[prtk0811]

oh its science now, I thought it was filosophee. Are you talking about that picture where all the players were gathered around the centre of the pitch before a goal kick which someone once posted here as some sign of LVG genius?

Being CLose minded lets one nowhere .

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I said we needed improvement on those principles in posession, but the basic idea of positioning and press and creativity is the same.

While reactive counter attacking football you need to be absolutely resolute in defending and deadly on the counter which we dont have the players for even with this amount of spend.

We needed a new manager. Thankfully, we got one.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Watching the highlights again on ITV.
.it was Fellaini persistence on winning the ball back inside Madrid box that led to our goal!

Doesn't surprise me. Think he's the only one to get close to Isco whilst he was on too. Always shows passion. Love the guy.

 

[Home&Away]

Or philosphy? Maybe we dont understand football philosophy either? Of every player occupying some area on the pitch and not moving.

Don't get the point of what you are saying - if José wants us to counter attack then relying on the right position at the right time is more than 3/4 of the job.

Anyway this forum has been hell for anyone to talk about LVG & I guess it should be expected.

 

[prtk0811]

And not being allowed to shoot on goal.

Brains required to find passes and penetration , automatically you create chances and shoot on goal.

 

[Ban]

Don't get the point of what you are saying - if José wants us to counter attack then relying on the right position at the right time is more than 3/4 of the job.

Anyway this forum has been hell for anyone to talk about LVG & I guess it should be expected.

LVG expected from players to occuply certain areas on the pitch and never move out of it and that they take 2 touches of the ball before thinking about shooting.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I know we are playing the best team in the world but I fear many of the problems from last season haven't been resolved.

We still lack creatively wide, Lukaku was isolated and had no support, much like Zlatan last season. Where are these goals going to come from?

Micky has to play as a number 10 else he struggles. The problem is we can't do that in our current systems of 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 with a holding midfielder. We always seem to have at least two players not playing their natural position.

Matic was a huge positive for me. Definitely what we need in midfield. We just need some more creative spark to have any chance of the title imo.

 

[prtk0811]

We needed a new manager. Thankfully, we got one.

We need upgraded tactical ball cirulation intelligence though.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Brains required to find passes and penetration , automatically you create chances and shoot on goal.

Actually, no you don't. Not under LVG. Not unless you take a touch, anyway.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

We need upgraded tactical ball cirulation intelligence though.

I'm sorry, but this sounds like such a pretentious, meaningless load of shite to me.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

If you are not able to accept that you were defeated and throw away a medal, you shouldn't keep a medal when you win. Doesn't that sound like if you can't support us when we loose or draw, don't support us when we win? I think it does. He should've taken that medal.

He's given away winners medals before.

You're wrong.

 

[Minimalist]

Dull stuff from United in general. I'm still seeing the same problems from last season - really not buying that it's all down to the players on the pitch. All seems down to individuals to dig something out which just isn't going to cut it.

Also not convinced we should just say 'oh well Madrid are double CL winners, move on'. They weren't that bloody good tonight. I was expecting a bit more from United going forward (I expected us to concede).

Matic was good though - very impressive.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Being CLose minded lets one nowhere .

The things people have to do to understand LVG's philosophy, open my mind and understand science...if I do this I'll finally understand why we spent a whole half of games passing the ball pointlessly around without getting a shot on target?

 

[TheReligion]

I know we are playing the best team in the world but I fear many of the problems from last season haven't been resolved.

We still lack creatively wide, Lukaku was isolated and had no support, much like Zlatan last season. Where are these goals going to come from?

Micky has to play as a number 10 else he struggles. The problem is we can't do that in our current systems of 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 with a holding midfielder. We always seem to have at least two players not playing their natural position.

Matic was a huge positive for me. Definitely what we need in midfield. We just need some more creative spark to have any chance of the title imo.

So what's the answer?

Play a diamond with Mkhitaryan/Mata as the 10 as one of Rashford/Martial up front with Lukaku?

------------Rashford/Martial - Lukaku----------
---------------------------Mkhi----------------------
----------Pogba-------------------Herrera----------
------------------------Matic----------------------

 

[frank lee madeer..]

Repeating the question asked in the Martial thread...

Was Martial present during the award ceremony? Don't think he was in the dugout during the final minutes either. Can someone confirm?

I fear he's leaving.

 

[prtk0811]

I'm sorry, but this sounds like such a pretentious, meaningless load of shite to me.

Why dont you study some theoritical aspects of football then, and be somewhat open minded to understand it though.

 

[Snow]

Couldn't pay close attention but I thought the 2nd half was pretty good. Overall a decent game. Real dominated possession but being the best team in the world they didn't create that many great chances. Three best chances of the match that didn't result in a goal were Pogba's header, Lukaku's followup miss and Rashford's 1v1 chance.

Would have liked to see the match in a different country. It's not a good sign when you know beforehand that the game needs a cooldown break due to heat. The quality will suffer.

 

[Suedesi]

Why don't we just get a credit for a good 30 minutes ? Why is the reason for us playing well is the opposite team not good enough/eased off/not fit enough but when we play terrible it's because the opposite team is the best ever ?

It seems the problem is always in us. When we play bad it's because we're shite. When we play well it's because the opposite team eased off. It's never because we played well, I don't like that.

We played a very well 30 minutes and could have equalized if Rashford and Lukaku took their chances well enough.

They also embarrassed us in 60 minutes, hit the bar twice and had Ronaldo play straight from vacation.

I'm a United fan, but let's be objective

 

[prtk0811]

The things people have to do to understand LVG's philosophy, open my mind and understand science...if I do this I'll finally understand why we spent a whole half of games passing the ball pointlessly around without getting a shot on target?

Because we passed side wards and back wards under no pressure and dint penetrate in central areas as forward passeswere rare , it was mechanical.

 

[Ban]

Because we passed side wards and back wards under no pressure and dint penetrate in central areas as forward passeswere rare , it was mechanical.

How come LVG didn't teach us to pass forward? Being a football scientist and all?

 

[Home&Away]

oh its science now, I thought it was filosophee. Are you talking about that picture where all the players were gathered around the centre of the pitch before a goal kick which someone once posted here as some sign of LVG genius?

No need for the laughing faces hun. Ypu must be the like the others who said that we are playing around with the 352 because Chelsea won the title playing that formation last year.

Anyway Its not much to talk about - all you will say is LVG is shit and he plays shit football.

"If you want to understand what's happened with Barcelona in the last decade or so, you have to go back to the job he put in there. If you want to understand what Bayern Munich are now, you have to understand what he did at Bayern Munich."

Balague.

Like I don't expect anything different here; the majority of the fans in Spain called him Mr. Always negative never positive & likewise it is no different here. The majority will take quick success stories over a long term plan.

I just can't wait for the day - no matter what the fans say where just like the players of Barcelona and bayern; the players of United will speek up for LVG once the success will come.

Just anyway - no point talking about this; we have both our own ideas of football.

 

[el3mel]

They also embarrassed us in 60 minutes, hit the bar twice and had Ronaldo play straight from vacation.

I'm a United fan, but let's be objective

We gave them the credit for these 60 minutes fair and square, but when we played well in the last 30 minutes it's because they eased off or because they became tired not because we improved ? come on..

The fair judgement is to give both teams credits on the periods when they were good. Madrid was good in the first half and we improved in the second when Fellaini was introduced to the field.

Edit: I forget to say even when they were dominating the field they scored one goal from an arguable offside. At least we weren't slaughtered by 3-4 goals like Juve, Atletico or Bayern.

 

[prtk0811]

How come LVG didn't teach us to pass forward? Being a football scientist and all?

He was known to be a double edged sword. Rest others are not.

 

[fellaini's barber]

Our attack is our biggest challenge, the people we play as wingers don't know how to play on the wing, Rashford is not a very good winger, Mickhi juststands there refusing to make runs, Lingard is Lingard. I don't really know why Jose bothers attempting to play football before using Fellaini as last resort. We might as well own the hoofball and start him, we certainly play better when he's around. Our best players today was Fellaini and a guy who is supposed to be a DM was our most creative player. We've had problems last season I thought Mourinho had identified and was going to fix this window. Its not happening so far.

 

[Ban]

He was known to be a double edged sword. Rest others are not.

What? LVG was a double edged sword?

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

Why dont you study some theoritical aspects of football then, and be somewhat open minded to understand it though.

I could do that. Or, I could trust my eyes which have been watching football for over 30 years. We were appalling to watch under LVG. For me, football is supposed to be entertaining. Winning things is a bonus. Going game after game without managing to muster a single shot on target?

If I have to be open minded about theoretical aspects of football to enjoy that, then I'd rather not.

 

[Vanya]

United got played off the park for almost the entirety of the game and madrid didnt even get out of 2nd gear.


I dont think the problem lies with finishing or with the players alone. It also lies with Mourinho’s brand of conservative football. He doesnt commit enough players in attack, particularly the fullbacks who don’t get forward often enough (esp darmain) which adds to the lack of width in the system mourinho plays.


There is also a lack of support up front for lukaku. Lukaku’s movement doesn’t help either since hes largely static and waiting for the ball in the already congested middle of the pitch instead of stretching the defense with imaginative runs beyond the defensive line and through the channels. His lack of work rate in this regard is worrying.


There is little attacking understanding between the players. After 12 months of Mourinho, it doesn’t seem like the manager has been able to stamp his brand of football on the team in the attacking half of the pitch.


I know against west ham we will be a lot better but Mourinho seriously needs to bring in some coaches who can add to his great defensive organisation and game management with some good ideas for attacking football because at the moment we look like every time we play a top level team we need a physical player like fellaini to avoid the midfield and even when we do reach the final third of the pitch against a packed defense our best plan is to lob it in to the box for a tall physical player to head it in.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

So what's the answer?

Play a diamond with Mkhitaryan/Mata as the 10 as one of Rashford/Martial up front with Lukaku?

------------Rashford/Martial - Lukaku----------
---------------------------Mkhi----------------------
----------Pogba-------------------Herrera----------
------------------------Matic----------------------

solution probably isn't a formation or anything. Probably is that Mourinho just coaches us better.

 

[Home&Away]

LVG expected from players to occuply certain areas on the pitch and never move out of it and that they take 2 touches of the ball before thinking about shooting.

And? You don't see the benefit of thinking diligently before you pass? Thinking about positioning of yourself and your team mates.

It's really no point talking about it - it's clear that we both have our minds set up.

 

[fellaini's barber]

I'm sorry, but this sounds like such a pretentious, meaningless load of shite to me.

It is

 

[Ban]

And? You don't see the benefit of thinking diligently before you pass? Thinking about positioning of yourself and your team mates.

It's really no point talking about it - it's clear that we both have our minds set up.

Or how about move up and down the pitch or take shots.

Some strange points by you, but yeah lets move on.

 

[TheReligion]

solution probably isn't a formation or anything. Probably is that Mourinho just coaches us better.

What do you propose he does?

 

[Spaniel]

Thought the game was pretty much a repeat of a lot of last season. Spurned chances, an often isolated centre forward and no real passion. Was really hoping for better to.be honest. Pretty underwhelmed, things can only get better.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

After hearing he has the touch of a donkey form so many on here. Lukaku'a hold up play vs a Real defense was a big highlight for me.

Rashford must start.

Can't wait until Sunday.

 

[prtk0811]

We gave them the credit for these 60 minutes fair and square, but when we played well in the last 30 minutes it's because they eased off or because they became tired not because we improved ? come on..

The fair judgement is to give both teams credits on the periods when they were good. Madrid was good in the first half and we improved in the second when Fellaini was introduced to the field.

Edit: I forget to say even when they were dominating the field they scored one goal from an arguable offside. At least we weren't slaughtered by 3-4 goals like Juve, Atletico or Bayern.

Still think the point i made the other day vs barcelona in preseason was just a one off?

Longterm Proactive Posession total football always have an edge over others. they were better because they were inteligent and not arrogant like before.

 

[Shark]

I fully knew losing this game, even narrowly, would have posters coming out in their droves about how little we've improved from last season, as if it's a major barometer to judge that at all. Everyone, and an army of dogs knew that Madrid are two classes above us. I'm not sure who out of the Premier League would have given them a much better shot, and they weren't even at their best. I mean, if every team faced the test of facing this Madrid team before every season to measure the quality and chances going forward, we'd all give up.

 

[mamboza]

We have never dominated games against top European sides since the middle of SAF era. Excuses like we play too many games to be successful in Europe is just full of .... It's the top technical players we are not able to bring in, and how we train our players. It's been too long since we last played consistently with control and fluidity. Mou is building a solid defensive side, but we are still no where near the top attacking side we once used to be. And I just can't take it that we played the world best team and lost like that. We are the world best team at least in term of size, popularity, and wealth. Why can't we just play and perform like one.

 

[prtk0811]

What? LVG was a double edged sword?

Because he neved fixed the obvious final piece of the jigsaw.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

What do you propose he does?

coaches us to win trophies, as he has done in the past. I really don't think the answer lies in a magic bullet signing - look at the players we signed in the past, including worlds most expensive. It lies in Mourinho just coaching us better and doing a better job, no excuses or easy wins (signings dembele, playing a diamond, dropping lingard etc)

 

[prtk0811]

We have never dominated games against top European sides since the middle of SAF era. Excuses like we play too many games to be successful in Europe is just full of .... It's the top technical players we are not able to bring in, and how we train our players. It's been too long since we last played consistently with control and fluidity. Mou is building a solid defensive side, but we are still no where near the top attacking side we once used to be. And I just can't take it that we played the world best team and lost like that. We are the world best team at least in term of size, popularity, and wealth. Why can't we just play and perform like one.

We are swimming against the tide in european football in terms of tactics and philosophy.