BenitoSTARR have yet another argument*

 

[Adnan]

Didn't Lyon miss out on the CL spots when Ligue One was stopped with the standings being final? I just wonder if that might give us an opewning, I mean I know they are going to sell Aouar this summer but with no CL money they might sell two. I fear we might be out of hope for Tonali as well mate, I just know we've scouted him and I'm hoping we might be making moves behind the scenes.

Is Camavinga taken with the Real Madrid glamour? Because we have a much better record of actually playing young platers and if he comes here he'd be alongside Pogba.

I can't really speak on Mejbri but I know you aren't alone in your belief in him, many feel like he'll have the same trajectory of Greenwood, but where would Bruno fit into that midfield?

I've seen suggestions of someone called Koopermeirs? and the lad that replaced De Jong at Ajax seems a potential option.

The lad that replaced De Jong looks really good mate but he was only recently deployed at the base of midfield at Ajax swapping roles with Blind. It might be seen as too early to move for him right now.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I like him - underrated player. He's really composed in possession, press resistant and has a nice passing range. Can play at CB a bit too. He's not as quick or as physically imposing as some of the other names mentioned in this thread - think Michael Carrick, if Carrick could dribble with the ball - but does have great stamina and really gets around the pitch.

I have no idea what he'd cost - probably not very much.

Great stuff. Sounds as if he would be an ideal replacement. Bonus that he can play at the back, too.

 

[Baneofthegame]

It’s been a fabulous debate @BenitoSTARR @Adnan

 

[BenitoSTARR]

In midfield? Fabinho or Henderson. I think both are a lot better than Zakaria in terms of passing the ball.

@andersj gave you what you asked for the two deeper Liverpool midfielders. Who he believes are better passers.

Can you back that up statistically?

You asked for stats to prove it which i provided on his behalf and you have since dismissed the exact proof you asked for.

Henderson is worse passing wise and Fabinho is the same as Zakaria with the Gladbach player just shading it on average in all comps, but no significant advantage.

You the argue that Henderson is worse, Henderson is actually a better passer than both Zakaria and Fabinho apart from % which you would expect from a more creative player. Zakaria can’t be better than Henderson without also being better than Fabinho so your line of argument does not stand up. Zakaria also does not shade any metric on average in all comps. Please also not Fabinho plays in the CL a much harder competion.

I'm saying Zakaria is someone Klopp wanted before he signed Fabinho as per German correspondent Raphael Honigstein. But Zakaria turned Liverpool down.

You could use Koopmeiners but it doesn't change the fact that AZ along with Ajax are the two best teams in a average league.

The point isn't me showing you Zakaria is superior but rather he's not worse at passing playing with inferior teammates in comparison.

Speculation and transfer talk do not prove Zakaria is a better passer why can you not just provide the stats that have led you to believe he is a better passer than Fabinho?

So I could argue after Bayern no other team is world class so Zakaria isn’t being tested week in week out? Stop giving me opinions give some evidence stats wise.

I have never made those claims, stop making stuff up

The above proves you have made those claims.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

*grabs some popcorn to watch @Adnan and @BenitoSTARR have yet another argument*

It’s been a fabulous debate @BenitoSTARR @Adnan

What can I say if I see a biased unsubstantiated argument I’m happy to call it out.