[TheReligion]

coaches us to win trophies, as he has done in the past. I really don't think the answer lies in a magic bullet signing - look at the players we signed in the past, including worlds most expensive. It lies in Mourinho just coaching us better and doing a better job, no excuses or easy wins (signings dembele, playing a diamond, dropping lingard etc)

We he coached us to win 2 trophies last season, 3 if you include the Community Shield.

 

[Ban]

Because he neved fixed the obvious final piece of the jigsaw.

He had 2 years to fix it. Maybe we should have given him more time?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Tough game & creamed for sections of the first half but solid & steady performance for much of the second - what we lack is a game changer - an Eric Daniel Pierre would make all the difference

 

[Sarni]

BTW for people saying that they still see issues from last season present - it's largely the same group of players playing against a very strong team in their first competitive game of season. It's bound to be largely the same stuff.

We will probably get 1 more player, Lukaku and Matič will fit in better (Lindelöf will likely not address the issues we had as defence was already all right), it will get better. I think how the season will go is largely dependent on whether we get Perisič or not. By the looks of it, we do really need him badly as our threat from wide positions leaves a lot to be desired.

Nonetheless it's very hard to judge a team after a game against Real Madrid. Our weekend game against West Ham will give us a better picture of where we are.

 

[prtk0811]

He had 2 years to fix it. Maybe we should have given him more time?

I meant to say he never fixed the final piece of the jigsaw in his philosophy.

 

[Suedesi]

We gave them the credit for these 60 minutes fair and square, but when we played well in the last 30 minutes it's because they eased off or because they became tired not because we improved ? come on..

The fair judgement is to give both teams credits on the periods when they were good. Madrid was good in the first half and we improved in the second when Fellaini was introduced to the field.

Edit: I forget to say even when they were dominating the field they scored one goal from an arguable offside. At least we weren't slaughtered by 3-4 goals like Juve, Atletico or Bayern.

I'm not concerned with Juve, Atletico or Bayern. United looks a couple of levels below the elite despite spending hundreds of millions in the last 3-4 years.

 

[The Purley King]

After hearing he has the touch of a donkey form so many on here. Lukaku'a hold up play vs a Real defense was a big highlight for me.

Rashford must start.

Can't wait until Sunday.

Rashford is our best and most direct forward. He made things happen tonight.
Lukaku rashford martial
Is what we should be playing.....

 

[Josep Dowling]

So what's the answer?

Play a diamond with Mkhitaryan/Mata as the 10 as one of Rashford/Martial up front with Lukaku?

------------Rashford/Martial - Lukaku----------
---------------------------Mkhi----------------------
----------Pogba-------------------Herrera----------
------------------------Matic----------------------

I think it's a case of finding a system and getting players who fit that system rather than shoe horning players in. I think Jose should play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 depending on the opposition. 4-3-3 against the top 6 when we need to win the midfield battle. Then Micky as the number 10 against the rest.

Either way we need natural wingers with pace. Martial is our best option wide and he is a converted CF. He needs a run of games to get any form and I fear this will not happen (like last season). I can't understand how Lingard gets the nob ahead of him. We need a Bale, Sanchez type of player. Dare I say it even Perisic could give us this.

 

[prtk0811]

I'm not concerned with Juve, Atletico or Bayern. United looks a couple of levels below the elite despite spending hundreds of millions in the last 3-4 years.

Individually No, as a group yes. so its all about ball circulation.

 

[TheReligion]

BTW for people saying that they still see issues from last season present - it's largely the same group of players playing against a very strong team in their first competitive game of season. It's bound to be largely the same stuff.

We will probably get 1 more player, Lukaku and Matič will fit in better (Lindelöf will likely not address the issues we had as defence was already all right), it will get better. I think how the season will go is largely dependent on whether we get Perisič or not. By the looks of it, we do really need him badly as our threat from wide positions leaves a lot to be desired.

Nonetheless it's very hard to judge a team after a game against Real Madrid. Our weekend game against West Ham will give us a better picture of where we are.

Good balanced post

 

[fellaini's barber]

No need for the laughing faces hun. Ypu must be the like the others who said that we are playing around with the 352 because Chelsea won the title playing that formation last year.

Anyway Its not much to talk about - all you will say is LVG is shit and he plays shit football.

"If you want to understand what's happened with Barcelona in the last decade or so, you have to go back to the job he put in there. If you want to understand what Bayern Munich are now, you have to understand what he did at Bayern Munich."

Balague.

Like I don't expect anything different here; the majority of the fans in Spain called him Mr. Always negative never positive & likewise it is no different here. The majority will take quick success stories over a long term plan.

I just can't wait for the day - no matter what the fans say where just like the players of Barcelona and bayern; the players of United will speek up for LVG once the success will come.

Just anyway - no point talking about this; we have both our own ideas of football.

Nah, I did this dance with someone crazier than you back then(why can't I remember his name!), I can't do it again. Carry on with you philosophy and foundations nonesense, all the theories were debunked by people more articulate than I am. I'm just glad the club and the rest of the sane football world didn't understand the nonsense either

 

[el3mel]

I'm not concerned with Juve, Atletico or Bayern. United looks a couple of levels below the elite despite spending hundreds of millions in the last 3-4 years.

And we still lost with one goal difference only. Much, much better and more stable teams than us have been slaughtered by Madrid easily and with loads of goals. If we're that far but still losing by low margins like this that's a good sign for me.

 

[WR10]

Would have won with Bailey. Lindelof garbage defending

 

[tombombadil]

Agreed. Seemed we were approaching this more with a pre-season mentality than an actual cup game. Agree with Lukaku and Rashers playing together. Hopefully Mou feels the same.

It probably felt like a pre season game because of the heat. I feel United suffered in the heat more than Madrid who were able to acclimatise better due to training in 38 degree weather in Madrid. I feel United struggled with intensity and pace due to the heat and that hindered their counter attacking plan.

Watch the game, I still don't understand why Lingard is allow to start at United. For me, he is just someone who start from bench. I heard some people say Pogba played well, I don't really think so for his price tag. I hope Mata start in European game, I like his ability to find pocket of space and influence the game. Matic player well for his 2nd game. We really need a winger, Ed needs to get Jose's winger.

I felt Pogba was inconsistent. Showed glimpses of both good and bad football.

So what's the answer?

Play a diamond with Mkhitaryan/Mata as the 10 as one of Rashford/Martial up front with Lukaku?

------------Rashford/Martial - Lukaku----------
---------------------------Mkhi----------------------
----------Pogba-------------------Herrera----------
------------------------Matic----------------------

Will need proper fullbacks to provide width and we only have Valencia for that right now. Maybe when Shaw comes back?

 

[Dante]

I think our spine is a match for any team in Europe. Valencia is also there or thereabouts in terms of quality. It's at LB, LW and RW that there are question marks. The first two are strongly related to each other, meaning we possibly already have a solution in-house (Shaw+Martial).

There's really not a big difference between us and Real, imo.

When it was a midfield battle, we were easily a match for them. They only started to dominate possession when Marcelo and Carvajal pushed up to join the midfield and outnumber us. If we'd been stronger on the flanks, that wouldn't have happened. The small margins were made to look big because Real play a passing game that emphasised our areas of weakness. But those areas are not insurmountable at all.

 

[Eckers99]

Plenty of character but a lack of composure and finesse. It's all a bit blood and thunder.

 

[Spaniel]

I fully knew losing this game, even narrowly, would have posters coming out in their droves about how little we've improved from last season, as if it's a major barometer to judge that at all. Everyone, and an army of dogs knew that Madrid are two classes above us. I'm not sure who out of the Premier League would have given them a much better shot, and they weren't even at their best. I mean, if every team faced the test of facing this Madrid team before every season to measure the quality and chances going forward, we'd all give up.

On what other basis could we judge the team? They happened to be playing Real Madrid..end of. As you yourself pointed out, "they were two classes above us." I don't know how long this rebuilding is going to take under Jose but it seems to be going along at an alarmingly slow rate. A few wins in the Premier League won't alter the fact that we still appear to be a long way behind Europe's best.

 

[Sarni]

Unrelated to the performance but I like the idea of hosting these games at smaller venues across Europe, in the countries where football (and especially club football) is not at a level where they can expect to see big games on a regular basis. They've had them in Prague, Trondheim, Cardiff, Tbilisi and now Skopje, next year it's in Tallinn and in 2019 it could be Gdansk (on top of Baku getting either CL or EL final). It's an excellent idea.

 

[Offside]

Plenty of character but a lack of composure and finesse. It's all a bit blood and thunder.

Yeah. Really good test for the lads. Can't read too much into it. But the missed chances are haunting me and the moment. Just have to think that they hit the bar twice and it could have been worse. We showed real character to make a game of it tonight.

 

[Spaniel]

Plenty of character but a lack of composure and finesse. It's all a bit blood and thunder.

God, I wish...

 

[Sarni]

On what other basis could we judge the team? They happened to be playing Real Madrid..end of. As you yourself pointed out, "they were two classes above us." I don't know how long this rebuilding is going to take under Jose but it seems to be going along at an alarmingly slow rate. A few wins in the Premier League won't alter the fact that we still appear to be a long way behind Europe's best.

Considering we weren't even good enough to make Europe in 2014-15, then got knocked out from the easiest group ever in 2015-16, is it really an alarmingly slow rate when we just won Europa League last season and were relatively competitive against Real Madrid tonight? Did you really expect much more?

 

[MattyB1986]

We got beat 2-1 to the reining CL team in a European equivalent of the Charity shield in pre-season where most of the Prem is way behind them... In that respect we actually gave a good account of ourselves.

Too much melodramatics at times but that's football fans..

The thing I do share opinion on with the consensus is that our left hand side is non existent with attacking threat half the time and that needs to be addressed.

Overall we played well in patches and I didn't expect us to dominate when you look at the squads we're miles away in terms of world class attacking talent.

 

[tombombadil]

And we still lost with one goal difference only. Much, much better and more stable teams than us have been slaughtered by Madrid easily and with loads of goals. If we're that far but still losing by low margins like this that's a good sign for me.

Exactly. People talk like we're rubbish far below the elite, when other so called elite clubs got trashed by this same Real Madrid team. This Real team is strong and we did credibly well against them. We didn't get trashed and we even nearly equalized. There's still a lot that needs improving for sure but we're definitely not "far below the elites".

 

[Turamb]

Rashford and Fellaini did well when they came in

Rashford, Miki, Martial and Mata should all be ahead of Lingard

Don't know why Martial didn't get a chance after he tore Real apart last time

 

[Shark]

On what other basis could we judge the team? They happened to be playing Real Madrid..end of. As you yourself pointed out, "they were two classes above us." I don't know how long this rebuilding is going to take under Jose but it seems to be going along at an alarmingly slow rate. A few wins in the Premier League won't alter the fact that we still appear to be a long way behind Europe's best.

Why? because we were beaten 2-1, in what could still be regarded a pre-season face off? they weren't two classes above us tonight, but looking at the two squads on paper, I'm not sure why you wouldn't expect them to be, just as Barca were against SAF's United in two CL finals, including when we managed to knock them out with Scholes' thunder shot. It doesn't mean that we can't go on to have a fantastic season. It doesn't mean we have a squad full of average players. Most clubs look at us with envy, and here you have our own fans criticizing our vastly talented squad to the bone because of a result like this. It's quite pathetic tbh.

 

[Powderfinger]

Mourinho has built a defensively strong, physical side with some very talented young attacking players but the combined technical/tactical level of the midfield and defense is shockingly poor for one of the biggest clubs in the world. In this regard, I'm talking about passing ability, vision, and movement off the ball to receive passes. Playing against Madrid accentuates this contrast since they're so strong in these regards but its not like the issue is only there when playing them.

The biggest problem this creates is that you look totally inept if the other side has the courage to press you high up the pitch. Two things changed after the second Madrid goal - Zidane called off the dogs and they didn't press so aggressively and Mourinho put on Fellaini for Herrera, which allowed you to advance the ball quickly by bypassing midfield (he is truly excellent at winning long balls).

But unless you're going to play Fellaini from the beginning of matches, you can't expect both of those things to be true in general. Weak teams in the Premier League will still fear to press you, preferring to fall back and play for draws of course. But you're going to have a consistent problem against the stronger sides.

 

[Litch]

I've watched previously one of the best teams in our history lose to Real. Even at our best under SAF we won nothing like enough in Europe. This game tells me nothing I didn't know and expect. The best of Real is what they've had for a long time now and we are still waiting for our best to turn up consistently. We might have to be patient because this might be a couple years down the road....

 

[prtk0811]

I'm just glad the club and the rest of the sane football world didn't understand the nonsense either

They have understood it and implementing it and winning Ucl trophies and setting new records spending lesser money than we have. Wonder why United are the least successfull club in UCl in all the hostorical football clubs now and always finding it hard to dominate in europe?

 

[MrSingh2002]

In the words of Jay-Z "Do you fools watch football or skim through it?"

Well actually he said listen to music but the point remains!

Iron under my coat, feelin braver.

Tune

 

[RedStarUnited]

Modric is on a different planet to any of our giants.

Dont under estimate the teams functionality. Madrid as a team are performing at a higher level than us so their best players look even better. Stick Modric in our team and you wont see that same player.

 

[Tincanalley]

I am talking about the principles of his ball circulation, jeez, which needs just some tinkering to dominate every other team .

We had to build on it and not break it.

I think you make a decent point here, @prtk0811. LVG did try and put the foundations in place for a new philosophy; it is possibly only later on that his work will be really appreciated. But don't worry, this is the Caf, a place where some people think that sideways and backwards passes are a bad sign of a football team.

 

[prtk0811]

Mourinho has built a defensively strong, physical side with some very talented young attacking players but the combined technical/tactical level of the midfield and defense is shockingly poor for one of the biggest clubs in the world. In this regard, I'm talking about passing ability, vision, and movement off the ball to receive passes. Playing against Madrid accentuates this contrast since they're so strong in these regards but its not like the issue is only there when playing them.

The biggest problem this creates is that you look totally inept if the other side has the courage to press you high up the pitch. Two things changed after the second Madrid goal - Zidane called off the dogs and they didn't press so aggressively and Mourinho put on Fellaini for Herrera, which allowed you to advance the ball quickly by bypassing midfield (he is truly excellent at winning long balls).

But unless you're going to play Fellaini from the beginning of matches, you can't expect both of those things to be true in general. Weak teams in the Premier League will still fear to press you, preferring to fall back and play for draws of course. But you're going to have a consistent problem against the stronger sides.

Unless we put in mata who's more inteligent in circulating the ball. but its only against 2 teams we'l face some problem.

Also the combined tactical level of the attack and midfeild is poor , defense not so much.

 

[prtk0811]

I've watched previously one of the best teams in our history lose to Real. Even at our best under SAF we won nothing like enough in Europe. This game tells me nothing I didn't know and expect. The best of Real is what they've had for a long time now and we are still waiting for our best to turn up consistently. We might have to be patient because this might be a couple years down the road....

Its because you can not swim against the tide and expect to reach very far.

 

[Suedesi]

Individually No, as a group yes. so its all about ball circulation.

Football is not an individual sport.

They absolutely decimated us in the middle of the park. Kroos, Modric & Isco are on 2 steps above. Made Pogba look out of his depth.

Every attacker at RM has great dribbling and close control.

 

[Theonas]

Mourinho has built a defensively strong, physical side with some very talented young attacking players but the combined technical/tactical level of the midfield and defense is shockingly poor for one of the biggest clubs in the world. In this regard, I'm talking about passing ability, vision, and movement off the ball to receive passes. Playing against Madrid accentuates this contrast since they're so strong in these regards but its not like the issue is only there when playing them.

The biggest problem this creates is that you look totally inept if the other side has the courage to press you high up the pitch. Two things changed after the second Madrid goal - Zidane called off the dogs and they didn't press so aggressively and Mourinho put on Fellaini for Herrera, which allowed you to advance the ball quickly by bypassing midfield (he is truly excellent at winning long balls).

But unless you're going to play Fellaini from the beginning of matches, you can't expect both of those things to be true in general. Weak teams in the Premier League will still fear to press you, preferring to fall back and play for draws of course. But you're going to have a consistent problem against the stronger sides.

This is very accurate indeed. We are strong, powerful and very solid defensively and despite what many of our fans complain about, we have some top individual quality. However, our movement, ball circulation and finesse in general is behind all the other top 5 in the league, let alone the best in Europe. This will not change under Mourinho, he won titles and been successful without building teams that are particularly geared towards being able to do that. He knows that winning the league is a matter of overpowering the other 14 or 15 teams and that if his team defends well and pluck away against the other 4 or 5, it will accumulate enough points. He can't or isn't interested in coaching another approach just like most managers who become successful following a certain approach. To sum it up, this team under this manager will never be one that can play a pro active game consistently against decent sides through being good at moving, passing and playing a higher line. On the other hand, it doesn't need to be especially in the PL when you look at some of the very recent winners.

 

[Theonas]

Unless we put in mata who's more inteligent in circulating the ball. but its only against 2 teams we'l face some problem.

Also the combined tactical level of the attack and midfeild is poor , defense not so much.

I think circulating the ball more intelligently demands individual quality as well as a coaching that is geared towards it. The less you have of one, the more you need of the other. The nature of our manager means that we need much more than Mata to make up for that deficit.

 

[Rood]

may have been mentioned already but I thought it was a bit strange that we only used 2 subs - especially with Mata and Martial on the bench

 

[prtk0811]

Football is not an individual sport.

They absolutely decimated us in the middle of the park. Kroos, Modric & Isco are on 2 steps above. Made Pogba look out of his depth.

Every attacker at RM has great dribbling and close control.

Pogba was also a threat and really exposed modric kroos and casemiro's midfeild at times but the desision making was not good something which can be coached, matic was pretty good too .

Yes football is not an individual sport, But the steps are very easy to counter with the right intelligence in ball circulation.

United had attackers with great dribbling and control like mata and martial who never came on and rashford who was subbed in so late but had a decent game except his finishing.

And United started with wrong system initially in 352 which was asking for trouble , it was much better in second half.

 

[Powderfinger]

This is very accurate indeed. We are strong, powerful and very solid defensively and despite what many of our fans complain about, we have some top individual quality. However, our movement, ball circulation and finesse in general is behind all the other top 5 in the league, let alone the best in Europe. This will not change under Mourinho, he won titles and been successful without building teams that are particularly geared towards being able to do that. He knows that winning the league is a matter of overpowering the other 14 or 15 teams and that if his team defends well and pluck away against the other 4 or 5, it will accumulate enough points. He can't or isn't interested in coaching another approach just like most managers who become successful following a certain approach. To sum it up, this team under this manager will never be one that can play a pro active game consistently against decent sides through being good at moving, passing and playing a higher line. On the other hand, it doesn't need to be especially in the PL when you look at some of the very recent winners.

Good post. I agree that this could still be a successful formula in the Premier League.

 

[stepic]

Rashford had moments but overall he frustrates me. Some of his set pieces and final balls were just terrible. He's good running st places but his final ball is also woeful at times. Still way better than Lingard obv

Overall I got enough positives out of the game. Pogba can play way better. We need another attacker though