[ken11]

Maybe Amorim doesn't quite know his youth players enough to know to insert them into the game to make an impact.

 

[justsomebloke]

trust the kids - it's the United way

Yeah, people say that like it actually means something. It doesn't. Depends on the kids, depends on the situation.

 

[The No.10!]

The answer isn't youth, the answer is converting the chances you do create.

 

[justsomebloke]

Not much better than what we had out on the pitch, let’s be honest. And would probably give a lot more in terms of effort.

How do you know? They've not one minute of PL experience. Yet people are convinced kids on the bench is some magic reservoir of goodness waiting to happen.

 

[Xeque_279]

On the forwards I actually agree in this case (although Rasmus last season was decent). However, you take a confident Dalot, Maguire, De Ligt, Mainoo, Ugarte, Bruno, Garnacho, Amad and Mazraoui, offer them for free and on sensible wages to the league they'd probably start for a lot of teams outside of the top 4/5. In a good tactic is Maguire worse than a Lewis Dunk or Dan Burn, is Dalot worse than Trippier, Wan Bissaka, etc. Put those players into the majority of teams not in the top 4/5 and they probably start as we have seen with Wan Bissaka, heck Elanga was deemed not good enough for us. This is clearly not a squad capable of challenging for the league and not for the top 4. However, this is not a 15th place squad neither. Saying Amorim should be getting better out of them does not equate to saying these players are all man united quality. Getting better out of these players is having the team in the top half at least.

True. This squad is definitely better than the table suggests. However a combination of demanding tactics, low confidence and bad individual form is what has resulted in where we are right now. Everyone to be blamed.

We'll be alright? As in we'll be alright we wont get relegated? As in we'll be alright in mid table mediocracy?

What has happened to our club?? We used to 'be alright' by qualifying for the CL in 3rd or 4th.

How can we be happy with the second half of that performance? We were playing a terrible Spurs team - TERRIBLE! Some of the football was so poor from both teams. Granted it was entertaining because it was so comical.

I can't believe fans are happy with anything about our once great club at the moment. It's an utter shambles.

That's the best we can hope for this season though. Nothing wrong with that. Just need to get to the summer, rest and refresh. We've said this multiple times over the last decade but here's hoping it's different this time with the new management and a coach who has a plan.

How do you know? They've not one minute of PL experience. Yet people are convinced kids on the bench is some magic reservoir of goodness waiting to happen.

Amen. Not the game or the situation to put them in, expect for Chido, think he could've gotten 10 mins more, always easier with Strikers/Attackers.

 

[Paranoid Android]

The answer isn't youth, the answer is converting the chances you do create.

"The answer is being good at football."

Cheers Geoff

 

[NewGlory]

We played poor but even worse …… I see no reason to be optimistic about the remainder of this season and next year.

Agree. Any "optimism" at this point is pure delusion

There will be new injuries, soon. Of course there will be. This is far from over. INEOS totally fecked us over by not bringing players in, during Jan transfer window

 

[Craig Ward]

I fully expected us to lose against Spurs. I'm not even shocked

I fully expected us to play awfully as well.

We are simply dreadful to watch.

Casemiro and Bruno in central midfield is probably the worst combination of a double pivot in Europe. Absolutely dreadful.

With the injuries also it's pretty grim. Our bench yesterday made for the saddest viewing. Just kids.

Even with the injuries, we lack the bare minimum. There is no fight in this team, no togetherness. No willing to put the hard yards in. No desire.

We fail at every aspect of "doing the basics" right. We make poor decisions in terms of passing the ball, picking the wrong pass, failing to track runners, being out of position, making the wrong run.

It's hard to single individuals out when collectively we just look like strangers on the pitch - no fluid passages of play - no direct running, no connections and link up play. A whinging captain who does not inspire, Dalot at wing back killing every attacking move that comes his way, one of the most decorated midfielders of his time who cannot run anymore. It's just woefully average across the board.

Painful to watch. Again

 

[Maik2022]

I think it's clear that this team won't win the prem, but apart from that i think they played well. Dorgu seems like a good transfer, Zirkzee gets better, much better chances than Tottenham and controlled them. Yes Tottenham is weak, and with Amad out it might get worse before it gets better, but what can he do with the players he has. I think the rebuilding of the team is well underway and you can't judge him this season.

 

[Banana Republic]

………This is far from over. INEOS totally fecked us over by not bringing players in, during Jan transfer window

Bringing in what players exactly?

This has been repeated over and over, but what players were out there of obvious quality that would have improved us?
Another Donny VdB, another Weghorst, Telles, Malacia, Dan James ?

We missed the boat in the sort of players we need, over the last 5 or 6 seasons.
Utd shouldn’t now just panic and just bring in any sort of mediocre player, mid season.

.

 

[Godfather]

Bringing in what players exactly?

This has been repeated over and over, but what players were out there of obvious quality that would have improved us?
Another Donny VdB, another Weghorst, Telles, Malacia, Dan James ?

We missed the boat in the sort of players we need, over the last 5 or 6 seasons.
Utd shouldn’t now just panic and just bring in any sort of mediocre player, mid season.

.

And it has been repeated over and over again that more than enough players were available on loan. Muani for one is killing it at Juventus on loan. Nothing can excuse INEOS incompetence in pretty much everything they have touched since joining

 

[mitchmouse]

Yeah, people say that like it actually means something. It doesn't. Depends on the kids, depends on the situation.

maybe you missed the 90s somehow... SAF just played them

 

[Rockets Redglare]

maybe you missed the 90s somehow... SAF just played them

No he didn’t just play them. He had a brilliant squad of experienced pros that he could put the kids in alongside to learn from.

 

[cirilus]

Obviously things are terrible, difficult to watch, no hope. I do like how now because of our manager and the way we play we are showing the reality of our squad, players cannot hide and cannot rely on stat padding as much.

This isn't just a recent reality, this has been true for a while, and only now are we acting like adults and facing it.

I look forward to how we progress.

Fully agree with this.

Time to be more cautious and take steps without much risk.

The big spending money is gone. The academy doing back up is a reality.

The organization distance to the top teams is very wide.

Might as well face reality and be pragmatic.

 

[mitchmouse]

How do you know? They've not one minute of PL experience. Yet people are convinced kids on the bench is some magic reservoir of goodness waiting to happen.

or maybe people realised it couldn't be any worse

 

[mitchmouse]

No he didn’t just play them. He had a brilliant squad of experienced pros that he could put the kids in alongside to learn from.

yes, but as you said... times are different. Either they are good enough or they aren't: there is only one way to tell and this way they'd be much less pressure on them because the team is basically shit

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Not good yet again but there was still enough chances created to have taken at least a point. For their goal Onana should be pushing that further away, De Ligt has played with him enough to realise that the chances are he won't so should be reacting quicker as well.

On the plus side, that's another game nearer to the end of the season!

 

[NewGlory]

Bringing in what players exactly?

This has been repeated over and over, but what players were out there of obvious quality that would have improved us?
Another Donny VdB, another Weghorst, Telles, Malacia, Dan James ?

We missed the boat in the sort of players we need, over the last 5 or 6 seasons.
Utd shouldn’t now just panic and just bring in any sort of mediocre player, mid season.

.

Uh-huh we should just keep getting rid of players without replacements, to the extent when we dont even have anybody for subs in games, lose every game we play and get relegated

That is what INEOS bought the club for. Sounds like you will be understanding of "poor INEOS" all the way into Championship. "I mean, what could have they done"

Get your head out of your ...., would ya? We are 15th and keep sinking

 

[PlasticRed]

Might sound strange, but the goalkeeper and defence is the most competent part of this team. Why we need 5 I will never know.

He needs to shore up the midfield and create more chances. 2 holding midfielders, 2 wingers, an AMC and 1 striker. Its not rocket science.

 

[Maticmaker]

Not good yet again but there was still enough chances created to have taken at least a point. For their goal Onana should be pushing that further away, De Ligt has played with him enough to realise that the chances are he won't so should be reacting quicker as well.

On the plus side, that's another game nearer to the end of the season!

Yes I agree; the irony is we had some good chances, you could even argue better than Spurs, but we didn't take them.
When I saw the line up I thought good we are going to press up with Hojlund and Zirkzee pushing up on the two centre backs, taking them away and allowing Garnacho to raid down the middle rather than out wide. Obviously not on the same wavelength with our manager.
I was impressed with Spence, seen him a few times recently, thought he had all the qualities Ruben is looking for in Dalot.

Overall it was two struggling (normally top six) sides yesterday, both suffering from loss of injured players, doubt if either will make it back to the top half of the table.

Think both teams might now escape a relegation battle, but it's by no means certain. Also both managers look like they will stick to their guns and carry on regardless.

 

[BorisManUtd]

Another loss feels horrible as we're on 29 points but looking at the game isolated from our league position I don't think it was bad performance. Definitely frustrating that Maddison was left all alone to score an easy goal but we had better chances in 1st half. Garnacho had to score there, he's missed too many sitters this season. Second half we created more chances but for some reason I never expected us to score. Tottenham could've gotten their 2nd as well if Tel was better in couple of situations.

We were without Martinez, Ugarte, Mainoo and Amad (+ Yoro) so 4 players missing from defence to the attacking area of the team. Not saying it's a valid excuse but given those circumstances it wasn't a bad performance. Obviously when you're in position we are atm then it doesn't mean much.

Hopefully we'll have few players back for Everton. They're in great form and we'll be up for making it even worse for United. You can't be optimistic atm and it's hard to watch or even think about United but hopefully it'll get better.

 

[gerdm07]

I thought Zirkzee looked good. Too bad he missed that header.

Maz, Zirkzee, Hojlund, Maguire, Dorgu did well.

Casemiro and Onana abysmal.

De Ligt - poor and maybe had a part to play in their goal.

Bruno - good in parts and bad in others

Garnacho - seems to have forgotten how to finish.

Dalot - frustrating offensively but works hard otherwise.

Agree except Hojlund was slightly better than his usual which is not close to playing well.

 

[GueRed]

Zirkzee the only player who gets a 7/10 for me.

The rest get 6's, 5's and a few 4's.

 

[Irrational.]

How do you know? They've not one minute of PL experience. Yet people are convinced kids on the bench is some magic reservoir of goodness waiting to happen.

It does happen. See Rashford, Macheda etc.

 

[Offside]

Might sound strange, but the goalkeeper and defence is the most competent part of this team. Why we need 5 I will never know.

He needs to shore up the midfield and create more chances. 2 holding midfielders, 2 wingers, an AMC and 1 striker. Its not rocket science.

The goalkeeper is the least competent part of this team. The main reason we’ve gone from finishing 2nd - 6th cycle to 8th and now bottom half.

 

[PlasticRed]

The goalkeeper is the least competent part of this team. The main reason we’ve gone from finishing 2nd - 6th cycle to 8th and now bottom half.

You've just watched a game with hopeless strikers, non existent CM's, inverted full backs, zero attacking threat and you think GK is our biggest problem? It is A problem, but no where near THE biggest problem.

 

[Offside]

You've just watched a game with hopeless strikers, non existent CM's, inverted full backs, zero attacking threat and you think GK is our biggest problem? It is A problem, but no where near THE biggest problem.

In my view, the hopeless strikers, non existent CM's, inverted full backs, zero attacking threat are all A problems but the goalkeeper is THE biggest problem. We had a lot of those issues in 22/23 but were constantly winning games by a single goal because we had a competent goalkeeper. We wouldn't have lost yesterday if we had a competent goalkeeper.

 

[UzbekRed]

Making the first and only substitition on the 90th minute tells me that Ruben has switched to self preservation mode and is ready to leave the club. He had zero intention to change the course of the match.

 

[JoseM4]

Zirkzee the only player who gets a 7/10 for me.

The rest get 6's, 5's and a few 4's.

- Bruno has zero position discipline. He just roams the pitch leaving Casemiro exposed.

- Our current players will stay, at most we’ll add 1-2 in the summer. Amorim needs to roll-up his sleeves and coach / improve them. I’m tired of the excuses.

 

[PlasticRed]

In my view, the hopeless strikers, non existent CM's, inverted full backs, zero attacking threat are all A problems but the goalkeeper is THE biggest problem. We had a lot of those issues in 22/23 but were constantly winning games by a single goal because we had a competent goalkeeper. We wouldn't have lost yesterday if we had a competent goalkeeper.

This conversation is like arguing whether dog poo is worse than cat poo.

 

[Hughes35]

We played well enough to get something more than a loss. That doesn't mean we played well.

I'm sure you can see the difference?

Spurs were mostly awful. I'd not be shocked to see them lose most of their remaining games this season

Of course I see a difference and I think we COULD have got something out of the game. We certainly weren't robbed of points though. Spurs were the better side a deserved 3 points in my opinion..... and it's a very poor Spurs team.

If we don't sort our shit out we are genuine relegation candidates for next season. The sooner we realise that, the sooner we can start to sort it out.

 

[GaryLifo]

Of course I see a difference and I think we COULD have got something out of the game. We certainly weren't robbed of points though. Spurs were the better side a deserved 3 points in my opinion..... and it's a very poor Spurs team.

If we don't sort our shit out we are genuine relegation candidates for next season. The sooner we realise that, the sooner we can start to sort it out.

Yep, it's pretty grim right now. Reminds me of the late 80s season when we were absolutely awful and finished 11th. That's the only season I witnessed that is close to this one.

 

[justsomebloke]

It does happen. See Rashford, Macheda etc.

What, because there have been some young players who have come in and made a difference in the past, you think that means we can at any time draw on whatever young players we have, and the same thing will happen? Simply because they too are below a certain age and experience? Come on.

 

[Dec9003]

What, because there have been some young players who have come in and made a difference in the past, you think that means we can at any time draw on whatever young players we have, and the same thing will happen? Simply because they too are below a certain age and experience? Come on.

Is this kind of thinking not completely antithetical to supporting United? Nobody thinks the kids were going to come on and play amazingly well. But if you don’t give them the opportunity then they won’t impress you. Youth, courage, success.

 

[erikcred]

It does happen. See Rashford, Macheda etc.

Macheda being the second name that came to your mind in this context is exactly the reason why that's not as great an idea as you think.

That's just gambling, hoping for a fluky goal. Nothing wrong with that, but in terms of pure gambles, I'd hope our manager has more ideas using the players already on the field before he has to call on a kid as a final Hail Mary.

Even better, if he could start games with a well thought-out set up, that'd be great. It's all well often correcting in the second half, but Amorim's pre-game choices and plans have been dire.

 

[justsomebloke]

Is this kind of thinking not completely antithetical to supporting United? Nobody thinks the kids were going to come on and play amazingly well. But if you don’t give them the opportunity then they won’t impress you. Youth, courage, success.

Well, at least it's not completely antithetical to basic logic and common sense. "Young player" doesn't tell you anything about anything except for age and experience level. In every other respect, including all the ones that matter, it doesn't tell you ANYTHING. So to think that you can have general views on what to do with such players, whether that's "play them a lot" or "don't play them", that's just bollocks.

Giggs and Beckham and Rashford succeeded when given the chance because they were good enough to play at that level. Very likely they were given the chance because our staff, having seen them practice and play, thought they were good enough to get the opportunity. The vast majority of our other youth players over the years would not have succeeded, no matter how many chances they were given. You don't just throw a bunch of youth at the board to find out if some of them will stick. In other words - there is no way around making that assessment of each single player, before deciding if and when that chance comes. Which presumably is what they are doing.

I'm as proud and happy as anyone over United's record of developing academy products and playing them in the team. But that doesn't come about by mindlessly "playing the youth" at every opportunity, regardless of who "the youth" actually are. It's like anything else, you have to get the assessment right.

 

[Dec9003]

Well, at least it's not completely antithetical to basic logic and common sense. "Young player" doesn't tell you anything about anything except for age and experience level. In every other respect, including all the ones that matter, it doesn't tell you ANYTHING. So to think that you can have general views on what to do with such players, whether that's "play them a lot" or "don't play them", that's just bollocks.

Giggs and Beckham and Rashford succeeded when given the chance because they were good enough to play at that level. Very likely they were given the chance because our staff, having seen them practice and play, thought they were good enough to get the opportunity. The vast majority of our other youth players over the years would not have succeeded, no matter how many chances they were given. You don't just throw a bunch of youth at the board to find out if some of them will stick. In other words - there is no way around making that assessment of each single player, before deciding if and when that chance comes. Which presumably is what they are doing.

I'm as proud and happy as anyone over United's record of developing academy products and playing them in the team. But that doesn't come about by mindlessly "playing the youth" at every opportunity, regardless of who "the youth" actually are. It's like anything else, you have to get the assessment right.

Do you think we got it right by playing our senior players for 90 minutes with no changes, besides bringing on a striker for 3 minutes?

 

[jem]

The answer isn't youth, the answer is converting the chances you do create.

Spot on. We weren't great against Spurs, but we did more than enough to come away with a draw, if not a win (and yes I know that's damning with faint praise given that we were playing Spurs.) Again, we were undone by a moment of doziness on defence (and possibly suspect keeping) and a chronic inability to finish chances (and to a lesser degree Garnacho's slightly worrying return to his greedy/gloryhunting ways.)

I don't get the furor about not bringing on the kids, given that we were still creating chances until the end. I know we're all desperate for another Macheda moment, but that was a unicorn moment, and when viewed with the benefit of hindsight, perhaps not the best springboard for Macheda's continued development (very subjective I know.)

 

[justsomebloke]

Do you think we got it right by playing our senior players for 90 minutes with no changes, besides bringing on a striker for 3 minutes?

Who knows? I'm in no position to judge what to expect from those players on the bench.

 

[USREDEVIL]

"The answer is being good at football."

Cheers Geoff

I think this nails it. In the summer we should look for players who are good at football. Many of the ones we have are mostly not good at football.